Fine(r) Dining

Greetings:

I'm a first time LTH poster (but longtime reader) with a simple, if (perhaps) annoying question. I'm looking to take my boyfriend out for a wonderful birthday dinner and know, unfortunately, little about the more uppity restaurants in Chicago (I.E: the 4 star, excellent ones - Trotter's, Tru, etc)

So I wonder, which of these (in your opinion) do you think would offer the most ravishing, perfect, wonderful culinary (and atmospheric and servicial (word) experience possible for my wonderful mate? Price is not that big a deal, but I probably would wish to steer somewhat under the Trotter's tag.

Gracias--

I don't think there's a significant price difference between the 4-star places, or at least, you have the control at any of those places to jack it up or cool it down by choice of tasting menus, wine pairings or bottles, etc. But any of them is going to be upwards of $300 for the two of you, and could approach $500. So be aware of that going into it, and if you're nervous about open-checkbook surgery like this, you may want to go down a notch to the ranks of Blackbird, North Pond, Schwa, [insert your favorite three-star here].

As for picking one for you... impossible. And thankfully so, since Chicago is blessed with enough terrific places that no one of them dominates the scene and is the obvious choice.

I swear there was a comprehensive thread where we linked to all the past reviews, but I guess I'll make this one (non-exhaustive of course, you should search for more on any you're getting serious about), and you can read up on the various choices and see which one has an approach and vibe that suits the two of you. Maybe next time I'll remember to link to THIS one.

Alinea, and another.

Avenues, and another.

Charlie Trotter.

Everest.

Moto.

Spiaggia.

There's never been a blow-by-blow Tru thread that I can remember but this or this probably has the best comments.

Are four-stars worth it?

Am I forgetting anything at the very top top of the list here? If so, feel free to add....

Putting aside the restaurants where food will run you over $100 per person (e.g. Charlie Trotters, among others), some suggestions are:

North Pond Cafe
Blackbird
Sweets and Savories ($60 pp tasting menu)
Schwa ($50 and $90 pp tasting menu, though reservations can be very hard to get)

The above four places are all doing "New American"/"Contempory cuisine". You will probably find many discussions of all of these if you search the board. Check out the on-line menus also to get an idea about what each is serving.

Edited to add: Ok now I see that I've been beated to the punch on the above four place...

I agree that Trotter's will not be significantly more or less expensive than any of the top-tiered (so to speak) restaurants. So if you want to avoid the Trotter's price tag, I too would suggest going to more of a 3 star restaurant.

My two favorite in that category would probably be Blackbird (best for food) and North Pond (best for atmosphere), giving Blackbird the slight edge because I've never had worse than an amazing meal there. No, you're not going to receive the same level of service and attention and style that you would likely find at Tru, Everest, Alinea or the like, but you'll have a great meal.

If you decide to choose among the top tier however, I would say that which restaurant you choose depends on the type of food you would like. Tru and Everest are going to be a bit more traditional French (although contemporary) and probably appeal to more diners than Alinea, Moto and Avenues -- the latter three offer amazingly creative combinations of foods and flavors that some more conservative diners view as too scientific/creative. Trotter's is much closer in style to Everest/Tru, in my opinion.

One of my favorite 3-star places is Naha, which is always overlooked in these types of discussions. The food there is always outstanding, and it's usually not too tough to get a reservation. I would describe the food as contemporary-American, with Mediterranean influences. Spring is also fantastic. At the 3-star level, I would probably rank the choice mentioned:

1. Blackbird
2. Naha
3. Spring

Sweets and Savories is kind of hard to categorize. Food-wise it is easily 3-stars. But in terms of the total package, it's probably half a step below the three above.

I know this is probably sacrilege, but I was very underwhelmed by North Pond. Maybe I just ordered poorly (because my girlfriend loved her meal), but I just wasn't impressed. My main issue was the fact that a lot of the food was just too much work to eat. For example, I ordered a duck dish that actually turned out to be a very hearty soup. Well, there was a lovely spring roll sitting in the middle of the bowl, but all of the ingredients along with the significant quantity of broth made the spring roll a challenge to get a hold of and cut. I would like to go back and give the place another shot. Great view though.

At the 4-star level, as Mike said, they're all about in the same price range. Alinea is easily my favorite, but Avenues would be a close second. Trotter's is quite good, just not as cutting edge as the others. I've really enjoyed Tru in the past, but word on the street is that Rick and Gale have been spending less and less time in the kitchen while working on their other ventures, and the quality of the food has suffered a bit. I've actually just come into about $300 in LEYE gift cards, so I may go back to Tru to see for myself.

Personally, I think at some of the extra-fancy schmancy places, you're paying for the prestige associated with the name. It's like the difference between buying a pair of Gap jeans, or a $200 pair of designer jeans--they're both still jeans, but one has a fancier label.

Here are my favorite choices for a celebratory meal that won't make you have to take out a second mortage.

1) Merlo on Maple. Consistently great Bolognese-style Italian in a charming setting. Stellar service. Probably about $40 per person without alcohol for 3 courses.

2) Scylla in Bucktown. Unique and forward-thinking without being gimmicky, focus on seafood but excellent all around. Great wine list, great service--but can be a bit loud at peak times.

My other suggestion would be to think of what kind of foods you normally enjoy. One of my favorite ways to celebrate is to head to Katsu, BobSan or (insert your favorite sushi place here) and order whatever you want, try new things, go a little nuts.

What kinds of food do you enjoy? Italian?Steak?Thai? These ideas will help guide our suggestions a bit more.

For pure romance, it's hard to beat Ambria. The decor is lushly Art Nouveau, with dark wood, candlelight, and flowers. The service is perfect and the sommelier is charming. And (most important part) the food is fablous -- if you go before the foie gras ban goes into effect, I think they have some of the best foie gras on the planet. It's a great restaurant (world-influenced French) with a wonderfully romantic atmosphere -- and it's a bit easier to control the price than at some of the trendier places.

I think the advice below to start with the type of food you really like is excellent. This is why I suggest looking at the menus when choosing that special occasion place. If the menu is less-than-inspiring, perhaps you are imagining someplace very different. (Sure, sometimes you want to try something new...)

I second Merlo on Maple. Although the food at Merlo on Maple and Merlo on Lincoln is identical, the Maple location is quite a bit more romantic, IMO. Although it should be said, Merlo, Scylla, and Katsu are in the same price range as many of the places above (North Pond, Blackbird, Naha. On average, a dinner may be a few dollars more at Blackbird than, say, Merlo, and that depends on whether or not you go for an entre or a pasta dish. But they are definitely in the same ball park.

Now, the differences in price between Blackbird, Merlo, etc. on the one hand, and Trotters, Alinea, etc. on the other....I think you are paying for more than the label. Perhaps some prefer Blackbird at Blackbird prices over Trotters at Trotter prices, which is a perfectly acceptable lifestyle choice. But the difference between the two is more than "the label".

bananasandwiches wrote:Personally, I think at some of the extra-fancy schmancy places, you're paying for the prestige associated with the name. It's like the difference between buying a pair of Gap jeans, or a $200 pair of designer jeans--they're both still jeans, but one has a fancier label.

Here are my favorite choices for a celebratory meal that won't make you have to take out a second mortage.

1) Merlo on Maple. Consistently great Bolognese-style Italian in a charming setting. Stellar service. Probably about $40 per person without alcohol for 3 courses.

2) Scylla in Bucktown. Unique and forward-thinking without being gimmicky, focus on seafood but excellent all around. Great wine list, great service--but can be a bit loud at peak times.

My other suggestion would be to think of what kind of foods you normally enjoy. One of my favorite ways to celebrate is to head to Katsu, BobSan or (insert your favorite sushi place here) and order whatever you want, try new things, go a little nuts.

What kinds of food do you enjoy? Italian?Steak?Thai? These ideas will help guide our suggestions a bit more.

Darren72 wrote:Now, the differences in price between Blackbird, Merlo, etc. on the one hand, and Trotters, Alinea, etc. on the other....I think you are paying for more than the label. Perhaps some prefer Blackbird at Blackbird prices over Trotters at Trotter prices, which is a perfectly acceptable lifestyle choice. But the difference between the two is more than "the label".

bananasandwiches wrote:Personally, I think at some of the extra-fancy schmancy places, you're paying for the prestige associated with the name. It's like the difference between buying a pair of Gap jeans, or a $200 pair of designer jeans--they're both still jeans, but one has a fancier label.

I agree that the price difference between the likes of Blackbird/Naha/North Pond versus the likes of Alinea/Avenues/Tru/Trotter's is not simply the result of the name of the restaurant. I believe the latter (i.e., the pricier spots) tend to pay more careful attention to all of the elements of special occasion dining -- i.e., outstanding and attentive service, more celebratory atmosphere, nicer linens and serving pieces, and often, nicer plating of dishes. And as Darren noted, that does not necessarily make for a better dining experience for everyone since it's really a matter of personal preference. But anyone who has dined at Alinea knows that the chairs themselves are an integral part of the dining experience -- where else could you sit comfortably for 4 to 5 hours. And without question, that comfort has to be included in the price tag -- somewhere . . . along with the various contraptions used to suspend pb&j sandwiches and bacon.

if you're trying to compare Tru to Blackbird, something's not clicking... Tru is much much better for a number of reasons, an experience upon which you'll benchmark every meal thereafter against. if you want to try and make it extra special, try getting in the upstairs private dining room.

Blackbird and the others mentioned are nice, but not really too too unique or special. tru/alinea/trotters/etc--you just won't forget it.

Mike G wrote:There's never been a blow-by-blow Tru thread that I can remember

I've been sitting on one since February. I'll try to get it posted soon.

Over the weekend, I had a wonderful "celebration dinner" at Blackbird. My fiancé and I actually enjoyed our meal there as much as our meal at Tru. They're obviously very different dining experiences and difficult to compare, but I loved the vibe at Blackbird and the food was without fault Saturday night. The pork belly was one of the best things I've ever eaten. Why have I never had pork belly before? In fact, why is all pork not pork belly?? It was melty and salty and rich and delicious. Best pork product ever. The pacing of the meal was perfect - we were there for nearly 2 hours and never felt rushed in the least. The couples on either side of us were also celebrating special occasions too. Anyway, my vote is for Blackbird, although I really don't think you can go wrong at any of the other suggestions.

ek wrote:The pork belly was one of the best things I've ever eaten. Why have I never had pork belly before? In fact, why is all pork not pork belly?? It was melty and salty and rich and delicious. Best pork product ever.

I just had that dish a couple of weeks ago and I couldn't agree more. Just a perfect balance of meat and fat. Outstanding in every way.

stevez wrote:

Mike G wrote:There's never been a blow-by-blow Tru thread that I can remember

I've been sitting on one since February. I'll try to get it posted soon.

wow... that is strange! ...Tru truly is the best culinary experience I've had, food-wise, service-wise, the whole package... it could have been a combination of exterior factors that contributed to this too... but who knows. the problem now is every high end restaurant i go to somehow gets compared to Tru and few come close. a blow by blow of their tasting seems like it would be easy to do, since they give you a custom printed menu of everything you had when you leave.

I know there are quite a few comments about Tru around on this forum...


...as far as blackbird... yes the pork belly is fantastic. i think the sound of it scares people off, but if it had a different name everyone would order it and think its great... also, the fact that we're all even talking about their pork belly dish seems to lead-on to the fact that their menu is somewhat stagnant (which can be a good or bad thing for some). Though i never had the problem, i've heard a lot of people describe Blackbird as a loud/crowded/rushed experience. I think I happened to pick the right nights the one or two times I've been. for me it was good but not even in the top of the list as far as highly memorable culinary experiences.

Thank you all for the (excellent) replies: I can see now how little I knew about chicago (fine dining)

To refine, a bit, I think I am looking for a 3 star place that will allow a pretty intimate and romantic (whatever that means -- I guess just quiet and attractive) setting with exceptional food (of course, doesn't everyone want that !!) -- but these are good places to work through. Thanks again!

A quick addendum/question:

Which of these 3star(ish) restaurants has the most wonderful decor/service/extra-food aspects? A strange question, my apologies.

Boopers wrote:A quick addendum/question:

Which of these 3star(ish) restaurants has the most wonderful decor/service/extra-food aspects? A strange question, my apologies.

North Pond.

3-star, great food, romantic, nice decor, great service: I'd go with jesteinf's recommendation of Spring. It's a large space, but surprisingly intimate.

Spring
2039 West North Ave
(773) 395-7100
http://springrestaurant.net/

Best,
Michael

Off the top of my head....here are some thoughts on non-food aspects of the places we've discussed.

North Pond Cafe has great views of the city and a really unique setting (it's located in Lincoln Park...the park itself, not simply the neighborhood that bears the same name). Their website is http://www.northpondrestaurant.com/index.cfm, and the website doesn't really give you a sense of the views.

Merlo on Maple (see above) is located in a very nice old brownstone. Tables are scattered in rooms of the old house, rather than many tables in one large room. That made for a more intimate dining experience.

Blackbird is intimate in the sense that you will sitting at practically the same table as your neighbor. More seriously, if want to go to Blackbird, when you make your reservation ask to be seated at a table near the western wall of the restaurant, or at least not along the eastern wall. The eastern wall has a row of tables that are very, very close to one another. Blackbird can be quite loud and crowded, but I think these effects are minimized if you are not on the eastern wall of the restaurant.

I haven't been to MK in a very long time. I'd be interested to know if anyone's been there recently, and what they thought. I thought of it just now because they have a small mezzanine that has some intimate, rounded booths.

Finally, I seem to remember Spring having a very nice, unique atmosphere. But it's been a while since I've been there.

Now that I think about it, so many of the three star places we throw around, those above plus many others, have the standard large room, tables arranged in rows that are reasonably close together, muted colors that are relaxing, but not too relaxing (with the exception of Mexican restaurants, which go for the splashy colors)...there's a great deal of variety in food, but perhaps there isn't much variety in other aspects of the experience. Anyways....Boopers, I hope you have a great time.

Boopers wrote:A quick addendum/question:

Which of these 3star(ish) restaurants has the most wonderful decor/service/extra-food aspects? A strange question, my apologies.

You've gotten some good recommendations. I'd like to also throw One Sixtyblue into the mix. It's gotten some good reviews lately.

eatchicago wrote:3-star, great food, romantic, nice decor, great service: I'd go with jesteinf's recommendation of Spring. It's a large space, but surprisingly intimate.

Spring
2039 West North Ave
(773) 395-7100
http://springrestaurant.net/

Best,
Michael

I had dinner at Spring about 2 months ago and, overall, really enjoyed it. The food was fantastic (octopus appetizer, scallops and pork belly main course, ice cream sampler for dessert), the service was very good, it has an interesting setting (an old Russian bathhouse), and I like the way the tables are placed so that you are not right on top of your neighbors. My only complaint was with the throbbing techno music played throughout the evening. It seems completely out of character with the image of Zen-like serenity that Spring presents on their web site. Bizarre.

The music issue certainly wouldn't keep me from returning to Spring, but I thought I'd mention it since you are weighing the atmosphere, etc of all the different options.

Have fun, and please report back on wherever you end up!

Amata

Boopers wrote:A quick addendum/question:

Which of these 3star(ish) restaurants has the most wonderful decor/service/extra-food aspects? A strange question, my apologies.

I've seen complaints about the closeness of tables and the noise at Blackbird. While I'm usually sensitive to those issues, I have not found them to be problems. I also think the noise is overrated there compared to many other places in town. But perhaps it is because the food is so amazing -- yes, Paul Kahan does wonders with pork and pork belly but everything else including desserts are outstanding also. I think Blackbird is at the top of the 3* list and offers as good if not better food and service than many 4* choices.

If you'd like a restaurant that offers primarily seafood, I like Spring quite a bit, but I prefer Scylla. I just think it's more quaint and I think the execution is a bit more consistent. Scylla tends to offer more Mediterranean flavors while Spring tends to lean Asian.

Then there's North Pond. I think the food is excellent, although I much prefer the food at Blackbird. But the location cannot be beat. North Pond is located in the heart of Lincoln Park, secluded from the noise and sitting at the edge of a lagoon (or pond as it may be). It's one of the most beautiful spots in the city.

I agree with BR about Blackbird. I didn't find the noise level to be a problem at all and even though we were pretty close to our neighbors (our table was on the eastern wall), I found the atmosphere pretty romantic. I like bustling spots and find them to be as intimate as relatively quieter, more sedate places, like North Pond. Although maybe I shouldn't talk considering that I have been known to pick places like Katsu and Lao Sze Chuan for other celebrations

ek wrote:I didn't find the noise level to be a problem at all and even though we were pretty close to our neighbors

if you're there at 7, its probably relatively quiet... i used to live across the street from blackbird, and i'd walk by quite often... late at night i'd look at blackbird (along with the somewhat newer 2 adjoining places) and they seem more like an ultra-hipster bar than a good place to eat... people everywhere, going from one place to the other, being loud drunks, etc. Even outside in the summer it can get very loud right there.