Mike G wrote:

They don't need high concept cool to sell the place.

See, I think they're selling a lot more than good cocktails, though, and I like the showmanship and concept involved even as I (obviously) was kind of amused by it at first.

No, you're right. That's a poor way to say it on my part. Of course, any place wants to create some kind of vibe, whatever that vibe may be. I just meant that I don't think they needed to get so cutesy with the speakeasy parallels, and it's a little overly important.

But this already sounds too much like I'm trying to take something away from the place. I'm really not. I think it's fantastic.

Dmnkly wrote:

Mike G wrote:

They don't need high concept cool to sell the place.

I don't think they needed to get so cutesy with the speakeasy parallels, and it's a little overly important.

But this already sounds too much like I'm trying to take something away from the place. I'm really not. I think it's fantastic.

Do you really feel thats what the proprietors were going for with Violet Hour? I don;t think they were. They were going for ultra hip, sophisticated.

I'd say the "no sign" etc thing comes from the LA/NYC ultra hip clubs more than 1920's speakeasy. It's not that they're hiding per se (as prohibition era speakeasys were) but rather "If you're hip enough to find us then you'll find us without a sign". That bugs me a bit but once I'm inside I quickley forget that bit of pretension.

David Hammond wrote:[Cherry Herring (a noxious name, come to think of it), which came on as unbearably sweet and heavy next to these two much finer bottles.

It was actually Heering, which is a little less noxious. Certainly an inferior beverage to the other two.

I had never had tasted chartreuse before, but unlike Mike G, I found it thoroughly enjoyable on its own. We tasted these two:


And then a third, that we were told was 3-4 times the price of the first two. It had a difficult to read label in French, and I can't find an image, but it was really a terrific, incredibly complex liqueur.

I also disagree with the ageism accusations much as Dmnkly does, right down to sharing his age.

And actually, they are in period costume. The first time I visited, the bartender went at great length to explain they sought out historically accurate 20s/30s bartender accoutrement, including the little black armbands to cinch their sleeves.

I really enjoy this place quite a bit, and noticing cocktails on other menus around town...everything at Brasserie Jo was maybe $12-15, and I noticed in the paper yesterday that martinis at the Yard House in Glenview are $9.25. I think it's amazing that Violet Hour's cocktails come in right in the middle of that range, given the surpassing quality of their drinks, is excellent.

Maybe they could turn the back room/back bar into a smoking area (until it lasts in Chicago!!). I'm sorry but a martini without a cigarette is missing something. With good ventilation it could work. A speakeasy than bans smoking? Go back at look at the old photos of the real thing.

I was there late night (I want to go back more times) and the hostess steers people to assigned seats with waitresses, as they don't want a free for all at the bar. There are no TV's blaring!!! Kind of reminds me of the vibe of some pubs in Ireland that support privacy and intimacy (those stain-glass partitions along the bar provide private space).

The drinks rock at this place, and the fresh mint is great. Still, I don't think any of the creations can improve on the basic martini or manhattan recipe, imho, so while I liked my cocktail, I could not help but think I still just wanted a basic tanqueray martini and a cigarette. That's just me.

I'm going back for sure, but not late night.

PS I know I'll catch some flack for this, but there weren't many European-American customers frequenting the place when I was there on a Saturday night, like I had hoped. As with Irish pubs, Sushi restaurants, Chinatown, etc. it's always better to see the real atmosphere come through in a place, (i.e. see Chinese eating at a Chinatown place, Irish at Irish pubs, Greek people at 9 Muses, etc.

Speakeasies were always classic White-American back in the day. Today, the clubbing crowd seems to have found the place, so some of the authenticity isn't there.

RiverWester wrote:The drinks rock at this place, and the fresh mint is great. Still, I don't think any of the creations can improve on the basic martini or manhattan recipe, imho, so why I liked my cocktail, I could not help but think I still just wanted a basic tanqueray martini and a cigarette.

If you ask, I'm quite certain they'll be more than happy to honor that request (well, maybe not with Tanqueray, I don't know), and more certain that it'll be one of the best you've had

RiverWester wrote:PS I know I'll catch some flack for this, but there weren't many European-American customers frequenting the place when I was there on a Saturday night, like I had hoped. As with Irish pubs, Sushi restaurants, Chinatown, etc. it's always better to see the real atmosphere come through in a place, (i.e. see Chinese eating at a Chinatown place, Irish at Irish pubs, Greek people at 9 Muses, etc.

Speakeasies were always classic White-American back in the day. Today, the clubbing crowd seems to have found the place, so some of the authenticity isn't there.

RiverWester, this is your second post commenting on the ethnicity of a business's clientèle. Perhaps you're tying to catch some flack, or at least provoke a response?

RiverWester wrote:Maybe they could turn the back room/back bar into a smoking area (until it lasts in Chicago!!). I'm sorry but a martini without a cigarette is missing something. With good ventilation it could work. A speakeasy than bans smoking? Go back at look at the old photos of the real thing.

I was there late night (I want to go back more times) and the hostess steers people to assigned seats with waitresses, as they don't want a free for all at the bar. There are no TV's blaring!!! Kind of reminds me of the vibe of some pubs in Ireland that support privacy and intimacy (those stain-glass partitions along the bar provide private space).

The drinks rock at this place, and the fresh mint is great. Still, I don't think any of the creations can improve on the basic martini or manhattan recipe, imho, so while I liked my cocktail, I could not help but think I still just wanted a basic tanqueray martini and a cigarette. That's just me.

I'm going back for sure, but not late night.

PS I know I'll catch some flack for this, but there weren't many European-American customers frequenting the place when I was there on a Saturday night, like I had hoped. As with Irish pubs, Sushi restaurants, Chinatown, etc. it's always better to see the real atmosphere come through in a place, (i.e. see Chinese eating at a Chinatown place, Irish at Irish pubs, Greek people at 9 Muses, etc.

Speakeasies were always classic White-American back in the day. Today, the clubbing crowd seems to have found the place, so some of the authenticity isn't there.

I think you want a bar that isn't the Violet Hour.

RiverWester wrote:A speakeasy than bans smoking? Go back at look at the old photos of the real thing.

I don't think smoking is banned because the owners weren't aware that smoking happened in "the real thing". I presume you understand that they want to recreate some aspects of a speakeasy, but not all. Smoking will be banned in all Illinois bars come January 1st, so I'm not sure it made much sense for them to allow smoking for the six-plus months prior to that.

RiverWester wrote:PS I know I'll catch some flack for this, but there weren't many European-American customers frequenting the place when I was there on a Saturday night, like I had hoped. As with Irish pubs, Sushi restaurants, Chinatown, etc. it's always better to see the real atmosphere come through in a place, (i.e. see Chinese eating at a Chinatown place, Irish at Irish pubs, Greek people at 9 Muses, etc.

Speakeasies were always classic White-American back in the day. Today, the clubbing crowd seems to have found the place, so some of the authenticity isn't there.

You'll catch flack for this, but not for the reason you think.

Yeah, you're right it's the vibe they're going for.

A real speakeasy used gin only because during Prohibition, it was easy to make and transport, and it didn't need aging. The gin during that time was horrible (like moonshine) and that's why cocktails were invented, to make the stuff more palatable by mixing in sugar, bitters, juices, etc.

Ironically today, if you have a great well-crafted spirit, it probably don't need much doctoring up.

PS Has anyone had a straight-up martini with the newer "botanical" and flowery gins? Whooooo.....I'm not used to them and they are a little too fuzzy for me, not crisp and cool enough.

RiverWester wrote:Yeah, you're right it's the vibe they're going for.

A real speakeasy used gin only because during Prohibition, it was easy to make and transport, and it didn't need aging. The gin during that time was horrible (like moonshine) and that's why cocktails were invented, to make the stuff more palatable by mixing in sugar, bitters, juices, etc.

Ironically today, if you have a great well-crafted spirit, it probably don't need much doctoring up.

PS Has anyone had a straight-up martini with the newer "botanical" and flowery gins? Whooooo.....I'm not used to them and they are a little too fuzzy for me, not crisp and cool enough.

Which gins are you referring to?

Tanqueray 10, and recently Martin Miller

RiverWester wrote:Tanqueray 10, and recently Martin Miller

I've had a number of martinis with Tanq 10, not so much martin miller. You certainly want it dry and you really want it shaken, hard. When you chill that gin down it's floral notes become much more gentle.

If you need an excuse to go back to Violet Hour, may I suggest the duck meatballs with apple moutarde? I think they are new with the spring menu, which I just encountered last night with a couple of friends. They were awesome. We also ordered the decadent fried peanut butter, banana, bacon and honey sandwich, which was good, although maybe not as exciting as the first time. Not sure if that's novelty, or the cocktail count at time of consumption, or what.

For cocktails, I liked the Spring Sidecar, but for yesterday, a good ol' Dark and Stormy was my favorite cocktail of the evening.

RiverWester wrote:Yeah, you're right it's the vibe they're going for.

A real speakeasy used gin only because during Prohibition, it was easy to make and transport, and it didn't need aging. The gin during that time was horrible (like moonshine) and that's why cocktails were invented, to make the stuff more palatable by mixing in sugar, bitters, juices, etc.
Ironically today, if you have a great well-crafted spirit, it probably don't need much doctoring up.
PS Has anyone had a straight-up martini with the newer "botanical" and flowery gins? Whooooo.....I'm not used to them and they are a little too fuzzy for me, not crisp and cool enough.

My years of bartending led me to a similar conclusion: good liquor doesn't need much. I was a scotch person for many years, bourbon too. A little water to cut the taste, or a soda back is all I need. Ice kills the bouquet, most of the taste comes from the aroma, and to chill a good scotch or bourbon ruins the flavor. A good tequila I like to savor. Vodka, in a martini or gimlet needs to be good, but if you're drinking a bloody mary or screwdriver or something who needs good vodka? If you're going to be mixing things all kinds of ways it's a waste to buy expensive booze because you won't be able to tell the difference.

Just my opinion based on years of experience. I don't like rum but in Mexico you can get aged Havana rum which is tasty by itself, a little beer to chase it.

trpt2345, have you been to the Violet Hour, or are you speaking hypothetically? Your point is quite similar to the argument many make against modern restaurants: high quality ingredients should be prepared simply to let the natural flavor of the food show through. My personal view is that there is room for the avant-garde also, in both food and drink. My goal is not to always taste the pure form of gin, for example. Sometimes I want to taste what gin can become when combined in unique ways (i.e. "doctored up") with other things.

I've always felt that using the best ingredients across the board, if one can afford it, produces great results. For example, a bloody mary made with a mix can take average vodka, but I find that a well crafted one using premium vodka provides an incredibly smooth and special experience.

Last night, I lost a couple of very enjoyable hours at the Violet Hour. I find that a bar seat here means that not only are you guaranteed easygoing conversation with the affable bartenders, but that they will volunteer lots of pointers and secret tips about their drink making, assuming you show genuine interest first. It's well worth the experience just for that.

I'm on record as loving the Dark N' Stormy and I still do. That drink is pure melodrama. And not just because of its foreboding name or appearance, with the dark cruzan blackstrap "cloud" floating ominously over the drink -- but also in taste. The spiciness of the ginger and rum almost overwhelmed me until the sweeter and more acidic elements of the drink kick in at the last second to soothe. Not a drink for the weak of heart, I don't think.

Enough blabbing about that old drink. A Daisy de Santiago rum and mint drink had more heft than a mojito and made me dream about South America. But that compared not at all to what I think is now my second favorite drink there. The NY sour is a perfect balance of Plymouth Gin, Rose wine, egg whites and orange flower water. (It becomes a "NY" sour if it's topped with a wine float, I was told.) The egg whites provided an egg-noggy frothiness, the orange flower played with but didn't overwhelm the gin, and the rose wine smoothed it all out. I asked which rose they used because I find rose to be a varying type of wine, ranging in taste from vinegar to strawberries. They used a Spanish rose, which I think explains why it mixed so well in that drink.

The highlight of the evening, however, was the group of obviously wealthy persons who might be characterized by some as "yuppies" of a certain age (and I mean no offense to "yuppies" anywhere) who seemingly wandered in off the street after hitting several other bars hard earlier in the night. They seemed to be completely oblivious to the Violet Hour's "schtick" and sauntered up to the bar, barking orders for off-the-menu drinks. It devolved into a "Who's on First?" routine as one of men in the group stepped up to the bartender to order for his group. He started out by asking for a Grey Goose and tonic. The bartender responded: "For vodkas tonight, we only have Pearl, Ketel One and Luksusowa. And we don't have tonic." Male Customer: "Okay, I'll have a Ketel One and tonic then." [Bartender winces, and Male Customer gets a Ketel One and soda.] Next order: "I'll have an Absolut Cosmo." [Sigh.] Bartender: "We don't have Absolut. And we don't carry bottled juices. We fresh squeeze all of our juices here." Male Customer: "Nobody asked you for bottled juice. [Cue annoyance by Male Customer.] What are you talking about?" Bartender: "Your cosmo has cranberry juice. We don't have any bottled juices." Male Customer: "You don't carry cranberry juice?" Bartender: "It's next to impossible to fresh squeeze cranberry juice, sir." Male Customer: "All right, I'll have a Ketel One on the rocks." [YEAH!] Next order: "I'll have a Bailey's and cream [!?] on the rocks." Bartender: "We don't have Bailey's but I can make a Bailey's from scratch (and he goes to describe to describe how he'd make this luscious drink way superior to bottled Bailey's). Male Customer: "Whatever. And I'll have a "White" Chardonnay." [As the Violet Hour didn't have a Chardonnay on the menu, I chuckled as I saw the poor, abused bartender take out a bottle of Naia (not Chardonnay), pour it and hand it over. They were none the wiser. ]

Good times.

Edited to remove any "unnecessary" stereotypical references which were only meant to be illustrative and not intended to offend anyone, or characterize anyone on the basis of race, color, religion or ethnicity. (Disclaimer over.)

aschie30 wrote:The bartender responded: "For vodkas tonight, we only have Pearl, Ketel One and Luksusowa. And we don't have tonic." NS type: "Okay, I'll have a Ketel One and tonic then." [Bartender winces, and NS type gets a Ketel One and soda.] Next order: "I'll have an Absolut Cosmo." [Sigh.] Bartender: "We don't have Absolut. And we don't carry bottled juices. We fresh squeeze all of our juices here." NS type: "Nobody asked you for bottled juice. [Cue annoyance by NS type.] What are you talking about?" Bartender: "Your cosmo has cranberry juice. We don't have any bottled juices." NS type: "You don't carry cranberry juice?" Bartender: "It's next to impossible to fresh squeeze cranberry juice, sir."

No tonic? That's a flaw. Serving club soda instead of tonic is right up there with fake ginger ale.

Custom House makes its own tonic from cinchona bark.

And it's easy to make cranberry juice from scratch.

Custom House
http://www.customhouse.cc
500 S. Dearborn St., Chicago
(312) 523-0200

Perhaps, but I'd still go to the Violet Hour any day of the week for drinks over Custom House.

Besides, I don't think that these folks weren't expecting that the cranberry juice be fresh squeezed; I think that good ol' Ocean Spray or GFS cranberry juice would have sufficed in the Cosmo. It was more that it seemed that these folks would have preferred that the Violet Hour be more like a "regular" bar, which is sad considering that any on-menu cocktail would have been revelatory compared to an Absolut Cosmo.

No tonic? That's a flaw. Serving club soda instead of tonic is right up there with fake ginger ale.

They don't have tonic because they don't want tonic. This is not a place that will lazily forget somthing like tonic because they forgot to order it, ran out or did not want to make it. It is a small part of what makes it the Violet Hour. I don't hold it against the Custom House that they don't have 5 different types of hand chipped ice, it's just the way they run there place.

In one of Richard and Frances Lockridge's "Mr. and Mrs. North" novels -- "Murder is Served," I think -- the solution to a murder case revolves around how well a French restaurant cooks a steak. Steaks aren't, of course, the restaurant's specialty. But the detective reasons that any good restaurant ought to be able to turn out a decent steak.

For the most part, I agree with this premise. I don't expect every eatery to turn out a Primehouse-quality steak, but any good restaurant should turn out one that isn't shoe leather, done more or less to order. I've written before about the traveler's friend.

While I am no bar fly, it likewise seems to me that there are a few drinks any place that pretends to be more than a shot-and-a-beer joint should be able to make. To my mind, that includes gin and tonic.*

If their premise is that they don't want to use commercial mixers, that's great -- but they can make their own. That they refuse to offer routine items like tonic water and cranberry juice strikes me as arrogant, akin to restaurants that don't put salt and pepper on the table. (Do they also eschew ginger ale and cola?)

And no matter how dim-witted the customer, it's egregious to serve something other than what's ordered without making clear that you're making a substitution.

I'd also like to know how "North Shore types" are supposed to know this lounge is something different? The website isn't exactly a mine of information. There's not even a picture of a drink, let alone a menu.

* I should say that I am a huge fan of tonic water, both in cocktails and on its own. Has anyone spotted any of the new tonics? After tasting its Bitter Lemon, I'm afraid to try the Stirrings product.

**Edited to reflect Aschie30's replacement of "North Shore types"

LAZ -

Have you been to the Violet Hour?

Fever tree is out, though I know it's not cheap for bars to get their hands on.

Frankly, I'm going to guess that there's more to this story than we're hearing.

Would you walk into a sushi restaurant and expect to be able to order a steak? (Or an Indian one?) That's sort of what this is like. The Violet Hour is a different kind of bar experience entirely, and they don't keep Ocean Spray Cranberry Juice on hand because nobody's coming there for a generic Cosmo or whatever. If you're not into its thing... there's only every other bar in Chicagoland to go have a standard drink at, why does this one have to be just like them?

If wanting to provide a unique and creative experience of demanding quality is arrogance, then yeah, they're pretty arrogant.

(As for how these folks were supposed to know-- well, it's not like they went there because of its prominent and inviting signage.)

The winter 2007/08 menu at Violet Hour included a drink called the Rangoon Fizz that includes tonic:

Rangoon Fizz
Tanqueray, Ginger Syrup, Lime, Mint, Angostura and Tonic. Ginger is such a versatile ingredient, in the summer it’s refreshing, in the winter it is warming. With this cocktail I wanted to make something that could have been enjoyed in Burma way back when. There are bitters to calm the stomach, Tonic to keep malaria at bay, and mint, well because it tastes so good.

So it clearly isn't a general policy that they don't serve tonic. Perhaps they were out of it during the night in question.

Like it or not, the Violet Hour isn't trying to be a full-service bar where you can order anything and they'll make it. They are trying to be more like a high end restaurant. You wouldn't expect to be able to go into, say, Blackbird and ask for a steak frites and get it any time. Sometimes they'd say they don't have all of the (very limited) ingredients. Other times they may say they just won't do it. I think you have to think of Violet Hour in the same way: if they have cranberry juice, they'll make a cosmo. If not, they won't.

But it's so easy to just have a bottle of Ocean Spray in the back? Their fridges are probably full. Second, they are trying for a certain imagine (and I might add, trying really hard and not altogether successfully, IMO). Bottled juices don't fit that image. Third, a bottle of Ocean Spray here, a bottle of myfavoritevodka there, and pretty soon the place looks like every other bar in the city.

In this situation, the best the bartender could have done is to explain what the bar does and why, and give recommendations about what to try. It seems like he tried this and didn't get very far.

The references to "North Shore types" is unnecessary.

Arrogance can be the right tack in a lot of situations when it comes to the finer things in life - and I applaud the violet hour for not suffering fools.

Mike G wrote:(As for how these folks were supposed to know-- well, it's not like they went there because of its prominent and inviting signage.)

That is exactly my point.

Darren72 wrote:But it's so easy to just have a bottle of Ocean Spray in the back? Their fridges are probably full. Second, they are trying for a certain imagine (and I might add, trying really hard and not altogether successfully, IMO). Bottled juices don't fit that image. Third, a bottle of Ocean Spray here, a bottle of myfavoritevodka there, and pretty soon the place looks like every other bar in the city.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point. But as to having a bottle of Ocean Spray around, have you seen what is actually in that stuff? It is clear from one visit to the VH that they are attempting to create drinks with clean, balanced flavors and the multi-ingredient, corn syruped bottled juice industry doesn't really fit into that. So, it could be that the VH doesn't have the room, or it could also be that those products do not fit into their philosophy of drink-making. Or it could be both.

Darren72 wrote:In this situation, the best the bartender could have done is to explain what the bar does and why, and give recommendations about what to try. It seems like he tried this and didn't get very far.

And if I wasn't clear about that in my initial post, that is correct. The poor guy was genuinely and politely attempting to explain this to them, give recommendations and accommodate requests. Instead, his efforts were met with derision and sneers, as if *he* was the one with the problem. I don't think he makes it a practice to give people what they didn't order, but sometimes you have to size a situation up, and do the best you can. After all, there are plenty of other people waiting for one of their on-menu drinks, who would actually appreciate them.

No, I haven't yet found reason to visit the Violet Hour. Much of what I've read about it makes it sound like I wouldn't enjoy it. I'm fond of well-made cocktails, but not pretentiousness or waiting in lines, and I especially don't like servers who take advantage of customers' naivety.

LAZ wrote:If their premise is that they don't want to use commercial mixers, that's great -- but they can make their own.

Mike G wrote:The Violet Hour is a different kind of bar experience entirely, and they don't keep Ocean Spray Cranberry Juice on hand because nobody's coming there for a generic Cosmo or whatever.

Well, clearly some people are, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Based on what I've read elsewhere, scenarios such as Aschie30 described aren't uncommon.

Mike G wrote:If wanting to provide a unique and creative experience of demanding quality is arrogance, then yeah, they're pretty arrogant.

Did I say they should stock Ocean Spray? I said that they could easily make high-quality cranberry juice, if they wanted to serve drinks that call for it. They can, not so easily perhaps, also make tonic water.

That they choose to offer only a limited selection of drinks mixed to the the bartenders' tastes and not to fulfill customers' requests for the many popular cocktails that use other ingredients is arrogance. Maybe it works for them, the way Gene & Jude's limited menu works there. But if somebody who doesn't understand asks for ketchup at Gene & Jude's, they don't give him mustard on the premise he won't know the difference.

And while, a bare, rude, "We only have X, take it or leave it," is service tolerable at a hot dog stand, it's below what I expect of a posh and pricey lounge. Perhaps it was poorly reported, but I detect no note of apology in what the bartender said to the customer.

The only correct answer to a customer, however misguided, asking for something you can't supply is "I'm sorry, we don't have that. What would you like instead?" Substituting something else without notice is not only arrogant but dishonest.

Woody Allen in Love and Death wrote:Sergeant: Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces?
Soldiers: No...!
Sergeant: Do you want them to have soufflé every meal, and croissant?
Soldiers: NO!

LAZ wrote:That they choose to offer only a limited selection of drinks mixed to the the bartenders' tastes and not to fulfill customers' requests for the many popular cocktails that use other ingredients is arrogance.

...

And while, a bare, rude, "We only have X, take it or leave it," is service tolerable at a hot dog stand, it's below what I expect of a posh and pricey lounge. Perhaps it was poorly reported, but I detect no note of apology in what the bartender said to the customer.

Wow. I think this is a pretty harsh assessment to make of a place you've never been based on someone else's write-up of their experience. I didn't read aschie's post that way at all, and to the extent there's going to be an argument over how the service sounds in aschie's post vs. the service that's actually been experienced there--that doesn't seem like a particularly useful conversation.

I've been to The Violet Hour several times, and while I fully expected it to be pretentious beyond my comfort level, the bartenders could hardly have been less arrogant or more gracious, especially given their obvious expertise and passion for their craft.