Bobby Flay's "Throwdown"-bit of a rant

This show really rankled me last night. (I know, I spend too much time watching Food Network, but there was no baseball game to watch.) The premise is the Bobby challenges an unknown to make the food specialty of the unkown and has a guest judge to pick a winner.

My problem is that Bobby hand selects these people, then spends an undisclosed amount of time in his "test-kitchen" adding chipotle, etc. to similar recipies to craft his own version of the specialty food. After Bobby is feeling nice and comfortable, Food Network comes up with a ruse to put the unknown in front of the camera and Bobby makes a surprise appearance to challenge such unknown to a "throwdown."

This whole process has a David v. Goliath feel that really got under my skin. The unknown has no chance to prepare, but Bobby has had time in his test kitchen (with two suck-up helpers). What unknown in their right mind would say no put on the spot like that? (I am making of leap of faith here. It is possible that this aspect of the show is staged.)

Last night there was a double episode focusing on chowder and wedding cakes. Bobby won the chowder contest and lost the wedding cake contest. However, in the wedding cake contest, it was closer that it should have been. I am sure Bobby's cake tasted good, but if he showed up to the average overblown wedding with that thing the bride's mother would have "flayed" him.

What gets me really mad is that in the midst of a rant about this and Bobby's shameless self-serving comments, I had to admit that the unknown sure got a lot of exposure and probably the chance of a lifetime to get their name out there. No matter, I still have hard time stomaching the guest judges (I mean, are they really independent? Paid by Food Network?) and more importantly the opening of the show which features Bobby in a black and white throwing a punch at the camera. I mean really, Bobby a tough guy?!

Just more of the Food Network trying to reach a "new" audience. I guess next time there is no baseball game I should watch CNN.

Having watched Flay v. Bayless and Flay v. Burke on the inane Iron Chef America, I'm considering demanding compensation for the loss of two hours, several brain cells, and my meagre faith in televised food competitions.

Having never eaten his food, I feel I can safely say that Bobby Flay's style is "Upscale Applebee's".

I saw the wedding cake ep last night and was glad the "challenger" won. I think she would have had an aneurism otherwise -- "You thought THAT piece of overadorned s**t was better than MY cake ??" (which truly was amazing looking -- can't vouch for the taste, obviously).

As you said, however, she got tons of pub either way. I bet she's booked solid for the forseeable future if she wasn't already.

gleam wrote:Having never eaten his food, I feel I can safely say that Bobby Flay's style is "Upscale Applebee's".

I think it's probably more accurate to say that Applebee's is downscale Bobby Flay. I did eat in one of his NY restaurants once, many years ago, and I remember thinking that as long as you're of a mind to enjoy dishes that are heavily sauced, kicked up and aggressive, he's actually a very talented chef. In some ways, I think he's a victim of his own success in the sense that he and his ilk have spawned a wave of similiarly minded low-end grub that makes it hard to take his stuff on its own. So, foodwise, I wouldn't say I hold him in especially high regard, but I can't deny that he makes some pretty damn tasty dishes.

That said, he strikes me as a total jackass

JeffB wrote:Having watched Flay v. Bayless and Flay v. Burke on the inane Iron Chef America, I'm considering demanding compensation for the loss of two hours, several brain cells, and my meagre faith in televised food competitions.

Or take Flay v. Morou, which aired last night. The judges were positively gushing and drooling over everything the challenger made, but then during the scoring, Flay absolutely kicked the challenger's arse in the "taste" portion. Of course, Bobby went on to win. Huh? Watching Iron Chef America, you would think that Bobby is the best chef in the country as challenger after challenger appear to please the judges, make no missteps, only for Bobby to ultimately win in the end. I sense a fix.

The "unknown" in the wedding cake episode was about ready to throwdown Bobby if she lost. In the beginning, she thought, "pshaw, yeah right, Bobby doing wedding cakes, I'll take that challenge." But then she became increasingly nervous as the so-called "judges" commented numerous times as to how Bobby's cake "looked" like you'd want to dive into it. I think she was beginning to think that she might be the victim of a fix in exchange for publicity. Of course, getting beat by a Tex-Mex chef who doesn't bake, I'm not sure how good that publicity would be, unless you subscribe to the school of "any publicity is good publicity."

It was a lot closer than it should be.

Considering that I've never had a piece of wedding cake at every wedding I've been to in the last several years, it is clear that cakes are there primarily for photographs, not eating. That's not to say that a wedding cake can't taste good, but at these weddings, the wedding cake was not served as dessert and offered instead in unappetizing wax packets on a table as the guests filed out. Bobby's cake would have given rise to a lawsuit because look-wise, it was pretty ugly. Or as Bobby put it, "rustic."

I preferred Flay's earlier shows: Grilling & Chilling, and uh, the one with the woman sidekick. Mainly because on neither of those shows was he able to get away with too much attitude without eye rolling or some pretty harsh ribbing.

And if he fries quail eggs atop one more dish on Iron Chef America, I swear he's going to start getting hate mail. Not every meal needs to include brunch.

I don't intend for "Upscale Applebee's" to mean I think his food tastes bad. I suspect I'd love his food, since I do really like aggressively flavored dishes.

I meant, rather, that he uses a lot of the same techniques... safe preparations of safe meats, usually with sweetness and some frying involved, prepared in a way that you think they're exotic.

Between the fried and the fat and the salt and the sweet, Flay and Applebee's are bribing you. Flay just does it with higher quality ingredients and more refined technique.

Oh, and I think his best show is/was Boy Meets Grill. Since he didn't have anyone to interact with except the camera, he couldn't be nearly as much of a jackass. For the same reasons, I think Emeril was tolerable when he still hosted Essence of Emeril, especially the earlier episodes.

I hafta say, though I don't believe it was the intention, I do kind of enjoy having an Iron Chef Evil to root against

I totally understand those of you who find Bobby Flay to be too full of himself. But I've reproduced a number of the things he's made on his Boy at his Grill show and they're pretty tasty.

I also think that he does a fine job on his travel show talking to the folks at the places he visits. He seems game to try anything and when he likes something, man, he's not afraid to tell you.

I think the Iron Chef thing is also about a projected character -- they're supposed to be IRON CHEFS! and humility isn't really part of that for the most part. I've seen it from all of them. Even Cat Cora.

However...if you force me to watch food tv and give me the choice of Flay or Ray -- I'll take Flay anytime. Rachael Ray -- man...now there's someone I really want to strangle. And dear god, Emeril? That man has no vocabulary anymore -- just a set page or two of colorful phrases that he repeats over and over as often as he can.


My .02....

shannon

gleam wrote:Between the fried and the fat and the salt and the sweet, Flay and Applebee's are bribing you. Flay just does it with higher quality ingredients and more refined technique.

Oh, and I think his best show is/was Boy Meets Grill. Since he didn't have anyone to interact with except the camera, he couldn't be nearly as much of a jackass. For the same reasons, I think Emeril was tolerable when he still hosted Essence of Emeril, especially the earlier episodes.

Amen on both counts.

On Flay, I think that pretty much hits it on the head.

On Emeril, at the risk of drifting, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Essence was actually a good show that kepts his schtick at a fairly refreshing and amusing level. I mean, it seems to have worked out just fine for him and FoodTV, but in terms of the quality of the show I think giving that man a live audience was the worst thing they could have possibly done. I tell people that and they think I'm nuts, but I think it's because he didn't really break megabig until the live show, so hardly anybody's seen the original.

Of course, this can easily be brought full circle to bring us back to the topic at hand, which is FoodTV's compulsion to turn their male chefs into braying idiots. Or, as the case may be, unlocking the braying idiots within their male chefs, take your pick. It's no secret that the current execs there have suddenly decided they want to be Spike TV. I believe "absolutely no professional chefs" was the phrase Sara Moulton used upon her departure to describe their current "talent" searches.

It's sad, because there were a few years in there where they really had something special going. It's a shame to watch the new management slowly destroy that channel.

You guys crack me up!

I watched the Flay vs. Morou battle and did anyone notice his stats?
9 wins, FIVE losses and TWO ties. In my opinion, old-school Chairman Kaga would have pulled a lever and sent Flay straight into the shark tank for a record like that!

My husband said during the episode, just watch, Flay's going to do a "deconstructed pea soup". Sure enough, he was right! Serrano ham chip in place of the ham bone and there you are.

I totally agree about those damn quail eggs. Brunch, indeed!

gleam wrote:Having never eaten his food, I feel I can safely say that Bobby Flay's style is "Upscale Applebee's".

While I'm no fan of the pretentious Bobby Flay, I have to say that I had a really outstanding meal at Mesa Grill in NYC a few years back. I had perfectly cooked pork loin topped with a chipotle chile sauce that just sung every note of the chipotle scale. BF was working the room that day and he seemed a little more personable in the flesh than he is on TV. Of course that was when he was Bobby Flay, before he became BOBBY FLAY®.

Dmnkly wrote:I believe "absolutely no professional chefs" was the phrase Sara Moulton used upon her departure to describe their current "talent" searches.

But then she was fired, so she might have an axe to grind.

The winners of the two "Next Food Network Stars" series have all been professional chefs.

earthlydesire wrote:I think the Iron Chef thing is also about a projected character -- they're supposed to be IRON CHEFS! and humility isn't really part of that for the most part. I've seen it from all of them. Even Cat Cora.

Perhaps it's the American aspect, but I always got a sense of humility from the Japanese Iron Chefs (except for Morimoto, of course): Chen Kenichi is positively humble and self-denigrating, and the master, Sakai (I wish I had the 20,000 experience hours in knife skills he's got under his belt) would be proud, but never boastful.

Mario Batali started out more humble, more Chen-like. I still don't find him arrogant on the show, it's more of a back-and-forth banter with Alton, but he does come across as a "High Authority" on occasion.

In the first throwdown which was BBQ, Bobby got beat. I think Bobby also got beat in a pizza challnge he did too. Last night, I thought the chowder episode was good. While Bobby did win, I think the other guy had a better product. I was impressed when the guy pulled out the live eel, and said to keep the camera on.

I'm pretty sure the arrogance and grandstanding is part of the act. You can't succeed at the level the Food Network stars do without a strong ego. There's nothing wrong with a strong ego. Mario, Bobby, and some of the others have strong personalities which has a lot to do with their success. Charlie Trotter has one as most successful people do. Even some on this board. We don't see them because they aren't putting on the show, or they may not be quite as outgoing.

Let's get realistic, the Food Network is a lot more about entertainment, which is where the money is. They do provide entertainment for many people.

Bruce wrote:Let's get realistic, the Food Network is a lot more about entertainment, which is where the money is. They do provide entertainment for many people.

Well, I think that's just the problem. FoodTV wasn't always a lot more about entertainment. For a good while there, they were less about entertainment and more about education. Personally, I preferred that and I watched all the time. That's probably the minority opinion, at least outside this board, but there's been a distinct shift in focus over the past few years. I certainly can't blame them if it's more profitable, but I still think it's unfortunate.

I worked with a guy who went to FCI with Flay. The investors of Mesa grill actually came to FCI looking for a recently graduated young "face' for their restaurant when it was in its planning stages. Flay was the choice based on marketing ability rather than kitchen ability.

He has always been backed at Mesa with a strong contingent of talented chefs who have yet to fail to deliver a well executed meal to me in numerous dining experiences there over 12-13 years.

My friend has confirmed that Bobby is exactly the jackass that he portrays on television in everyday life. He was in the right place at the right time where Mesa was concerned and he has leveraged that opportunity well.

I will say, that in eating at Mesa both before the beginning of Food Network and to the present, I have never seen Flay in the kitchen.

But, I do continue to have fine meals there with my most recent being in March. The concept is a little dated. But trhe execution odf the kitchen is still pretty flawless in my experience. Frankly, the place is atill packed nearly every night of the week.

Bob S. wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:I believe "absolutely no professional chefs" was the phrase Sara Moulton used upon her departure to describe their current "talent" searches.

But then she was fired, so she might have an axe to grind.

The winners of the two "Next Food Network Stars" series have all been professional chefs.

When was she fired and where did she say this? I would like to see that interview.

khm99 wrote:You guys crack me up!

I watched the Flay vs. Morou battle and did anyone notice his stats?
9 wins, FIVE losses and TWO ties. In my opinion, old-school Chairman Kaga would have pulled a lever and sent Flay straight into the shark tank for a record like that!

I was just wondering: what's Kat Kora's record? I don't watch the show but remember her from other shows on FN, including the instensely gormless show she did with Rocco Dis-Spiritoed about 'Mediterranean' cooking. Her ascension to the lofty post of "Iron Chef" remains one of the great mysteries of the decade, to be sure... or is it just that I have mistakenly thought that Iron Chefs are supposed to be knoweldgeable and good cooks?

Then again, I much prefer her to Raehchill Raeh and Giada "o Capitone" DeLaurentis...

As for Bobby Flay, well...



As time goes by, I appreciate Sarah Moulton more and more...

Antonius

Cat Cora's record is a whopping 3 wins, 2 losses.

Morimoto's, on the other hand, is 4-5-1. So she's losing the race to the bottom.

Cora's problem is that since no one really knows who she is, or what she does, or why she's an Iron Chef, no one ever wants to challenge her. Was she thrown in to appeal to women, or what?

Iron Chef Stats can be found here. Bobby flay is the most challenged chef with 12. His record is also the best with and 8-4-2. Batali is 8-4. There's a reason other chef's choose to compete against him.

My favorite thing about the Morou ICA episode was the look in the new Chairman's eyes when he shouted, with such bravado, "FROZEN PEAS!"

He was so self aware of how stupid he sounded, it was fantastic.

I know this won't come as a shock to anyone, but the chairman in ICA is an actor from Hawaii completely unrelated to the (much better) Chairman Kaga.

gleam wrote:Cat Cora's record is a whopping 3 wins, 2 losses.

Morimoto's, on the other hand, is 4-5-1. So she's losing the race to the bottom.

Perhaps the records indicate ability inversely and Cora is perhaps not too bad... I did see a little bit of one episode of Iron Chef when she and her opponent were making, I think, hamburgers... Her stuff looked tasty, though the whole competition seemed absurd to me.

What is her title? Iron chef 'Greco-Arkansan'?* (rhetorical question)

Antonius

* She is of Greek ancestry and from Arkansas -- I remember her saying that (repeatedly) on the old show she was on.

Also for reference, here are the records of all of the Iron Chef (Japan) chefs:

* Iron Chef Chinese Chen Kenichi (陳建一) 67-22-3
* Iron Chef French (I) Yutaka Ishinabe (石鍋裕) 7-1-0
* Iron Chef French (II) Hiroyuki Sakai (坂井宏行) 70-15-1
* Iron Chef Italian Masahiko Kobe (神戸勝彦) 15-7-1
* Iron Chef Japanese (I) Rokusaburo Michiba (道場六三郎) 32-5-1
* Iron Chef Japanese (II) Koumei Nakamura (中村孝明) 24-11-1
* Iron Chef Japanese (III) Masaharu Morimoto (森本正治) 16-7-1


Kobe and Morimoto are the ones Kaga was always disappointed in, and their records are better than Flay/Batali's.

I'm really looking forward to Homaro Cantu's battle

My favorite bit of trivia about Takeshi Kaga (the actor who played Chairman Kaga):

"While with the company, he played the role of Jesus in the Japanese stage production of Jesus Christ Superstar (1976), and role of Tony in West Side Story (1977)."

I'm loving the mental images.

bnowell724 wrote:

Bob S. wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:I believe "absolutely no professional chefs" was the phrase Sara Moulton used upon her departure to describe their current "talent" searches.

But then she was fired, so she might have an axe to grind.

The winners of the two "Next Food Network Stars" series have all been professional chefs.

When was she fired and where did she say this? I would like to see that interview.

I didn't see the interview Dmnkly saw, so I can't help there, but I believe her show was canceled a couple of years ago. I'll see if I can find a real date later today.

gleam wrote:My favorite thing about the Morou ICA episode was the look in the new Chairman's eyes when he shouted, with such bravado, "FROZEN PEAS!"

He was so self aware of how stupid he sounded, it was fantastic.

I know this won't come as a shock to anyone, but the chairman in ICA is an actor from Hawaii completely unrelated to the (much better) Chairman Kaga.

I knew he was an actor...he used to pop up all over the place pre-ICA...but, I coulda sworn in the promo for each episode of ICA that they say he's Kaga's cousin or somesuch...

I soooo prefer the ICJ. It used to be my weekday 10 o'clock wind-down show. Fie on you Food Network!

bnowell724 wrote:

Bob S. wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:I believe "absolutely no professional chefs" was the phrase Sara Moulton used upon her departure to describe their current "talent" searches.

But then she was fired, so she might have an axe to grind.

The winners of the two "Next Food Network Stars" series have all been professional chefs.

When was she fired and where did she say this? I would like to see that interview.

It was on eGullet, where I believe she's done a few interviews and posts from time to time:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=81688&pid=1108009&mode=threaded&show=&st=0&#entry1108009

It certainly could be that she has an axe to grind, but given the direction of the network, everything here rings awfully true to me.

Christopher Gordon wrote:I coulda sworn in the promo for each episode of ICA that they say he's Kaga's cousin or somesuch...

In the introductory episode, at least, he's identified as Kaga's American nephew.

Giovanna