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The Soda Bread Chronicles

The Soda Bread Chronicles
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  • The Soda Bread Chronicles

    Post #1 - February 4th, 2009, 1:19 am
    Post #1 - February 4th, 2009, 1:19 am Post #1 - February 4th, 2009, 1:19 am
    I resolved to make my New Year's resolutions easier to keep by making most of them pleasant. Thus, I am willing to try to overcome my fear of going to confession, if over the same time period I manage to teach myself some things about making bread, making pizza, speaking Gaelic, and tracing my family's geneology.

    Now, I know, breadmaking and pizza dough making should not be as intimidating to me as they are, but currently I feel toward them the way I felt toward cooking 15 or 20 years ago - uninformed, unskilled, and envious of people who know what they are doing.

    The lesson I take away from that is that I should be able to acquire confidence in bread and dough work if I plug away steadily and patiently.

    So we come to my efforts to learn how to make Irish soda bread. I've found several recipes, with several slight differences. I foresee a trial-and-error learning process.

    Day One:

    I start with the Cook's Illustrated recipe, which calls for 3 cups of all-purpose flour and 1 cup of cake flour. I have those. It also calls for 1 and 1/2 tsp baking soda (I have that) and 1 1/2 tsp cream of tartar. Yikes, I don't have that. Looking at some other recipes for soda bread, I see baking powder called for, and replace that 1 1/2 tsp cream of tartar with 1 1/2 tsp baking powder.

    The other ingredients, I think it's safe to say, were not critical to the outcome.

    What resulted was a very soft, crumbly, okay -- cakey -- bread, less breadlike than cakelike. Tasty, yes, but the only parts that held together were those that were stuck to the butter.

    I think it's safe to say, my next attempt should not involve cake flour. In hindsight, I do not imagine the average Irishwoman of the last few centuries keeping cake flour on hand.

    If someone can enlighten me on what I did wrong by using baking soda + baking powder in place of baking soda + cream of tartar, I'd be grateful. I don't have cream of tartar on hand, but I'm willing to go get it if it's essential to the process. I always wondered what my mom kept cream of tartar around for.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #2 - February 4th, 2009, 6:51 am
    Post #2 - February 4th, 2009, 6:51 am Post #2 - February 4th, 2009, 6:51 am
    Katie wrote:I I start with the Cook's Illustrated recipe, which calls for 3 cups of all-purpose flour and 1 cup of cake flour. I have those. It also calls for 1 and 1/2 tsp baking soda (I have that) and 1 1/2 tsp cream of tartar. Yikes, I don't have that. Looking at some other recipes for soda bread, I see baking powder called for, and replace that 1 1/2 tsp cream of tartar with 1 1/2 tsp baking powder.


    Baking powder is made of baking soda and cream of tartar and/or other acids.

    Whenever you see baking soda by itself, then there is an acid in the recipe to activate it: buttermilk, cocoa, vinegar and such. If you substituted sweet milk for the buttermilk and there was no other acid present or not enough acid present, then your baked product will have a raw baking soda chemical taste.

    Baking powder has baking soda and depending on the brand several kinds of acids. Some acids will release on contact with liquid, some are delayed and others respond to temperature. Baking powders are not designed the same: there are differences in reaction between Clabber Girl and Calumet. Most of what I learned about baking powder was direct from Shirley Corriher.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #3 - February 4th, 2009, 9:41 am
    Post #3 - February 4th, 2009, 9:41 am Post #3 - February 4th, 2009, 9:41 am
    There's a difference, too, between yeast-raised bread and baking powder-raised bread. The texture is very different. As you noted, it's much more cake-like when you do a baking powder bread. These are also often called quick breads.

    If you are trying to make bread more like what you'd make a sandwich out of, you probably want a yeast bread.

    Soda bread is very tasty, but being able to make a good one isn't going to get you to baguette-land ;)
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
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  • Post #4 - February 4th, 2009, 9:59 am
    Post #4 - February 4th, 2009, 9:59 am Post #4 - February 4th, 2009, 9:59 am
    a few years ago I spent 2 weeks traveling around Ireland and they serve soda bread before just about any meal. the catch is it is always whole wheat soda bread. I never, ever, saw white soda bread there. i discovered that King Arthur sells Irish style whole wheat which is stone ground soft red wheat. costs an arm and a leg, but that's what you need if you want to get as close as possible to what people actually eat in Ireland today.
    i used to milk cows
  • Post #5 - February 4th, 2009, 10:14 am
    Post #5 - February 4th, 2009, 10:14 am Post #5 - February 4th, 2009, 10:14 am
    I think it's safe to say, my next attempt should not involve cake flour. In hindsight, I do not imagine the average Irishwoman of the last few centuries keeping cake flour on hand.


    The mix of cake flour and all purpose flour is probably to either approximate the protein/gluten content of the traditional flour used for this in Ireland or (more likely the case) Cooks Illustrated thought this gave a texture that people liked. I wouldn't necessarily assume you did something wrong. Soda bread is crumbly and the recipe may have been designed to deliver that, or maybe over deliver based on your tastes.
  • Post #6 - February 4th, 2009, 10:41 am
    Post #6 - February 4th, 2009, 10:41 am Post #6 - February 4th, 2009, 10:41 am
    teatpuller wrote:i discovered that King Arthur sells Irish style whole wheat which is stone ground soft red wheat. costs an arm and a leg, but that's what you need if you want to get as close as possible to what people actually eat in Ireland today.


    The whole wheat pastry flour from Bob's Red Mill and graham flour from Hodgson Mills are good alternatives (not to mention cheaper). They both have the coarse texture of King Arthur Irish-style flour. They're also much easier to find in local groceries.
  • Post #7 - February 4th, 2009, 12:32 pm
    Post #7 - February 4th, 2009, 12:32 pm Post #7 - February 4th, 2009, 12:32 pm
    Katie wrote:So we come to my efforts to learn how to make Irish soda bread. I've found several recipes, with several slight differences. I foresee a trial-and-error learning process.

    I like to do the trial-and-error thing too, and tinker with recipes. I worked on Soda Bread a few years ago and was not having much luck. I think the recipe that I finally ended up with was this one, from an Irish friend at work. (Well, born here, but Irish.) I haven't made this for a long time so I can't totally vouch for it. However, I think I know what I'm going to be making this weekend now. Note there is no sugar or added fat at all in it. I have a nice scone recipe that is similar to this if anyone is interested.

    Irish Soda Bread from Mr. Murphy
    4 cups flour
    1/2 tsp salt
    1 tsp baking soda

    2 cups buttermilk
    Raisins or currants to taste per orig recipe--I'd probably go with a cup--I like the Zante currants


    Preheat oven to 425. Mix first set of dry ingredients.
    Add buttermilk and raisins or currants and mix until the dough is just soft and sticky. Lightly knead until bread just stays together. Stop as soon as it does--do not overknead. (Orig recipe says to knead up to five minutes. I would think you'd do much less than this--30 secs to a minute if possible.)

    Form dough into a flat, round cake about 2" high. Cut a cross in the center with a knife.

    Place dough on a floured baking sheet and bake at 425 for 30-40 mins until bread is lightly brown. Tap the top of bread and listen for a hollow sound to indicate that the bread is done.

    Cool at least 4 hours before slicing. (This is per original recipe--I wouldn't be able to wait that long. Plus, this will go stale so fast with no fat or sugar you'll want to eat the same day you make it.)
    "things like being careful with your coriander/ that's what makes the gravy grander" - Sondheim
  • Post #8 - February 4th, 2009, 1:02 pm
    Post #8 - February 4th, 2009, 1:02 pm Post #8 - February 4th, 2009, 1:02 pm
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, as much as I love Irish soda bread, I love even more the brown bread we were served in virtually every B&B, restaurant, and pub we visited on the Emerald Isle. The deep, rich, earthy flavors, infused with a hint of the peat smoke that swirled around the loaf as it baked, were more complex and even more comforting than any soda bread I have ever eaten. Sorry, don't have a recipe to post; wish I did.

    Katie, my Irish wife is well versed in tracing her genealogical roots and has been doing so for years. If you need any help in getting started, or if you're looking for more sources of information, feel free to PM me and I will put you in contact with my dear colleen.

    Buddy
    Last edited by BuddyRoadhouse on February 4th, 2009, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #9 - February 4th, 2009, 1:22 pm
    Post #9 - February 4th, 2009, 1:22 pm Post #9 - February 4th, 2009, 1:22 pm
    BuddyRoadhouse wrote:I've said it before, and I'll say it again, as much as I love Irish soda bread, I love even more the brown bread we were served in virtually every B&B, restaurant, and pub we visited on the Emerald Isle. The deep, rich, earthy flavors, infused with a hint of the peet smoke that swirled around the loaf as it baked, were more complex and even more comforting than any soda bread I have ever eaten. Sorry, don't have a recipe to post; wish I did.
    What an evocative post.

    I was picking up brown Irish bread at Happy Foods for awhile. I've never been to Ireland (someday, though, someday!) so I had nothing to compare it to, but it was pretty tasty and I thought about trying my own version. Above there were notes on where to get the flour for it--if anyone does have a recipe or ideas I'd be interested. Seems like it would be pretty close to soda bread but without any fruit or caraway, and using a different kind of flour. Too bad the peat smoke will still be missing though. 8)
    "things like being careful with your coriander/ that's what makes the gravy grander" - Sondheim
  • Post #10 - February 4th, 2009, 7:14 pm
    Post #10 - February 4th, 2009, 7:14 pm Post #10 - February 4th, 2009, 7:14 pm
    The February issue of Martha Stewart Living has a whole-wheat Irish soda bread recipe. You should be able to access the recipe on her website. If not, pm me and I will be happy to share it with you.

    Jyoti
    Jyoti
    A meal, with bread and wine, shared with friends and family is among the most essential and important of all human rituals.
    Ruhlman
  • Post #11 - February 4th, 2009, 8:46 pm
    Post #11 - February 4th, 2009, 8:46 pm Post #11 - February 4th, 2009, 8:46 pm
    Just saw this on Rose Levy Berenbaum's blog, and thought you might be interested. The link takes you to Epicurious and offers a step-by-step guide to bread baking. Berenbaum's recipes are meticulously detailed and, in my opinion, very reliable.

    http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguide ... mers/bread

    Jyoti
    Jyoti
    A meal, with bread and wine, shared with friends and family is among the most essential and important of all human rituals.
    Ruhlman
  • Post #12 - February 4th, 2009, 11:22 pm
    Post #12 - February 4th, 2009, 11:22 pm Post #12 - February 4th, 2009, 11:22 pm
    Whenever you see baking soda by itself, then there is an acid in the recipe to activate it: buttermilk, cocoa, vinegar and such. If you substituted sweet milk for the buttermilk and there was no other acid present or not enough acid present, then your baked product will have a raw baking soda chemical taste.

    I did use buttermilk; I understand that that is critical to the outcome.

    Baking powders are not designed the same: there are differences in reaction between Clabber Girl and Calumet.
    I have both in the cabinet (because my baking ambitions far exceed my skills). Do you recommend one over the other?
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #13 - February 4th, 2009, 11:26 pm
    Post #13 - February 4th, 2009, 11:26 pm Post #13 - February 4th, 2009, 11:26 pm
    leek wrote:There's a difference, too, between yeast-raised bread and baking powder-raised bread. The texture is very different. As you noted, it's much more cake-like when you do a baking powder bread. These are also often called quick breads. If you are trying to make bread more like what you'd make a sandwich out of, you probably want a yeast bread. Soda bread is very tasty, but being able to make a good one isn't going to get you to baguette-land ;)

    Oh, yeast breads, that's a whole different wing of my New Year's resolution. I aspire to several things at once: knowing how to consistently make a good Irish soda bread, a good yeast bread, and a good pizza dough. Too ambitious? Well, it's only the beginning of February. And I'm willing to accept that acquiring these skills might take more than a calendar year - I'd just like to feel at some point like I'm making some progress.

    I have made yeast bread a few times, and would rate my success rate 50% at best. So far I'm 0% on the soda bread.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #14 - February 4th, 2009, 11:27 pm
    Post #14 - February 4th, 2009, 11:27 pm Post #14 - February 4th, 2009, 11:27 pm
    teatpuller wrote:i discovered that King Arthur sells Irish style whole wheat which is stone ground soft red wheat. costs an arm and a leg, but that's what you need if you want to get as close as possible to what people actually eat in Ireland today.
    Thanks for the tip. I have some whole wheat flour to try in one of my iterations, not the King Arthur variety but I think I should use what I have before I buy more. I'll report back.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #15 - February 4th, 2009, 11:32 pm
    Post #15 - February 4th, 2009, 11:32 pm Post #15 - February 4th, 2009, 11:32 pm
    The mix of cake flour and all purpose flour is probably to either approximate the protein/gluten content of the traditional flour used for this in Ireland or (more likely the case) Cooks Illustrated thought this gave a texture that people liked. I wouldn't necessarily assume you did something wrong. Soda bread is crumbly and the recipe may have been designed to deliver that, or maybe over deliver based on your tastes.

    Yeah, it was too crumbly. See, this is about half of what has put me off baking so far in my life, how big a deal it is that you use exactly the right ingredients and exactly the right proportions. "Cooking is ad lib," they say, "but baking is chemistry." Well, I've never been a person to measure things out to the gram, which has got to be part of why my baking efforts to date have been C+ at best.

    But I do want to be able to make these things at home and make them consistently well: soda bread, yeast bread, and pizza dough. So I will plow away and cave to the pressure to be a bit more precise than is my nature.

    In the interest of science, I should try the Cooks Illustrated recipe again with the correct amounts of baking soda and cream of tartar, just to see how it turns out. But so far I am suspicious of soda bread recipes with cake flour as an ingredient.
    Last edited by Katie on February 4th, 2009, 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #16 - February 4th, 2009, 11:37 pm
    Post #16 - February 4th, 2009, 11:37 pm Post #16 - February 4th, 2009, 11:37 pm
    kanin wrote:flour from Hodgson Mills are good alternatives (not to mention cheaper). They both have the coarse texture of King Arthur Irish-style flour. They're also much easier to find in local groceries.
    Also good tips, thanks.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #17 - February 4th, 2009, 11:41 pm
    Post #17 - February 4th, 2009, 11:41 pm Post #17 - February 4th, 2009, 11:41 pm
    grits wrote:I like to do the trial-and-error thing too, and tinker with recipes. I worked on Soda Bread a few years ago and was not having much luck. I think the recipe that I finally ended up with was this one, from an Irish friend at work. (Well, born here, but Irish.) I haven't made this for a long time so I can't totally vouch for it. However, I think I know what I'm going to be making this weekend now. Note there is no sugar or added fat at all in it. I have a nice scone recipe that is similar to this if anyone is interested.

    Irish Soda Bread from Mr. Murphy
    4 cups flour
    1/2 tsp salt
    1 tsp baking soda
    2 cups buttermilk
    Raisins or currants to taste per orig recipe--I'd probably go with a cup--I like the Zante currants

    See, now that seems like the ingredient list someone in Ireland would follow, not all this complicated mix of flours and such. Thanks for this, I'll try it and report on the results. I'm also curious about your scone recipe, but perhaps I shouldn't get too far ahead of myself.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #18 - February 4th, 2009, 11:46 pm
    Post #18 - February 4th, 2009, 11:46 pm Post #18 - February 4th, 2009, 11:46 pm
    BuddyRoadhouse wrote:I've said it before, and I'll say it again, as much as I love Irish soda bread, I love even more the brown bread we were served in virtually every B&B, restaurant, and pub we visited on the Emerald Isle. The deep, rich, earthy flavors, infused with a hint of the peat smoke that swirled around the loaf as it baked, were more complex and even more comforting than any soda bread I have ever eaten. Sorry, don't have a recipe to post; wish I did.

    I would love to try making brown bread as well, but don't know where to start. I'll look around for a recipe.

    BuddyRoadhouse wrote:Katie, my Irish wife is well versed in tracing her genealogical roots and has been doing so for years. If you need any help in getting started, or if you're looking for more sources of information, feel free to PM me and I will put you in contact with my dear colleen. Buddy

    That's so nice of you! I will contact you when I get a little further along in my research. Many (30?) years ago, a brother of mine did a lot of work on our family's geneology, and I have his notebooks. This was all pre-Internet, so he learned by interviewing and writing letters to relatives, and researching birth, baptism, and death records ... geneology the old-fashioned, hard-but-glorious way. I am hoping to build on what he did with the tools available now. Not a bad New Year's resolution, eh?
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #19 - February 4th, 2009, 11:49 pm
    Post #19 - February 4th, 2009, 11:49 pm Post #19 - February 4th, 2009, 11:49 pm
    jygach wrote:The February issue of Martha Stewart Living has a whole-wheat Irish soda bread recipe. You should be able to access the recipe on her website. If not, pm me and I will be happy to share it with you.
    Jyoti
    I saw that recipe in the latest issue, and it helped spur me on to start my Irish soda bread trials and the chronicles thereof. Thanks.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #20 - February 4th, 2009, 11:50 pm
    Post #20 - February 4th, 2009, 11:50 pm Post #20 - February 4th, 2009, 11:50 pm
    jygach wrote:Just saw this on Rose Levy Berenbaum's blog, and thought you might be interested. The link takes you to Epicurious and offers a step-by-step guide to bread baking. Berenbaum's recipes are meticulously detailed and, in my opinion, very reliable.
    http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguide ... mers/bread
    Jyoti
    Thanks for this too; I'll give it a try.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #21 - February 4th, 2009, 11:57 pm
    Post #21 - February 4th, 2009, 11:57 pm Post #21 - February 4th, 2009, 11:57 pm
    Another question for the breadmakers is this: can I safely cut down these recipes I'm finding? I have one that produces two loaves and calls for 5 cups of flour. The Cooks Illustrated recipe calls for 3 cups of all-purpose flour and 1 cup of cake flour. There's only so much Irish soda bread I can eat in a day, especially considering that during my learning process, most of it isn't turning out very well. And I am pretty sure Sweet Baboo is not interested in helping me get rid of the leftovers (see my soon-to-be thread, "Things the Dog Will Eat With Me That My Husband Won't.") (Speaking of which, the dog did like the Cooks Illustrated Irish soda bread, at least the parts that stuck to the butter.)

    I think for testing purposes, I need to cut these recipes in half. Does anyone foresee a problem with that?
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #22 - February 5th, 2009, 9:18 am
    Post #22 - February 5th, 2009, 9:18 am Post #22 - February 5th, 2009, 9:18 am
    Katie wrote:I think for testing purposes, I need to cut these recipes in half. Does anyone foresee a problem with that?


    No problem as long as everything is cut in half proportionately.

    I haven't looked at the Cook's Illustrated recipe, so maybe this is addressed: I always add far more raisins than any soda bread recipe ever calls for. Irish bread, either commercial or made by someone else, always seems raisin sparse.

    My overall preference is Clabber Girl for baking powder.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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  • Post #23 - February 5th, 2009, 10:18 pm
    Post #23 - February 5th, 2009, 10:18 pm Post #23 - February 5th, 2009, 10:18 pm
    Looks like the recipe I use for scones is on the King Arthur Flour website. You might have an easier time trying these scones. They are near what you are going for, but they have some butter and sugar to pump up the taste.

    I don't have any whole wheat flour right now so I use all white King Arthur flour. These are great in the morning with coffee. We are at them about 5 minutes after they are out of the oven, and they are gone the same day. These are more like the scones I had in England--not too sweet, not too buttery, not all filled with different ingredients but simple and good. I use half a stick of butter in mine and I think 3 Tbsp sugar. The recipe gives you quantities to play around with. It is from the 200th Anniversary Cookbook, which I love.
    http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/Rec ... y?RID=R823

    I follow the "tea time scone" instructions but I use my hands for everything (rip dough in half, make into balls, put on a baking sheet, pat out until about an inch thick, then carefully use something not too sharp to make pie shaped cuts). I plonk the dough on the baking sheet and shape it there--the recipe instructions to shape it and then put on the pan are way too fussy for me.
    I don't actually turn the dough out to knead, I just might mix a bit in the bowl to bring the dough together. Just remember with quickbreads and biscuits, the less you handle it, the better.

    I use the little Zante currants in this as well. I like these a lot better than raisins. Adding dried fruit is described right under the recipe.

    However, if you really don't know much about baking, you might be mystified by how to "rub in" (also called "cut in") the butter. Let us know if you have questions. I use my fingers to cut in the butter.

    Biscuits, scones, and quickbreads all use similar ingredients and techniques to what you are doing with the soda bread. Once you start understanding one process and feel confident, you'll have an infinite number of recipes to play around with. Then one day you'll wake up and start thinking about baking with yeast...as someone pointed out, a whole different ballgame but also lots of fun.

    NOTE: I noticed you mentioned feeding the results to your dog. I think raisins and currants are dangerous for dogs so be careful. My dog loves all baked goods so I have to pick the currants out for her portion.
    "things like being careful with your coriander/ that's what makes the gravy grander" - Sondheim
  • Post #24 - February 6th, 2009, 10:39 am
    Post #24 - February 6th, 2009, 10:39 am Post #24 - February 6th, 2009, 10:39 am
    My parents are both from Ireland, so I grew up with soda bread as a regular part of our meals. I prefer the brown bead, our family recipe uses regular all purpose flour and wheat bran for the brown bread. approx 1/4 cup of bran to 1 cup of flour. I dont have a measured recipe to post as it is usually done by the "palmful of this and a and pinch of that method" I need to measure the exact amounts one day as it is being made and I will post the results when I do.
  • Post #25 - February 6th, 2009, 7:32 pm
    Post #25 - February 6th, 2009, 7:32 pm Post #25 - February 6th, 2009, 7:32 pm
    grits wrote:NOTE: I noticed you mentioned feeding the results to your dog. I think raisins and currants are dangerous for dogs so be careful. My dog loves all baked goods so I have to pick the currants out for her portion.
    I understand that's true, and I haven't yet made any batches with raisins, but when I do I'll be careful not to let Fuzzball have any.

    Years ago I used raisins for a short time as a training treat to teach my previous collie how to go in and out through the dog door, and I made her a piece of raisin bread once in a while too, with no apparent ill effects: she lived to be more than 14 years old (which is a long life for a collie), and never had any significant health problems. But in recent years I've heard sterner warnings about not giving raisins to dogs, so I won't be taking any chances with Baby Fuzzball.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #26 - February 6th, 2009, 7:37 pm
    Post #26 - February 6th, 2009, 7:37 pm Post #26 - February 6th, 2009, 7:37 pm
    [quote="grits"]Looks like the recipe I use for scones is on the King Arthur Flour website. You might have an easier time trying these scones. They are near what you are going for, but they have some butter and sugar to pump up the taste.

    I don't have any whole wheat flour right now so I use all white King Arthur flour. These are great in the morning with coffee. We are at them about 5 minutes after they are out of the oven, and they are gone the same day. These are more like the scones I had in England--not too sweet, not too buttery, not all filled with different ingredients but simple and good. I use half a stick of butter in mine and I think 3 Tbsp sugar. The recipe gives you quantities to play around with. It is from the 200th Anniversary Cookbook, which I love.
    http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/Rec ... y?RID=R823

    I follow the "tea time scone" instructions but I use my hands for everything (rip dough in half, make into balls, put on a baking sheet, pat out until about an inch thick, then carefully use something not too sharp to make pie shaped cuts). I plonk the dough on the baking sheet and shape it there--the recipe instructions to shape it and then put on the pan are way too fussy for me.
    I don't actually turn the dough out to knead, I just might mix a bit in the bowl to bring the dough together. Just remember with quickbreads and biscuits, the less you handle it, the better.

    I use the little Zante currants in this as well. I like these a lot better than raisins. Adding dried fruit is described right under the recipe.

    However, if you really don't know much about baking, you might be mystified by how to "rub in" (also called "cut in") the butter. Let us know if you have questions. I use my fingers to cut in the butter.

    Biscuits, scones, and quickbreads all use similar ingredients and techniques to what you are doing with the soda bread. Once you start understanding one process and feel confident, you'll have an infinite number of recipes to play around with. Then one day you'll wake up and start thinking about baking with yeast...as someone pointed out, a whole different ballgame but also lots of fun.[quote]
    Thanks for the tips and the recipe lead - I am eager to try my hand at scones too.

    I don't have one of those multibladed tools for cutting butter in to flour, but I have seen it done with a pair of butter knives, and I thought I'd try it that way, rather than invest in more hardware at this point.

    I am eager to develop some skill at yeast bread baking too, but for sentimental, geneological, family reasons, I'm determined to master Irish soda bread!
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #27 - February 6th, 2009, 7:38 pm
    Post #27 - February 6th, 2009, 7:38 pm Post #27 - February 6th, 2009, 7:38 pm
    atomicman wrote:My parents are both from Ireland, so I grew up with soda bread as a regular part of our meals. I prefer the brown bead, our family recipe uses regular all purpose flour and wheat bran for the brown bread. approx 1/4 cup of bran to 1 cup of flour. I dont have a measured recipe to post as it is usually done by the "palmful of this and a and pinch of that method" I need to measure the exact amounts one day as it is being made and I will post the results when I do.
    Looking forward to any tips you can give me, atomicman!
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #28 - March 13th, 2009, 1:42 pm
    Post #28 - March 13th, 2009, 1:42 pm Post #28 - March 13th, 2009, 1:42 pm
    Failure #1, you may recall, was the Cooks Illustrated recipe, which called for cake flour, and tasted like, well, cake.

    Now for failure #2.

    Today I tried a recipe from the "Taste of Home" website (which I'd never have known about if not for Cathy2's post on GWiv's experience with crock pot cookery).

    The recipe I picked had multiple high ratings and called for all-purpose flour, brown sugar, baking powder, baking soda, salt, butter, eggs, buttermilk, and raisins. Looking back in this thread, that's about twice as many ingredients as other recommendations, which I'll follow in my next trial.

    I am not big on mixing and kneading by hand (yes, I realize this may be an impediment to my progress in self-taught baking), so I did most of the work in the Kitchen-Aid mixer. Everything was going fine until ...

    ..."Knead on a floured surface for 1 minute." This was impossible. I managed to scrape most of the Blob out onto a floured stone, but it was so incredibly sticky, no kneading was possible. It was like a cake batter, only lumpier and even stickier. It was all I could to do scrape most of it off the stone, off my hands, and into an oiled pan. Cutting a cross into the top with a knife was out of the question.

    I used a medium-sized cast-iron pan (a tip I picked up from the "Irish Fireside" podcast). Perhaps I should have used a small pan, because during cooking the dough spread out to fill the whole radius of the pan, such that the "loaf" wound up looking like a much-eroded island, at most 3 inches tall in the center. I hate to think what would have happened if I'd put it on an unrimmed baking sheet.

    Taste, not bad at all.

    Serving convenience, not good at all, given how much the dough had spread out. Every piece I cut off looked like a slice of biscotti - the difference being that a slice of biscotti is not soft and crumbly and would not fall apart if you tried to spread butter on one side of it.

    I am thinking, though, that I could use the remains from this batch to make a bread pudding. I'll let you know how it turns out.

    Re things the dog will eat with me that the husband won't: Taylor Fuzzball could not serve as a taster for me this time, because of the raisins. (I was too discouraged with Trial #2 by this point to bother picking out raisins for the dog.) Sweet Baboo, on the other hand, might actually go for it. However, I know him well enough to know not to use either the word "Irish" nor the word "soda" when introducing him to a new and unfamiliar bread product, especially if I have any hopes of doing better at Irish soda bread in the future. I will call Trial #2 "homemade raisin bread thing."
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #29 - March 13th, 2009, 3:01 pm
    Post #29 - March 13th, 2009, 3:01 pm Post #29 - March 13th, 2009, 3:01 pm
    Katie wrote:Failure #1, you may recall, was the Cooks Illustrated recipe, which called for cake flour, and tasted like, well, cake.

    Now for failure #2.

    Today I tried a recipe from the "Taste of Home" website (which I'd never have known about if not for Cathy2's post on GWiv's experience with crock pot cookery).

    The recipe I picked had multiple high ratings and called for all-purpose flour, brown sugar, baking powder, baking soda, salt, butter, eggs, buttermilk, and raisins. Looking back in this thread, that's about twice as many ingredients as other recommendations, which I'll follow in my next trial.

    I am not big on mixing and kneading by hand (yes, I realize this may be an impediment to my progress in self-taught baking), so I did most of the work in the Kitchen-Aid mixer. Everything was going fine until ...

    ..."Knead on a floured surface for 1 minute." This was impossible. I managed to scrape most of the Blob out onto a floured stone, but it was so incredibly sticky, no kneading was possible. It was like a cake batter, only lumpier and even stickier. It was all I could to do scrape most of it off the stone, off my hands, and into an oiled pan. Cutting a cross into the top with a knife was out of the question.

    I used a medium-sized cast-iron pan (a tip I picked up from the "Irish Fireside" podcast). Perhaps I should have used a small pan, because during cooking the dough spread out to fill the whole radius of the pan, such that the "loaf" wound up looking like a much-eroded island, at most 3 inches tall in the center. I hate to think what would have happened if I'd put it on an unrimmed baking sheet.
    Hi Katie,
    It's possible the recipe you used was a quick bread recipe which would be baked in a loaf pan. (The presence of the egg made me think that.) If you link us to it, we can maybe do more troubleshooting than that.

    Traditional soda bread, scones, and biscuits shouldn't spread much when they cook, but they should rise. There should be no issue cooking on an unrimmed baking sheet, at least with all the recipes I've used.

    Try picking a simple recipe like some of the ones I've suggested above. This may be controversial but personally I see absolutely no reason to use a mixer. Biscuit dough (which is essentially what you are making) should be mixed as little as possible. When a recipe says "knead", they really mean just get the dough together enough to form a ball. You don't "knead" this kind of dough like you do a yeast bread dough. The steps you should be seeing in a recipe are: put the dry ingredients together (except for dried fruit), cut in the butter (using a knife is fine, I use my fingers), add the fruit and stir to combine, add the liquid ingredients, and stir lightly until just combined, then lightly knead to get dough in a ball. I just then use my hands to get the dough together in the same bowl I mixed in and then proceed to shape right on the cookie sheet. (If I were making biscuits I would roll out the dough on the counter and then cut out the biscuits and place on cookie sheet.)

    These quick breads you're making are designed to be able to put together quickly when you get up in the morning or before dinner (for hot biscuits). Once you get the hang of it, you won't believe you ever had a problem. It sounds like the recipes you are using are overcomplicating things. Try a simpler one and see if that goes any better. I still think the scone recipe I linked to from KAF is a great place to start. It's very similar to a soda bread recipe--it is just a little richer. Keep on baking!
    "things like being careful with your coriander/ that's what makes the gravy grander" - Sondheim

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