Wine Tipping

Probably a newbie question, but I didn't find the topic via search. When buying a relatively expensive bottle of wine, how to figure the tip? 18%± as usual or 18%± on everything but the wine and $X for the wine? I did 18% on dinner plus $10 for the wine last night (wine cost more than the entire dinner), but I'm having second thoughts. Seems the old guidance was the latter since serving a $300 bottle is the same effort from the server as a $30 bottle. Just curious what the norm is nowadays...

Same percentage on the wine as the food as long as the wine service is good. You should be given the proper glasses, an offer to decant, etc.

I'll tip a flat amount on the bottle, regardless of cost, equal to the value I peceive for the wine service. If the server brings out lousy, spotted stems, holds the bottle sideways while carrying it, and tries to pour it as quickly as possible in an effort to get me to buy another bottle...they will receive ZERO on the wine part of the bill. If they bring out decent, clean stems, show at least some knowledge of how to carry and open the bottle, and ask whether I want more wine in my glass before pouring, they will receive $10-$15. And if they provide quality stems that match the wine I ordered, carefully open and decant the wine, make sure the wine is the proper temperature (which oftentimes means providing an ice bucket for red wines), and ask in advance whether I would prefer to pour the wine myself...they will receive AT LEAST $25.

I will note that my biggest tips on wine have occurred at restaurants which also offer corkage...no doubt because they are more wine-friendly.

Midpack wrote:Probably a newbie question, but I didn't find the topic via search. When buying a relatively expensive bottle of wine, how to figure the tip? 18%± as usual or 18%± on everything but the wine and $X for the wine? I did 18% on dinner plus $10 for the wine last night (wine cost more than the entire dinner), but I'm having second thoughts. Seems the old guidance was the latter since serving a $300 bottle is the same effort from the server as a $30 bottle. Just curious what the norm is nowadays...

Like food wine should be tipped at 15-20% depending on service. Isn't it the same effort to serve a foie gras terrine as it is a plain green salad? Like it or not, that's the US tipping custom.

why is holding the bottle upright while carrying it more proper? aesthetics?

I tip 20-25% on the entire bill. There is the fact that I can probably count on one hand the number of times I personally have paid $100 or more for a bottle of wine in a restaurant. I still would be hard put to give anyone less than a 20% tip though.

I feel as if the trend has been more towards tipping 20% or higher on the wine in recent years. About 5 years ago, we were thanked by a waiter for tipping 20% or so on a meal that included a couple of nice bottles of champagne; he acted like it was really unusual. I don't think it is now.

food gets 20-25%, wine over $150 gets about 20-30 per bottle depending on quality of wine service, stemware, etc.

I think carrying here refers to the entire presentation- you want the bottle to end up upright especially for tasting as the sediment should settle on an older bottle,plus it needs to be upright for the orderer to review the wine to make sure its the same bottle as ordered.

Louisa Chu wrote:
Like food wine should be tipped at 15-20% depending on service. Isn't it the same effort to serve a foie gras terrine as it is a plain green salad? Like it or not, that's the US tipping custom.

I haven't worked in food service for many a year. But, I can't but feel that this isn't quite the same. The effort to bring our a foie gras terrine vs a plain green salad isn't quite comparable based on my experience. At a diner, I just about ran to bring out salads, threw them down (well, not quite), and carried five other things along with that salad and didn't bother to ask how anyone was doing because they might ask me for something I didn't have time to get them. That's because I had ten tables at the same time.

The terrine? I carried it by itself, didn't look hurried, and took time to serve it to the customer, to inquire about other needs, the present the food to its best advantage, to possible upsell something or solve a problem, etc. I only would have had 3-5 tables (depending on the location, time of day, etc.) so I could focus on my customers and ensure their experience was appropriate and all their needs were met.

So, though the item is just one item, there is more involved (to me) in one than the other, therefore 18 percent in both cases is justified.

Now, if I am truly doing more when I deliver the wine bottle (or glass) with a more expensive bottle, then I deserve the same percentage - no question that delivering a $15 bottle probably doesn't include the same attention to the experience as delivering a $100 bottle (mostly because the type of place serving each is likely to be different). But if we compare serving a $100 bottle in a higher-end restaurant to serving a $500 bottle, the service should be identical. I should have matching, clean stems, present the bottle correctly, etc. Then, as the server, why should I get more? I really did do the same amount of effort.

The only thought in favor is that the more pricey the establishment, the more people with whom the server is required to share the pot, so to speak. It used to be the bus person. Then, one day I was giving the the bartender. . .then the barback, then the expediter, then the host... My mom still works at a country club. I can't remember what she told me a few months ago when I asked, but she is required to pass out a large percentage of her tips - like to the tune of 35-40% if I remember correctly. So, in that case, the money would be justified as a lot more people are involved in service like that.

Of course, these are must musing at midnight. . .not sure what I think the right answer is. I'll be interested in what other people say.

If you are willing to spend $100 to $500 for a bottle of wine then you should be prepared to tip accordingly.... if not, you are cheap!


FWIW, I would not spend over $100 (mostly because of the mark up) I tend to BYOB and pay corkage and then tip well.

mhill95149 wrote:If you are willing to spend $100 to $500 for a bottle of wine then you should be prepared to tip accordingly.... if not, you are cheap!

At a certain point tipping accordingly isn't tipping 20%, it's tipping a flat rate per bottle. I think asking for a $100 tip on a $500 bottle is greedy, personally.

jpschust wrote:

mhill95149 wrote:If you are willing to spend $100 to $500 for a bottle of wine then you should be prepared to tip accordingly.... if not, you are cheap!

At a certain point tipping accordingly isn't tipping 20%, it's tipping a flat rate per bottle. I think asking for a $100 tip on a $500 bottle is greedy, personally.

I figure that if you can drop $500 on a bottle of wine you can afford to tip
My point is about you the buyer, not the server and the rest of the staff that lives on tips.

If I felt that a server was as you say "asking for a $100 tip on a $500 bottle"
I might act differently but I don't think this discussion is about that but more about what you the consumer would do....

All and all, a moot point for me as I'm closer to the "working for tips"
side of the equation....
I do find that in the restaurants I frequent, the price point I find the lowest mark up tends to be bottles that retail for 40 to 60 and are on the list for 70 to 90 I can order these and tip around 20% without it being a life changing event.... YMMV
l

At every place I worked as a server we had a required tip out. In most cases it varied anywhere between 3% and 6% of the total bill including all food, wine, and taxes.

So, If you purchase a $500 (which s a few of the places I worked offered) bottle of wine, and left $20 in tip for wine service I could possibly have ended up paying $10 for you to enjoy that bottle. I always tip on the total bill. Proper wine service is just another part of dining out.

Additionally, if items are removed from the bill, the server was still responsible for the tip-out amount associated to the pre-reduced bill.

Flip

Flip wrote:So, If you purchase a $500 (which s a few of the places I worked offered) bottle of wine, and left $20 in tip for wine service I could possibly have ended up paying $10 for you to enjoy that bottle.

Is that made clear to the average consumer? How is the costomer supposed to know the many tip-splitting policies of various restaurants?

Just as a note here, I read a lot of boards, and I'm clearly in one of the camps, but here's generally how every argument about this breaks down:

1. You tip ~20% on the entire bill, wine, alcohol, etc- it's all part of the meal, it makes life easier.

2. You tip ~20% on bottles up to a certain price point and then move to a flat rate based on the price of the bottle, generally only used on super high end bottles, the reason being that high end bottles often end up more than the price of food itself.

I'm skipping any discussion of corkage fees here.

nr706 wrote:

Flip wrote:So, If you purchase a $500 (which s a few of the places I worked offered) bottle of wine, and left $20 in tip for wine service I could possibly have ended up paying $10 for you to enjoy that bottle.

Is that made clear to the average consumer? How is the costomer supposed to know the many tip-splitting policies of various restaurants?

I'd just assume that at least 20-30% of tips a server receives is given out to hosts, bar staff, busboys, and foodrunners. This is done either by mandatory tipshare, or via an honor system.

Flip

So, If you purchase a $500 (which s a few of the places I worked offered) bottle of wine, and left $20 in tip for wine service I could possibly have ended up paying $10 for you to enjoy that bottle.

Is that made clear to the average consumer? How is the costomer supposed to know the many tip-splitting policies of various restaurants?

Exactly. That's like expecting me to know what the co-pay in the Lettuce health plan is before I order. When you come down to it, you know, I'm there to enjoy myself and pay appropriately without too much thinking involved on my end, not to painstakingly ensure social justice at every juncture in the hospitality industry. If your policies result in something that messed up, your policies are the problem-- and they're your problem, not mine.

That said, I'd feel funny not tipping 20%ish on everything and anything. At the same time, I'd feel stupid tipping $1800 on the $9000 bottles of Bordeaux I saw on the list at Ducasse when I went there. ("You know, you did such a great job pouring liquids a couple of times, I'd like to buy you a used car.") So basically by failing to resolve all this in a way that makes sense in any rational way, the industry discourages the purchase of expensive wine....

Mike G wrote: If your policies result in something that messed up, your policies are the problem-- and they're your problem, not mine.

....

Hence why I don't believe I will ever wait on a table in a restaurant again.

jpschust wrote:2. You tip ~20% on bottles up to a certain price point and then move to a flat rate based on the price of the bottle, generally only used on super high end bottles, the reason being that high end bottles often end up more than the price of food itself.

OK, the actual situation. Dinner for two at about $160 (apps, entree, dessert, etc.) with a bottle of wine that cost $230 (Shafer Cab Sauv). We got ordinary all purpose red wine glasses (more like a Pinot style) and a typical presentation. I tipped 18% on the meal and $20 for the wine - I am still having second thoughts now that I've read these posts. (WRT 18%, the service was quite good but I had 3 pin bones in my salmon...) What would you recommend as a tip on the wine? Several of you have acknowledged there is a point over which you would go to a flat rate, but I missed at what point... And BTW, thanks for your feedback, it's been enlightening.

My rule is that if the wine costs more than twice the food, then I tip 10% on the wine (and any other liquor on the tab ordered at the table (I tip bartenders 20% on top of tax, always) and 20% on the food, then round up to the nearest ten bucks. Otherwise, 20% on the whole tab, wine included. Friday, Mrs. JiLS and I had dinner at Sabatino's and enjoyed a bottle of Gaja Barbaresco at $289. Our food cost about $50. I tipped $50. A straight 20% would've been about $67. By the way, at Sabatino's when you order a bottle over a certain cost, Eddie serves it himself; your server doesn't touch the bottle unless you ask her to pour. So, I actually was giving a tip to my waitress that she completely did NOT earn, unless Eddie makes his waitresses split tips with him (I would guess but do not know that Eddie has an interest in the business at Sabatino's, so if I am right I assume he does not split tips and the lack of tip income doesn't mean much to him).

Midpack wrote:

jpschust wrote:2. You tip ~20% on bottles up to a certain price point and then move to a flat rate based on the price of the bottle, generally only used on super high end bottles, the reason being that high end bottles often end up more than the price of food itself.

OK, the actual situation. Dinner for two at about $160 (apps, entree, dessert, etc.) with a bottle of wine that cost $230 (Shafer Cab Sauv). We got ordinary all purpose red wine glasses (more like a Pinot style) and a typical presentation. I tipped 18% on the meal and $20 for the wine - I am still having second thoughts now that I've read these posts. (WRT 18%, the service was quite good but I had 3 pin bones in my salmon...) What would you recommend as a tip on the wine? Several of you have acknowledged there is a point over which you would go to a flat rate, but I missed at what point... And BTW, thanks for your feedback, it's been enlightening.

It's not a hard and fast rule on the point for me at which I stop tipping 20% on the wine. On a bottle of wine that's about 230- 30 bucks probably- so just a touch over where you were, but not much. It's not quite 20%, it's not quite 10%. The way I kind of calculate the flat rate at times is to look at corkage and add a little bit to whatever that dollar amount is- without taking actual corkage into account, if the corkage is 25 bucks, I'll usually give about 30 a bottle for bottles over a certain price point. I don't think you were too far off in your tip- no need to feel cheap.

Midpack wrote:

jpschust wrote:2. You tip ~20% on bottles up to a certain price point and then move to a flat rate based on the price of the bottle, generally only used on super high end bottles, the reason being that high end bottles often end up more than the price of food itself.

OK, the actual situation. Dinner for two at about $160 (apps, entree, dessert, etc.) with a bottle of wine that cost $230 (Shafer Cab Sauv). We got ordinary all purpose red wine glasses (more like a Pinot style) and a typical presentation. I tipped 18% on the meal and $20 for the wine - I am still having second thoughts now that I've read these posts. (WRT 18%, the service was quite good but I had 3 pin bones in my salmon...) What would you recommend as a tip on the wine? Several of you have acknowledged there is a point over which you would go to a flat rate, but I missed at what point... And BTW, thanks for your feedback, it's been enlightening.

Midpack,

Not to sound like I'm on a soapbox, but would you have tipped better on the dinner if you didn't have the 3 pin bones in your salmon? If so, why? The server in most restaurants is not the prep cook. Why should they be punished? If you wouldn't have tipped differently, why mention them?

Flip

P.S. - The wife-to-be to be is sort of trying to get me back into the business, and these issues are among the first ones I think of. Even though I wouldn't dare go back to waiting on tables again.

Not to sound like I'm on a soapbox, but would you have tipped better on the dinner if you didn't have the 3 pin bones in your salmon? If so, why? The server in most restaurants is not the prep cook. Why should they be punished?

Which is simply another way in which the whole system is so weird-- I am expected to pay the salary and directly incent the guy who carries food* but not the guy who makes it, when that, first and foremost, is what I'm there for.

Not that I expect to be able to change any of that-- just observing that looking for logic in any aspect of the system is probably misguided.

* Admittedly good waiters do more than that, of course. And bad ones barely manage that tolerably...

Mike G wrote:

Not to sound like I'm on a soapbox, but would you have tipped better on the dinner if you didn't have the 3 pin bones in your salmon? If so, why? The server in most restaurants is not the prep cook. Why should they be punished?

Which is simply another way in which the whole system is so weird-- I am expected to pay the salary and directly incent the guy who carries food* but not the guy who makes it, when that, first and foremost, is what I'm there for.

Not that I expect to be able to change any of that-- just observing that looking for logic in any aspect of the system is probably misguided.

* Admittedly good waiters do more than that, of course. And bad ones barely manage that tolerably...

Mike,

I guess I would just say that the server is just part of the experience of dining out? Would you tip the same for carryout as you would for a sit down experience? I wouldn't.

As crazy as the system is the kitchen staff is generally held in higher regard than service staff by the management. The logic being that it takes longer / is more expensive to train a good cook. It is not uncommon knowledge that the waitstaff in most restaurants don't receive a paycheck, their wages generally don't even cover the taxes.

Flip

It is not uncommon knowledge that the waitstaff in most restaurants don't receive a paycheck, their wages generally don't even cover the taxes.

Which is partly my point-- NOTHING else in our society really works this way, even other parts of the same business.

Flip wrote:Midpack,

Not to sound like I'm on a soapbox, but would you have tipped better on the dinner if you didn't have the 3 pin bones in your salmon? If so, why? The server in most restaurants is not the prep cook. Why should they be punished? If you wouldn't have tipped differently, why mention them?

Flip

Fair question. While I realize the wait staff wasn't responsible for the pin bones, they are my only line of communication unless I speak to the M'd or the Manager-not warranted in this case IMHO. But I assume the waiter will indeed make the back of the house or others aware as a result of the below average tip. And if the waiter is getting tips below par often enough he/she will go elsewhere to work. Indirect, but effective, and none of us invented this system to begin with.

FWIW, I was a waiter in a moderately high end restaurant during my college years (enjoyed it immensely BTW) and I readily accepted this was how things worked and I did indeed follow up with the back of the house on behalf of my diners. As to why I'd mention it, I did not make a scene but I would certainly want to know if it was my restaurant. The waiter was more upset about it than I was to be sure. And finally, while 18% is not top dollar, it's not exactly being punished either.

And re: waitstaff pay at least in my day. Net of expenses, I paid the restaurant to work there. I tipped the bar staff the norm then but I kept up with what other waiters tipped their busboys and made sure I tipped my busboys better than any other waiter. They can make/break the experience so the best ones always fought to work my tables - so I always came out way ahead of my seemingly short-sighted peers. If I was in the weeds for whatever reason, the busboys would sense it and tread water for "our team" and I would do the same for them when they were overwhelmed. And I still made more working there than I made for several years just out of college in a technical field. I will probably always notice busboys (my wife goes through water like mad) and tip the great ones directly in cash $5 or $10, they are often surprised but very appreciative. IMO a great busboy is very attentive without being intrusive or appearing to hover - some are almost invisible (things appear out of nowhere).

Mike G wrote:Which is simply another way in which the whole system is so weird-- I am expected to pay the salary and directly incent the guy who carries food* but not the guy who makes it...

I would think that the cost of the meal itself goes to the guy who prepares the food and always gets paid the same.

The tip is the only variable. Overcook the steak and the cook still gets paid (as long as they don't get fired), but the waiter could suffer. It gets back to the point that a good waiter will give feedback if things aren't going well and really take care of the patrons - not just carry the food.
In most cases, its the waiter who will sense a bad meal in the works and get things fixed (or not). Plus, happy patrons spend more, and that keeps the business running.

On that topic, I read an interesting article (Jeffery Steingarten?) that most people tip the same regardless of service - good tippers almost always tip well, poor tippers hardly ever tip well. For a good tipper, 15% may be a bad tip, but its all you'll ever get from a bad tipper.

So more than good service, what a waiter really needs to do is drive up the bill - sell the bottled water, bottles of wine, appetizers, dessert, etc. The point was made that good service is important, keeping people happy is important, but big checks pay the bills. This was the point of the article, and it sounds logical to me.

And then there is Schwa. What do they care. No waiters. No one answers the phone. No wine. No wine glasses. No AMEX. No weekend service. Good luck getting a reservation. But what a great meal, although a couple of good waiters would have helped.

Fair question. While I realize the wait staff wasn't responsible for the pin bones, they are my only line of communication unless I speak to the M'd or the Manager-not warranted in this case IMHO. But I assume the waiter will indeed make the back of the house or others aware as a result of the below average tip.

I disagree that most servers will tell the BOH about their lousy tips. Certainly they will complain to their fellow servers, but they will probably either think 1. They did something to deserve the decrease in tip; or, 2. The person is a lousy tipper (more likely, the latter). A more direct way of communicating that you were disappointed to find pin bones in your fish is just to tell the server (without seeming like you need a manager or a free meal) and they'll communicate it to the BOH.

BTW - I'm notoriously a good/over tipper and would tip 18-20% or more on the wine and food. But, I've also never purchased a $500+ bottle of wine. And, when I had scotch drinkers who ordered a $30 shot, I expected more than $1, but not necessarily $6.

I asked my friend who works at two restaurants in Chicago that have high-end wine on their menu (and has worked at several others), and she has this to say:

She usually ends up tipping out between 40 and 50 percent of her own tips. She tips her busboy, her food-runner, the bartender, and the host/hostess. Her tip outs are a set percentage of her overall ring, including liquor and wine sales, not a percentage of the actual tips that she received, and they are not optional. The restaurant assumes she receives an average 18% tip overall and calculates the tip-outs accordingly. For example, if someone buys a $300 bottle of wine and they only tip her $10 on it (which happens), she still has to tip out as if she'd received the full 18 percent.

Personally I feel that if you are comfortable enough financially to buy a really expensive bottle of wine, you should take the tip into account. Unfortunately, this has never been a problem I've faced....

geli wrote:I asked my friend who works at two restaurants in Chicago that have high-end wine on their menu (and has worked at several others), and she has this to say:

She usually ends up tipping out between 40 and 50 percent of her own tips. She tips her busboy, her food-runner, the bartender, and the host/hostess. Her tip outs are a set percentage of her overall ring, including liquor and wine sales, not a percentage of the actual tips that she received, and they are not optional. The restaurant assumes she receives an average 18% tip overall and calculates the tip-outs accordingly. For example, if someone buys a $300 bottle of wine and they only tip her $10 on it (which happens), she still has to tip out as if she'd received the full 18 percent.

Personally I feel that if you are comfortable enough financially to buy a really expensive bottle of wine, you should take the tip into account. Unfortunately, this has never been a problem I've faced....

Tip outs are not mandated by anyone- it's illegal in most states to force a server to share tips. So if that's her choice then that's her choice.