ld111134 wrote:Shouldn’t those guys master pie-making at the original location before expanding, and then make an announcement once the product and new location are locked and loaded? This will not end well.

These are money guys. This approach is probably not in their DNA. But I think they'll be fine. The brand probably carries enough goodwill to keep the enterprise going, even among the undiscerning, for quite some time.

=R=

Pizza is one of the simplest foods to make, but one of the hardest to master. Burt, bless his soul, spent decades perfecting his art. By the time most here had experienced his creations, he was in the masterworks phase of his career. I am sure his earliest attempts paled by comparison. Then again, he was sort of a pizza prodigy. Like most artists, Burt created a style and product that pleased himself. I suspect he could have cared less what his critics thought. He wasn't catering to the market, but to his own creative instincts.

What Burt produced was something special (and he knew it). A perfect balance of fresh ingredients atop a truly remarkable crust. Remember how it was crunchy at the bottom but got fluffier towards the top, until it was almost souffle like where it transitioned into the cheese? It was hard to tell where the crust ended and the rest of the pizza began. You cannot teach that. Then, of course, there was the carmelized cheese around the edge (an inovation that even Little Ceasar's is copying in their "pan" pizza).

A person could use the exact same paints, canvas and brushes in the exact same measurements as Leonardo Davinci. They could even imitate his technique, but they could never paint the Mona Lisa. The best they could hope for is a passable forgery.

I remember the first time I went to Pequod's. I was absolutely floored by the pizza. I had never had anything like it. When I returned to 'Quod's, some months later, I thought the place had gone downhill; it was just not the same. I later found out that the owner (Burt) had sold the place. Still, the pizza retained enough of Burt's style that the people I was with were impressed; for me it was OK, but not as good as I remembered. It just wasn't a Burt Katz pizza.

Eventually Pequod's modified the style, creating a pizza that they liked. Now, they actually turn out a pretty decent pie, but very different from Burt's original. They have opted for "over the top" pizzas with tons of everything, as opposed to Burt's more zen approach. That gonzo style suits Pequod's current owners and their customers well.

Then there is post BK Gulliver's. Though I never ate there when Burt was a partner, I can't imagine what I did eat there bore any resemblance to Burt's original vision. Besides, what was with the 6 page menu? That alone, was totally un-Katz like.

I guess what I am trying to say is that a person could use the exact same ingredients, recipes and ovens in the exact same measurements as Burt Katz. They could even imitate his technique, but they could never bake a Burt Katz pizza. The best they could hope for is a passable forgery.

I wish the new owners well and hope they are successful, but Burt's pizza will never be the same. Burt loved what he did, and it was evident in the quality of his pies. For a half century, he had a singular focus: to make the most delicious pizza he could. That experience and devotion cannot be bought or sold, but it is what made Burt's Place special. By focusing on profit, no matter how hard they work at duplicating Burt's signature style, the new owners will never achieve the same quality and that dusty but authentic ambience. To even think that they could, is sort of insulting to Burt's legacy. Anyhow, we all know that it was Sharon that really kept the place running.

About the reservation issue; what about adopting some newer tech (like maybe a smartphone app)? I know that Mr. 1970 dial phone would be appalled, but if there were an easier way to make a reservation, more folks would do it. Plus, there will be fewer phone calls to deal with. It would also free up some space for walk-ins, and if you make them wait a little while to be seated, they will quickly start using the system.

This is truly an "old-school" LTH post. Thank you, d4v3.

d4v3 wrote:About the reservation issue; what about adopting some newer tech (like maybe a smartphone app)? I know that Mr. 1970 dial phone would be appalled, but if there were an easier way to make a reservation, more folks would do it. Plus, there will be fewer phone calls to deal with. It would also free up some space for walk-ins, and if you make them wait a little while to be seated, they will quickly start using the system.

I don't think ordering ahead and getting a reservation is a problem anymore with the different pizza and the renovated patio area.

I don't think there are the crowds anymore (pretty quiet when we visited in December).

d4v3 wrote:Pizza is one of the simplest foods to make...

Have you been to the new Burt's? I read your post but I didn't see any evidence that you'd been back to try it.

Chitown B wrote:

d4v3 wrote:Pizza is one of the simplest foods to make...

Have you been to the new Burt's? I read your post but I didn't see any evidence that you'd been back to try it.

100% irrelevant

Clarence Beeks wrote:

Chitown B wrote:

d4v3 wrote:Pizza is one of the simplest foods to make...

Have you been to the new Burt's? I read your post but I didn't see any evidence that you'd been back to try it.

100% irrelevant

It's not. The only thing the matters is the pizza, and if it's good or not. That second to last paragraph is pretty damning, especially if it's all conjecture.

its completely ridiculous to believe the pizza will ever be the same with Burt gone. it may even be better, not likely, but it won't be the same. no visit required to know that.

Clarence Beeks wrote:its completely ridiculous to believe the pizza will ever be the same with Burt gone. it may even be better, not likely, but it won't be the same. no visit required to know that.

You seem really defensive. I'm just asking a question. This quote is very presumptuous without any testing "the new owners will never achieve the same quality".

d4v3 wrote:Then there is post BK Gulliver's. Though I never ate there when Burt was a partner, I can't imagine what I did eat there bore any resemblance to Burt's original vision. Besides, what was with the 6 page menu? That alone, was totally un-Katz like.

I ate at Gullivers regularly during the time Burt was there 1965-71. The deep dish was outstanding and was my favorite at the time. However,I have no memory whatsoever of any type of carmelized crust.

Post LTH North Lunch Group dinner wrap-up:
High Points
* More space. The patio has a lot of breathing room
* That sausage is pretty awesome
* The burnt-edge cheese still thrills

Low Points
* The patio is a little chilly, and very loud
* Service was a little spotty. Not terrible, but not attentive (hey it's a pizza place, not Alinea, but a few more napkins would have been nice)
* Yeah, the crust is breadier and less cheesy than what I'd expected from the Burt regime

The breadiness doesn't put it in the realm of, "why would I ever come back?" (and I will come back) but it's not the knife-edge balance that made Burt's pizza a delicious mystery.

How would you compare it to Burt's?

JoelF wrote:Post LTH North Lunch Group dinner wrap-up:
High Points
* More space. The patio has a lot of breathing room
* That sausage is pretty awesome
* The burnt-edge cheese still thrills

Low Points
* The patio is a little chilly, and very loud
* Service was a little spotty. Not terrible, but not attentive (hey it's a pizza place, not Alinea, but a few more napkins would have been nice)
* Yeah, the crust is breadier and less cheesy than what I'd expected from the Burt regime

The breadiness doesn't put it in the realm of, "why would I ever come back?" (and I will come back) but it's not the knife-edge balance that made Burt's pizza a delicious mystery.

Nice time and very nice people I agree with all your points except the chilly, but I run hot. Definitely needed napkins - the one per person is not enough. The crust needs to have more oil or something to crisp it up. It ends up being very much like foccacia and one note. Cold, it's like having sauce and a little bit of toppings on some thick bread.

But the real question is, what did you think of Game of Thrones? lol

Chitown B wrote:But the real question is, what did you think of Game of Thrones? lol

Lady Karstark and Arya were the high points, definitely, but they generally are in any scenes that feature them. I'd say more but then I'd end up with spoilers.

Regarding the heat, I was in the corner furthest from any of the ceiling heaters, and I found as I left that I had one of the few metal chairs that didn't have a pad tied onto it.

More oil, and/or a little higher cheese-to-dough ratio might be the trick (but Burt's pie never was very cheese heavy). It's been years since I had the OG version, so it's hard to be certain, but a crispier bottom of the crust might do it -- I don't remember that much difference from the burnt edge to the bottom.

Chitown B wrote:

Clarence Beeks wrote:its completely ridiculous to believe the pizza will ever be the same with Burt gone. it may even be better, not likely, but it won't be the same. no visit required to know that.

You seem really defensive. I'm just asking a question. This quote is very presumptuous without any testing "the new owners will never achieve the same quality".

You have to forgive Mr. Beeks. After all, he was put in that cage with that gorilla and shipped to Africa. How did you escape Beeks?

Clarence Beeks wrote:its completely ridiculous to believe the pizza will ever be the same with Burt gone. it may even be better, not likely, but it won't be the same. no visit required to know that.

I would have to agree that no one in the current establishment can hope to match the pies that Burt was slinging out. He was a master that they could never hope to even come close.

When somebody reports back that they are coming close I might return but until then there are some mighty fine pies closer to home.

Burt's is dead, long live Burt!

JoelF wrote:

Chitown B wrote:But the real question is, what did you think of Game of Thrones? lol

Lady Karstark and Arya were the high points, definitely, but they generally are in any scenes that feature them. I'd say more but then I'd end up with spoilers.

Regarding the heat, I was in the corner furthest from any of the ceiling heaters, and I found as I left that I had one of the few metal chairs that didn't have a pad tied onto it.

More oil, and/or a little higher cheese-to-dough ratio might be the trick (but Burt's pie never was very cheese heavy). It's been years since I had the OG version, so it's hard to be certain, but a crispier bottom of the crust might do it -- I don't remember that much difference from the burnt edge to the bottom.

Loved GoT

Yeah I think a little more cheese, and honestly more toppings. On the sausage I got, the sausage just seemed a little sparse. Ends up being just thick crust smattered with a little sauce and cheese, with sausage every so often. Maybe that's just how they always do it but I don't remember it being that way when I first was there (even after Burt). I might try Peaquod's nearby to compare.

I will say it was better reheated in an oven with a preheated pan. 375 for 10 minutes, and the bottom crust gets nice and crispy.

JoelF wrote:

Chitown B wrote:But the real question is, what did you think of Game of Thrones? lol

Lady Karstark*

* (Mormont)