Asking for wine recommendations

I like to drink bottles with dinner and am slowly expanding the sorts of wine I'm familiar with, mostly Italian and South American. But I'm still pretty much a wine nub.

My problem is that I don't usually have a good form of words handy for getting my server to know roughly what kind of taste I want to try, when I'm asking for a recommendation of something new to me. I'll say things like 'light to medium,' 'spicy,' 'not too fruit-forward.' But those descriptions often end up being vague enough that the server interprets them in a different way than I meant, I realize, once I taste the wine.

My question is, what kinds of things do you say when you're giving guidelines for a recommendation from your server? Do you mention other types you like by name? Do you mention your price range, or is that weird? Also, how do you react when you can tell that your server either really doesn't get what you're trying to say, or really doesn't know much about the wines?

Finally, how often have they brought you a type of wine or a vintage that's different from the one you ordered?

Sorry if these topics have been covered in another thread that I didn't see.

i<3pizza wrote:My problem is that I don't usually have a good form of words handy for getting my server to know roughly what kind of taste I want to try, when I'm asking for a recommendation of something new to me. I'll say things like 'light to medium,' 'spicy,' 'not too fruit-forward.' But those descriptions often end up being vague enough that the server interprets them in a different way than I meant, I realize, once I taste the wine.

These are actually quite descriptive terms, in my opinion. The thing to realize is that in many restaurants, servers are not very knowledgeable about wine. Ask if the restaurant has a sommelier. If not, ask your server to describe a few of the wines. You should be able to pick up whether the server actually knows much about the wine, or not. If not, you are probably better off making an educated guess and going with your own ideas. To make an educated guess, it helps to have some idea about the regions where wine you particularly like comes from.

i<3pizza wrote:Do you mention other types you like by name? Do you mention your price range, or is that weird?

I never mention wines by name because there is usually a good chance the sommelier won't know the wine. But there certainly isn't anything wrong with naming a few.

Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to tell the waiter/sommelier your price range. Just say something like "I'd like to stay in the $40-$50 range," etc. Or if you want to be slightly more discrete, point to a wine on the menu that is in your price range, ask the sommelier how it is and if he/she has any recommendations in the same price range.

i<3pizza wrote:Also, how do you react when you can tell that your server either really doesn't get what you're trying to say, or really doesn't know much about the wines?

If you realize this before you order, great. Then just ignore his or her advice and make your own choice.

If you realize this after you've tasted the wine, it isn't so simple. In a higher end restaurant, esp on with a sommelier, you should definitely let the waiter/sommelier know that the wine is very different from what you expected based on his or her description. You don't have to send it back and, in fact, if you like it, there's no reason to send it back. But even if you have no intention of sending it back, it is helpful to the restaurant and to you to communicate with the sommelier. The sommelier may better understand what future customers are asking for. You may get a better insight into how to describe your preferences.

In some restaurants, the waiter/sommelier will offer to get you a different wine. Accepting this is, I think, a judgment call on your part.

At a cheaper or more casual restaurant, I don't expect nearly as much from the wine and wine service, and never send back a wine (unless it is off, which is another matter altogether).

i<3pizza wrote:Finally, how often have they brought you a type of wine or a vintage that's different from the one you ordered?

Very, very rarely.

i<3pizza wrote:Finally, how often have they brought you a type of wine or a vintage that's different from the one you ordered?

We have had it happen. Sometimes the server really doesn't know that there's a vast difference (sometimes) in vintages. Usually we get the same wine in a different vintage, because they ran out of the '03 and have started on the '04 but forgot to change the menu. I haven't had it happen that we order the '04 XYZ and get '04 PDQ instead, unless they were out of the XYZ and suggested the PDQ as an alternative.

In one amazing incident, there were either out of or had a completely different (and significantly inferior) vintage on the first 4 wines we tried to order.

(edited to fix typo! )

Enjoy this time. Since you're just getting into things you are really open to different things. Enjoy them all.

This is a great time to learn about wines. Not only should you ask your server about the wine prior to ordering it but , if you feel comfortable with their wine knowledge talk to them while you'r drinikng the wine to find out if what they're saying makes sense to you. This will help you grow your knowledge base.

Given that I have a decent knowledge of wine I am able to articulate what I'm looking for in a wine fairly well. The real test comes in whether or not the server understand waht I'm asking for. Mileages vary here depending on where you are.

I'll refer to a wine by name if it's on the list and I can say "I'd like something like the Sonoma Cutrer Les Pierres, only maybe with a bit more oak" for instance.

price range? Yes, thats kind of a must. And don't be embarresed if you're looking at the low end of the pricerange offered.

if it's obvious that the server doesnt know much about wines and the place doesn't have a sommilier I'll take a stab at choosing my own wine (which I often do and am very comfortable with.) Here's qwhere you'll learn the most too.

One my mu biggest pet peeves is when I'm brought a differetn vintage than is listed. I am always quick to point it out and to ask whether tey have the vinatge offered. Often they won't and I'll be back to the list. I'm finding this all too often lately.

Here's the best way to learn about wine. Drink more wine.

Enjoy.

Also, take yourself to some wine bars and have comparative tastes. Get tastes of 3 similar wines and see what is similar or different. Do you like any? None? Read what "experts" say you should taste/smell or see (berries? chocolate? green pepper? vanilla? harsh tannis? soft mouth feel? dark purple? pale green?) and see if you can too. I find it way easier to recognize something if I am told it should be there Then you can say (for example after tasting a bunch) "I do / don't like most Australian Shirazes" - which can be helpful to know.

I agree with all the things that JLenart and Darren72 mentioned.

I'm usually very broad when asking for a wine recommendation; I've found that if you're too specific it's more likely that you'll get something that may be different than your taste. For example Mellonhubby and I have 2 totally different definitions of "spicy" when it comes to wine (we argue about this...)

The other night I told the waitress at Bistro Compagne that I was looking for something food-friendly, and somewhat fruity. I usually enjoy Rhone-style wines but I would be willing to try something different - and would prefer something in the 50-60 dollar range. I also told her which entrees we were thinking of ordering - this makes paring somewhat easier. She then threw out a few suggestions describing characteristics of each. She let also me taste a couple. It worked out well.

If you're shy about verbalizing your price range, you can hold up the wine list so the server/sommelier can see the menu (but the people with you can only see the back of the wine list), point to the price that you're looking for and say, "maybe something in this price range..." They get the message without you having to worry about getting pegged as a cheapskate

I feel that all these comments are quite on-da-money and useful. As Darren, Leek and others have said above, be forthright in your questions and tastes. Being a server - and having worked for many restaurants which give their servers wine training - it's safe to ask your server for recommendations...anything above the Olive Garden quality watermark.

If your server comes back with "yeah that one is really good" then maybe he/she doesn't know much. But if the response to "what dry reds in the medium-body range do you recommend?" is a handful of choices in different varietals and pricepoints, then you can safely infer that said server knows his or her stuff. And never be shy about asking for the "wine director" sommelier" or "wine manager" since that is what they are there for, to help folks like yourself find a wine to go with your meal.

Other things to remember:
make sure the vintage is the same on the list as on the bottle
the temperature of the bottle is slightly cool to the touch (hot wine = no likey)
If there is a vineyard designation on the list, it should match the label (big difference in single vineyard vs. "Napa" or "Oregon"
If you choose a wine that is fairly young and/or pricier, ask your server if they have "reserve" glasses, which have larger bowls than most "all-purpose" glasses that are standard issues for table set-ups.

And most of all, the more you try, the more you know!

If you ever get to Glenview, I suggest you try Cafe Lucci on Milwaukee Ave. Bobby, who is in charge of wine, has a really nice collection of both Italian and South American wines (among other things). He is really happy to talk to you and make suggestions. I've always been impressed that if he suggests alternative to what we pick, it costs about the same-- and it's all pretty reasonable to start with. He also does several-course dinners with wine pairings from time to time.

Also, take yourself to some wine bars and have comparative tastes.

(Tried to quote Leek above, but I'm still not good at the quote thing. If the moderators want to fix this please do so!)

The Stained Glass in Evanston is a good place to go to experiment. Over a year ago I went there and a scruffy looking bartender with a French accent was wonderful about trying to find a wine that I would really like. He asks you what sort of wine you've liked in the past, gives you just a sip of a couple wines and asks which one you prefer and then does it again (sort of like at the eye doctor--"now which is better 1 or 2, now 3 or 4?"), and ends up giving you a glass of something you really like. I don't know if he's still employed there, but he was very helpful.

The Stained Glass
1735 Benson Ave
Evanston, IL 60201
(847) 864-8600

CCCB wrote:Also, take yourself to some wine bars and have comparative tastes.

(Tried to quote Leek above, but I'm still not good at the quote thing. If the moderators want to fix this please do so!)

The Stained Glass in Evanston is a good place to go to experiment. Over a year ago I went there and a scruffy looking bartender with a French accent was wonderful about trying to find a wine that I would really like. He asks you what sort of wine you've liked in the past, gives you just a sip of a couple wines and asks which one you prefer and then does it again (sort of like at the eye doctor--"now which is better 1 or 2, now 3 or 4?"), and ends up giving you a glass of something you really like. I don't know if he's still employed there, but he was very helpful.

The Stained Glass
1735 Benson Ave
Evanston, IL 60201
(847) 864-8600

I've had similar experience sampling the wines at La Petite Amelia - only difference is at La Petite Amelia, all the wines have been French (not a bad thing).

La Petite Amelia
618 Church St., Evanston

Cool, thanks for all the suggestions!

Pizzi Mane

A great book addressing EXACTLY your topic is "Alpana Pours" by Chicago's own Alpana Singh. It's out in paperback now, so might even be available at a library, and a very fast, fun, and easy read.
NOT STUFFY AT ALL!
For someone who is asking the questions you are-
I'd highly recommend this book-
she gives many of the same suggestions our posters have already mentioned....

Cool, I'll have to check that out. Thanks!