Do you care about the lack of food trucks in Chicago?

Read this http://tinyurl.com/2b49qv5 and let your alderman know which side of the fence you are on. We are introducing legislation to city council on 6/9 and need all the support we can get!

phillipfoss wrote:Read this http://tinyurl.com/2b49qv5 and let your alderman know which side of the fence you are on. We are introducing legislation to city council on 6/9 and need all the support we can get!

Does the legislation include carts, or just trucks? I've always preferred carts.

Kennyz wrote:

phillipfoss wrote:Read this http://tinyurl.com/2b49qv5 and let your alderman know which side of the fence you are on. We are introducing legislation to city council on 6/9 and need all the support we can get!

Does the legislation include carts, or just trucks? I've always preferred carts.

Carts are charming, but don't trucks make more sense in our climate? Might not be so limited by weather. I mean, if you have to pick one.

Carts have been operating seasonally in Chicago forever. Every late spring all of the carts start popping up in east Rogers Park and by about now, they are everywhere. I can't even imagine what it's like in Little Village, Pilsen or Back of the Yards.

Now all they need is to get rid of that whole "my business and livelihood for a third of the year is illegal" thing.

A very well written article with plenty of valid points.

I would have to say that 80% of my meals when I lived in Southeast Asia (based in Thailand) came off of a "food truck, hawker, or stick-n-serve". Whatever you want to call it, I would pay good money to chow down on various meat off of a stick while walking around the city. Sure, it won't be as exciting as it used to be on the streets of BKK, losing the mystery of wondering what I'm eating and all, but I'd sure as heck go for it!!

I say give it a chance. This city has tried and failed at stranger things.

I just wouldn't put too much stock in expecting the higher ups in the city to actually "do it right" or that the city will manage this project well, considering their track record of ridiculousness. Just my 2 cents. I will contact my alderman and put in the word.

just wrote an email written to Eugene C. Schulter, 47th Ward Alderman. If you don't know who your alderman is, go here. Take 30 seconds to write an email.

On the other hand though, don't you guys want more restrictions/legislation/fees/regulation on small business in Chicago?

Does the legislation include carts, or just trucks? I've always preferred carts.

Everything!

I called my alderman's office several weeks ago and she's (Vi Daley) supporting it. Thank you Chef Foss for getting out and the fighting the good fight, I alway's come back from LA thinking we have better food, but no food trucks. We are so ready for this.

Habibi wrote:Carts have been operating seasonally in Chicago forever. Every late spring all of the carts start popping up in east Rogers Park and by about now, they are everywhere. I can't even imagine what it's like in Little Village, Pilsen or Back of the Yards.

Now all they need is to get rid of that whole "my business and livelihood for a third of the year is illegal" thing.

I hope whatever legislation the city comes up with is written in a way that taco and elote vendors are encourages to set up shop not just in their own neighborhoods, but also in the loop or wherever these Chef-driven trucks are thinking about going. My answer to this thread's title is mostly "no", but that's because I'm envisioning Gale Gand French pastry trucks, Rick Bayless sopes on wheels with microgreens, and a Phillip Foss Shaghai Bass ceviche wagon (sorry Phillip). No offense to these talented chefs, but that kind of clean-as-a-whistle, Twitter-promoted cheffiness is not what I need downtown. I would change my opinion if I saw any evidence that this would help bring some better ethnic culture and food to downtown Chicago.

I imagine there is a case to be made against food trucks, or else we would have them. This case may be specious, or based on faulty assumptions, or corrupt, but nevertheless I'd like to know what it is. The Phil Vettel article doesn't give a clue to it.

Kennyz wrote:
I hope whatever legislation the city comes up with is written in a way that taco and elote vendors are encourages to set up shop not just in their own neighborhoods, but also in the loop or wherever these Chef-driven trucks are thinking about going.

I think we won't get the type of ethnic food trucks we want without the Chef driven ones leading the way. I dream about the bacon wrapped hot dog cart I love in LA cruising around my neighborhood, but I don't think that's possible without the Chef driven movement leading the way. I believe the city council will listen more closely to these chefs and hopefully the what we're looking for will follow.

riddlemay wrote:I imagine there is a case to be made against food trucks, or else we would have them. This case may be specious, or based on faulty assumptions, or corrupt, but nevertheless I'd like to know what it is. The Phil Vettel article doesn't give a clue to it.

To echo your point, I imagine if there was a good case to be made against food trucks, we'd know what it is by now.

The fact is that in the world of municipal regulations many things just continue as they always did based on outdated rules that are currently unnecessary for a myriad of reasons.

Is there a case to be made for why I can't buy beer before 11am on a Sunday?

eatchicago wrote:

riddlemay wrote:I imagine there is a case to be made against food trucks, or else we would have them. This case may be specious, or based on faulty assumptions, or corrupt, but nevertheless I'd like to know what it is. The Phil Vettel article doesn't give a clue to it.

To echo your point, I imagine if there was a good case to be made against food trucks, we'd know what it is by now.

The fact is that in the world of municipal regulations many things just continue as they always did based on outdated rules that are currently unnecessary for a myriad of reasons.

Is there a case to be made for why I can't buy beer before 11am on a Sunday?

The perfectly reasonable case for why we don't have (more) food trucks in Chicago is that the city has other things to worry about. Sure, I guess I'd rather they spent time taking up this cause vs. banning foie gras, but in the grand scheme of things I, and the vast majority of aldermans' constituents, don't give a rats ass one way or the other about whether or not (more) food trucks will be rolling around Chicago.

Kennyz wrote:The perfectly reasonable case for why we don't have (more) food trucks in Chicago is that the city has other things to worry about. Sure, I guess I'd rather they spent time taking up this cause vs. banning foie gras, but in the grand scheme of things I, and the vast majority of aldermans' constituents, don't give a rats ass one way or the other about whether or not (more) food trucks will be rolling around Chicago.

I'm not sure that's a case so much as it is a reason. It is a reasonable reason, but in a debate of pros and cons, "I can't be bothered" doesn't hold up as a reasonable case. The fact that most people don't care doesn't build a case. Take a look through the City Council docket, there's a hell of a lot more than the foie gras ban going on that many people simply don't care about.

There's no case to be made for why I can't buy beer before 11am on Sunday but the reason I can't is because no one has bothered to take the law off the books.

eatchicago wrote:Is there a case to be made for why I can't buy beer before 11am on a Sunday?

Of course there's a case to be made for it. You're supposed to be in church before 11am on Sunday. And if you happen to be of a faith that doesn't specifically celebrate religion on Sunday morning, or if you don't go someplace to show your neighbors your religiousosity at all, you simply don't matter.

But we digress ... and perhaps drift into intolerant sentiment ...? Can we get back to the food truck discussion?

Katie wrote:But we digress ... and perhaps drift into intolerant sentiment ...? Can we get back to the food truck discussion?

Um. Ok. Go ahead.

I care about the lack of food trucks in Chicago, but I don't have an alderperson. Who do suburban food truck supporters contact? Not that I am confident that Mayor Daley and the city council want suburb dwellers coming to the city.

nr706 wrote:

eatchicago wrote:Is there a case to be made for why I can't buy beer before 11am on a Sunday?

Of course there's a case to be made for it. You're supposed to be in church before 11am on Sunday. And if you happen to be of a faith that doesn't specifically celebrate religion on Sunday morning, or if you don't go someplace to show your neighbors your religiousosity at all, you simply don't matter.

Although that's a funny answer, it's also a true answer. While we certainly don't sign on to the sentiment anymore, that was the thinking that led to the law.

And that's the kind of thing I'm looking for in the food truck debate. The reason anti-food truck laws are on the books isn't simply inertia, or higher priorities. There's some reason those laws got put on the books in the first place, and so far, I'm not finding any clue (either in the linked article, or the discussion here) to what that reason is.

Kennyz wrote: I hope whatever legislation the city comes up with is written in a way that taco and elote vendors are encourages to set up shop not just in their own neighborhoods, but also in the loop or wherever these Chef-driven trucks are thinking about going. My answer to this thread's title is mostly "no", but that's because I'm envisioning Gale Gand French pastry trucks, Rick Bayless sopes on wheels with microgreens, and a Phillip Foss Shaghai Bass ceviche wagon (sorry Phillip)...

Ha, that's pretty damn funny, I'm all for the trucks but never really thought of it like this. I too would hope and will cross my fingers that were not just talking about Charlie Trotters Rotisserie Truckin' Chicken. I like it for the idea that it will allow younger people and others who cant or don't want to risk it all with renting a restaurant space, will be able to start off with a truck, build a following and then get a spot somewhere in the city, which is good for all sides.

So I'm for them with the thinking that it wont be just popular chefs who get the licenses needed for them should they become a part of Chicago (like they are everywhere else...) We need taco trucks like they have in Houston and maybe something like the Korean taco trucks of LA and a range of options from creative food folks and others who specialize in an old family biscuits and gravy recipe or something like that. For people that have created their own amazing food items and don't want to have to have a whole menu. They wanna make a variety of pupusas and that's it, just chili, hot dogs and fresh cut fries, nothing else. For folks that do up a particular thing or two real well and that's all they wanna do. Food trucks/carts are great for this. I need a Mississippi Tamale Truck around town.

Whats funny is I see one of the arguments against the trucks is that the city doesn't want them to take away business from the restaurants and eating spots we currently have. Well I'd be willing to bet that most of the trucks will be from current popular restaurants around town because they could use the "we already run a clean restaurant that always passes inspection" etc...arguments and I dont want that, just trucks from places we already have. As far as taking away business, well I say let them park in front of any fast food chain they want and maybe they cant be within 50 feet of an open restaurant/eating spot or something to that effect. There's really no reason they cant work here when they do everywhere else.

Got news for everyone: this town has taco trucks serving non-preportioned tacos. Not too hard to spot/find. They just aren't at Michigan and Wacker at noon with La Cucaracha playing, ice-cream truck style.

Katie wrote:I care about the lack of food trucks in Chicago, but I don't have an alderperson. Who do suburban food truck supporters contact? Not that I am confident that Mayor Daley and the city council want suburb dwellers coming to the city.

Since suburbanites don't reside in, vote in or pay taxes to the city (other than sales tax), I'm guessing our opinions are largely irrelevant in this instance -- especially because we're talking about actual legislation that's being considered. We are merely part of the 'popular groundswell of support.' I'd love to see food trucks all over the city but definitely 'nimby.' So, making them legal in the city seems perfect to me.

Do the restrictive laws that are currently in place really make Chicago a better place for its residents -- and a safer place than cities where food trucks are legal? I don't buy that for a minute.

=R=

Sales tax, you'd think they'd want the sales tax ... according to the Cook County Board they're dying for it.

Not to mention, someone from the collar counties is probably not going to drive into Chicago just to pay $3.85 to get a sandwich at a food truck and drive back home. They're probably going to spend hours in the city and spend money on several things, including parking.

Katie wrote:Sales tax, you'd think they'd want the sales tax ... according to the Cook County Board they're dying for it.

I'm all for food trucks (and against beating up puppies, for the record), but the sales tax argument is a non-starter. If I buy lunch from a food truck, I'm diverting money from some other place where I'd buy lunch. Sales tax collected by the food truck is sales tax not collected by the brick-and-mortar restaurant/store.

Darren72 wrote: Sales tax collected by the food truck is sales tax not collected by the brick-and-mortar restaurant/store.

Well, isn't that true of all food truck income, and isn't that why there are restrictions in the proposed legislation on food trucks being located near brick-and-mortar restaurants? From the city's point of view, isn't the sales tax revenue the same whether it's from a food truck or a restaurant? Or are you saying people will typically spend more (and pay more sales tax) at a brick-and-mortar place?

Katie wrote:

Darren72 wrote: Sales tax collected by the food truck is sales tax not collected by the brick-and-mortar restaurant/store.

Well, isn't that true of all food truck income, and isn't that why there are restrictions in the proposed legislation on food trucks being located near brick-and-mortar restaurants? From the city's point of view, isn't the sales tax revenue the same whether it's from a food truck or a restaurant? Or are you saying people will typically spend more (and pay more sales tax) at a brick-and-mortar place?

I'm saying that if the city were to allow food trucks, the additional sales tax from these trucks would be roughly offset by a reduction in sales tax collected from brick-and-mortar places. So the net effect is that the city would not collect additional sales tax. There may be many good reasons for us to have food trucks, but increasing sales tax revenue is not one of them.

Let me give you an example: I might walk to a corner restaurant to buy lunch today. Let's say the restaurant would collect 50 cents in sales tax from me. If tomorrow there were a food truck outside, I might eat there instead. The truck would then collect my 50 cents in sales tax. Either way, the city collects 50 cents per day from me, whether I have lunch at a restaurant or from a truck.

There may be subtle differences in the taxes collected by food trucks verses restaurants. For example, if the average meal in a food truck costs less than the average meal that would have been eaten in a restaurant, then sales tax revenue would actually go down.

I'm all for food trucks, but there are some pretty obvious downsides. Trucks pollute, take up street space, block bike lanes, take biz and reduce tax revenue from more expensive, rent-paying brick and mortar businesses. Don't get me wrong, as I'd like to have a frontier chicken paratha option within 10 yards of my Loop workplace, rather than a choice among Quizno's and a crappy but cool looking generic office lobby waygu slider bar. Chicago's Loop has some seriously spacious sidewalks, so I'm more down with the carts too.

Darren72 wrote:

Katie wrote:

Darren72 wrote: Sales tax collected by the food truck is sales tax not collected by the brick-and-mortar restaurant/store.

Well, isn't that true of all food truck income, and isn't that why there are restrictions in the proposed legislation on food trucks being located near brick-and-mortar restaurants? From the city's point of view, isn't the sales tax revenue the same whether it's from a food truck or a restaurant? Or are you saying people will typically spend more (and pay more sales tax) at a brick-and-mortar place?

I'm saying that if the city were to allow food trucks, the additional sales tax from these trucks would be roughly offset by a reduction in sales tax collected from brick-and-mortar places. So the net effect is that the city would not collect additional sales tax. There may be many good reasons for us to have food trucks, but increasing sales tax revenue is not one of them.

That’s a good point to the extent that there’s an either/or lunch option: either I buy lunch at a restaurant or I buy lunch from a food truck. But I think food trucks might also sell food to people who might not otherwise buy lunch anywhere. Personal case in point: I find myself at Navy Pier several times a year when I go to the WBEZ studios, usually right around lunch time, late morning or early afternoon. Now, I work at home and I usually eat at home before I go down to Navy Pier because I know the options at the pier are suck-o. If, however, I had the opportunity to eat some of Foss’ Meaty Balls or Maroni’s Nann-wiches, I might opt to pass on a home lunch and have lunch from one of the trucks. By extension, all the people who work at the pier must get very tired of the available options, and I’m sure many bring their lunches – if there were an interesting (and perhaps even rotating) selection of trucks or carts, I’m guessing those people, too, would elect to buy (and pay taxes on) lunch. In that way, food trucks might increase city tax revenues.

Yes, David, you are correct. I thought about including another paragraph about people who switch from making lunch at home to eating in trucks. Buying food in a grocery store carries a lower tax rate than buying food in a restaurant. But I figured that this group is relatively small compared to people who would switch from a restaurant to a truck, and so I didn't bother to write about that. Similarly, some people might choose to buy from a truck within the city or country, rather than buy from a restaurant outside of the city/county. This would also increase tax revenue. My main point is that tax revenues aren't going to change much one way or the other (even though there are theoretical reasons they could grow or shrink a little).

Da Beef wrote:I like it for the idea that it will allow younger people and others who cant or don't want to risk it all with renting a restaurant space, will be able to start off with a truck, build a following and then get a spot somewhere in the city, which is good for all sides. ...Well I'd be willing to bet that most of the trucks will be from current popular restaurants around town because they could use the "we already run a clean restaurant that always passes inspection" etc...arguments and I dont want that, just trucks from places we already have. As far as taking away business, well I say let them park in front of any fast food chain they want and maybe they cant be within 50 feet of an open restaurant/eating spot or something to that effect. There's really no reason they cant work here when they do everywhere else.

I agree 100% with this sentiment (being about 300 feet away from the Chicago border, my opinion probably doesn't count,) but I'm concerned that this isn't going to be the case - in an earlier discussion, wasn't it mentioned that carts and trucks need to have a licensed base of operation (not to mention the access to restrooms issue?) This would mean, unfortunately, that many of the carts without a restaurant space would be illegal. I suppose at least it might mean that the base station could be in a less expensive neighborhood...maybe Khan's could get a truck...