Smoking in the kitchen--is it kosher?

So yesterday I stopped in at an establishment where I have been a loyal, if infrequent (due to proximity), customer for several years. I placed my order, received the goods, and was paying when I saw through the window behind the counter someone smoking in the kitchen. The person was standing right next to the window, with the lit cigarette literally inches from the product. (All I saw of the person was his/her forearm, hand, and cigarette.) Incidentally, a sign that reads "No Smoking" appears above the window (on the counter side). I was pretty grossed out, but didn't let on. I got my change and left.

This is a business highly regarded on this board, and I have always been a supporter. If this were a place I'd never been before I'd never go back, but since this is the only time I've had any problem there I'm trying to forget it and really wished I hadn't seen it. Is this a big deal? Would calling the manager to complain and rat out the person be appropriate? Or is this the kind of thing that goes on everywhere all the time but is generally hidden so as not to offend the sensibilities of the customers?

If only I'd had my camera, I could've had a really terriffic "Guess the Restaurant" photo!

Boy, I sure think it's a big deal. Totally unsanitary for one, of course.
An added plus: if there's baked goods around-they could absorb that wonderful aroma of burnt chemicals mixed with a little tobacco.
Been in restaurant kitchens for 20 years and never encountered it. (Well, once I barged into a neighboring establishment's kitchen to borrow something and saw 2 line cooks passing a joint.)
I suppose it could be happening at some places with a low level of management, but, especially in this day and age one would not expect it to be common practice.
The ratting question, to me, hinges on whether the offender would get fired. (I realize that this morsel of highly enlightened insight doesn't help your decision one iota.)

The Wisconsin Food Code states: All employees must, eat, drink, or use tobacco only in designated areas where contamination to food, equipment, utensils, and other materials cannot occur. Smoking and eating must be allowed in designated areas only. These areas are to be separate from food prep areas and all storage areas. Correct hand washing and drying is required before working with food products after eating, drinking, or smoking.

I'm sure the Cook County Health Department has a similar hygenic food code. How it's practiced and enforced, is another story. Public health should never be compromised.

I think I would report it. I say "think" because sometimes I am not as proactive about these types of situations as I should be, but I definitely think it is reasonable and responsible to say something. Aside from everything that everyone else has mentioned, said kitchen worker could have dropped ashes into the food, which is pretty nasty, and, more importantly, is bringing his hand to his mouth, and then touching food he is preparing for you (I think you said it was a he? I'm not trying to assume), which is an excellent way to spread illness.

Frankly, with all the things I've heard and seen happening in restaurant kitchens, I think this is the least of your worries.

The fact that it may be the "least of your worries" doesn't mean that it's right. (I don't mean to pick on midas; others have made similar points in other threads. And yes, I understand the point and even agree with it in some sense.) I don't see how the fact that other things may be happening that are worrisome means you should ignore this one. Whether you disclose the establishment, report the offender to management, or choose some other course, I think that if it bothered you enough to wonder about it publicly here, it bothered you enough to do something about it. What that something is, is your choice. But I would encourage you to take some action.

HI,

If you disclose the establishments name, then please don't do here on LTHforum. While we are having a general discussion on the issue of kitchen staff smoking, which is interesting. If you specifically state the establishment, then it crosses into an area where there is potential liability to the website, and the post will be pulled.

From "Posting Guidelines":

Some types of posts have legal implications for you and the site. Please refrain from accusations of criminal activity, health code violations, or other wrongdoing. If your complaint is serious and provable, please take it to the proper authorities. Further, we find reports of restaurant and purveyor violations or closures, regardless of the circumstances, to be an area ripe for competitor abuse. We will remove these posts unless substantiated with a published source, e.g. a link to a quality published account.

I have to admit to having seen kitchen staff taking a smoke in the past. It never occurred to me it was a health code violation. Just never gave it a thought.

Live and learn!

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:I have to admit to having seen kitchen staff taking a smoke in the past. It never occurred to me it was a health code violation. Just never gave it a thought.

Exactly. Let's not create another tempest in a teapot in the name of political correctness. We've got the City Council for that.

-I don't get the above comment-what does political correctness have to do with a health code violation?

stewed coot wrote:I don't get the above comment-what does political correctness have to do with a health code violation?

Nothing. And it is a health code violation.

(PS Thanks, Cathy2, for making a point I should have been clear about re "outing" a company on LTH.)

Thanks to all for your input.

...if there's baked goods around-they could absorb that wonderful aroma of burnt chemicals mixed with a little tobacco.

There were baked goods present. The stuff I bought was strongly scented by (appropriate) ingredients so I was unable to ascertain any smokiness, if there was any.

I don't intend to name names here, and it actually didn't occur to me at all to call the health department. I am still considering calling the business tomorrow to speak to management. If it were my business, I think I'd want to know if this was going on. I don't really want anyone to lose a job, though, so I'm undecided. I just don't want unclean food in the future.

While we are talking about health code violations, smoking is one of the more common offences. However, in many cases, having a beverage or eating food while you are working is also a violation in many municipalities.

Whats wrong with outing people/companies online?

It's done everyday.

That's what media is/does. It's only negligible if it is not true and then it's even questionable. But if you are reporting something you saw go ahead and report it!

Snark wrote:Whats wrong with outing people/companies online?

It's done everyday.

That's what media is/does. It's only negligible if it is not true and then it's even questionable. But if you are reporting something you saw go ahead and report it!

No. As stated earlier this is addressed in our posting guidelines. If you feel inclined to debate this further, then please read this first: Note on Moderator Decisions.

Regards,

It is not a big deal.

Yep. My word. I might be slightly taken aback(in this day n age) spying back-of-the-house smoking in the kitchen, but...

there are so many other worse health code violations I can think of

As I recall from having taken the foodservice exam in Chicago (over ten years ago, so my memory may be a little rusty) the issue with smoking is less about ash, unpleasant though that may be in your food. It's more that your hands are carrying the cigarette back and forth to and from your mouth, thus allowing contamination.

I'd drop a note to management - they should have a designated smoking area for employees to use on breaks. It's true, many kitchens aren't as clean as we'd think - but I think, as consumers, when a gaff is right out there in the open, it should be pointed out.

Mhays wrote:It's more that your hands are carrying the cigarette back and forth to and from your mouth, thus allowing contamination.

Meh. I prefer my food to be
handled as little as possible
by bare hands anyway. I'd
also prefer bakers without
hairy knuckles, facial hair
hair-nets and mouth-covering
spittle-shields, but that ain't
happening any time soon.

So that's another vote for
Big Whoop.

SCUBAchef wrote:

Mhays wrote:It's more that your hands are carrying the cigarette back and forth to and from your mouth, thus allowing contamination.

Meh. I prefer my food to be
handled as little as possible
by bare hands anyway. I'd
also prefer bakers without
hairy knuckles, facial hair
hair-nets and mouth-covering
spittle-shields, but that ain't
happening any time soon.

So that's another vote for
Big Whoop.

About the hands.

The place I worked was often the destination for the food inspectors luncheons. During one of the luncheons I stopped in and got involved in quite a discussion about hand washing. It was a man's opinion that bare hands are generally cleaner than gloved hands. His reasoning was that when a bare hand gets dirty the person washes their hands more. Whereas someone wearing gloves rarely will wash their hands.

Good point-(Plus the gloves can melt when you light up your cig.)

stewed coot wrote:Been in restaurant kitchens for 20 years and never encountered it.

never worked in Chinese restaurant, eh?

i find hairs in my food much more offensive than the thought of a cook smoking. and i hate smoking.

Never worked in a Chinese kitchen...will totally take your word for it.
(I do think physical objects in food clearly is of greater concern-but you might have to compare a hair to a cigarette butt in that case.)
Anyway, I guess where I come down on this is that I can tell you horror stories about sanitation in restaurants, and I'm sure others can match or beat me, but nothing off-kilter should be allowed, and certainly not encouraged.

Hand washing is perhaps the most important action one can take to prevent the spread of disease. Gloves are not a substitute for effective hand washing. Gloves can spread contaminents just like bare hands. Plastic gloves worn by food service workers are often incorrectly used. When plastic gloves are worn, they must be disposed of after each use, such as: going from raw to cooked food, handling money, or picking up objects from the floor. Each of these actions requires a new set of clean gloves and hands must be thoroughly washed each time a new set of gloves is worn.

CSD

Licensed Professional Food Handler-State of Wisconsin

I agree with all the hand washing information in tghe last post.

Personally, I fired the last employee that I found smoking in a kitchen. There is just no place for it AND that was one of the work rules that was well covered at orientation.

jlawrence01 wrote:I agree with all the hand washing information in tghe last post.

Personally, I fired the last employee that I found smoking in a kitchen. There is just no place for it AND that was one of the work rules that was well covered at orientation.

Ditto!

Though she must have forgotten that I was the one to fire her. I recently had the unfortunate luck to be served by her at another restaurant and she seemed very excited to see me again.

Flip wrote:Though she must have forgotten that I was the one to fire her. I recently had the unfortunate luck to be served by her at another restaurant and she seemed very excited to see me again.

She was excited because revenge is sweet.

stevez wrote:

Flip wrote:Though she must have forgotten that I was the one to fire her. I recently had the unfortunate luck to be served by her at another restaurant and she seemed very excited to see me again.

She was excited because revenge is sweet.

Trust me, I didn't eat much! The scariest thing was that she was training a new server during our meal.

Flip