should cell phones be banned in restaurants?

as long as we're on the subject of photographs in restaurants, thought i'd throw this into the mix.

for me, it would have to be yes. problem w/new technology is it's like the wild west. no laws... yet. many people are oblivious as to how intrusive their behavior can be. smokers for one. sorry, but true.

sooo...?

How about a compromise? Set it to vibrate, and leave the table if you need to talk. I do know that some people (surgeons, parents) really do need to be reachable. But constant ringing and someone sitting chatting through a meal is distracting -- and it raises the question, why did you bother going out to dinner with the people at your table if you're talking to someone else throughout the meal.

Not sure a ban is the right idea -- or that it would even be workable. What's lacking (and unlikely to return) is a basic sense of personal space and civility (if I may use that archaic term).

Cell phones are banned from the locker room at the gym I go to, but guys still bring them in, and there's a guy with a locker about five feet from mine who insists upon talking to his girlfriend (conversation is a little like the ones that would interrupt Chevy Chase on the old SNL Weekly Update: "Yes, sure, you know I love you...and I love it when you do that" -- stuff I don't want to hear, least of all in a room of sweaty men).

David "The World's Coming to an End, so Maybe It Doesn't Matter" Hammond

I'm going to weigh in on this because it's a major pet peeve of mine. I don't mind a quick cell conversation here or there -- making arrangements, giving an address, confirming something -- I try to be understanding of all my pals and colleagues. But long, drawn out conversations with a device instead of talking to the people that you were supposed to go out and talk to -- now that's just beyond the pale. It's just RUDE. I guess my biggest issue (as was mentioned above) is the lack of civility in society. It's just not polite to ask someone to go out to lunch and then spend the entire time monitoring your phone so that you can get a call from your girlfriend where you spend the entire time arguing. I literally have to deal with this every time a coworker asks me to go to lunch. She spends the entire time with her cell phone attached to her hand or her ear, waiting for a phone call. It makes me CRAZY.

I might as well bring a book and open it up right when she starts talking. Hey...maybe that's an idea!

I'm not sure banning the cell phone from a restaurant is the answer here but perhaps we can start implementing cat calls and other social pressures in order to shame someone into ending their conversation. Any one with me????

I remember reading about 15 years ago about one of the power spots in Beverly Hills, say Morton's, banning cell phones (this was when they were still vaguely seen as exotic and used only by the ultrapowerful-- remember when there was a scare that all our CEOs would get brain cancer? Funny we don't seem to be equally worried now about all our 22-year-old girls). Anyway, the place was quickly mobbed by those very same ultrapowerful, because it was the only place where they had an excuse for not answering their phones every two seconds ("Sorry, J.B., I'd have loved to talk to you just then but Tom insisted on going to Morton's and, you know...")

If I find someone is being too obnoxious in sharing their conversation I just start really sharing it with them-- looking them right in the eye, commenting on what they say, laughing when they laugh. That reintroduces the concept of privacy real fast.

civility in society as a whole could use a huge hand. it makes me feel old to say this and i know homer complained about it well before me, but i just have a hard time w/the lack of common courtesy everywhere on so many levels.

i agree that discrete quick calls can be acceptable, but do i need to be laying on a tropical beach w/a ny lawyer arguing w/his office and harshing my mellow? true story. last wkend i was @ a concert when a woman next to me, who when she couldn't be heard by whom she was trying to scream @ over the phone, opted to text msg throughout the entire show. even after a few good natured which morphed in to sarcastic remarks, she didn't get it. i found it very intrusive and anti social. not to mention distracting and rude.

how accessible do you really need to be and what did the world do before the advent of cell phones?

earthlydesire wrote:But long, drawn out conversations with a device instead of talking to the people that you were supposed to go out and talk to -- now that's just beyond the pale. It's just RUDE.

There's a new-ish churrascaria in River North called Brazzaz. Before it opened, they blocked the windows with ads for the restaurant, including some photos.

One of the photos was of a stylishly dressed couple dining (presumably in the Brazzaz of the future) and the man had a cell phone up to his ear and was raising a finger to his dining companion, "hold on while I take this call..."

It suffices to say that this did not make me think that Brazzaz was a place I needed to try.

the other day, someone reprimanded me for speaking "into" their ear at Olive Garden. We were separated by a planter.

David Hammond wrote:Cell phones are banned from the locker room at the gym I go to, but guys still bring them in, and there's a guy with a locker about five feet from mine who insists upon talking to his girlfriend (conversation is a little like the ones that would interrupt Chevy Chase on the old SNL Weekly Update: "Yes, sure, you know I love you...and I love it when you do that" -- stuff I don't want to hear, least of all in a room of sweaty men).

Or when the guy is three feet away from you, buck naked, on the phone shouting at his secretary ....

jlawrence01 wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Cell phones are banned from the locker room at the gym I go to, but guys still bring them in, and there's a guy with a locker about five feet from mine who insists upon talking to his girlfriend (conversation is a little like the ones that would interrupt Chevy Chase on the old SNL Weekly Update: "Yes, sure, you know I love you...and I love it when you do that" -- stuff I don't want to hear, least of all in a room of sweaty men).

Or when the guy is three feet away from you, buck naked, and shouting at his secretary ....

See, I don't think secretaries should be allowed into locker rooms either.

Cynthia wrote:[...] and it raises the question, why did you bother going out to dinner with the people at your table if you're talking to someone else throughout the meal.

In Los Angeles, talking on a cell phone while dining out with others is the whole point. The phone functions for you as a conduit to real and satisfying engagement, and it is the responsibility of those unfortunate enough to share your company to be mindul of the fact that they are there simply to maintain social grace.

No hard feelings, man.

Here are the rules of engagement in Los Angeles:

A restaurant table is shared with those folks with whom you'd really rather not bother.

And, your home table is zealously protected to admit only those that truly count.

By the looks of this thread, things are vastly different in Chicago.

Now, where'd I put my "I heart Los Angeles" t-shirt?



E.M.

TonyC wrote:the other day, someone reprimanded me for speaking "into" their ear at Olive Garden. We were separated by a planter.

Olive Garden?







Antonius

my thoughts exactly. he busted himself.

TonyC wrote:the other day, someone reprimanded me for speaking "into" their ear at Olive Garden.

Sunlight glints above distant horizon, understanding dawns.

cell phone use in restaurants bugs me, but a ban? that goes too far, in my opinion. not sure if the original poster was really suggesting legislation on this or merely that restaurant owners should take it upon themselves to make such a rule.

i believe that business owners should be allowed to decide for themselves what rules best suit their clientele. i'm against the various food bans (foie gras, trans-fats), i was against the smoking ban, and i'm against any further similar legislation.

that said, restaurants that make rules against cell phone use and enforce them are more likely to get my business.

truthfully, i didn't really mean legislation. after all, haven't our civil liberties been compromised enough? least of which, i want my foie back. more a knee jerk reaction to it's ill usage.

I guess I do not go to the right restaurants, since I cannot remember a time when someone else's cell phone usage intruded unpleasantly on my experience, or maybe I am operating under LA rules. Or, as the Bride might tell me, it is just because I am often in my own world, focusing on whatever is of interest to me to the exclusion of everything else.

So I am not in favor of a ban. And even if they were banned, rude f**ks would still be what they are, just in another way.

I like the idea that I am implicitly invited to participate in their conversation and will use that if the opportunity presents itself.

I did have a similar experience at home recently though. An unnamed member of my family got a call (on a cell phone, as it happened) while we were watching a movie. Somehow this person determined that the proper way to handle the call was to stand directly in front of the TV and talk, loudly. I found this disruptive and responded by turning the TV up really, really, loud. This worked well enough, as I was glared at, and then the speaker stomped out. Sure, I got yelled at later, but my simple reply was, "I was not sure whether it was okay to interrupt your call and ask you to move, so I just turned the TV up so I could hear it even if I could not see it." I got another glare, but I got the point across.

It is okay and the best approach to be rude in equal proportion to the rudeness of others. Better than rules or regulations.

Though still bummed by my visit to Sequel last night, I must make note of one very civilized suggestion on their menu; it went something like this: "A comfortable, private chair is provided in our bar area for those who wish to use their cell phones."

I thought that was an excellent way to make a point.

Hammond

I've got an even more important new rule for bars:

If you're going to use your Blackberry or other type-chat device,
Don't sit at the bar!

Find yourself a nice stool along a wall or sit at a corner table and go to it with your thumbs. Don't take up valuable room at the bar, where others are trying to socialize and drink.

I think this problem would be greatly diminished if some people did not see the need to speak into the cell phone centimeters from their mouth as if it were a megaphone and they were doing crowd control at a Slayer concert. These people particularly enjoy riding the Metra.

KSeecs wrote:I think this problem would be greatly diminished if some people did not see the need to speak into the cell phone centimeters from their mouth as if it were a megaphone and they were doing crowd control at a Slayer concert. These people particularly enjoy riding the Metra.

Oh, god, yes. Inappropriate public cell phone usage is evil, but inappropriate public push-to-talk usage should be grounds for immediate damnation to the deepest, darkest depths of the 9th circle. Actually, I think just about ANY push-to-talk usage qualifies, but I may be a bit of a zealot on this point.

SQWAK!!!!
"Dude, where are you going tonight?"
SQWAK!!!
"mrrfffffmrmzrrmrmfmfmzrmfmmfmzffffmzfzmfffffflll"
SQWAK!!!
"Should we meet you there?"
SQWAK!!!
"mrffllfllemflllfllefeflnnnnfelelfffflllennnslslllltllllllphhhh"
SQWAK!!!
"Say that again, Dude, I couldn't hear you"
SQWAK!!!
"MRFFLLFLLEMFLLLFLLEFEFLNNNNFELELFFFFLLLENNNSLSLLLLTLLLLLLPHHHH"
SQWAK!!!
"All right, dude, we'll see you at ten!"
SQWAK!!!
"mrrrlphhhhpllllnnnlphplllll"
SQWAK!!!

I'm pretty sure this is how Hitler and Mengele stay in touch these days.

Thankfully, I have yet to observe this in a restaurant, but I have to believe it's happened. Anybody?

KSeecs wrote:I think this problem would be greatly diminished if some people did not see the need to speak into the cell phone centimeters from their mouth as if it were a megaphone and they were doing crowd control at a Slayer concert. These people particularly enjoy riding the Metra.

What most cellphone users don't understand is that cellphones, unlike our regular deskset-landline phones, are not duplex: they do not have the feedback loop that enables users of "regular" phones to hear their own voices through the earpiece. Without this feedback look, cellphone users feel they have to talk louder, which is as uninformed as it is aggravating.

KSeecs wrote:

think this problem would be greatly diminished if some people did not see the need to speak into the cell phone centimeters from their mouth as if it were a megaphone and they were doing crowd control at a Slayer concert. These people particularly enjoy riding the Metra.

One of my wife's least favorite Metra experiences was when someone on her car (presumably a psychologist or psychiatrist) answered a call from a client who was in analysis. The loud and lengthy conversation was heard throughout the car. She tried to read her book, but it was hard to block out the chatterer. If the patient were having a crisis I can see the need to speak to him/her, but how often does that happen.

This raises the question of the person on the other end of the conversation. Do they want the rest of the world to hear such personal details? Or how about the would-be business hotshot discussing details of a pending transaction?

When things get to be a problem I like Dickson's idea of meeting rudeness with rudeness. How about saying to the offender in a loud voice "please speak up -- everyone here wants the details of your conversation."

I'm sure others can think of better gambits.

David Hammond wrote:

KSeecs wrote:I think this problem would be greatly diminished if some people did not see the need to speak into the cell phone centimeters from their mouth as if it were a megaphone and they were doing crowd control at a Slayer concert. These people particularly enjoy riding the Metra.

What most cellphone users don't understand is that cellphones, unlike our regular deskset-landline phones, are not duplex: they do not have the feedback loop that enables users of "regular" phones to hear their own voices through the earpiece. Without this feedback look, cellphone users feel they have to talk louder, which is as uninformed as it is aggravating.

DH,

This has not been my experience with any of the Motorola products I've owned. I've never owned a RAZR, but within the past few years have had a V1 and currently a Q, both are duplex.

Flip

From the Society of Handheld Hushing (SHHH):

http://www.coudal.com/shhhcards.pdf

grace

David Hammond wrote:Though still bummed by my visit to Sequel last night, I must make note of one very civilized suggestion on their menu; it went something like this: "A comfortable, private chair is provided in our bar area for those who wish to use their cell phones."

I thought that was an excellent way to make a point.

Hammond

Is the chair wired to a handy, jolt-delivering electric switch?

Seriously...my parents managed to go out to dinner, albeit infrequently with five kids, without having an open phone line at their constant and immediate disposal, and we turned out juuuust fine. Doctors, parents, okay I can understand...but generally speaking, these are the folks who GET cell phone etiquette. They use the vibrate mode, and leave the table to make calls. If anyone is inconvenienced by a cell phone call in a restaurant, it should be the person receiving/making the call.

What I love is if you ever do screw up the courage to look at someone who's broadcasting a conversation into their cell phone and say, 'Hey, could you please take it outside?', they get all irate and act as if you're being rude for asking.

I'm sure that I've seen at least one restaurant that provided a cell phone booth, that is, a phone booth with a seat and no public phone. It seems like a nice solution, especially for places that used to have a public phone or that have enough space near the bathrooms.

And speaking of that, I'd really prefer it if people didn't talk on their cell phones in the bathroom, either.

There are two rudeness issues, and they are separable from each other: (1) It's rude to talk to someone on the phone insead of your dining companions, and (2) It's rude to talk so loud that those at other tables can follow your conversation.

So let's take (1) out of the equation entirely by positing a situation in which one is dining alone. And now, let's assume that (2) isn't an issue either, because the person at the table-for-one is talking in a voice no louder than anyone else's table conversation. Is there still a problem here?

My opinion is, no, there isn't--depending on the type of restaurant we're talking about. If it's a place where enough care has gone into the food and presentation that it's appropriate to reciprocate this by attending to what one is eating (instead of the phone call), talking on the phone seems rude to the restaurant, although not to the other patrons. But if it's an informal place in which to have an omelet/hot dog/julienne salad/what-have-you, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's no ruder than reading a newspaper while eating, and people do that all the time.

riddlemay wrote:There are two rudeness issues, and they are separable from each other: (1) It's rude to talk to someone on the phone insead of your dining companions, and (2) It's rude to talk so loud that those at other tables can follow your conversation.

So let's take (1) out of the equation entirely by positing a situation in which one is dining alone. And now, let's assume that (2) isn't an issue either, because the person at the table-for-one is talking in a voice no louder than anyone else's table conversation. Is there still a problem here?

Funny you should mention this, because I observed this a little earlier this year at Watershed in Atlanta. There was a woman a couple of tables over who was eating alone, but she had a headset on and was talking to somebody through her entire meal... appetizer, entree, dessert... straight through with no break. She wasn't speaking any louder than anybody else in the restaurant, so while I found it odd, it was also totally inoffensive. If I hadn't been seated facing her, I might not have noticed at all. So given those two conditions, I guess I don't see any problem with it, though as you mention that's within reason. It would be out of place in finer establishments for different reasons... or maybe even in the same restaurant during dinner hours.

I still find it weird to be jacked out of reality and into a parallel dimension like that; like people in a checkout line who buy something and pay for it without ever pausing their iPod and being able to hear what's going on. But I'm sure that's just age showing and my kids will find it totally normal to live in one world with your eyes and another with your ears, all the time. And possibly to walk around in a suit full of 72-degree fluid, and to have air freshener plugs jammed straight into your nostrils, and electrodes feeding artificial tastes to your tastebuds, so you need never have any contact with the sensations of the actual world, until you arrive at Olive Garden.