What do you know about meat?

My question is to get enlightened about buying meat. I have friends that go to great lengths to get meat from various stores but I am wondering if really much supermarket meat we buy is different except for price and packaging. My perception is that when we go to a supermarket such as Jewel, or Dominicks, we are buying "mass produced" meat from large industrial scale type operations and the meat overall at one store is not really that different from another. IN the end, the meat at Jewel, Dominicks, Ultra, and Aldi are pretty much the same in terms of quality. They might in fact be from the same places. I imagine there are a limited number of large producers feeding meat products to these stores. I think the meat at Whole Foods and Costco is a little bit better than the others but I am really wondering. Other folks swear by going to an independent butcher for their goods, or to an independent grocery store such as the Blue Goose in St. Charles to get meat. So I am asking what the real differences are in quality in meats from these various places, and where is the best meat, short of buying from a farmer? Pls advise.

Just to get the ball rolling, lamb and beef are graded according to fat content, and age (I think.) There is also an aging process that can be preferential among consumers (dry vs wet aged.) Also, there is grain fed vs grass fed, as well as hormone free vs anything goes. Chickens, turkeys and piggies don't have as many exceptions, I don't think. But, when you're dealing with Dom VS Jewel - I think for the most part, you're getting choice grade, grain fed, anything goes beef. (Previously, they were mainly peddling select grade - I think it was only in the last year or so that they started marketing choice grade.) I don't pay too much attention to Ultra beef, but I normally only see select grade there. Costco mostly has choice and prime. Whole foods - not too sure, my guess is that they are selling "hormone free" grass or grain fed choice and / or prime. Butchers, not very sure, either. I don't eat beef at home too much, and I'm kinda happy with my choice skirt steak form my Mexican markets, and maybe I should turn in my card, but my Dominicks sells some really good, inch and a half thick, choice grade top sirloins, that I stock my freezer with when they go 2.99/lb.
If I'm having company / family over for grilling, it's usually one of those beef choices or some kinda pork product on the smoker.

I would love to buy all my meat directly from local farmers and butcher the animals myself, but I don't have that kind of money, so I buy from many different sources. I try to get locally produced meat anytime I'm making a dish where the taste of the meat really shines through, and I'll use mass produced meats for dishes with heavier spicing and added flavors.

About half of the meat that I buy is mass-produced. I gave up on Jewel/Dominick etc. long ago and mostly buy from Costco, Restaurant Depot, and Peoria Packing. The difference in quality is significant to me. Some things to look out for in supermarket mass produced meat is things like pork in a saline solution. Most pork I see at supermarkets is packed with a salt solution that makes it too salty for my tastes, and can also give the meat a mushy texture. Costco and Restaurant Depot also sell meats like this at times, so always check the packaging. Supermarkets also tend to do a poor job of cutting their meat, they're more concerned about hitting a packaging size than making a decent cut of meat and it shows. Buying large primal cuts and dividing them yourself will get you much better results.

The other half of my meat purchases are a mix of local butchers, farmers' markets, and whole animals from farms. I'm a big fan of Butcher and Larder, Paulina Market, Slagel Farms, Mint Creek Farms, and a few others.

The benefits of a real butchers shop are:
- You can tell them what you're making and let them select the meat for you. You can learn a lot from talking to them about what they're doing and why.
- Their business survives by selling quality meat. They put much more attention into selecting quality animals than a buyer who is purchasing animals by the thousands for a chain (even if the butcher isn't buying farm raised animals). Many also don't have the pressure of having to keep EVERYTHING in stock. If they can't get quality sheep that day, then no lamb. I think a good butcher would rather run out of an item than buy poor quality meat.
- The selection is infinitely larger than that at a supermarket, and you can learn about different cuts.

The benefit of buying farm raised meats is primarily the quality and freshness. Pork tastes "porkier", beef tastes "beefier", etc. I prefer to buy farmed meat that hasn't been frozen, I think it has an impact on the texture. Pork is the meat that I think shows the most pronounced difference between factory and farm raised. Factory hogs have been bred to be so lean that they've lost their taste, I also think that pork reflects the taste of the animal's feed more than any other animal. I always try to buy a whole foraging hog in late fall/early summer after they've been eating acorns for a month or two - you can taste it. The River Cottage Meat Book is a good place to start to learn more about cuts of meat.

You should try to do some head to head comparisons to understand the differences, buy some pork chops from a local producer and then from Jewel/Dominicks. Prepare them together in exactly the same way, with a simple preparation (i.e. grill with S+P, an herb or two, and EVOO). Eat them at the same time. It will be an eye opening experience.

Seebee describes the grading system well - it is basically fat marbling and physiological age of the animal. I think it is a useful thing to look at if you're buying something like a rib eye steak, but is less useful for a large number of cuts (assuming it is at least choice or prime). For some dishes I prefer older animals, and actually try to buy only mutton instead of lamb.

Attrill wrote:I would love to buy all my meat directly from local farmers and butcher the animals myself, but I don't have that kind of money

Our solution is to buy (and eat) less meat of higher quality.

I enjoy meat and feel that if I go without my body aches for that kind of protein, but I also know that I frequently eat too much of it. We buy hamburger meat from Costco now again (I think it's grass-fed, FWIW), but our chickens come from Genesis Growers and the pork from Valerie Rock (the Mulefoot Madame). If I want a good steak, I order it in a restaurant, where the quality is usually going to be very high (had some A5 Wagyu at Sixteen last week: incredibly lush, flavorful, almost otherworldly beef).

David Hammond wrote:

Attrill wrote:I would love to buy all my meat directly from local farmers and butcher the animals myself, but I don't have that kind of money

Our solution is to buy (and eat) less meat of higher quality.

Yeah, we limit our meat eating on a day to day basis, and the majority of that meat is local. I tend to cook for large crowds pretty frequently, and buying ribs for 20+ plus people means going to Peoria Packing instead of the farmers' market.

Steak is actually one thing I VERY rarely order when I'm out. The price difference between a good steak at a restaurant and some good steak aged at home is usually too much for me to justify to myself (unless it's Burke's or something).

I usually only order steak in a restaurant. Only exception is in the summer when it can be grilled.

I still can't quite figure out where most of our meat comes from and whether its mostly all the same or really different. Certainly the special stuff that is mentioned here in this thread is different if it came from a farm. I guess the way I cook I can' t really tell because its usually in some kind of a sauce or something....I'll have to pay attention this summer when we grill and see what the differences are. I did know a farmer that was growing his own chickens but he wanted twelve dollars a bird.

To throw a possible wrench into the gears:

Does anybody have any experience of the beef available @ Target (gasp!)?

Like most, I am eating significantly less beef these days and tend to buy from B & L or Paulina Market rather than the generic stuff available @ Jewel/Dominick's. I typically shy away from their cuts as they are way too thin (and red). I very rarely see a one and a half inch steak at these places. On a quick cruise through Target's 'fridges it seemed that their steaks were cut significantly bigger. Other than that it seems to be the same mass produced product I can get at the standard outlets.

A good read on the beef grading system....http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/1279/beef-grades Learn something new every day!

Hey what about Halal?

any of our Muslim brothers reading this who can compare beef products from say a place like http://wholeearthmeats.com/ or Sahar http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=45637 compared to a regular grocery store's meats?

Cbot wrote:A good read on the beef grading system....http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/1279/beef-grades Learn something new every day!

That page includes this quote: "Moderate, Modest and Small [marbling] correlate with the three levels of Choice beef."

What are the three levels of Choice beef called?

Until a couple of weeks ago, I thought there was Prime, and there was Choice, and there was Select, and that was that. I didn't know that within these classifications there were subdivisions. But at Whole Foods, buying some strip steaks and hoping to find Prime, the butcher guy told me they only had Choice, but it was the highest level of Choice. I neglected to find out from him (for future reference) what the name of the highest level of Choice is--but this thread seems like the place to find out.

riddlemay wrote:Until a couple of weeks ago, I thought there was Prime, and there was Choice, and there was Select, and that was that. I didn't know that within these classifications there were subdivisions. But at Whole Foods, buying some strip steaks and hoping to find Prime, the butcher guy told me they only had Choice, but it was the highest level of Choice. I neglected to find out from him (for future reference) what the name of the highest level of Choice is--but this thread seems like the place to find out.

I think this guy doesn't really understand the system. He might be referring to the age ratings that are taken into account at the time of grading, or maybe the yield grade - but there are no sub-divisions that I've ever heard of. He may be saying that it is an animal that was under 30 months old, but that is a part of setting the grade, not a subdivision or separate grade. He also may have personally felt that the marbling was close to Prime.

Overall I've stopped caring about USDA grades - you can see the marbling with your eyes, and you can tell if it is white or yellow (you want whiter, but some yellow isn't the end of the world). Older cattle with the same amount of marbling as a younger Prime animal will get bumped down to choice, or even Select. I actually prefer an older animal with good marbling. Just forget the grade and look at the marbling.

kenji wrote:Hey what about Halal?
any of our Muslim brothers reading this who can compare beef products from say a place like http://wholeearthmeats.com/ or Sahar http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=45637 compared to a regular grocery store's meats?

I'm not Muslim, but I buy from Sahar II a few times a year. Their beef, lamb, and goat is in a different league than supermarket chains, and generally a notch or two above Costco, Peoria, etc. They do a great job of choosing their animals (or suppliers). I'm not sure if the extra attention given to selecting Halal animals plays a role, but I can see how it could. Any time I've bought Halal it has been from a small shop, and it has always been above supermarket purchases. But since they're small shops it's hard to tell if the better quality is just from a shop owner caring about what they're selling vs. Halal.

No, there are definitely higher and lower sub-grades.

Prime+ is the highest USDA grade, Prime° has slightly less than Prime+, and Prime- is the lowest that can still be called USDA prime. Same goes for choice (+/°/-). Select has +/- and Standard goes back to +/°/-.

Each of these grades corresponds to the marbling chart linked upthread. Moderately Abundant = prime°, Moderate = choice+.

So WF is buying choice+ from their supplier.

To get things even more confusing: within each of those categories, the amount of marbling is specified further. So it won't just be "Moderately Abundant", but it'll be "Moderately Abundant 30" or "Moderately Abundant 90", the latter being nearly as well marbled as Prime+.

gleam wrote:No, there are definitely higher and lower sub-grades...To get things even more confusing: within each of those categories, the amount of marbling is specified further. So it won't just be "Moderately Abundant", but it'll be "Moderately Abundant 30" or "Moderately Abundant 90", the latter being nearly as well marbled as Prime+.

Extrapolating from this, it sounds like the difference between prime- and choice+ could be subtle indeed. Which conforms to what the Whole Foods guy told me. (Paraphrasing, "Truthfully, I like our choice strip steaks better than some primes.")

Attrill wrote:Overall I've stopped caring about USDA grades - you can see the marbling with your eyes, and you can tell if it is white or yellow (you want whiter, but some yellow isn't the end of the world). Older cattle with the same amount of marbling as a younger Prime animal will get bumped down to choice, or even Select. I actually prefer an older animal with good marbling. Just forget the grade and look at the marbling.

Is yellow fat an indication of maturity of the animal?
Also, I have a Mexican mkt by me that routinely sells big, fat, utility grade ribeyes for dirt cheap. I bought some about 6 years ago to try. I grilled em up, and had an unpleasant aftermath. I've been scared of them ever since. Last time I looked at them, the marbling made them look like prime steaks, and I contemplated buying a few. When you say you like an older animal with good marbling, do you consider utility grade for purchase?

I don't know anything about the Halal meats. Will have to check into that, there is a small market near route 83 (aka Cal Sag Road) and Harlem in Palos Heights that sells Halal meats. Its a few doors down from Al Basha.

I'm going to do the same over here.

I'm going to try a ribeye cookoff same evening test:

My local market, Family Fruit Market (my go to local place for pretty OK meat, they have Dutch Farm product they slice down for their butcher case).

Bryn Mawr Produce, my kinda local Korean grocery store/produce (has better than Jewel quality, not sure his purveyor).

A Halal butcher.

All of the above places are within the geographic confines of my normal weekly travels, not a "special drive to destination", which is how I normally shop.

My normal fast dinner mode during the week is:

Make a cocktail or two then, sprinkle Adobo and crushed black pepper on meat, cast iron skillet red hot, sear the crap out of it to a rare or medium rare state, let it sit for about 3-5 minutes on a warm plate under a lid, then serve with a salad or sauteed spinach/garlic.

seebee wrote:Is yellow fat an indication of maturity of the animal?

Pretty sure it's just like eggs -- yolk color/fat color is tied to the amount of beta carotene in the animal's diet. Yellow fat, then, is probably more of a sign of being grass fed than age.

gleam wrote:No, there are definitely higher and lower sub-grades.

Thanks! I've never seen any marks other than the basic grades, are they marked on the meat or animals at all?

I'm not sure exactly what causes yellow fat, and like I said some yellow is not bad. It might be better to describe what I look for as white or "clear yellow" as opposed to a junky yellow that I saw on an old dairy cowe a friend of mine slaughtered. I have some hunks of beef fat from B and L that I'd definitely consider white fat.

no, not marked on the carcass at all as far as I know. I think it's more a situation of the processor binning each carcass into the sub-grades and then letting large-scale customers request everything they receive come from that category. but I honestly don't know.

="gleam"_________________
Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

That some very nice food porn.

Are you doing the selective focus in post production or is that happening when you shoot? Nice unsharp masking going on too. Also for some of the work it looks like you are dining with a lightstand and a strobe off to the side as a keylight or traveling with a reflector and an assistant as you eat and point your camera.

Do you have an entourage as you masticate?

kenji wrote:
Are you doing the selective focus in post production or is that happening when you shoot? Nice unsharp masking going on too.

I'm guessing he has a pretty good camera and knows how to use it.

kenji wrote:

="gleam"_________________
Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

That some very nice food porn.

Are you doing the selective focus in post production or is that happening when you shoot? Nice unsharp masking going on too. Also for some of the work it looks like you are dining with a lightstand and a strobe off to the side as a keylight or traveling with a reflector and an assistant as you eat and point your camera.

Do you have an entourage as you masticate?

thanks!

no selective focus in post production and no added light, just fast lenses fairly wide open

bean wrote:To throw a possible wrench into the gears:

Does anybody have any experience of the beef available @ Target (gasp!)?

Yes. It's so-so. My problem with it is that it's injected with a flavor-enhancing solution. I grilled it up, bit into it, and immediately went scrambling through the garbage to read the label, because it tasted and had the mouthfeel of meat that had been watered up. Sure enough, "enhanced with up to 15% solution." It actually didn't occur to me that they would do this to steaks, too. I generally religiously read the label for this in pork and chicken products, but wouldn't have thought to check on beef.

For beef, I just go to Costco. (Or Fox & Obel or Ziers if I'm treating myself to a special steak). For pork, I like the Mexican-targeted groceries in my area (Pete's Market, Cermak Produce, etc.) or Peoria Packing. For lamb, I hit the groceries in Bridgeview, or there's also a Halal butcher on 63rd and about Central Park. For chicken, I don't really care and I just get it anywhere.

I spend enough money as it is on food, and I go out to eat only once a week on average; for me, the price premium for premium meat is not worth it for my standard day-to-day cooking. When I buy meat, I try to keep it at under $5/lb, unless I'm getting a nice beef roast or steak or am otherwise treating myself.

Binko wrote:For chicken, I don't really care and I just get it anywhere.

Binko, bro, you got to be kidding?! I've found that paying more for chicken definitely pays off. Whole Foods has chicken that compares well with farmers' market pricing, and not only is the meat so much better but the bones make a stock that is unbelievable.

At Billy's in Oak Park, you can get legs for something like 3 pounds for a buck. No kidding. You do not want to eat that chicken.

I buy meat almost exclusively at Treasure Island and Zier's (bless them for being a half block apart). TI has tremendous lamb, and carries very good chicken, several grades/brands of beef, including Tallgrass. and bison.

Marketplace on Oakton has a nice selection of meat/high-end poultry, too. They also always have ground veal on hand, which is increasingly hard to find.

David Hammond wrote:

Binko wrote:For chicken, I don't really care and I just get it anywhere.

Binko, bro, you got to be kidding?! I've found that paying more for chicken definitely pays off.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying paying more doesn't yield better chicken. Factory farmed chicken is flavorless. I just don't care enough about chicken to pay the premium.

At Billy's in Oak Park, you can get legs for something like 3 pounds for a buck. No kidding. You do not want to eat that chicken.

I'm fine with it. At Pete's they run specials for chicken pinwheels or leg quarters at something like $0.49 a pound every so often. You know what? It tastes fine. It's chicken. It's no worse than the $1.49/lb leg quarters you get anywhere else. Now, if you jump a price level to $3+/lb, there is a noticeable difference, but whether you're paying $0.49/lb or $1.49/lb, it's all generic chicken, so why not go for the cheapest option if, like me, you simply don't care.

North Ave. Fresh Market in Oak Park does the 50 cent/lb chicken leg quarters and they ain't bad. No where near as good as John's but definitely edible.

Binko wrote:so why not go for the cheapest option if, like me, you simply don't care.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

David Hammond wrote:

Binko wrote:so why not go for the cheapest option if, like me, you simply don't care.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

Don't be sorry. Surely, I can't be the only person who doesn't care about the quality of certain foods, but does others, and has to make an economic cost-benefit analysis of whether the price premium is worthwhile. I don't like spending more than $20/day on food. Chicken is not on my priority list and, yes, I know what a good chicken tastes like, visiting my grandmother's farm in Poland many times as a child. The chicken I don't miss. The eggs, though, I do.

At the end of the day, to answer the OP, this is a very personal decision. Try the different meats, and see if it's worth it to you. For me, in some cases (like Zier's dry-aged steaks), it's worth every last penny for me to splurge. In other cases, I don't find the increase in quality worth the price. For example, Zier's pork shoulder was fantastic but, when I bought it at $3.99/lb, did I really think it better than the $0.99/lb (at the time) pork shoulder I got at Peoria Packing? I personally didn't think so, nor did any of my regular dining companions. Does this make us all rubes? Perhaps, but I'm fine with it. We all have different tastes and priorities.

Pre-LTH days 95% of the meat I was cooking was factory raised.

- Nowdays I buy about 90% of my pork right from the farm, or from other local to me sources. Like others I will not buy any pork that has been enhanced.

- beef is a little harder to source local so far for me, I have started buying grass fed, but typically buy my beef from a local butcher or Caputo's.

- chicken, I avoid Tyson & Purdue, opting for amish chickens.

We eat more pork than any other type of meat, and appreciate the quality we have found by buying local.

The taste difference between local meat and the stuff they sell @ Jewels, Dominicks, Ultra Foods, Costco, Sams, etc. is night and day.

As far as pork goes the added cost of buying local is minimal, unless you go to a boutique butcher who charges $9/lb.(im picky not a sucker).

THe meat I buy for home is a top priority for me, if I am going to do something I am going to do it right, and use the best product available. So it is worth it to me to either plan ahead and order the right meat, or travel to make additional stops to pick-up what I need.

If my option is use meat from Jewel, Dominicks, or some enhanced pork or chicken, or cook something else. I will cook something else rather than half ass it.