Vitesse98 wrote:I used to be a conspiracy theorist on this point, but I've since come around a little. While it's not always first come, first served in the strictest sense, the Pappy hunt does reward diligence (sometimes to the point of obsession!) but mostly rewards loyalty

Don't forget the vital key: being able to drop everything and proceed to your liquor store at the drop of a hat! I have known down to the hour when the trucks were arriving the past two years, but that doesn't mean I can just leave work. It is not a lack of care, interest, loyalty, or diligence at all, just having a job that also needs all those things

Considering the only people I know who are free during the day are bartenders who flat refuse to buy into the Pappy mess any further, it's not like I could even get someone to drop by on my behalf.

It's a shame. I mainly only buy bottles of things I can't get and/or afford to drink out, which means I don't have the kind of relationships with liquor stores that seem to be productive here. Now, if the challenge were to have bartenders on-side, that would be another story!

That's totally true, flexibility is key. But that goes with the territory of "first come, first served," alas. Still easier than, I dunno, driving down to Munster for a bottle of beer, or camping out for concert tickets (back in the day). But for what it's worth, the 10, 12 and even the rye were relatively easy to find this year. In fact, I had a friend buy a bottle of rye before work at the Binny's Grand location this morning. That's right, this morning, a day after every single bottle of everything had come and gone in a blink. So you never know!

Walked into the liquor store at Wells and North (Galleria Liquors?) on Friday while killing some time waiting on someone in the area. Poked around their selection and saw they had a bottle of the ORVW 107 and two bottles of the 12 year/Lot B behind the counter, and the guy told me they had just sold the last bottle of 15-year not much earlier. When I asked how much for the 10-year, he said $129. Just floored me (I think the last time I got a 10-year, maybe 4 years ago, was $32.99). Asked how much they were selling the 15-year for, and he said $200. Was just surprised at the rampant price gouging. Way too many comparable bottles at fractions of those prices.

That is pretty gougey.

Paid $44 for both of my 10s and $60 for my 12

I dont really understand the need for a store to raise prices that much beyond MSRP. They cant possibly have enough stock for the increased prices to even help their bottom line...

I had a bartender doing that in Lexington, KY, of all places. He said the owner basically did not care/want to sell what limited supply he had of PVW, and I remember him saying the 15yr started at around $80 a shot. Which is, of course, obscenely gougey...even in this bourbon-crazy world we live in today.

Or maybe they were just planning to take advantage of dumb bourbon tourists fresh off the trail, pining for some PVW at any price. Considering I can get it at Delilah's (among a handful of other bars I frequent) I did not take him up on the offer.

There is an element at work similar to when bands like the Eagles (always the Eagles ...) started charging $400 a ticket. Their attitude was not only would that fans pay it, but more importantly, if they charged too low a price, then scalpers would snatch them up and sell them at hyper-inflated prices, anyway. Of course, the hole in the logic is that scalpers still sell tickets at hyper-inflated prices, but I suppose there must be some truth to the theory that someone is less willing to flip something they already paid a lot for. If someone buys a bottle closer to MSRP, then lucky them, those jerks get to flip it for a ton of cash. If someone so desperate for a bottle pays well above MSRP, I'd think they'd be less likely to turn right around and resell it. Though you never know.

I did make a promise to myself that my bottles would be for sharing, but I also did consider, if I ever sold them (I'm not), how I would go about doing that. I wouldn't feel comfortable gouging someone at the going rates. That said, I'd be wary of selling them at cost to anyone other than close friends I can trust and who I know will open their bottle and share with me and others. I was just checking out online sales, out of curiosity, and there was some doofus in NYC (natch) asking $1300 for a bottle of the 23. But then I looked locally, and I saw someone else looking to trade their 23, specifically noting that he's an enthusiast who is more interested in getting a bottle of something he wants rather than 5 times the price he paid. That's the honorable way to go, I'd say.

The thing is, some one will probably pay it, at some point.

I am an enthusiast for sure, but if someone offered me $1300 for my 23, I would have a hard time not taking it. (I'm not seeking it, for the record)

Bspar wrote:That is pretty gougey.

Paid $44 for both of my 10s and $60 for my 12

I dont really understand the need for a store to raise prices that much beyond MSRP. They cant possibly have enough stock for the increased prices to even help their bottom line...

Raising way beyond MSRP is the fastest way for me to not come back to a liquor store. I have a few places I can count that I just won't go back to because of that, and I tend to be a pretty sizable scotch and whiskey buyer as an individual- I'd have to think the one time gain just isn't worth it for the store in exchange for a lost repeat customer.

Not sure what they are charging for drinks, but Red Door has a sign outside saying they have Pappy Van Winkle.

Red Door
http://reddoorchicago.com/‎
2118 N Damen Ave
Chicago IL
(773) 697-7221

Scofflaw also has a wide array of this years Pappy. Not sure the prices on all of them but I think the Old Rip is $10.

I'll say this much: once my bottles are open I'll be able to enjoy them at my leisure with my friends 'til the goods run out. The folks hustling for the Goose Island ... it fades in flavor over time and it has to be consumed in one sitting, so I'm happy with how I allocated by energies.

(Speaking of which, my two closest Binny's fared worse with their BCBS allocation than they did with PVW, getting nothing more than the standard cigar-in-a-bottle that is the Bourbon County Barrel Stout.)

Vitesse98 wrote: I was just checking out online sales, out of curiosity, and there was some doofus in NYC (natch) asking $1300 for a bottle of the 23.

I know it rubs people the wrong way, but 1,300 for Pappy 23 is a very reasonable ask in the secondary market. Bottles of 23 have sold at recent auctions at Skinner and Hart, Davis, Hart for closer to 1,750. Here's a link to what is available on wine-searcher:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/pappy+23

You may not like it, but doofus? How about the liquor store in NJ asking 3,600? If you'd like to consume your bottle(s), more power to you. I think it's a big head scratcher to pay 224 a share for LinkedIn stock, but it's the market price. Get over it.

I can't get over it. I take this very seriously. That is why I used the very serious word "doofus."

Vitesse98 wrote:I'll say this much: once my bottles are open I'll be able to enjoy them at my leisure with my friends 'til the goods run out. The folks hustling for the Goose Island ... it fades in flavor over time and it has to be consumed in one sitting, so I'm happy with how I allocated by energies.

(Speaking of which, my two closest Binny's fared worse with their BCBS allocation than they did with PVW, getting nothing more than the standard cigar-in-a-bottle that is the Bourbon County Barrel Stout.)

And once you open that bottle of Pappy, the flavors are going to change over time, too, once all that oxygen gets into the bottle -- possibly not for the better. Here's some more information: http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2013/ ... n-obe.html

With bourbon, a bottle can stay good for months, probably years, if you can wait that long. It may change a tiny bit somewhere down the line, but I've never heard of bourbon changing significantly. One opened, beer lasts a matter of hours. Alas.

Vitesse98 wrote:With bourbon, a bottle can stay good for months, probably years, if you can wait that long. It may change a tiny bit somewhere down the line, but I've never heard of bourbon changing significantly. One opened, beer lasts a matter of hours. Alas.

Agreed. Even the quoted article says "In any case, organoleptically significant changes in bottled whisky are likely to occur during decades, if at all."

I've tried all this fall's VW releases, with the exception of the Rye, and I have to say the 10-year is my favorite. I'm also a fan of the 15 but I didn't like it as much as the 10 this year.

=R=

How was this year's 23? Possibly/potentially the last of the S-W,right? Though distillers are so damn coy/misleading.

I wish the Old Rip 10-year were as available as one might expect a 10-year to be.

A daring bourbon heist! apparently thieves have spirited away $27,000 worth of Pappy 20-yr family reserve and 13-yr: http://gawker.com/police-are-offering-a-10-000-reward-for-the-best-bourb-1476179113

Vitesse98 wrote:How was this year's 23?

I thought it was missing a distinctive element -- an almost-coconuty front note -- that has been very easy to pick up in previous bottlings. That said, I went up the ladder at my tasting, so I was 5 whiskeys in by the time I got to the 23-year. I'd been sharing with others and not drinking full pours but still, there was probably a bit of palate fatigue. I'll try it again soon.

=R=

You should have gone the other direction! From most purportedly complex to simplest.

I once went to an event with a whiskey-tasting component, and they began with a string of the crappiest stuff ever, from white whiskeys to Mellow Corn and whatnot, and only at the end reached an at least palatable MOR bourbon. At which point our own palates were shot, and it might as well have been white whiskey again.

Vitesse98 wrote:You should have gone the other direction! From most purportedly complex to simplest.

I once went to an event with a whiskey-tasting component, and they began with a string of the crappiest stuff ever, from white whiskeys to Mellow Corn and whatnot, and only at the end reached an at least palatable MOR bourbon. At which point our own palates were shot, and it might as well have been white whiskey again.

Well, of course. I didn't know where I was going when I started.

=R=

I didn't know where I was going when I started.

I bet you weren't much better off when you were done!

Someday, I'll get some Pappy. Someday.

Jim-Bob wrote:Someday, I'll get some Pappy. Someday.

for the price and hype of pappy there's a lot of other fun stuff out there in the brown whiskey family

I've been convinced by the favored internet concoction of mixing Old Weller Antique and Weller 12 in a ratio of 60/40. Good stuff made even better once you realize that some places pine for those two ubiquitous-in-Chicago Wellers the way others pine for Pappy.

Very disappointed in the rye this year. "Flabby" was the word I had thought to myself which was funny when I met up with a friend who, without prompting from me, used the exact same word to describe his bottle as well. Think maybe it's showing signs of oxidation. Oh well, it was great while it lasted. The 20 is still darned good, though. In all honesty my fave of this year's limited's was probably the William Larue Weller, but that's a quite different whiskey from the Pappy 20. Nice to have choices.

As to whether spirits age/change in bottle, Cognac producers keep their best Cognac's in glass after they have aged to their satisfaction in wood. They then blend from these spirits to produce what you purchase in bottle. The more money you spend, the older and better the Cognacs contained within but you never know what's exactly in the bottle.
PVW is excellent marketing but worth price?
As Posted, there is a lot of good Bourbon around these days.
One store in Wisconsin had a drawing for it's supply of Pappy.
Bottles were sold at list to the 'winners' and no I didn't 'win' any 23 old Pappy's.-Dick

It's sort of a side discussion, but is PVW even "marketed?" Do they advertise? It seems to be mostly word of mouth, accelerated year after year by the same cut and paste news stories. If it was strictly a matter of marketing, they'd find some way to make more of it.

An interesting point of comparison is the Four Roses Limited Edition 125th Anniversary bottle, distributed at PVW nil-level numbers, which came and went instantly this year with very little buzz, per se. I never even knew it was coming; blinked and missed out, it was so limited and so hard (for me) to find. Same relative lack of marketing, but didn't get that big Pappy hype push in the press, even though most everyone who found a bottle loved it. Whisky Advocate just gave it Whiskey of the Year for the second year in a row, and yet you're not going to see long "you want it; how to get it; you can't have it" pieces in the news.

Just sold my 2 15 PVW for $500 each! The winesearcher prices were at $600 and I priced mine at $500 and they were gone in less than 24 hrs.. The 12 and the 10 sold for $475 total to a second buyer. I can drink pretty darn close to PVW for a few years thanks to this combination of market hype and the holiday season. the PVW15 buyer was giving them as gifts to his best customers. He was going to spend $500 on something anyway... So, it might as well be my bottles! I was kind of sad to see the 12 and 10 go as I would have been happy to drink them but I just ordered a fancy new digital camera so... out they go!

PIGMON wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I agree that there are some great American whiskeys currently available but I do miss the days -- not very long ago, at all -- when I could walk into my local Binny's and always find Van Winkle Lot B 12-year, Handmade and Old Rip 107 collecting dust on the bottom shelf in the bourbon aisle. That was the golden (brown) age.

Exactly. I miss those bygone days when you could buy a case of Old Rip 107 for $29/bottle (or less), throw it in the car trunk and always be properly prepared.

Onward and upward.

Yeah, 7 or 8 years ago Pappy and other VWs were a shelf bourbon like all the others. Of course, these days there are a ton more American whiskeys on those shelves. Rather than join the likely futile chase for Pappy (if I really want something like that I'll just buy a Weller 12 at this point) I've taken to trying lots of other bottles recommended by various people and places. High West Campfire was one of my favorites, just a really interesting bottle o' brown, unlike really anything else I've had.