Line Cooks

Cathy2 wrote:Extension 720, WGN Radio

Line Cooks
Milt looks in depth at the line cook profession with three vets of the industry: Wayne Cohen, Richard Wolf, and Chuy Valencia
http://www.wgnradio.com/shows/ext720/wg ... 03.mp3file

One of the participants is a former co-owner of Maurice Lenell Cookies.

Maybe this isn't the right thread to post this...but I know Cathy2 will fix that. I was listening to the WGN podcast about line cooks. I was appalled with their pay scale, working conditions, hours and stress levels. I don't know why anyone would do it...except maybe because most of them are Hispanic (fact brought up during the show) and of course the need for money. Apparently the the restaurant industry would collapse without Hispanic line cooks. Yes they are talented. Yes they have great work ethic, but I think they are being totally exploited. The bus people, wait staff, and hostess all make better wages, yet the reputation of the restaurant has it's foundation in what the line cooks crank out. This is a modern day sweatshop, and I find that hard to support.

I'm also grateful to know that Sunday and Mondays dining often get you substandard meals, and mussels are an option best left to restaurants who have a high seafood turnover. Interesting indeed.

If you find that disturbing, you should read Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential. That will really open your eyes to the reality of the restaurant business. Of course, none of that keeps me from eating out multiple times a day.

Stevez, I think I will read that book. I don't know, doesn't this issue bother anyone else? Isn't this similar to factory conditions back in the early 1900's? Are we sweeping this under the rug because the people most affected are Hispanic (perhaps illegal aliens)? At one point during the program a caller talked about Hispanics being paid even less than minimum wage in exchange for housing. Is that legal? I'd like to see the living conditions. To me, this could almost be equated to enjoying food made by slaves. (Over the top?)

As far as housing goes, the speaker was talking about a seasonal country club and that is not all that odd. I had staff in S. Fla that worked summers in the N.E.(our off season) and often had that same deal (along w/their pay). There's very little affordable housing for service personnel in small exclusive areas like Martha's Vineyard or places like Vail.

They are not slaves (anymore than any of us are) and furthermore, the kitchen is a great equalizer. Much more than the rest of society. Most chefs only care if you're good or not. Not where you come from or look like. And yes, immigrants are often the backbone of a kitchen. They often have a work ethic that Americans don't. At least that's what I've found over the last 3 decades. Besides Hispanics, in S. Fla we had a large Haitian community to draw from. Many amazing people that we could not have gotten along without.

Food service in America would come to a standstill without them and their major contributions. Check out the movie "A day without a Mexican". Can you picture a typical suburban teenager doing dishes and arduous grunt work 40-80 hrs a week? They simply don't last and believe me I've tried. If your mom is still making your bed and doing your laundry, the attraction and even more so, the need to work for most just isn't there. There are no easy jobs in a kitchen. Many of my best staff over the yrs have been dishwashers promoted through the ranks. The camaraderie that exists within the kitchen brigade is a thing of beauty, akin to people you've been to war with. It is a war with new battles daily and the survivors are veterans of a sort. This is the type of thing that gets in your blood and that you miss when it's not there. It's one reason people stay in the business.

razbry, I wrote up a response yesterday but decided not to post it. But since you asked...

I haven't listened to the podcast (but I enjoy Milt Rosenberg's show and will try to listen to this one soon). Thanks for posting it.

I have no doubt that some line cooks are treated badly and many of us would feel bad about patronizing some restaurants if we knew more about what went on behind the scenes. But, on the whole, line cooks are not paid badly within the restaurant industry. Yesterday I pulled data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics about the earnings of various jobs within the restaurant and bar industry. These data aren't perfect, but they are the best we have (and, yes, they include tips for those who receive them).

The data show that average hourly earnings within the industry range from about $8.80/hr for dishwashers to a little over $20/hr for chefs/head cooks. Cooks in restaurants make, on average, about $11/hr. Short order cooks make $10/hr. Fast food cooks make about $8.90/hr.

Waiters make about $9.85/hr. Busboys make a little less, about $9/hr.

These are averages and naturally some people make more and others less than the average. But if you look at the highest 10% of each occupation, or the lowest 10 percent of each occupation, the ordering of salaries across occupations is the same.

So the point I'm getting at is that the data don't bear out this idea that line cooks are the lowest paid group in the industry; far from it. The data list 17 separate occupations in the industry; cooks are the 5th highest.

"Exploited" means that they are being taken advantage of or being dealt with unethically. I have no doubt that this happens. But I don't think it is endemic to the industry. Nor do I think, when it does happen, it happens more frequently to line cooks.

In real life I'm a lawyer. I had a case that took place inside a restaurant some years ago. I deposed almost everyone working there. The thing that jumped out at me were the hours. This is a bigger place in the burbs with lunch and dinner as well as banquets. Managers would get there at nine in the morning and leave after ten at night, every day for years. Very little vacation. Line cooks and busboys? They were all smart enough to know nothing but also worked twelve to fourteen hour days.

I could not do it.

I was a line cook for over 10 years when I was in my 20's. Ass kicking work, & alot of fun. But way too many hours, and not enough $$$$ in the end for me. At the places I worked I didnt see folks being taken advantage of, just earning a paycheck.

My schedule 6 days a week @ the end of my professional cooking run.

Job # 1: 6:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m. - worked the line and banquets @ corporate account

Job # 2: 4:00 p.m. - midnight - Line cook @ Rosebud

repeat

pretty glad I work at a desk nowdays, but cooking can always be a fallback which is nice.

I work the line occasionally now and I used to back in the day as well, and although I had a great time it was hell on the legs. I'm also glad I work at a desk but when I get a kitchen job I get so excited. Plus, the grub is usually top notch. There's nothing like working a wedding and getting filet mignon for dinner.

Thanks again for posting this podcast. I listened to it this morning during a long drive. The funny thing is that I came away with a totally different impression that Razbry had: they made working on the line seem like a fun, exciting, and noble impression. Yeah, the work is physically demanding and the pay isn't great. But these guys barely touched on that (I thought the comment about the line cooks being the lowest paid people in the restaurant was actually meant as hyperbole.)

Also, the stuff about not ordering mussels on Monday was brought up in the context of a discussion of Bourdain's book.

Anyways, the interview is wide ranging and very good. Milt Rosenberg is incredible.

Wow, thanks everyone for posting your thoughts.

Darren72 thanks for wage information. I do appreciate your research and thoughts.


Jazzfood, you bring up some really good points about the industry kitchens and how they offer not only equalization but opportunity. It is good to hear of camaraderie and passion that transcends some of the negative aspects of being a line cook.

Pielady and Jimswside...you bring authenticity to the topic because you have walked the walk.

But it was AngrySarah's comment, They were all smart enough to know nothing but also worked twelve to fourteen hour days... that made me remember just how close someone can hold their true thoughts to their chest. My late husband employed many Hispanic employees in his nursery/landscape business. They had the strongest work ethic I've ever seen. They never complained, but then they never really shared about how they felt about anything.

Yes Darren72, the people being interviewed were often upbeat about their job. I just think the piece would have been a bit more authentic if a Hispanic would have been interviewed. It is obvious that Pieland and Jimswside had a choice about where they wanted to work. Sometimes the choice isn't readily available for an individual...and that is when the public, society even unions have to step up. Just my thoughts.

razbry wrote:Yes Darren72, the people being interviewed were often upbeat about their job. I just think the piece would have been a bit more authentic if a Hispanic would have been interviewed. It is obvious that Pieland and Jimswside had a choice about where they wanted to work. Sometimes the choice isn't readily available for an individual...and that is when the public, society even unions have to step up. Just my thoughts.

I don't follow. Are you implying that some are forced to work as line cooks? What do you mean that they don't have a choice about where to work?

I agree that the show would have been more informative if they had a different mix of guests. The show was motivated by a book written by one of the guests (I don't remember his name). He left an ownership position in some food-related business to "start over". Around age 50 he became a line cook and fairly quickly was working in some very good restaurants. It seemed clear in the show that the producer simply asked this guy to suggest two other guests. One was Chuy Valencia, co-owner of Chilam Balam. (He was a great guest - lots of interesting things to say.) The other was someone who worked on the line earlier in his career.

I just think the piece would have been a bit more authentic if a Hispanic would have been interviewed.

If I were a betting man I'd say Chuy Valencia is Hispanic.

Jazzfood wrote:

I just think the piece would have been a bit more authentic if a Hispanic would have been interviewed.

If I were a betting man I'd say Chuy Valencia is Hispanic.

And he, in fact, talked about the whole issue of Hispanics working in restaurants.

Darren72 wrote:The show was motivated by a book written by one of the guests (I don't remember his name). He left an ownership position in some food-related business to "start over". Around age 50 he became a line cook and fairly quickly was working in some very good restaurants.

This is Wayne Cohen, former president and owner of Maurice Lenell, who wrote Cooking On The Line: from Food Lover to Professional Line Cook.

=R=

I'll admit I could be off here. I don't why this issue captivated me. However I have enjoyed the dialog! Thanks!

Line cooks like any other profession get what the market pays, if they were to get 20/hr your dinner would cost substantially more and you would not able dine out even at cheapest places as often as you want. Most line cooks are proud hard workers and happy with their job, as years pass good line cooks like any other field can demand and receive a better pay, some become chefs others open their own restaurants. This always has been the immigration story in this country and it is exactly what makes this country great.

I was going to post what Foodmex echoed about the increase in prices at restaurants and that no one is "exploited." I'm not a lawyer but my assumption is that labor laws are broken in the food industry in order to maintain itself. I may or may not be wrong.

One thing I will add is that I was an admissions rep at 2 culinary schools in Chicago for about 7 years. You can tell some of these kids or adults that they would make maybe $10 an hour if lucky when they graduate if they want to work on the line in a restaurant.

Most of them were shocked. Parents especially when considering the cost of culinary education (outside of community colleges). Many still went ahead and did it. Some regretted it. Others that I still run onto in Chicago absolutely love it.

Many of the students attending were white and middle class. Sure there were some Hispanic students but nowhere near as many that you'd find working in your average restaurant.

Wages for line cooks are driven by market forces, PERIOD.

Many years ago, I was running a hospital food service operation which was unionized. Overall, our wage scale was competitive with the local area and we had NO problem recruiting for various positions. The ONLY exceptions were line cooks where we were at least $1-2 below market. We would interview potential cooks and they would be excited UNTIL we talked money. They would NOT accept a position.

One of our big negotiating points in the next contract is that we wanted to raise the cook's pay to a more competitive rate so we could attract good quality, experienced cooks. The union fought for wage scales where the skilled employees and the less skilled employees were paid similarly.

I can tell you one thing. In a kitchen environment, wages are the MAJOR retention tool. Good employees will leave for as little as 0.25 more per hour. Benefits such as health care MIGHT help retention but that impact is mostly among older employees.