Starbucks true to form: oy veh

Not that Starbucks bashing breaks any new ground, but I needed a quick vent.

Received a gift card from a work colleague and so ventured in for the first time in years. (Clark/Belmont outpost.)

Doing a brisk business and handling it well, the line moved efficiently and so I hadn't quite made up my mind when I arrived at the counter.

Knowing that they do make a big deal out of training and tasting and education (and that founder Schultz likes to take credit for revolutionizing all of America's coffee palate), I asked what went into one of the 3 or 4 whimsically named multi-regional blends.

What I got in return was the blank stare you see on Wile E. Cayote after he slams into a sheer rock face.

Then you could virtually hear the gears starting painfully to grind and attempt to mesh. He looked at the board and decided to buy time by reading it to me: "These are the regions where we get our coffee...Africa...Cantral America...and the multi-region blends come from all these regions..."

I was witness to so much discomfort that I felt that to ask another question would make me into an interrogator at Abu Ghraib. But I also couldn't think of a form of "never mind" that didn't sound deliberately insulting, and I also really wanted to know. So I tride once more: Yes, understand that the multi-regional blends are made up of coffees from different regions. Can you tell me which coffees go into the different blends? I.e. how is Estrella different from Serenissima (or whatever they were called)?

"Well, um, the Max Bialystock Organic Blend is, um, organic..."

At this point he caved under the intense psychological pressure and grabbed one of the bags that they put the beans in and searched its back and sides for clues. Finding none, he retrieved a manager.

She was perky, ready and willing, but no more able. Showing less fear and pain than her counterman, she too looked up at the board and started to read it to me. My hopes that she might have more training or at least some classified managerial document actually listing the blends' composition faded and I picked one labelled "bold" and fled.

When I got home I found that about half the beans were intact, while the rest were some how pulverized - not ground, just broken like the shards at the bottom of a bag of chips.

So bottom line: no one at the Starbucks had the faintest idea what coffe goes into a blend, or how to find out. Equally disturbing: apparently, no one ever asks.

Isn't the point of Starbucks that it's all been burned so black that it doesn't matter? Aren't you sort of asking the kid at McDonald's what breed the neon-orange American cheese came from?

Great, now I have his version of "Baby It's Cold Outside" in my head again.

Mike G wrote:Isn't the point of Starbucks that it's all been burned so black that it doesn't matter? Aren't you sort of asking the kid at McDonald's what breed the neon-orange American cheese came from?

Great, now I have his version of "Baby It's Cold Outside" in my head again.

I go to Starbucks only in a pinch because, as you say, the stuff is burned (my suspicion: over-roasting covers inferior bean flavor). Still, Starbucks is billed as a premium product, unlike McDonald's, so I don't think it's asking to much to query them about their products (though, based on mbarolo's experience, it clearly is).

My daughter, just back from People's Republic, tells me that Starbuck's in China charges the same $5.00/cup as here -- amazing (given working wages for the average Chinese person).

Dino on the brain is no problem for me. Joey Bishop on the brain...that's another story.

Hammond

I used to work at Starbucks years ago and yes - you are completely right about the training involved in learning the whole coffee bean process....from the point of it being grown to the point of sale. However, I would think the lack of knowledge about their product would be due to training. What even more disturbing is the "manager" who seems to offer little help.

There is actually a binder/notebook that outlines all the various coffees and would include all the specific information you were interested in...and more. This notebook was available back when I was a barista and was always updated when a new coffee came into the store. Perhaps the training and training materials have changed since my barista days.

Great point about how specific questions about the coffee rarely come up. In my day, I can attest to some folks that did ask me about the various blends, differences, tastes/overtones, etc. If I didn't know, I had the notebook as a reference. I applaud you for asking such questions because I'm a firm believer that an educated consumer is a smart consumer.

As for me, I like going to Starbucks now and then to check out their "new" drinks and recreate them at home myself. Much cheaper and oh so good.

I have tried many different varieties of their beans and I have come to two conclusions:

1. I just don't get it.
2. Every "straight coffee" that they brew, no matter what the variety, has a taste component reminiscent of beef bouillon.

I used to be a big fan of Dunkin Donut's coffee, however, IMO they are now using a different blend of beans which results in a weak swill that tastes very Maxwell House-ish.

At home I grind Stewart's ( yes Stewart's ) beans and throw them into my Bunn VP-17 brewer-----This combo makes a great cup of coffee.

David Hammond wrote:My daughter, just back from People's Republic, tells me that Starbuck's in China charges the same $5.00/cup as here -- amazing (given working wages for the average Chinese person).

Well, to be fair, it's $5 a cup for some frou-frou espresso and milk drink loaded with syrups and other garbage. Their normal coffee is under $2, from what I last remember.

Personally, while I do patronize Starbucks because it's a convenient place to meet clients, I'm not a fan of any of their coffee drinks and opt for tea. ($1.20 a cup). I don't notice their prices being that much more than at independent coffee shops.

David Hammond wrote:My daughter, just back from People's Republic, tells me that Starbuck's in China charges the same $5.00/cup as here -- amazing (given working wages for the average Chinese person).

On the other hand, they also charge the same prices as here for coffee in Japan, where office ladies and salarymen were used to paying far more (the pricing system in Japan seems, until the advent of Starbucks et al., to have included rent on your chair as well as the cost of your beverage; five years ago, I paid the equivalent of US $13 for a soft drink in an indigenous Tokyo coffeeshop) -- and, amazingly, Japanese Starbucks shops are nonsmoking.

I credit Starbucks and their ubiquity for generally raising the quality of coffee everywhere across the U.S. I almost never get truly terrible java anywhere nowadays, compared to, say 10-15 years ago. I'd forgotten how bad it could get until I went to a Tim Horton's in Toronto last year and received a cupful of thin, weak liquid that, to steal a phrase, tasted almost, but not quite, entirely unlike coffee.

Starbucks also deserves kudos for their treatment of employees. Among other things, they provide health insurance for part-time workers.

That said, I almost never buy coffee there, because I dislike the burnt-bean flavor. And to tell you the truth, I wonder how much coffee as coffee they sell. Most of the people I see there are buying mocha-caramel-cinnamon-chip frappuccinos or other things all covered in whipped cream and goo, so I don't guess they can even taste the coffee. (Personally, I'm a fan of the Chantico, which is the most grown-up hot chocolate drink I've ever tasted.)

Mrbarolo, if you really are interested in what goes into the coffee blends (vs. testing employee training), there's some basic info on the Starbucks Web site.

LAZ wrote:(Personally, I'm a fan of the Chantico, which is the most grown-up hot chocolate drink I've ever tasted.)

The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

It's a good reason to buy from Starbucks on the way OUT of O'Hare -- a miserable flight needs commiseration.

On the Dunkin front, my father had been semi-official architect for franchisees about fifteen years ago, and his contract stipulated so many pounds of unground beans per job -- which, IIRC, weren't commercially available then.

LAZ - thanks for the web link. I don't actually care what goes into their blends because I don't shop there. It was just fate that put a $5 gift card in my hand on that particular day. However, I may go to the eebsite just to get some closure on this traumatic experience.

To be clear, I did not set out to "test employee training" - I just asked a very basic question. That it became a test of employee training speaks to Starbucks operation, not my motivation. I'm really not a snarky, chip-on-the-shoulder customer, just an exasperated middle-aged consumer.

After a week in Myanmar (Burma), I was seriously jonesing for Starbucks. There were coffeeshops in Yangon where you could get a cappuccino and whatnot, but you had to sit down and have it in a cup (and saucer). No to go containers...

In fact the first thing I did when I got to Japan was to buy a coffee from the vending machines to tide me over until I could get to a conveinence store for a "real" Starbucks...

JoelF wrote:The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

Actually, I believe you can order chanticos in multiple shots - double, triple, quadruple, etc. And having told you this, I also must tell you that each shot contains 390 calories, 190 of those from 21 grams of fat (10g saturated).

s4shon wrote:

JoelF wrote:The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

Actually, I believe you can order chanticos in multiple shots - double, triple, quadruple, etc. And having told you this, I also must tell you that each shot contains 390 calories, 190 of those from 21 grams of fat (10g saturated).

At the risk of getting off topic, I was in Godiva recent (a store I typically don't like), and they have apparently introduced a hot chocolate called something like Chocolixer. I had a sample of the hot version, which I liked a lot more than the Chantico, but then noticed that they're making an ice blended version (sort of like the frozen hot chocolate at Serendipity in NY) in a milk chocolate, dark chocolate or white chocolate version. I had the milk chocolate version without whipped cream (but with caramel). It included grated chocolate in addition to powdered cocoa and was absolutely delicious. I'm not a frappucino fan (I was very disappointed when Seattles Best was bought out in Chicago because I liked their hot coffee and their ice blended coffee over Starbucks any day), but I could drink this Godiva ice blended cocoa quite regularly if given the choice.

JoelF wrote:

LAZ wrote:(Personally, I'm a fan of the Chantico, which is the most grown-up hot chocolate drink I've ever tasted.)

The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

I was at Starbuck's at Plaza de Lago on Saturday. Not a coffee drinker, I studied the drink menu carefully trying to remember the exotic name of the hot chocolate you both raved about. I only saw 'hot chocolate' in three different sizes.

When the server took my order I inquired if they had another type of hot chocolate drink. She instantly blurted out Chantico, then advised Starbuck's is discontinuing it. While their store has already run out of their stock of Chantico, she advised there are still stores out there which have it. Once they run out, they will have no more.

If you bump into a Chantico, then do let me know. I'd like to try one before they disapeer.

Regards,

JoelF wrote:The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

I've always felt that you can replicate a Chantico at home by taking a Hershey's bar and nuking it. It tastes like melted milk chocolate to me, nothing more, nothing less. Although, I'm sure there's many people to whom liquid chocolate sounds absolutely ambrosial, but for me, it's a bit rich for my blood.

Binko wrote:

JoelF wrote:The Chantico is a wonderful high-priced chocolate drink, that while still not dark enough, would probably fail to be liquid if any more cocoa solids were involved. My wife is under the crazy impression that it's too rich for one person to drink alone, meanwhile I'm disappointed that it only comes in one size -- a small cup they use for espresso.

I've always felt that you can replicate a Chantico at home by taking a Hershey's bar and nuking it. It tastes like melted milk chocolate to me, nothing more, nothing less. Although, I'm sure there's many people to whom liquid chocolate sounds absolutely ambrosial, but for me, it's a bit rich for my blood.

Funny you should say that, I, too, love Starbucks Chantico and am sad they will be discontinuing it.

But, I was able to get pretty damn close to making my own Chantico. I took Schokinag's Triple Chocolate Drinking Chocolate, followed the directions...adding a bit less milk to keep it thicker. Then, I added some Scharfenberger Drinking Chocolate, about 1 tablespoon. And stirred it up and nuked it a bit more in the microwave. What I got was a pretty good facsimile of Starbuck's Chantico, both in taste and thickness.

So the Chantico's gone, but now there's a new hot chocolate lineup at Starbucks: Spicy, Deep Dark, and Espresso Hazelnut.

I just had a sample of the hazelnut and it was good. I wouldn't normally choose a hazelnut drink, so the flavor wasn't really my thing, but I liked the texture. It wasn't as super-rich as Chantico, but it was nice and foamy and definitely more a hot chocolate than a hot cocoa.

Betsy wrote:So the Chantico's gone, but now there's a new hot chocolate lineup at Starbucks: Spicy, Deep Dark, and Espresso Hazelnut.

I just had a sample of the hazelnut and it was good. I wouldn't normally choose a hazelnut drink, so the flavor wasn't really my thing, but I liked the texture. It wasn't as super-rich as Chantico, but it was nice and foamy and definitely more a hot chocolate than a hot cocoa.

Oooh, definitely something to try. I'm always up for Hot Chocolate. I think I'd try the Spicy, then the Deep Dark one. :9 Heck, all of them!

Thanks for the heads up!

Funny - 1000 years ago I used to work at Starbucks and was a trainer at one time. We spent one class on the origins of the coffees, and why each country had a different flavor profile (dry vs. wet processing, etc.)

I wonder why chains that don't roast their coffee beyond recognition haven't taken over in Chicago. Even the local brands over-roast. It seems like the local palate prefers coffee that's mahogany-colored and not charcoal-colored. The best coffee I remember having in the US I purchased at the DeKalb Market near Atlanta - where you could get it warm from the roaster. I wish we could get it here.

PS. The health benefits, when I was working, came at a price - anyone could be sent home if business was slow. This meant that 20-hour employees could lose the insurance, and those of us who were keeping full-time hours had a hard time making rent. It's possible that the computerized scheduling system they use now keeps this from happening.

I had a taste of the spicy thrust on me yesterday. It was pretty good, rich but not sickeningly thick like the Chantico (by my wife's report) was, just a little kick. Not the sort of thing I ever order, but pretty good, really.

Mhays wrote:I wonder why chains that don't roast their coffee beyond recognition haven't taken over in Chicago.

When I was fueling up yesterday at a BP/Amoco/Standard Oil station, I noticed that they've just introduced a "light roast" coffee. It was a bit too mild for my tastes, but it's nice to see there's finally a backlash from the Starbucks-coffee-made-from-burnt-beans style.

nr706 wrote:

Mhays wrote:I wonder why chains that don't roast their coffee beyond recognition haven't taken over in Chicago.

When I was fueling up yesterday at a BP/Amoco/Standard Oil station, I noticed that they've just introduced a "light roast" coffee. It was a bit too mild for my tastes, but it's nice to see there's finally a backlash from the Starbucks-coffee-made-from-burnt-beans style.

There are a lot of Dunkin Donuts coffee fans, and that seems like a lighter roast to me.

leek wrote:There are a lot of Dunkin Donuts coffee fans, and that seems like a lighter roast to me.

Lee,

Count me in the I like Dunkin Donuts coffee. Not that I'd pick DD over a cup of Intelligentsia, but of the 'everywhere' places they are my preference.

Speaking of lighter roast, I had a coffee at the recently opened Cafe Descartes, light roast, very flavorful. The friendly, well informed counter person Rebecca said they roast at their main shop on Lunt. The small sample of pumpkin muffin I tasted was good and they carry Angelo Gelato, which is my current favorite gelato. (The banana chip was the gelato in the delectable profiteroles at Peter D's Thirsty Thursday at Uno di Martino

Cafe Descartes is right at the start of where Lincoln goes one way at Lawrence, about 3/4 of a block from Cafe Selmarie and, in my opinion, a better choice for coffee in that neighborhood.

Enjoy,
Gary

Cafe Descartes
4771 N Lincoln Ave
Chicago, IL

Angelo Gelato Italiano
630-227-1777
570 County Line Rd
Bensenville, IL 60106

Cafe Selmarie
4729 N Lincoln Ave
Chicago, IL 60625
(773) 989-5595

Enjoy,
Gary

Careful, though, if you're buying Dunkin' Donuts coffee to take home. A couple of months ago, I read a Cook's Illustrated review of brand name whole bean coffees and Dunkin' Donuts brand contained an astounding number of quakers in a 1-lb. bag - something like 40. Wonder how many of those make it into their store-ground coffees?*

*Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Dunkin' Donuts coffee.

On the subject of the new hot cocoas, I hadn't had any luck getting nutritional information at the stores, but the Starbucks customer relations people just called me back. (I only got the facts for the spicy variety since I didn't want to keep the poor guy on the phone all afternoon.)

370 cal, 19 g fat, 5 g fiber

Not quite as bad as the Chantico (and the serving size is 2 oz. larger), but still roughly equal to a chocolate croissant. On the other hand, sometimes I'd rather have a hot drink than a chocolate croissant.

aschie30 wrote:Dunkin' Donuts brand contained an astounding number of quakers in a 1-lb. bag - something like 40.

Quakers?

Quakers are basically defective (underdeveloped) beans. They don't roast properly and stay light colored, and taste baaaad.

The lower the number of quakers, the better.

Cook's Illustrated goes into a bit more detail here, but you have to have a subscription to their site.

Here's a brief excerpt for discussion:

Luckily, some of the best discoveries happen by accident. The lab I hired to measure roast darkness had included several other tests for the same fee. Most of the data seemed better suited for a coffee dissertation than a magazine article-"package integrity" scores, moisture levels, and so forth. When I reached the last line, however, I noticed an odd-sounding measurement: "6 quakers," read one report; "1 quaker," read another. I had no idea what a quaker was, but given that my three problem coffees--Chock Full o' Nuts (7), Folgers (8), and Dunkin' Donuts (9)--had the most, I was determined to find out. Turns out, a quaker is coffee-industry jargon for an underdeveloped coffee bean that fails to get sorted out before the roasting stage. Less dense than a regular, mature bean, quakers can wreak havoc on the coffee's flavor profile, imparting a spoiled taste to the brew. So desirable is quaker-free coffee that beans are graded based on quaker count, and buyers are willing to pay a premium for beans that come up clean in spot tests.

mr barolo wrote:Quakers?

Have you ever brewed a pot of freshly-ground coffee and, for some reason, it just tastes awful? You probably inadvertently ground up a quaker. One of those suckers can ruin a whole pot, I find.

a few months ago, i was waiting at a stoplight and noticed the car next to me had a cup of starbucks on the roof, over the driver's door. as someone who has left things on the roof ( a huge stack of library books once left there, ensured i never make that mistake again), i leaned over and yelled out the window to let him know he'd left his coffee on the roof. he immediately hopped out of the car and freaked me out by running around to my driver's door. i thought i was going to be harangued, or worse, but he was genial and handed me a starbucks $5 giftcard. he said it was a fake cup attached to his roof as advertising. now i have a giftcard i'll never use as i cant stand coffee and last i checked starbucks makes only fruity fake teas , which i also wont drink. oh well....... justjoan

justjoan wrote:a few months ago, i was waiting at a stoplight and noticed the car next to me had a cup of starbucks on the roof, over the driver's door. as someone who has left things on the roof ( a huge stack of library books once left there, ensured i never make that mistake again), i leaned over and yelled out the window to let him know he'd left his coffee on the roof. he immediately hopped out of the car and freaked me out by running around to my driver's door. i thought i was going to be harangued, or worse, but he was genial and handed me a starbucks $5 giftcard. he said it was a fake cup attached to his roof as advertising. now i have a giftcard i'll never use as i cant stand coffee and last i checked starbucks makes only fruity fake teas , which i also wont drink. oh well....... justjoan

That's an interesting way to advertise. It definitely gets peoples' attention.

justjoan wrote:now i have a giftcard i'll never use as i cant stand coffee and last i checked starbucks makes only fruity fake teas , which i also wont drink. oh well....... justjoan

Some of their baked goods and candies are not too bad.