Why do foodies forget/neglect service?

Now I don’t want to go off on a rant here…

There seems to be a new trend among my foodie friends that I can’t seem to grasp: why do they constantly forget/neglect poor service at restaurants? I don’t get it. I work in the service industry as well and if I ever got snooty with one of my clients or neglectful towards a minute detail, I lose an account. It’s that simple. And over the past few years, clients have a hair trigger.

The restaurant industry should be no different. My wife and I go out to eat quite frequently and although it’s mostly for a type of food that we don’t cook at home, we pay for and expect service that warrants the price at places that don’t serve food in plastic baskets. I hear too many stories from our friends about how they endured crappy service at this place or that, but they always return and never complain. I find this unacceptable. A chef could serve me the best braised steak I’ve ever eaten in my life, but if I had to ask the waiter three times for more water, didn’t get the sauce on the side as I asked, and was charged an automatic gratuity just because I had five people at my table, I’m writing off that restaurant. It’s that simple. If you took your car to a Midas because they have the best extended long life oil and served Starbucks in the waiting room, would you return there if they charged you a mysterious “service fee,” took 6 hours longer than promised, and left dirty foot prints on your mats? I doubt it. But why do people constantly overlook this for food…food that in today’s day and age in Chicago can be found at three other places within 15 minutes away?

As a hard working professional who spends all day at the beck and call of my clients, that last thing I tolerate is poor service at a restaurant. I’m there not only for the food, but for the experience. My money buys ambiance, piece of mind, dinner, and most of all, service. I’m paying to have other people take care for me for a meal. Again, a restaurant could have the best [blank] dish, but if my reservation was not honored, my wait was way longer than told, my table was in a crappy location, my server was neglectful and possibly messed something up, and then the server expects a minimum 15% tip at the end of the meal, I’m done with that place. It’s high time that more people follow suit.

As much as people love a place for a certain type of food, is it worth the headaches, hassles, and payment for services not rendered? In a day and age when for each and every type of cuisine anyone of us can name three alternatives, why do people put up with crappy service?

Is it possible we have different thresholds for bad service? Honestly, I just don't tend to notice bad service, or maybe I just have better luck than you.

In any case, that's why -- bad service hasn't really affected my enjoyment of the food, and that's what I care about.

A chef could serve me the best braised steak I’ve ever eaten in my life,

Braised steak?

This tells me pretty much all I need to know about where you're coming from.

There are places for people like you, for whom the experience is far more important than the food. I'm sure you've found some by now that please you. You go ahead and stick to the places that give you what you need. My and my foodie buds will be chowing down on some amazing food served by surly waitresses in plastic baskets while we try in vain to get a refill on our water.

And loving it! (And, here's a secret--the surly waitresses often change their tune if you're nice to them, show a sense of humor, or a bit of empathy. They work damn hard, you know.)

Personally speaking, on the rare occasions when I have service issues (I'm astounded by the frequency with which other people have them -- makes me wonder sometimes) I simply have better ways to spend my energy than getting all bent out of shape over things that I can just shrug off. If I have some problem with a server, I can get all pissy and upset about it and let it ruin my evening (or day or week, apparently), or I can choose not to care and move on and enjoy my life instead.

But if I may turn this around, why is it so important to you that everybody feel the same way you do?

I see two big reasons why LTHers genuinely don't experience service problems at the same rate as others:

1) They're less likely to be at the overcrowded ubertrendy spot of the moment on Friday night, which is when service breaks down or stops giving a damn.

2) They're more likely to engage the staff, which improves service.

That said, there is also the personality type that seeks out trouble. My grandfather evidently was served the greatest steak in human history in 1947, because he spent the rest of his life bitching about every steak he was served after it, to the general mortification of the rest of the family.

Me, the truly bad service experiences I've had stick out in memory because they're separated by years of at least unmemorably decent and occasionally truly excellent service.

What if we were talking about, say, books instead of food? Would you be willing to posit that some people expect different things out of a bookstore - for instance, a real librophile would prefer a bookstore with rare shabby first editions and staff who may be crusty but who can talk about literature. Somebody else who loves reading but isn't as into the nuts and bolts of it may prefer a chain bookstore that provides comfortable seating and a cup of coffee, even if a rare book has never entered the place.

It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of where your focus is.

Mhays wrote:What if we were talking about, say, books instead of food? Would you be willing to posit that some people expect different things out of a bookstore - for instance, a real librophile would prefer a bookstore with rare shabby first editions and staff who may be crusty but who can talk about literature. Somebody else who loves reading but isn't as into the nuts and bolts of it may prefer a chain bookstore that provides comfortable seating and a cup of coffee, even if a rare book has never entered the place.

It isn't a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of where your focus is.

The problem is that the situation McClane is describing and the one you're describing aren't analogous. He's saying that there's another bookstore with rare shabby first editions down the street but an informed and polite staff, so why don't you go there? What he fails to acknowledge is that A) some don't share his opinion that the selection at the second store is just as good, and B) some don't share his opinion that the service at the first store is bad, so he reaches the logical conclusion that this means we overlook poor service. Problem is that his conclusions are based on opinions that aren't universally (or even widely) shared around these parts. Doesn't make him wrong and us right. But the conversation is going something like this:

McClane: Why do you go to restaurant A instead of restaurant B? Restaurant A sucks!
Us: Actually, I think restaurant A is really good.
McClane: But why would you go to a place that sucks?
Us: Uh... because I don't think it sucks?
McClane: So you don't care if a restaurant sucks? You should!
Us: Uh... I care, I just don't think restaurant A sucks.
McClane: I don't understand why you don't care if a restaurant sucks.
Us: Forget it.

Actually, that last part hasn't happened yet. But it probably should.

The validity of the OP's entire query is questionable, IMO. First, as was pointed out above, it wrongly assumes that all "foodies" share the same viewpoint. This isn't even remotely accurate (not even the relatively narrow segment of 'foodies' who post here have reached a consensus on this or many other issues). Secondly, I'd say that forgive or consider less important are probably more accurate descriptions than "forget" or "neglect," when it comes to service. As was also pointed out above, when taken into account along with countless other factors, service is merely one aspect of a restaurant experience. And depending on the overall circumstances, it can be a small one.

I am way more likely to be wary of a diner who places disproportionate importance on service. Generally speaking (not saying this about the OP, per se), I consider these types of diners less experienced and less knowledgeable about dining/eating out than others. Part of being an experienced diner is knowing how to set realistic service expectations. The opinions of a person who cannot adjust his service expectations -- based on the overall experience in question -- may be perfectly valid but I almost always read them with a raised eyebrow. I eat out a lot, I can be pretty fussy and I almost never encounter critical service issues. So, when they pop up in posts, they often convey more to me about the person posting them than they do about the restaurant being discussed. As such, rarely are the opinions of such service determinists of much value to me personally. There are, of course, exceptions, which often correspond to my level of familiarity with the person doing the posting.

=R=

Looking back on my many, many years of eating in restaurants (which I do way more than I should), I honestly cannot remember a single instance of sub-par service. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I've occasionally experienced what you would classify as poor service...I just don't remember any examples.

How can this be, you ask? It's easy: I just don't care. Seriously, if I have to ask for a water refill three times, who cares? It's not like I'm going to exceed my "Can I have more water?"-asking quota, and asking is certainly not going to shame or emasculate me. Besides, maybe the server is in the weeds, and just forgot. Whatever the case, you know what usually happens when I ask for a water refill that third time? The waiter & I have a friendly laugh about it (usually he says something along the lines of "it's one of those days" or "it's been so crazy, I need a drink", and I say "I hear ya man, it's a madhouse in here tonight"). You know what happens next? I end up getting friendly, extra-attentive service, feeling great about my experience, and leaving a better-than-average tip.

On the other hand, a friend of mine used to ask me for restaurant recommendations (I use the past tense, because I stopped giving him recs for reasons I'm about to explain), and, without fail, he would come back to me with complaints about the service. After dining out with him a few times, I know exactly why: he doesn't say "please" when he orders or "thank you" when something is brought out or refilled, he doesn't chat/banter with FoH staff, and when there are service or kitchen snafus, he comes off as aggressive & upset. Meanwhile, his wife (who has very legitimate medically-necessary dietary restrictions) asks questions about items' ingredients without even a hint of a smile, in a way that is a blend of all-business and a kindergarten teacher asking a student if he forgot to close the lid on the class hamster's cage (knowing full well that he is guilty). You've seen the type: "Is this item vegan?" "Yes, I can assure you for a fact that it is vegan." "Okay, but does it have any animal products in it?" "No, it does not. It's vegan." "Okay, so it has no meat or dairy of any kind in it?" "<sigh>...that's correct...<eye roll>." Between the two of them, it's no wonder they experience poor service so frequently & consistently.

Let me ask you: when was the last time you went to a restaurant, and genuinely asked your server how her day's been going? Or which item served there is her favorite? Or, when she forgets your sauce on the side, asked her for it in a polite & friendly manner, then laughed about it with her & offered some empathy for the rough double-shift she's working that day? Truly stellar service (as opposed to just "good" or "acceptable" service) doesn't just magically happen - it almost always depends on the customer understanding that the server is an actual human, not a mindless automaton or TV butler.

So to answer your question, "why do foodies forget/neglect service?" I don't...like all injustices in life, rather than letting a bad experience ruin my good time, on the very, very rare occasion when my server is less than friendly, I let it go...after all, next time I could be seated in a different, friendlier server's section. Plus, life's too short to let one apathetic server ruin my evening out. In most cases, however, I don't get bad service because I try to go into the dining experience with a positive, friendly disposition. Because, as Sir Paul said, "in the end, the love you take / is equal to the love you make"

Khaopaat wrote:So to answer your question, "why do foodies forget/neglect service?" I don't...like all injustices in life, rather than letting a bad experience ruin my good time, on the very, very rare occasion when my server is less than friendly, I let it go...after all, next time I could be seated in a different, friendlier server's section. Plus, life's too short to let one apathetic server ruin my evening out. In most cases, however, I don't get bad service because I try to go into the dining experience with a positive, friendly disposition. Because, as Sir Paul said, "in the end, the love you take / is equal to the love you make"

Read, less diplomatically: How often do you have to have the same problem before you start to consider the possibility that the problem might be you?

elakin wrote:

A chef could serve me the best braised steak I’ve ever eaten in my life,

Braised steak?

This tells me pretty much all I need to know about where you're coming from.

There are places for people like you...

I'm not going to respond to the OP's query because I find that others have pretty well expressed my sentiments. (Indeed, phrased differently, on this same board, is an entire other thread devoted precisely to service issues.) What I find appalling is this personal attack and the fact that everyone has ignored it. Regardless of the tone of the original post, what justifies this kind of response? The only thing that surprises me more is that many people I respect on this board let it go without comment. Ad hominem attacks are wholly uncalled. In fact, I thought that one of the things this board stood for and, indeed, championed, was open-mindedness.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

elakin wrote:

A chef could serve me the best braised steak I’ve ever eaten in my life,

Braised steak?

This tells me pretty much all I need to know about where you're coming from.

There are places for people like you...

I'm not going to respond to the OP's query because I find that others have pretty well expressed my sentiments. (Indeed, phrased differently, on this same board, is an entire other thread devoted precisely to service issues.) What I find appalling is this personal attack and the fact that everyone has ignored it.

Duly and rightfully chastised.

I'm kind of in the position of agreeing with everybody here. That is, I agree with the original poster that service issues are important, and that bad service can trump great food, and I agree with everybody else that service so bad that it trumps great food hardly ever happens. Although I can remember bad service experiences, in another sense I can't remember when the last one was, because they are so rare. I do think there are people on this list who are able to tolerate bad service better than I can, but overall I'd say the state of restaurant service in this city in places all up and down the scale (at least in my experience) is exceptionally good, and not an issue. And like others, I wonder if those who see bad service more frequently are somehow "bringing it on" themselves, although this is probably not fair, since we don't know.

To follow up on Gypsy Boy's post, I think we can't really understand how to respond to the OP without some sort of idea on what he/she considers "bad service."

Some people are just trouble magnets. Some people see the world different than others. Some people have different levels of comfort and different outlooks on what is important.

If the answer is "One busboy looked at me funny as he was clearing my table - and I'll never return!" that makes a different case than "I was punched in the face by Chef Du Jour and I can't understand why...but I'll never return."

whiskeybent wrote:If the answer is "One busboy looked at me funny as he was clearing my table - and I'll never return!"

Speaking of busboys and never returning........

Our waitress reminded me of a hooker who does her nails and talks on the cell phone during session, but, to keep the analogy consistent, the bus boys more than made up for her lack of interest by constantly rubbing their genitals on my elbow as they squeezed past. I should have banked the hundred I spent on my wife, had a couple of hot dogs and the spent the remainder at the Admiral theater, at least there I'd have interacted with the opposite sex.

I’m there not only for the food, but for the experience.

I think you've answered your own question here; some people are simply there for the food, altho in defense of the OP professional reviewers (think Michelin, AAA) often consider service and ambience an essential element.

As has been indicated by above responses, tho, this divide between good-food/indifferent-experience is occasionally overcome by engaging restaurant personnel and forging relationships which sometimes explains intense partisanships (cultivated by repeat visits and outgoing personalities) that do not seem justified by first time visitors.

What I find appalling is this personal attack and the fact that everyone has ignored it. Regardless of the tone of the original post, what justifies this kind of response? The only thing that surprises me more is that many people I respect on this board let it go without comment. Ad hominem attacks are wholly uncalled. In fact, I thought that one of the things this board stood for and, indeed, championed, was open-mindedness.

Wow. Gypsy boy, this is one of the most blatant examples of lifting a quote out of context and mischaracterizing it that I've ever seen.

Here's the part you quoted and called an "ad hominem attack"

Quote:
A chef could serve me the best braised steak I’ve ever eaten in my life,


Braised steak?

This tells me pretty much all I need to know about where you're coming from.

There are places for people like you...

Note the dot dot dot...that indicates the part that you left out because it didn't support your claim that I was attacking the OP.

Here's what followed:

There are places for people like you.... for whom the experience is far more important than the food. I'm sure you've found some by now that please you. You go ahead and stick to the places that give you what you need. My and my foodie buds will be chowing down on some amazing food served by surly waitresses in plastic baskets while we try in vain to get a refill on our water.

Ok, now how is that an attack, ad hominem or otherwise? (ad hominem refers to calling names. Did I call the guy a name?)

I said "people like you, for whom the experience is far more important than the food". This is not calling a name, nor is it attack. It's an honest restate of what the guy actually said about himself in his own post.

My money buys ambiance, piece of mind, dinner, and most of all, service. I’m paying to have other people take care for me for a meal.

I don't know if you're just looking to get all up in arms or what, Gypsy Boy, but I believe you owe me an apology, for twisting my words and my meaning in such a dishonest way.

I stand by my post. (And you may want to look up the meaning of ad hominem.)

Why don't you explain exactly what part of my post you found to be a "personal attack" or an "ad hominem attack"?

Please. You made the claim. Back it up.

I think Gypsy Boy's quoting is dishonest and makes the tone of eddie's post seem considerably harsher than it really was, but I also thought eddie's post was a little harsh, even if I agree with the sentiment.

Im not a "foodie", but heres my take.

I rarely run into bad service(one persons definition of bad service can vary form another persons), and would not be happy or forget it if I did.

For me the food, and the service go hand in hand. With that said, unless the server is rude(which has never happened), I am alot more forgiving of an empty drink, or minor service issue vs bad or mediocre food. Bad or mediocre food is the deal breaker, if a restaurant serves bad or mediocre food they will not get another shot 99% of the time(it used to be 100% but I gave a place another shot once, and came away with the same opinion as the first time).

Another good question: How many of us have worked in the service/hospitality industry? Restaurant/hotel/whatever.

Walking many miles in uncomfortable server shoes has certainly helped many of us see things from a different perspective, I'm sure.

whiskeybent wrote:Another good question: How many of us have worked in the service/hospitality industry? Restaurant/hotel/whatever.

Walking many miles in uncomfortable server shoes has certainly helped many of us see things from a different perspective, I'm sure.

great point, although I strangely have more empithy/patience for FOH people than I do for any bad food that comes out of the kitchen, and I spent years in the kitchen in a previous life.

elakin wrote:Why don't you explain exactly what part of my post you found to be a "personal attack" or an "ad hominem attack"?

Please. You made the claim. Back it up.

I think the part that is a little harsh is beginning your post by highlighting "braised steak" and seeming to conclude from this that the OP's opinions are different from your, perhaps less well-informed, and less worthy of consideration and discussion. Maybe you didn't have this intent, but this is how it came across.

McClain: a "steak" is typically used to denote a thin cut of meat, which is then cooked relatively quickly at a high temperature (i.e. grilled, broiled, pan fried, etc.). Braising is a cooking method done at a lower temperature, longer cooking time, and in the presence of a liquid. Generally, you braise a thicker cut of meat, especially those that come from parts of the animal that need the longer cooking time to break down collagen. In short, one doesn't generally "braise" a "steak", although there are counterexamples.

Ok, now see...."a little harsh" I'll readily admit to. I can be harsh at times. I probably was with the OP.

But, if anyone cares to read back, I think it could be argued that McClane's post could also be seen as "a little harsh", so I just don't get why my response was termed "a personal attack" by the quoting-out-of-context Gypsy Boy.

Anyway, here's my attempt to try and bring this topic back on track:

McClane,

Can you give us some examples of places that you feel are doing it right? What are a few of your go-to restaurants that consistently deliver the experience that you're looking for from a restaurant?

I am with Gypsy Boy on this one. In my opinion, the apology is owed to no one but the OP here, for the nature of the comments aimed personally at him.

Well, maybe you'll give me a straight answer, then. Which comments, specifically, should be apologized for?

Please quote the comments in their entirety, and explain why you feel they merit an apology. Thanks.

i, too, believe elakin stepped over the line of civility. when i read his post i winced. it was hostile, and for no apparent reason. justjoan

I think people are overthinking this. I was amused by calling attention to the "braised steak" reference.
But, then, I'm easily amused.

i, too, believe elakin stepped over the line of civility. when i read his post i winced.

Would you tell me which part of my post you believe stepped over that line and made you wince?

I'm not trying to be stubborn or obstinate here, I honestly do not get what people would find uncivil or view as a personal attack in that post. I've re-read it multiple times now.