Aaron Deacon wrote:I've been to The Violet Hour several times, and while I fully expected it to be pretentious beyond my comfort level, the bartenders could hardly have been less arrogant or more gracious, especially given their obvious expertise and passion for their craft.

I couldn't agree more. The servers are almost universally equally enthusiastic and friendly. One time I had a kind of disinterested server, but she also finished her shift shortly after we sat down. Her successor was fantastic.

I do always see a line when I leave. I have only gone around 6 when they open, when it's never hard to get a seat. By about 7 the bar seems to be full, maybe even a little earlier, but there are still seats around. Not really sure when the lines start forming.

Mike G wrote:

Woody Allen in Love and Death wrote:Sergeant: Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces?
Soldiers: No...!
Sergeant: Do you want them to have soufflé every meal, and croissant?
Soldiers: NO!

Cordwainer Smith in 'Western Science is So Wonderful' wrote:They lead the masses in the fight against the wicked Americans. Do you realize that if we didn't fight on with the revolutionary struggle all of us would have to drink Coca-Cola every day?

I'll just have a Coke, thanks.

Aaron Deacon wrote:I think this is a pretty harsh assessment to make of a place you've never been based on someone else's write-up of their experience.

Isn't one of the points of this forum to assess places based on others' accounts of their experiences?

Aaron Deacon wrote:I've been to The Violet Hour several times, and while I fully expected it to be pretentious beyond my comfort level, the bartenders could hardly have been less arrogant or more gracious, especially given their obvious expertise and passion for their craft.

But did you try to order anything that wasn't on the menu?

We've had discussions about off-menu requests in other contexts. I just don't think customers are out of line to request items that are easy to make from common ingredients, or to be surprised when they can't get them, especially at a place that hasn't gone to any particular trouble to spell out that they're above that sort of thing. I'm sure all the patrons in question knew before they stumbled in was that this was a hot new place with a speakeasy gimmick.

To answer an earlier question of Darren72's, if I went to Blackbird and said, "You know, I really don't feel like grilled wagyu flatiron with ramp kimchi, buttermilk spaetzle, chicory and green grapes tonight. Can I just have steak and potatoes?" I would be pretty well shocked if the answer were no, or if it weren't prepared as well as they do everything else.

Not long ago I had a conversation with a chef about his early career, and he told me this story: A customer came in and ordered a glass of milk with his dinner. They didn't have milk on the menu and it happened they didn't use it for cooking. So they sent a busboy to the supermarket. Ultimately, the customer complained about it taking so long to get a glass of milk, so they placated him by taking it off his check.

If you don't see that as a higher level of service than surreptitiously swapping verdejo for chardonnay, we aren't going to agree.

LAZ wrote:To answer an earlier question of Darren72's, if I went to Blackbird and said, "You know, I really don't feel like grilled wagyu flatiron with ramp kimchi, buttermilk spaetzle, chicory and green grapes tonight. Can I just have steak and potatoes?" I would be pretty well shocked if the answer were no, or if it weren't prepared as well as they do everything else.

Not long ago I had a conversation with a chef about his early career, and he told me this story: A customer came in and ordered a glass of milk with his dinner. They didn't have milk on the menu and it happened they didn't use it for cooking. So they sent a busboy to the supermarket. Ultimately, the customer complained about it taking so long to get a glass of milk, so they placated him by taking it off his check.

I have to say, LAZ, I'm really surprised by this line of criticism.

For starters, there is a world of difference between expecting a restaurant to be willing to throw together a customer's simple off-menu request from ingredients on hand, and another thing entirely to expect them to stock ingredients that aren't used for their menu expressly for that purpose.

Secondly, I think we'd all agree that the milk anecdote you share, while interesting, is extremely exceptional service, far above and beyond the call of duty. To criticize a place for not exemplifying this level of service is to set some shockingly high standards.

Thirdly, as mentioned by others above, I find this kind of criticism especially odd since none of the people who have actually visited the place seem to feel your complaint is at all a fair characterization of the level of service and enthusiasm shown by the staff on a regular basis (myself included). Even having never visited, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but the fact that the person who's never set foot in the door is the only person who seems bothered by the situation should, I hope, say something.

Fourthly, I'm puzzled by this attitude that there is some standard that all bars must meet in terms of what is offered and available. If anything that isn't standard is bad by definition, than all we'll ever have is standard bars, and that strikes me as incredibly boring. If you don't like it for what it is, that's fine, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. If to depart from a standard in an effort to try something different and refreshing is, as you claim, arrogant, than I submit that what the world needs is a lot more arrogance. And I fail to see how the fact that the customers were ignorant of the nature of the establishment somehow means they're then entitled to whatever they expected.

I agree with you on one point. While I'm sympathetic to the bartender, given the circumstances, I don't think that makes the surreptitious substitution okay. But to expand that single, isolated, thirdhand (I submit, exceptional) incident into a larger indictment of a very unusual, quite exceptional and, incidentally, quite excellent place that you haven't even visited strikes me as looking very hard to pick a fight.

LAZ wrote:

Aaron Deacon wrote:I think this is a pretty harsh assessment to make of a place you've never been based on someone else's write-up of their experience.

Isn't one of the points of this forum to assess places based on others' accounts of their experiences?

Sorry, I meant to say someone else's write-up of a third party's experience. I don't think trying to decide if this third party was, in fact, treated rudely, or if they were the rude party, or if it matters, or where in the middle the reality happened to be is a very productive discussion.

I think that the experience of people actually posting in the thread, who have actually been to The Violet Hour, is a better way to evaluate the quality of their service.

Dmnkly wrote:For starters, there is a world of difference between expecting a restaurant to be willing to throw together a customer's simple off-menu request from ingredients on hand, and another thing entirely to expect them to stock ingredients that aren't used for their menu expressly for that purpose.

If you open a Mexican restaurant that doesn't serve tortilla chips or guacamole, or a Chinese restaurant that doesn't serve egg rolls or fortune cookies, you need to be prepared that random folks visiting for the first time are likely to ask for those items.

If you don't want to serve them, that's your privilege, but it isn't unreasonable for people who don't know what it's all about to ask for them, or for customers who want a specific thing they're expecting to be a little annoyed when they can't get it. Aschie's post implied that the "North Shore types," er, "yuppies of a certain age" were boors even to ask, and that they should have known all about the Violet Hour's shtick before they got there.

Dmnkly wrote:Fourthly, I'm puzzled by this attitude that there is some standard that all bars must meet in terms of what is offered and available. If anything that isn't standard is bad by definition, than all we'll ever have is standard bars, and that strikes me as incredibly boring. If you don't like it for what it is, that's fine, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. If to depart from a standard in an effort to try something different and refreshing is, as you claim, arrogant, than I submit that what the world needs is a lot more arrogance. And I fail to see how the fact that the customers were ignorant of the nature of the establishment somehow means they're then entitled to whatever they expected.

Those are my standards. I'm not saying you have to agree with them. I started out noting that -- in my opinion -- a bar that doesn't stock tonic water is flawed. I like tonic water. If they don't have Coca-Cola, that will be a point against them for me, too. I like fine cocktails, but if I spend a long night in a bar, about half my drinks are likely to be tonic or Coke -- more, if I'm the designated driver -- and I enjoy a variety of cocktails based on them, too, so those are important to me.

I also said that aspects of their practice as reported strike me as arrogant. No one has disputed that those are their practices; they've just excused them or disagreed with my opinion of them.

It isn't arrogance to try something different. Add new, different, exciting items, great. Bump up the quality, wonderful. But just as the example of no salt and pepper says "Our taste is better than yours," a deliberate decision not to supply a popular item that many people are sure to ask for sends the message, "We don't want people who drink cosmos as our customers."

How that can be anything except arrogance? They're perfectly entitled to be arrogant, and obviously some people are attracted to that attitude. I'm just saying that the reports here are making this sound more and more like a place I won't care to visit.

I'm sorry that strikes you as "looking very hard to pick a fight."

LAZ wrote:If you open a Mexican restaurant that doesn't serve tortilla chips or guacamole, or a Chinese restaurant that doesn't serve egg rolls or fortune cookies, you need to be prepared that random folks visiting for the first time are likely to ask for those items.

LAZ,

In the case of the Violet Hour a more apt analogy would be a customer in a Thai or Japanese restaurant asking for egg rolls or fortune cookies. Violet Hour is a very specific type of bar, terrific from scratch cocktails with a healthy side of affectation. I was prepared not to like the Violet Hour, but found myself easily scumming to it's charms.

Enjoy,
Gary

LAZ wrote:It isn't arrogance to try something different. Add new, different, exciting items, great. Bump up the quality, wonderful. But just as the example of no salt and pepper says "Our taste is better than yours," a deliberate decision not to supply a popular item that many people are sure to ask for sends the message, "We don't want people who drink cosmos as our customers."

Is it similarly arrogant for Spacca Napoli not to offer the full complement of "standard" pizza toppings that many people are sure to ask for? Or for Hopleaf not to carry the MGD that many people are sure to ask for? Or for Chiyo not to serve the elaborate, mayonnaisey neo-maki that many people are sure to ask for?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm honestly trying to get a handle on how this standard does and doesn't apply to different places. I'm struggling to understand how failing to be everything to everybody isn't just a fault, but worthy of derision.

There's no standard, Dom. The whole argument is based on the dubious premise that the measure of Alinea's quality is whether they'll whip you up a grilled cheese sandwich when you walk in off the street. To me that's about like saying the measure of Steppenwolf is whether the cast could interrupt August: Osage County and go into an extemporaneous tap number set to "God Bless America."

Isn't one of the points of this forum to assess places based on others' accounts of their experiences?

I suppose there's some limited value to secondhand, non-personal-experience discussion of this sort, but it's precisely the ones not rooted in actual observation and facts that get so wound up and go on and on-- to no clear value to the site or other users that I can see.

LAZ wrote:
Not long ago I had a conversation with a chef about his early career, and he told me this story: A customer came in and ordered a glass of milk with his dinner. They didn't have milk on the menu and it happened they didn't use it for cooking. So they sent a busboy to the supermarket. Ultimately, the customer complained about it taking so long to get a glass of milk, so they placated him by taking it off his check.

I see that as an total A-Hole who never should have been accommodated in the first place.

I was at the Violet Hour a couple of weeks ago with a recent escapee from Columbus, and we both commented and laughed about how were the place open in Columbus, it would be just as crowded only all the Columbus scenesters would be there just because it was a trendy place to be seen but would still have their Bud Lights in their hands.

Be thankful that you live in a city where it's possible for places to thrive without catering to the lowest common denominator.

As far as those North Shore Types go, let them go to the thousand other bars in the city that cater to a lowest common denominator mentality. Don't insist on going somewhere solely because you want to play at being sophisticated and insist on dragging it down to your level. Charlie Trotter is absolutely correct when he said that sometimes the customer needs to be fired.

Sam Harmon wrote:As far as those North Shore Types go, let them go to the thousand other bars in the city that cater to a lowest common denominator mentality. Don't insist on going somewhere solely because you want to play at being sophisticated and insist on dragging it down to your level. Charlie Trotter is absolutely correct when he said that sometimes the customer needs to be fired.

Charlie Trotter is an interesting analogy. IIRC, for a long time Trotters didn't serve hard liquor, so any diners looking for a pre-dinner cocktail were SOL. Maybe that's changed in recent years, but I think it's an interesting comparison. Presumably there were times when Trotter might have had hard liquor in his kitchen for use as a cooking ingredient, but that didn't mean he'd pour you a glass of Scotch just because he happened to have it on hand.

Mike G wrote:To me that's about like saying the measure of Steppenwolf is whether the cast could interrupt August: Osage County and go into an extemporaneous tap number set to "God Bless America."

chgoeditor wrote:

Sam Harmon wrote:As far as those North Shore Types go, let them go to the thousand other bars in the city that cater to a lowest common denominator mentality. Don't insist on going somewhere solely because you want to play at being sophisticated and insist on dragging it down to your level. Charlie Trotter is absolutely correct when he said that sometimes the customer needs to be fired.

Charlie Trotter is an interesting analogy. IIRC, for a long time Trotters didn't serve hard liquor, so any diners looking for a pre-dinner cocktail were SOL. Maybe that's changed in recent years, but I think it's an interesting comparison. Presumably there were times when Trotter might have had hard liquor in his kitchen for use as a cooking ingredient, but that didn't mean he'd pour you a glass of Scotch just because he happened to have it on hand.

I believe that's still the case, though they have some dessert cordials and such. But if you want to start your meal with a vodka tonic at Trotter's, I believe you're out of luck.

As far as bars 'needing' to stock certain things, I recall an evening at Jerry's (on Division) last summer -- a group of people sat down and immediately requested a round of Miller Lite. Granted, the tome that is Jerry's beer list (and say what you will about the food, their beer list is one of the most admirable in the city, IMHO) is dense and a little hard to sort through, but as it turned out, Miller Lite can't be found in there. They don't stock it. The closest they had (have?) was Goose Island's 312 which is considered "lite" only because it has 120 calories. I applaud Jerry's for committing to quality beer (again, don't get me started on the food) -- and, really, with so many bars nearby, good for them for trying something different.

And good for Violet Hour for not stocking cranberry juice (as an example) if they don't want to. Maybe they can't find a vendor with high-quality juice, or maybe they can't make it themselves between batches of homemade bitters. It's not like they don't have other drinks that are much better than a garden-variety cosmo, anyway.

As an aside, I'm not always a fan of the idea that the customer is always right. If a customer is far too wasted/inebriated to pay attention to the bartender (and I mean that in general, not with specific reagards to the described incident that has set off this debate), maybe it's best that the bartender does what he/she can do to so that he/she can get back to the other patrons who are waiting to be served, too.

G Wiv wrote: I was prepared not to like the Violet Hour, but found myself easily scumming to it's charms.

Enjoy,
Gary

Gary, that proves little. Anyone who knows you knows how easily scummed you are.

Hi

Just signed up for this site... wading through all of the good posts and discovering lots of great places to eat and drink... thanks for everyone's input.

This Violet Hour thread has been particularly fascinating; praise for this place has been universal elsewhere, it is interesting to see such a debate going on.

My comments on Violet Hour are here:

http://www.cocktailsnob.com/

JeffB wrote:Gary, that proves little. Anyone who knows you knows how easily scummed you are.

Boy oh Boy, now that's a typo!!

Please read...........succumbing

G Wiv wrote:

JeffB wrote:Gary, that proves little. Anyone who knows you knows how easily scummed you are.

Boy oh Boy, now that's a typo!!

Please read...........succumbing

ahhh...someone just had to go and call it: I was quite enjoying that "slip" I hoped was intentional

I read Gary's comment as an intentional triple-entendre, employing the wrong "it's" after "scumming" to indict the poor grammarians who are in much need of a good tonic.

Thanks to a supremely well-organized event by happy_stomach, I was able to sample virtually all of the Spring food menu and half of the drink offerings tonight in great company. Hits for me were:

- Palmer d'Or, with a complex and inviting black tea aroma
- Americano, perfect balance of bitter and sweet with quite a fashionable garnish and the tall ice
- Spring Sazerac with apricot and Peychaud's

Dark and Stormy was good as usual, but I prefer a cane sugar flavor and sharper ginger bite to the molasses notes in their syrup. I missed the Pulque entirely. The mint julep was competent, traditionally served and garnished, and did a nice job of perfuming our corner, though I like more icy liquid and less sticky sweet when enjoying one of these out in actual daylight. Everything else was as strong and deceptively smooth as usual, but things start to run together - and not just because of the potency - for the multiple homogenous drinks containing several spirits and bitters at the same time with no layering, ice, or garnish.

I'm still completely missing a truly savory drink here. The Juliet has cucumber, but it's subdued to aromatherapy levels by rosewater and mint instead of punched up by a good acid or spice. The margarita underutilizes their tasty bitters and has no salty kick to give dimension to the sourness. I'd kill for a michelada, a Bloody Mary, or even a Salty Dog*, all of which they'd do really well, with house-made sangrita or other savory condiments. I'm not going to fight for tonic here, but I will clamor for something for us woodland creatures looking for an upscale salt lick to match their colognes and fruit infusions.

The salty kitchen snacks help somewhat. I do like the sandwiches, particularly the olive and mushroom varieties on crisp buttered toast points; the heat-shriveled prosciutto didn't really do it for me on the fig and mint version tonight, however. Deep-fried bites (beans, pickles) and duck meatballs still seem the most reliable.

One outright negative tonight is the manner in which we were initially received. They opened on the late side of 6, fretted at the idea of a party of 16 (even with jp's advance text message and a calm and upbeat greeting by hs), and were not too polite with the distribution of the carafe-only menu (understandable in theory) and morosely-intoned edict against individual drink orders in a party of our size. Their solution to sit us at two adjacent tables of four with eight cube seats was unimaginative, and ultimately failed - half the party just sat or stood at the bar, leaving them unsure whether to release our second table or not until some time had passed. I have been in the joint with non-LTH groups of 9 and 12 before where no carafe menu was pushed on us, and where more importantly they allowed us to arrange the highback chairs in the main room in a comfortable circle in the corner, creating a semi-private lounge space sheltered by the heavy curtains against the east wall. Had we been able to configure ourselves - we were the first patrons of the night, after all - our ordering and mingling could have been more comfortably coordinated, with all dishes and drinks making the rounds.

To their credit, after a staff-only powwow (during which they did not want to be approached or interrupted, even though I don't believe they had collected all of the relevant information), we were approached and offered a calm explanation of the drink preparation pacing, and a compromise, that we could order six individual drinks and one carafe at a time. The server turned out to have a vice-like memory, and mastery and personal enjoyment of the menu, which was very nice. We got all of the drinks we had wanted to try and fully enjoyed ourselves.

This all points to the fact that they're busy and popular now, and know it. For a Monday night, they filled up quickly and were packed to the gills by the time we departed. I can picture some larger groups being very disruptive to the pace and vibe, but since we showed up respectfully at opening time and communicated clearly our plans and desires, I think they could have handled us better from the outset if not for the (correct) sense of the impending crush they had. So take note: if you show up in a large party, be prepared to order drinks by the carafe instead of individually mixed, and to be directed to where the staff thinks it can handle and keep you out of the way best. This may be self-evident, but many of us were spoiled by more tailored attention in the spot's early history. The optimal way to experience Violet Hour seems to remain in a pair or fewsome at the bar, where you can actually read the menu, view the mixcraft, and get some good tincture pointers from the tenders.

* to which I like to add a non-canonical shot of Maggi or Worchestershire

The outing with LTH folks was fun. I agree that a nice way to visit this place is probably with a much smaller group, sitting at the bar. A few of us got a chance to sit there, and talk with the bartender, taste some ingredients separately before tasting the drink they were in, discuss methods, etc.

I didn't get to taste as many drinks, though that was probably for the best I did make it home just fine (though when I got home I had to vacuum up the mess the dogs had made with 2 potted plants they pulled off the counter. Sigh)

Anyway, I'm not sure I'll rush back to Violet Hour. I appreciate what they are doing, but I'm more into wine than mixed drinks. And though the food was tasty, it was quite greasy (I had such heartburn, oy!)

aschie30 wrote:Last night, I lost a couple of very enjoyable hours at the Violet Hour. I find that a bar seat here means that not only are you guaranteed easygoing conversation with the affable bartenders, but that they will volunteer lots of pointers and secret tips about their drink making, assuming you show genuine interest first. It's well worth the experience just for that.

I'm on record as loving the Dark N' Stormy and I still do. That drink is pure melodrama. And not just because of its foreboding name or appearance, with the dark cruzan blackstrap "cloud" floating ominously over the drink -- but also in taste. The spiciness of the ginger and rum almost overwhelmed me until the sweeter and more acidic elements of the drink kick in at the last second to soothe. Not a drink for the weak of heart, I don't think.

Enough blabbing about that old drink. A Daisy de Santiago rum and mint drink had more heft than a mojito and made me dream about South America. But that compared not at all to what I think is now my second favorite drink there. The NY sour is a perfect balance of Plymouth Gin, Rose wine, egg whites and orange flower water. (It becomes a "NY" sour if it's topped with a wine float, I was told.) The egg whites provided an egg-noggy frothiness, the orange flower played with but didn't overwhelm the gin, and the rose wine smoothed it all out. I asked which rose they used because I find rose to be a varying type of wine, ranging in taste from vinegar to strawberries. They used a Spanish rose, which I think explains why it mixed so well in that drink.

The highlight of the evening, however, was the group of obviously wealthy persons who might be characterized by some as "yuppies" of a certain age (and I mean no offense to "yuppies" anywhere) who seemingly wandered in off the street after hitting several other bars hard earlier in the night. They seemed to be completely oblivious to the Violet Hour's "schtick" and sauntered up to the bar, barking orders for off-the-menu drinks. It devolved into a "Who's on First?" routine as one of men in the group stepped up to the bartender to order for his group. He started out by asking for a Grey Goose and tonic. The bartender responded: "For vodkas tonight, we only have Pearl, Ketel One and Luksusowa. And we don't have tonic." Male Customer: "Okay, I'll have a Ketel One and tonic then." [Bartender winces, and Male Customer gets a Ketel One and soda.] Next order: "I'll have an Absolut Cosmo." [Sigh.] Bartender: "We don't have Absolut. And we don't carry bottled juices. We fresh squeeze all of our juices here." Male Customer: "Nobody asked you for bottled juice. [Cue annoyance by Male Customer.] What are you talking about?" Bartender: "Your cosmo has cranberry juice. We don't have any bottled juices." Male Customer: "You don't carry cranberry juice?" Bartender: "It's next to impossible to fresh squeeze cranberry juice, sir." Male Customer: "All right, I'll have a Ketel One on the rocks." [YEAH!] Next order: "I'll have a Bailey's and cream [!?] on the rocks." Bartender: "We don't have Bailey's but I can make a Bailey's from scratch (and he goes to describe to describe how he'd make this luscious drink way superior to bottled Bailey's). Male Customer: "Whatever. And I'll have a "White" Chardonnay." [As the Violet Hour didn't have a Chardonnay on the menu, I chuckled as I saw the poor, abused bartender take out a bottle of Naia (not Chardonnay), pour it and hand it over. They were none the wiser. ]

Good times.

Edited to remove any "unnecessary" stereotypical references which were only meant to be illustrative and not intended to offend anyone, or characterize anyone on the basis of race, color, religion or ethnicity. (Disclaimer over.)

Hi,
My name is Toby Maloney and I would like to make a couple of comments on this post.

I was not there that night but after working for years at places like Grange Hall, Milk & Honey, Flatiron, Pegu, Freeman's, and The Violet Hour and I have gone through this painful scenerio umpteen times. Like these places TVH is not a bar for everone everynight. I get the feeling that these customers were more than a bit drunk, so they were gong to be aggravated no matter what. A crowd like this will ruin eveyones night. They will be loud, fall all over the ladies at the bar, and abuse the bartender. I"m not saying that this is what happened, but it is possible that the bartender was trying to make it clear to the group that they were in the wrong bar for where they were in the night. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a few to save the many. This could have been a gental 86ing. If this same group had been in for their first drink I am positive that things would have gone very differently.

I am sure that TVH has tonic, we actually have 2 kinds of tonic. We DO NOT have cranberry. That is because I have not found a way to make a fanstastic fresh squeezed cranberry juice. I must admit I have spent exactly no time at all researching it. Even If I did I'm not sure if I would. There are only so many hours in the day and it takes the bartenders three hours to set up their mise. If it comes down to the choice of fresh squeezed cran (for kettle and Cran's and Cosmos) and homemade Grenidine, and in house bitters, well that seems like a no brainer.

Maybe I missed all the classic cocktails in Thomas, Baker, and Emburey with cranberry juice in them.

The bottles on your back bar are like the bar's frenology. They are unique and they convey what type of establishment you are. There are 10 bottles of Pisco on the back bar at TVH, and not one bottle of vodka. That is not by accident.

I am all for gin and tonics, rum and cokes, bottles of cheap beer, shots of Jeager, whoo-hooing, moshing, shotgunning, singing along to the Sex Pistols at the top of your lungs, and jumping up and down when you see a friend. As are the bartenders at TVH, for I have seen most of them do one or more of these things, sometimes a few of them at the same time. But there is a time and a place for those very fun activities, and I would venture that TVH is not that place. Exit may not be the place to order a Mint Julip and a Queens Park swizzle. I believe that you should pick your drinking establishment as carefully as you pick where you will eat.

Toby
partner/head mixologist The Violet Hour

Well said, Toby, and thank you for the information, for contributing your view to the conversation, and also for being upfront and open about who you are (which, sadly, cannot be said for all industry professionals who stop by to write about their establishments).

I am all for gin and tonics, rum and cokes, bottles of cheap beer, shots of Jeager, whoo-hooing, moshing, shotgunning, singing along to the Sex Pistols at the top of your lungs, and jumping up and down when you see a friend. As are the bartenders at TVH, for I have seen most of them do one or more of these things, sometimes a few of them at the same time.

Yah, you should have seen last time Michael was at Moonshine, bottle of budweiser in one hand, ordering up cement mixers for the entire bar and jumping up and down like a little schoolgirl when he saw my fiancee come in. He was just so excited, can you blame him?

jpschust wrote:Yah, you should have seen last time Michael was at Moonshine, bottle of budweiser in one hand, ordering up cement mixers for the entire bar and jumping up and down like a little schoolgirl when he saw my fiancee come in. He was just so excited, can you blame him?

Hmmm, should anyone, but you, be THAT excited to see YOUR fiancee?

Just asking.

Thanks for ringing in Toby, love the Hour, love it's not just like every other bar in the 'hood, keep up the good work.

Besides calling your vodka? I don't want to start a fight, but by definition all of them should taste exactly alike...

SSDD

ha.

By definition all vodka should taste like nothing, but in reality that's not the case.

jpschust wrote:ha.

By definition all vodka should taste like nothing, but in reality that's not the case.

I know, but of all spirts, it is vodka I have the least respect for, and paying $50 a bottle for something that isn't supposed to taste like anything, nuts I say! And flavored vodka? Just drink Gin, the original infusion!

headcase wrote:

jpschust wrote:ha.

By definition all vodka should taste like nothing, but in reality that's not the case.

I know, but of all spirts, it is vodka I have the least respect for, and paying $50 a bottle for something that isn't supposed to taste like anything, nuts I say! And flavored vodka? Just drink Gin, the original infusion!

You're not going to find any argument from me here. I really only use vodka to infuse flavors as it acts like a blank slate.

Hi, Toby here again, with an update on my last post. Sorry to take away from the v*&ka discussion.

So I had a cocktail with the bartender in question. He remembered the incident. Or one just like it. I hope the original poster does not take this as an attempt to clear the bartender of any wrong doing.

In his memory there was a mention of the two tonics, and they went with the Q. Then the folks who ordered Rum and cokes got Charles H. Bakers Cuba Libres, analyzed, and improved, with a dash or three of Angostura if I know that bartender. He said that about half of the people loved what they got and the other half just didn’t get it. That is a very good % in my opinion.

On the wine issue. In a perfect world there would be time for everything. But a bartender needs to prioritize when it’s busy. If there is a choice between a three minute discussion on a Chard (for someone who Chard is synonymous with white wine) and three minutes of making cocktails…

I feel that the bartenders and servers at TVH are a very, very hard working, knowledgeable bunch. I think they do a great job of imparting knowledge with out being pretentious. They will happily guide you through your evening of drinking. They will go out of their way to get you just want you want. If TVH doesn’t have what you want they will try their best to bring you something better. When faced with a group of drunk, obstreperous people clamoring for goose and sodas… Well sometimes you have to pick your battles.

Toby Maloney
Partner/Head Mixologist The Violet Hour

Alchemist wrote:So I had a cocktail with the bartender in question. He remembered the incident. Or one just like it. I hope the original poster does not take this as an attempt to clear the bartender of any wrong doing.

Toby-

I was the original poster you are referring to, I think. While I think the bartender is recounting a different incident from the one I recall -- it doesn't matter to me, anyway -- I want to be clear to you that I don't think the bartender did anything wrong. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my above posts. I was very sympathetic to his situation and thought he did a good job in what could have turned into a very nasty situation, through no fault of his own. I hope you'll pass that along to him, from a fairly regular patron of TVH.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon how you look at it, much of the debate above was very tangential and hypothetical. People on this board are very passionate about their food and drink, the by-product of which results in some very lengthy and heated debates. In all, I think very few people attributed any wrongdoing to the bartender or TVH.

But, I appreciate your classy and conscientious follow-up on this issue.

LTHFourm

This post may be edited as soon as I stop drinking the beautiful green stuff.

Ok, a situation such as this is oft repeated in bars that aren't Normal. So I will grill my barkeeps until I find the offending party. They will be dragged over the coals of Chartreause, hung on the rack of Mathuselem, and waterboarded in Miller High Life. Promise. Like at Guantamamo, I will get an answer.

It can be amusing to see a fish out of water, you know, a yahoo who doesn't know which is the fish fork, or a yokel who thinks that a Goose martini, dirty, is the pentultiment cocktail. But the hard part is to not laugh in their face and walk away, as I have been guilty of more than once, more than twice. One should not have to read the manuel to have a drink or a meal, but it certainly helps to have at least perused the Cliff's notes. There are people who, me included, go out for the same thing week after week. But when faced with the strange and foreign, we as consumers must not be xenophobic.

It is the job of the staff of every great establishment to make the vast majority of the people have a great time. There will ALWAYS be people who are not as well taken care of as others. I am re-reading Kitchen Confidential for the umpeenth time. This is why so many restaurant critics go for autonomy. Ask any waiter who they will spend more time with: The "well done filet with your cheapest glass of red" or the "medium rare porterhouse and a bottle of Bordeaux?" The same goes for a bartender.

I know that in my 20 some-odd years in the hosptality I can tell you I am blind to class, socio-economic status, wardrobe, accountrements, or profession. I also do not take in to account how one speaks, the amount of high fiving in the party, the pitch of giggling, or the amount of Bacardi and Diets and Stoli Vanillias and sodas (it's low cal you know) in any way whatsoever. Really, I swear.

I very much may be beating a horse that is not only dead but rotting. But all I want is for this country, is to have good, fresh food and drinks prepared with love and care prepared for people who appreciate it. I promise, to the American public, and all patriots, to stop watching political speeches while posting.

Thank you, my friends, my family, those who have served with me in the trenches, as well all who have done time in the Manhattan Marriot. i must also acknowledge everyone I have ever known, hung out with, kissed, talked to or met, god bless Rye...

Toby