When Other "Patrons" Are Jerks--a Friday night at WASC

Friday night, the kids and I ended up at Weiner and Still Champion after I spaced out thinking we could get dinner Edzo’s (I had read the thread so I don’t know why I forgot it closed early). I wanted to try something new. The kids were thrilled that I failed in my plan because they love WASC. WASC was empty when we arrived, but fairly full by the time we were got our food.

When we were about five minutes from wrapping up—meaning my kids were still eating and I was trying to steal their French fries—two African-American teens entered. They were immediately obvious because they were laughing and loud and in each other’s faces and dropping more f-bombs and n-word bombs in 90 seconds than Richard Pryor did in 90 minutes. They didn’t seem to plan to order and after about three minutes of theatre they left. The restaurant had me and my two kids (10 and 13) at one booth. A couple that spoke French to one another with two younger kids at the booth right next to us and maybe six or eight Evanston youth of indeterminate age—might have been Northwestern students, might have been juniors and seniors in high school, might have been twenty-somethings after work—standing around waiting to order. No one intervened although it was clearly uncomfortable. My kids were staring quite openly with fascination which I did nothing to discourage. I was kind of hoping they might garner a “what you staring at?” which would provide entrée to say “knock it off.” But these two were too entwined with one another to pay attention to the rest of us.

The teens continued laughing and talking outside the front window of WASC while we finished eating, and we noticed while we got back in the car that they went back inside but parked themselves in a booth and again didn’t seem to plan to order. My kids asked me if I thought the kids were “on something.” I did, and I responded, “yuhp.” They said “the African American kids at school don’t act like that.” I said, “thank God.”

So my question is “what do you do in this situation?” The swearing and the n-words were unpleasant to hear. I wanted to point this out to the pair, but I also thought they were high or buzzed and might be volatile. I thought Gus might say something, but he was clearly busy with a line of several people to work through. (The new menu is great by the way.) I thought about calling the police non-emergency number but I had left my cell phone at home and felt it was too long after the incident by the time we got home after renting a movie. Part of me also thought it was just adolescent theatre (as I’ve put above) and probably better off just ignored. I mean the boundary issue is really the same one I’m trying to enforce with my kids “I don’t care what you’re saying to one another or with your friends, but if you’re swearing I don’t need to hear it.”

Live and let live.

gleam wrote:Live and let live.

I do agree with this. Instead of confronting them (unless they were directly attacking you), I think your energy is better spent using it at a learning experience for your kids.

-M

You don't come out and say you were afraid (only uncomfortable), and maybe this is because you weren't, but I would have been. Since the two youths had no intention to order, my mind would have been going to what their intention was, and mayhem would have seemed a real possibility. I'm glad that didn't happen.

So to answer your question "what would you have done," my answer is, "leave, proactively." I would have recognized that this was perhaps an overreaction, but nevertheless a prudent one (in my judgment) for my family's safety. Confronting the troublemakers would have held too much potential for escalation beyond my ability to master. Doing nothing would have made us sitting ducks if real trouble broke out. Just making sure my family and I weren't there when the trouble broke out would have posed itself to me as the best response. I would have considered the possibility that I looked like a coward in my children's eyes (and I wouldn't like that), but on the other hand I would have been sending them a lesson about self-protection that might stand them in very good stead in some future scenario.

Then, once we were safely out of and away from the place, I would have called 911. The police who showed up could evaluate the right response to the teens. I would have considered that my responsibility to the patrons, employees, and Gus, rather than to leave them all victims to whatever the teens decided to do next. If the police decided the teens were harmless mischiefmakers and a "be on your way" was all that was required, so much the better.

This is a part of our regular dining experience when the weather is nice enough that we have the windows open - well, it's just a part of life where I live, dinner or not. I have, however, when this occurs and we're nearby, said gently, "Hey, there are kids here, would you mind watching your language?" I often get a mildly surprised and respectful response, though I don't recommend this approach for everyone or for every situation.

I would have called 911

I reserve 911 for when I see flames or fists are flying. Reading your response, however, I do think the best response (given the responsibility to the people in the restaurant) would have been to go to one of the stores or restaurants on the block, explain the situation, and ask to use the phone to call the non-emergency number.

Regarding saying "there are kids here" response, that's where the threat level was hard to read. I didn't know if it would lead to an escalation.

My street smarts say live and let live. I would not mess with them over language. I'd call 911 only if there was an actual incident. If I thought I or my kid was in danger, I'd get the h#ll out of there as quietly as possible.

What would you say if you called the police? "There are some teenagers near me being teenagers and expressing their first amendment rights, and they're refusing to engage me when I stare at them. Please come make them stop!"? I don't get it. It's not like they were threatening anyone.

I just don't see any reason why you'd get the police involved. The two best options are:

1. Ignore it.
2. Tell Gus they're making you uncomfortable and let him decide what to do.

I don't think any of the other suggested responses would have improved the situation at all...

I would have told them to cut out the swearing in front of my daughter.

One time I was at Bill's and a guy in line in front of me was proudly telling people that he was in the paper that day-- that was his felony assault conviction on page 5.

I would just stay the hell out of Evanston, and only eat in safe neighborhoods like where Uncle John's or Moon's are.

jimswside wrote:I would have told them to cut out the swearing in front of my daughter.

I was wondering when someone was gonna write something like that. I thought I was the only one, and trust me, I would have been MUCH more impolite than SWSJim here.

seebee wrote:
I was wondering when someone was gonna write something like that. I thought I was the only one, and trust me, I would have been MUCH more impolite than SWSJim here.

I ususally mind my own business, but repeated swearing in front of kids is unacceptable imho.

100% agreed.
As a matter of fact, if no kids were there, I would eavesdrop on them and prolly giggle a few times. but no respect for kids in the area means that I would be doing them a favor by telling them to shut up, and possibly proving to them that shutting up is better than the alternative. Someone else might not give them the chance to shut up in the future, and would simply go straight to the shutting their mouths for them part.

jimswside wrote:

seebee wrote:
I was wondering when someone was gonna write something like that. I thought I was the only one, and trust me, I would have been MUCH more impolite than SWSJim here.

I ususally mind my own business, but repeated swearing in front of kids is unacceptable imho.

The way I see it, people acting like that around my kids IS my business, it affects them directly. In my experience, using humor or some mild mocking is the best way to get them to behave.

Octarine wrote:
The way I see it, people acting like that around my kids IS my business, it affects them directly.

correct, thats what I was saying.

seebee wrote:trust me, I would have been MUCH more impolite than SWSJim here.

"Hey, **********! Watch your ******* mouth! There's ************* kids in here! ****!"

In the moment, it was hard to judge if they were kids trying to upset bourgeois sensibilities or kids who were high as kites or both. That the situation was simple and had a simple solution seems naive to me. I do appreciate all the discussion. As to not eating in Evanston, I eat at WASC three to four times a month with and without the kids, and I don't intend to stop.

My kids, by the way, treated the experience as an opportunity for vocabulary building. In the car, they were discussing the repeated use of the word "huff"--something my kids thought no one knew outside their school. It's an incredibly insulting way of saying someone is really bad at something according to the urban dictionary.

cilantro wrote:

seebee wrote:trust me, I would have been MUCH more impolite than SWSJim here.

"Hey, **********! Watch your ******* mouth! There's ************* kids in here! ****!"

I don't have to swear to be impolite. They would have gotten my point, and very vividly, mind you, without me needing to swear.

Well, I guess that I'm a bit puzzled, then - neither of the two scenarios you described seem particularly frightening. I fully admit, there are nuances and degrees to this sort of thing: If I hear language that implies a threat of violence, that's completely different from swear words. Based solely on your description, though, I wouldn't have a problem making a polite request to either a blowhard or an intoxicated person, though I wouldn't really expect the swearing to stop.

What matters to me is that my son sees how I react in situations where I have a difference of opinion about what's appropriate - and if I can't do it in a calm, friendly manner - I don't.

CCCB wrote:...but I also thought they were high or buzzed and might be volatile.

CCCB wrote:In the moment, it was hard to judge if they were kids trying to upset bourgeois sensibilities or kids who were high as kites or both.

What exactly are kids in Evanston smoking these days that makes them so volatile and prone to outbursts of violence? Is PCP back in style? Most of the random kids I come across these days - if they're high at all - are smoking pot. Maybe at my ripe old age (28) I'm just out of touch and kids are doing some fancy new drug that makes then flail violently, not smoking pot, causing them to get the munchies and want some deep-fried chili.

I don't mean to diminish what was clearly an uncomfortable experience, I guess I'm just recoiling a bit from this Reefer Madness.



Am I missing something that these are just obnoxious teens who need to be put in their place? If mhays told me to watch my tongue, 17 and high or not, I'd shut my mouth.

CCCB wrote:My kids, by the way, treated the experience as an opportunity for vocabulary building. In the car, they were discussing the repeated use of the word "huff"--something my kids thought no one knew outside their school. It's an incredibly insulting way of saying someone is really bad at something according to the urban dictionary.

It's also "A sentiment used to describe extreme frustration with a situation.", "A sarcasm meaning of someone that pawns you in a video game. Basically saying that they suck while your losing.", "A show on Showtime about Psychiatrist Craig Huffstodt" and a whole bunch of other things that I'm too embarrassed to quote.

Given that I'm about to bake a pumpkin pie, I sure am glad I looked on Epicurious for a recipe, not Urban Dictionary

-Dan

See, this is why I live in the city and haven't moved to the 'burbs. I don't think I could handle the roving gangs of possibly-high teenagers cursing all of the time. I much prefer the crackheads in the city standing on street corners yelling at nothing.

dansch wrote: I guess I'm just recoiling a bit from this Reefer Madness.

thats funny dan.

perhaps its just easier & more p.c. to blame "the dope" for behavior and respect issues than to blame a possible lack of parenting.

CCCB wrote:

I would have called 911

I reserve 911 for when I see flames or fists are flying. Reading your response, however, I do think the best response (given the responsibility to the people in the restaurant) would have been to go to one of the stores or restaurants on the block, explain the situation, and ask to use the phone to call the non-emergency number.

FWIW, my understanding of when Chicago wants you to use 911 and when they want you to use the non-emergency 311 is this: If a timely police response of any kind is needed, call 911. It doesn't have to be because the sky is falling. It can be to prevent a somewhat nasty situation from turning into a really nasty one, or even just to report a boisterous backporch party that is keeping the neighbors up till all hours. If, on the other hand, a non-timely police response is perfectly adequate (for instance, when needing to file a report of a burglary, which can be taken down later in the day or even the next with no deleterious consequence), call 311. I imagine the same applies in Evanston.

I am curious to hear the proprietor's opinion of how this type of situation should be handled.

riddlemay wrote:I imagine the same applies in Evanston.

FWIW, this is a common source of confusion: Evanston differs from Chicago in that 911 is for a crime (or life/safety emergency) in progress. You call police non-emergency for other police issues.

CCCB wrote:two African-American teens entered

CCCB wrote:They said “the African American kids at school don’t act like that.” I said, “thank God.”

Can I ask why the ethnicity of the two teenagers is relevant?

If they were that loud and offensive I would have thought the owner would respond in some manner seeing that you noticed other patrons looked uncomfortable during this event, he should have too...unless he chose to become not involved for one reason or another. His proper response would be to kick them out (politely of course) and then call the police for follow up.
As far as ethnicity is involved, you could say, these two teenagers came into the store, they were loud and cussing using the "f" and "n" word, I was so shocked because they were Koreans and I never saw Koreans behave like that.
To bring up ethnicity usually confirms our own prejudices in a justified way depending on the situation.
I would have told them to be aware of others and if they jumped me I certainly would hope the other patrons would back me up !

I brought up ethnicity to give the whole context. It is true that it shouldn't matter, but it does make the decision of a middle-aged white guy (myself) on whether or not to intervene more fraught. It was a good pointed question though because thinking it about made me realize that if had been two white kids I would have been more likely to say something. I also think I would have been more likely to intervene if my kids hadn't been there because once a confrontation begins you don't know how it's going to go (including my own behavior).

Katie wrote:I am curious to hear the proprietor's opinion of how this type of situation should be handled.

Yeah, if they were that obvious and disturbing, this is certainly a case where I would expect one of the staff to step in. Hell, I used to work up the street at the (now defunct) Cafe Express as a college kid, and we'd throw people out for that kind of stuff all the time.