Whiskey for an Old Fashioned or Manhattan?

I've begun exploring cocktails, and LTHers were kind enough to help out a few weeks ago on some equipment suggestions. Now my wife has requested an Old Fashioned or a Manhattan. What's a moderately priced whiskey that would work for drinks of this kind? I'm not on a tight budget, but neither of us like sipping the stuff straight, so it will be used solely for cocktails.

Thanks,
Jonah

A Manhattan should be made with Rye. Perhaps the best bang for your buck spirit on the market today is Rittenhouse 100 Bonded Rye. You should find it in most stores for around $20.

I like the Weller range of Bourbons for an Old Fashioned...the 107 has a ton of character, but I've heard more than one person complain it has banana notes that they dislike. The 7 yr old Weller Special Reserve is very hard to beat. Both should be around $17-$20.

For my Manny's, I've recently switched to (ri)1 Rye.

Around $30 - $35.

Prior to that, I used Templeton Rye but who can find that anymore?

kl1191 wrote:A Manhattan should be made with Rye. Perhaps the best bang for your buck spirit on the market today is Rittenhouse 100 Bonded Rye. You should find it in most stores for around $20.

I like the Weller range of Bourbons for an Old Fashioned...the 107 has a ton of character, but I've heard more than one person complain it has banana notes that they dislike. The 7 yr old Weller Special Reserve is very hard to beat. Both should be around $17-$20.

While I really do like the Rittenhouse 100, the price on it has really gone up over the last couple of years; it was readily available for less than $10 two or three years ago. I still like it alot, but think it works better in slightly more complex drinks than the two mentioned. I find in the sub-$30 price range that the Sazerac 6yr is worth the 5 or 6 dollar up charge over the Rittenhouse. And I also prefer Rye in my Old Fashioneds as well as my Manhattans.

SSDD

DMChicago wrote:Prior to that, I used Templeton Rye but who can find that anymore?

I went through a bottle of Templeton in about two weeks just making Sazeracs shortly after it was released. It's a delicious spirit, but I can't abide an 80 proof whiskey...it's just not right. Strikes me as altogether too sweet.

headcase wrote:While I really do like the Rittenhouse 100, the price on it has really gone up over the last couple of years; it was readily available for less than $10 two or three years ago.

I really stocked up during the $20-for-$40 Fox & Obel Groupon...made the price of a bottle effectively $10, and brought me back to the days when it was unquestionably the king of cheap whiskey. That said, the versatility is still a steal at $20 imo. I never have fewer than 2 bottles in the house, as a Manhattan with Rittenhouse and Punt e Mes is my usual.

ETA: Re: the rising price, I'd much rather have it on the shelves at $20 then sold out everywhere in town at $12, which was the case not too long ago.

And don't forget Old Overholt. It's a step down from the ryes mentioned in this thread but, at about $15 a fifth, I think it's the best whiskey bargain out there in terms of quality for price. It's my standard whiskey for Old Fashioned. I don't really drink Manhattans, though, so I can't help you with that.

A good inexpensive whiskey to try is Benchmark. I also like Weller's products. A step up from these in terms of price is Bullet.

If you are near West Lakeview Liquors, they have a great selection and are pretty knowledgeable about steering you to a good option. They also have tastings.

Manhattans are traditionally made with Rye, but many bars serve them with bourbon. If you are just starting to experiment and don't want to buy a bottle of each, just go with bourbon for each (or rye for each).

West Lakeview Liquors
2156 West Addison Street, Chicago, IL 60618
Phone: 773.525.1916
http://www.wlvliquors.com/

Thanks. The suggestions are just what I need.

Jonah

don't forget the Angostura bitters--i'm really one to talk because i never use bitters in my Manhattans which are 2 Makers to 1 sweet vermouth... so that especially makes me one to talk (not!) i think the real recipie is 5 rye 2 sweet vermouth, dash bitters and the cherry...

does anyone know if Binny's carries the bitters? i haven't been able to find them, though i easily get lost @ their Niles store

I think that a 2-to-1 ratio of bourbon/rye to vermouth is pretty standard, although it is a good idea to experiment with the proportions to see what you like.

I would be shocked if Binny's didn't have Angostura bitters. Jewel may even have them - they are pretty widely available. A place like Binny's, or West Lakeview, will have a nice selection of other bitters also. Try Regan's Orange Bitters, Peychaud's, etc.

Also, this is the time of year to make your own cocktail cherries. They are far better than the canned marachinos in the store. See this earlier post:

viewtopic.php?p=141778#p141778

Last year I experimented with putting some simple syrup in the mixture along with alcohol. This seemed to allow the cherries to retain their texture better throughout the year. In fact, I still have a lot of the cherries that I made last summer and they are still great. Without the sugar, they'd be a little mushy by now.

Darren72 wrote:Also, this is the time of year to make your own cocktail cherries. They are far better than the canned marachinos in the store. See this earlier post:

viewtopic.php?p=141778#p141778

Last year I experimented with putting some simple syrup in the mixture along with alcohol. This seemed to allow the cherries to retain their texture better throughout the year. In fact, I still have a lot of the cherries that I made last summer and they are still great. Without the sugar, they'd be a little mushy by now.

Darren-

Thanks for bringing that link back up. I remember reading it too late in the summer last year. I think we even have some clean mason jars in the basement!

-Mary

Darren72 wrote:Also, this is the time of year to make your own cocktail cherries. They are far better than the canned marachinos in the store. See this earlier post:

viewtopic.php?p=141778#p141778

Last year I experimented with putting some simple syrup in the mixture along with alcohol. This seemed to allow the cherries to retain their texture better throughout the year. In fact, I still have a lot of the cherries that I made last summer and they are still great. Without the sugar, they'd be a little mushy by now.

Darren,

I'm really interested in making my own cherries for Manhattans, since my favorite versions seem to always contain some sort of housemade cherries. I have a huge bag of cherries sitting in my fridge right now and this seems like the perfect application. I'm curious to know what type of alcohol you use and approximately what ratio of alcohol to syrup? Thanks for any information you can provide.

Dan

I really enjoy Bulleit bourbon in an Old Fashioned; the way they are made at Bar DeVille (no fruit other than lemon and orange zest. I agree about Rittenhouse 100 being good in Manhattans but I also like the Van Winkle 13-year family reserve and Templeton, too.

I've seen Angostura bitters at just about every Binny's I've been to lately. Whatever supply issues had come up appear to be over.

As for cherries, here's a recipe a chef shared with me that is/was sensational:

1 liter brandy
750g water
500g sugar
-bring to a boil, pour over fruit in sterilized jars, process in boiling water bath

I've also done this with inexpensive cognac and had fantastic results.

=R=

Dan, this isn't going to be the most helpful answer, but here goes:

I originally made these with Kirschwasser (which is a cherry brandy, you can get it at Binny's, among other places). Later I started making some with whiskey because I usually use the cherries in whiskey drinks.

Last year I ran out of the kirschwasser and whiskey and still had some cherries. I realized I had a big bottle of vodka that I never use, so I made some with that. I also tend to add spices to the mix (esp when I used vodka). I can report that the cherries were great no matter which alcohol I used. You can detect differences in the taste across all three types of alcohol, but all three work well in Manhattans. My advice is to buy a mid-priced bottle (Benchmark whiskey, for example) of whichever you feel like using.

You can also use Luxardo Maraschino liquor, which is what maraschino cherries were originally packed (and why they are now called Maraschino cherries). But this stuff is a bit too pricey for this application, I think.

Syrup. Last year was the first year that I used sugar or syrup. If you have "bar sugar," aka "superfine sugar," you can use that instead of making syrup. Superfine sugar is available at Jewel (this might be the only think that I buy at Jewel, frankly), but isn't at most smaller grocery stores or Whole Foods, as far as I know. Superfine sugar is basically sugar that is ground finer than regular sugar. Unlike regular sugar, it dissolves in cold liquids quite easily. It is therefore good to use in cocktails and in making brines. Anyways, you can make a simple syrup or use Superfine sugar in the cherries.

Here is the least helpful part of this post: I don't remember how much sugar/syrup I used. I also don't remember if I used syrup or Superfine sugar! My recollection is that I used a couple of tablespoons of syrup or sugar per quart-sized mason jar. I don't think the exact amount is particularly magical - they will just be a little more or less sweet. You can always make one batch sweeter than the other to experiment.

I just consulted two recipes that may be more helpful: both recommend 1/4 cup of sugar per 2 cups of alcohol. (If you use syrup, you'd use a little more than 1/4 cup of syrup per 2 cups of alcohol.) The thing is you won't know exactly how much alcohol you need until you pack the jars with cherries.

This year I will do the following:

1. Pack mason jars with rinsed (but not pitted) sour cherries.

2. Add to each jar about 2 tablespoons of Superfine sugar or about a 1/4 cup of syrup. Add a mixture of spices to each jar (clove, cinnamon, etc.)

3. Fill each jar with alcohol.

4. Seal the jars, shake lightly, and store in the fridge. Don't use for at least a week or so, but give them a shake every few days during the first week just to make sure everything is mixed.

You will notice a big difference between my version and Ronnie's: he heats the brandy and then processed the jars in a hot water bath. I've tried this and find that the texture of the cherries deteriorates faster than leaving everything cold. Note that if you leave everything cold, you need to store the cherries in the fridge. They will keep for at least a year (at which point fresh cherries will be available to make a new batch).

Thanks Ronnie & Darren, definitely going to try one of these methods out, probably with a small batch to start.

Darren72 wrote:You will notice a big difference between my version and Ronnie's: he heats the brandy and then processed the jars in a hot water bath. I've tried this and find that the texture of the cherries deteriorates faster than leaving everything cold. Note that if you leave everything cold, you need to store the cherries in the fridge. They will keep for at least a year (at which point fresh cherries will be available to make a new batch).

Shelf-stability is a nice thing to have. But I also make a few jars for myself, which I simply store in the fridge. I haven't noticed a huge difference in cherry quality between the 2 methods (the main issue is pitting, which does more to tear up the cherries than anything else). But since I make many small jars and give them away throughout the year, I like the traditional canning method a lot.

=R=

I gave away some jars a year or two ago...and I'm pretty sure none have ever been used!

Darren72 wrote:I gave away some jars a year or two ago...and I'm pretty sure none have ever been used!

You should be able to reclaim them!

=R=

well, finally got some Angostura bitters in my shoddy 2:1 Makers Manhattan and i have to say the bitters make a BIG difference. what an excellent cocktail

ill just ad that old overholt can be found at foremost liquors on argyle for about $16 a bottle with tax, but i havent seen it at any other location or liquor store. tell me others please! Also if anyone can tell me where to find rittenhouse 100 for around $20 than i would be very happy. i have seen Wild turkey rye at another foremost and the formost liquors on milwaukee has the best selection of bitters of anywhere i have seen.

thorough wrote:ill just ad that old overholt can be found at foremost liquors on argyle for about $16 a bottle with tax, but i havent seen it at any other location or liquor store. tell me others please! Also if anyone can tell me where to find rittenhouse 100 for around $20 than i would be very happy. i have seen Wild turkey rye at another foremost and the formost liquors on milwaukee has the best selection of bitters of anywhere i have seen.

I've purchased Old Overholt Rye at Binny's in Highland Park for about $12/bottle, iirc. I'm guessing they carry it at all their stores.

=R=

thorough wrote:ill just ad that old overholt can be found at foremost liquors on argyle for about $16 a bottle with tax, but i havent seen it at any other location or liquor store. tell me others please! Also if anyone can tell me where to find rittenhouse 100 for around $20 than i would be very happy. i have seen Wild turkey rye at another foremost and the formost liquors on milwaukee has the best selection of bitters of anywhere i have seen.

Old Overholt is about $15 per fifth at Binny's now (Although used to be $12, as ronnie_suburban recalls). You can also get a bottle of the bonded Rittenhouse at Binny's, for $20.

Edited to fix a typo.

how does old olverholt compare to wild turkey rye?

MBK wrote:how does old olverholt compare to wild turkey rye?

Overholt is kind of the classic flavor of rye, not as spicy as the WT101. Sadly, in its current incarnation it's another 80 proof whiskey, which I refuse to use in a drink that's more than 1/2 Rye (Manhattans, Old Fashioneds, etc.). In those cases I'm almost certainly using something that's at least 90 proof, and preferably 100.

If you live in Wisconsin, Old Fashioneds and Manhattans default to Brandy. When I bartended at the Hyatt in Milwaukee, while in college, we actually were told to inquire if the guests were local or not, that determined how you made their drinks!

Cinnamon Girl wrote:If you live in Wisconsin, Old Fashioneds and Manhattans default to Brandy. When I bartended at the Hyatt in Milwaukee, while in college, we actually were told to inquire if the guests were local or not, that determined how you made their drinks!

That's funny. Did you get any requests for blackberry brandy old fashioneds?

Old fashioneds in Wisconsin are pretty messed up. People order them "sweet" or "sour" or whatever else...sometimes they have Sprite or 50/50 soda in them, other times there's olives. It's entirely the opposite of the concept of the old fashioned...a return to the classic definition of a cocktail (spirit, sugar, bitters, water).

I'll prob get flames for this, but if you're not a big whisky drinker I'd go with Four Roses yellow label for about 18 bucks. It's a bargain for the complexity and finish this bourbon has. It's really smooth stuff. Try substituting .24 oz grade b maple syrup instead of simple for something different.

Four Roses is not a wheated bourbon. In fact IIRC they use a relatively high percentage of rye in their mash.

They're not my favorite but hell I'm not gonna flame you about it.