I recently made our favorite pasta sauce and canned 25 pint jars. I was reading the most recent canning "rules" and was surprised, as I hadn't canned in a few years. I wasn't expecting to have to add lemon juice - I think 1 tablespoon per pint - to ensure proper acidification. This caused quite a bit of consternation!

There are so many variables to canning tomatoes and sauces. If you pressure canned the tomato sauce, then added lemon juice is not so much an issue. I rely on USDA home canning guidelines for the final decision on how to adapt recipes and process. There is a very good online website that I recommend everytime these issues come up:

For research based canning, freezing and preserving information:

National Center for Food Preservation

I suggest obtaining their book (bible in my mind) So Easy To Preserve with the latest U.S. Department of Agriculture recommendations for safe food preservation.

I have seen wrong processing recommendations in the Blue Book, which many people rely on for recipes and processing information.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:HI,

I had to look up BARF (bones and raw food). Too bad you don't have a cat. Last year I was given samples of raw cat food, which I would happily give you. I defrosted one, which had a strong odor of cod liver oil. My girl lives off of Fancy Feast, who sniffed the raw food and took off not to return until dinner was really served.

Regards,

Cats, as the cliche goes, are much more finicky than dogs. For our girl "Friday", we buy cheap cuts of meat and offal. I had my first trip to Peoria Packing last weekend and brought back some ears and tails. Now my girlfriend is super-excited about the place and can't wait to go this weekend.

For any pet owners, "Food Pets Die For" by Ann Martin is sort of the "Omnivore's Dilemma" of pet food. Unfortunately, the prescriptive section of the book isn't very good. "The nature of animal healing" by veterinarian Martin Goldstein is better.

This is only somewhat on topic, sorry. But we never buy commercial dog food in the store. There are some organic pet foods that are nearly as good as a raw diet, though. Solid Gold brand, which is available at Barker and Meowsky, and other pet boutiques is a good one.

Really interesting discussion on home canning/jarring below great info! Glad i joined this board.

ViewsAskew wrote:Sorry to add more bad news. . .botulism doesn't give you many hints, if any, that it is there, and even when it tastes bad, a taste can literally kill you. Now, on the other hand, I recently read that the reported cases from home canned products is quite small in the US every year.

I believe that the reason WHY there are few killed by improper canning is that few amateurs (read that as inexperienced) actually do it. The people that I know who can come from families that have been doing it for generations and are lessoned in the "RULES" of canning. My wife canned with her mother until she was well into her twenties before mom would let her be responsible for the canning.

My mother who came from the city, NEVER canned and refused lessons from her MIL. Instead, in our house, we always had a huge chest freezer and a portion of the basement as a root cellar to store winter foodstuffs.

I was listening to Melinda Lee, a great food talk show host who had a show on KFI-640 Los Angeles a few years ago when she had a caller who was given a peck of fresh olives. he "canned" them by putting them in a jar and covering the olives with oil. She told him to pitch them out as they were probably contaminated. Then she sent hom (and later me), a University of California Extention brochure on how to cure and can olives (all of 15 8.5x11 sheets) which involved lye. At that point, I decided it was easier to buy the olives prepared!

JoelF wrote:

Mhays wrote:I was going to say french fries, but realized that I pass up any number of potato products, both fresh and frozen, whose existence I don't understand.

Mmmmm.... Tater Tots (why don't we have a drooling emoticon, anyway?)

Is it possible to make tater tots at home?

Great topic!
We make hummus regularly at home (Michael, do soak the garbanzos overnight and use your pressure cooker, adding a pinch of baking soda). With a food processor it's a breeze. The homemade tahini is tempting.

Try Mexican oregano in guacamole.

gleam wrote:

seebee wrote:
3. Hot Chocolate Powder.

This sounds pretty tempting. Can you give me an idea of the rough ratios? 4 parts sugar/3 parts cocoa/1 part milk?

Thanks for the reminder! Three years ago we tested various recipes and have never bought hot cocoa mixes. The recipe we liked a lot is Jacque Torres' hot hot chocolatewhich has a touch of cayenne (IIRC we used 2tsp per 1X recipe) and cinnamon stick to stir (can be reused a few times). Use a premuim bittersweet chocolate (grating can be a bit of a pain - freeze the chocolate for a bit, and don't worry about a few lumps, they'll melt anyway) - and no sugar.

I found this a few years ago, but didn't know where I picked it up from:

· Homemade Tater Tots
·
·
· 8 medium potatoes, cooked and peeled
· 4 tablespoons flour
· 1 dash pepper
· 1 teaspoon salt
· Canola oil
Finely shred or use ricer while potatoes are hot. Stir in flour, salt, and pepper. Heat 1/4" oil in heavy pan. Form into small balls and drop into oil. Fry till slightly golden. Drain on paper towels, then freeze for later use in tater tot casserole. Or to serve alone, bake in single layer on baking sheet at 400F till of desired cripsness.

It's something to try for fun sometime.

Regards,

Cooked potatoes? That sounds like you'd get too soft of a result. I'd consider a mix of half cooked, half raw chipped spuds to give you texture, and that's what makes the Tot what it is.

For the latkes I made last month, I used my Cuisinart's large shredder, then chopped the results (which could be up to 3" long) with pulses of the metal blade. The same might work well.

What you're describing sounds more like fried mashed potatoes (try sticking some brisket in the middle of a patty before shallow frying, and you get kremslach)

JoelF,

I don't feel too much ownership to this recipe. I clipped it because it amused me since many advise tater tots cannot be made at home. In fact I have maybe had only a handful of tater tots in my life. I can't recall eating them as a kid.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:

I recently made our favorite pasta sauce and canned 25 pint jars. I was reading the most recent canning "rules" and was surprised, as I hadn't canned in a few years. I wasn't expecting to have to add lemon juice - I think 1 tablespoon per pint - to ensure proper acidification. This caused quite a bit of consternation!

There are so many variables to canning tomatoes and sauces. If you pressure canned the tomato sauce, then added lemon juice is not so much an issue. I rely on USDA home canning guidelines for the final decision on how to adapt recipes and process.

I actually decided NOT to ruin my perfect (for our family) sauce with the lemon juice and a water bath, and instead pressure canned. It's funny, though, no one gave guidelines for doing this that I could find or even said it was possible. Obviously, since we can nonacid things through pressure, it's possible!

jlawrence01 wrote:

ViewsAskew wrote:Sorry to add more bad news. . .botulism doesn't give you many hints, if any, that it is there, and even when it tastes bad, a taste can literally kill you. Now, on the other hand, I recently read that the reported cases from home canned products is quite small in the US every year.

I believe that the reason WHY there are few killed by improper canning is that few amateurs (read that as inexperienced) actually do it. The people that I know who can come from families that have been doing it for generations and are lessoned in the "RULES" of canning.

You know, I'm not so sure of that. The rules have changed dramatically in the last twenty years. It used to be accepted that ALL tomato products and sauce were completely safe using the water bath method. Now? Only if you add extra acid, otherwise pressure is recommended. I remember my grandmother - following the rules - canning veggies in the 60s and 70s using a water bath. I still have her canning books and when I first started canning, I almost followed those directions. Now? Almost all veggies are supposed to be pressure canned, except tomatoes. If you look at any canning or veggie discussion board, every year there are debates by people who still follow the "old" rules and say they've never gotten sick. . .

JoelF wrote:Cooked potatoes? That sounds like you'd get too soft of a result. I'd consider a mix of half cooked, half raw chipped spuds to give you texture, and that's what makes the Tot what it is.

Its the same principle as par-frying french fries for crispness and browning.

ViewsAskew wrote:I actually decided NOT to ruin my perfect (for our family) sauce with the lemon juice and a water bath, and instead pressure canned. It's funny, though, no one gave guidelines for doing this that I could find or even said it was possible. Obviously, since we can nonacid things through pressure, it's possible!

Not only is it possible, it is recommended you pressure can your tomato sauce. I do appreciate your intuitive sense not to waterbath can under these circumstances. Tomato sauces (also salsa, soup, ketchup, chili sauce) are not working purely with tomatoes, you have likely introduced onions, garlic, oregano, garlic, ect with quantities varying wildly from one person's taste to another. While you made estimates before, you now have access to via the link in my earlier post to very reliable research based information.

Over the weekend I was talking to the person I usually can with about tomato sauces. We have observed the pressure processing does change the taste to some extent, which we later adjust by seasoning. Does your family favorite taste the same after processing?

ViewsAskew wrote:The rules have changed dramatically in the last twenty years. It used to be accepted that ALL tomato products and sauce were completely safe using the water bath method. Now? Only if you add extra acid, otherwise pressure is recommended.

All the changes were made against new information. I once went to a Master Gardner conference where we met a researcher who had heirloom, low acid and run of the mill tomato plants planted throughout the Illinois. They evaluated the acid levels of all these tomatoes to discover they were not as acidic as supposed. Ironically sometimes the low-acid varieties had less pH (more acidic) than regular and heirloom tomatoes. It was based on this information lemon juice was introduced to tomatoes in home canned products to assure a safe and uniform level of acidity.

ViewsAskew wrote:Almost all veggies are supposed to be pressure canned, except tomatoes. If you look at any canning or veggie discussion board, every year there are debates by people who still follow the "old" rules and say they've never gotten sick. . .

The only time veggies are not pressure canned is when acids have been introduced for pickled products like beets, corn, etc. I make bread-and-butter, 14-day and fermented pickles, which I pasteurized (180-184 F for 30 minutes). Nobody else I know does this, and it is USDA approved, but the pickles remain crunchy, which is what I value in a pickle.

Susan Brewer, PhD used to head the Master Food Preserver program at University of Illinois Extension. I once talked to her about these people who used traditional method of canning vegetables who lay claim to never getting sick. She commented people used to boil the hell out of their vegetables before serving, which may have been their saving grace.

Could you please advise which canning or vegetable discussion boards do you follow?

I see we have another canning enthusiast on board, great!

Regards,

Relatedly - how long should I assume my home canned jams are good for? I used the low-sugar/ add pectin method (boil, boil some more, boil the jars, put hot stuff into hot jars, seal and boil for at least 10 (I think) mins).

The seals all look fine, but they are now 3 years old. I had one of the Sour Cherry ones recently, and it was still tasty.

october271986 wrote:This is only somewhat on topic, sorry. But we never buy commercial dog food in the store. There are some organic pet foods that are nearly as good as a raw diet, though. Solid Gold brand, which is available at Barker and Meowsky, and other pet boutiques is a good one.

They carry Solid Gold at Petco now.

I believe that the reason WHY there are few killed by improper canning is that few amateurs (read that as inexperienced) actually do it. The people that I know who can come from families that have been doing it for generations and are lessoned in the "RULES" of canning. My wife canned with her mother until she was well into her twenties before mom would let her be responsible for the canning.


Sadly enough, I DO come from a long line of canners in the family, and a whole line of in-laws do too. I also make raspberry jam every few years.
I was not even thinking of botulism because of the salt soak, and refrigeration. Not really "canning," more of a relish of sorts. Either way, to all: thanks for the info.

Cathy2 wrote:While you made estimates before, you now have access to via the link in my earlier post to very reliable research based information.

Does your family favorite taste the same after processing?

The only time veggies are not pressure canned is when acids have been introduced for pickled products like beets, corn, etc. I make bread-and-butter, 14-day and fermented pickles, which I pasteurized (180-184 F for 30 minutes). Nobody else I know does this, and it is USDA approved, but the pickles remain crunchy, which is what I value in a pickle.

Could you please advise which canning or vegetable discussion boards do you follow?


Regards,

I am glad you gave the link. I have to remember to save it for the next time. I must have done twenty searches and checked 50 sites - not a one suggested to use pressure with tomatoes instead of ruining them with lemon juice. Bleh.

But, you are right, the canning does change the taste, but not terribly. Even the slight difference from canning is tremendously better than any store product. My MIL is from Calabria. I never liked red sauce much until I met her (and not because I was sucking up, either!). It's soooo simple - just olive oil, garlic, tomatoes, basil, fennel, sugar (to taste - not needed if the tomatoes are already sweet) and a little salt. It sounds boring and bland, but it's truly sublime. The first time she made it with me, I was eating it like soup. Sometimes one BIL puts on onions and peppers and that's good, too.

Your pickle idea sounds good. I'll have to remember it.

Uh. . .I don't follow any canning boards with religiosity - usually just do some searches and read posts when I'm going to can. I am guessing you have some favorites? Before life in the city, I lived in the country and did a nice organic garden. Nothing like salsa made only from ingredients in your backyard, all picked that day, and without any nasty chemicals on them.

Not to hijack this thread anymore, I'll have to add something on topic. I cannot buy many store bought items. DH has celiac disease and so many products have gluten in them. I make most things myself, though I do buy canned tomatoes, etc. and some frozen veggies. So, for me, it's more like "what do you now not make at home" lol. Though, in the past few years, it has improved dramatically. I can get bouillon, a few stocks/broths, even some frozen pizza, and even one oyster sauce that are gluten-free. Woo-hoo! It's a pain to love food and not have access to a lot of it unless you make it from scratch. I am dreaming of the day I've been here long enough to get somebody to help us translate some of the Asian menus - eating at most places is completely out. Each time we think we're safe, we find out something new that we didn't know, like that some roe as sushi restaurants is marinated in something that contains wheat. . .oh, well, no more roe on our rolls.

G Wiv wrote:


Enjoy,
Gary

This picture made me think of Mitch Hedberg's bit about homemade sprite:

They say the recipe for Sprite is lemon and lime. But I tried to make it at home; there's more to it than that. "Want some more homemade Sprite?" "Not 'til you figure out what the fuck else is in it!"

But speaking of homemade vs store bought, does anyone else use the Kitchen Basics line of stocks? They come in juicebox size containers which is usually just what I need. They taste much better than the canned stocks IMHO.

JohnnyConatus

JohnnyConatus wrote:

G Wiv wrote:


Enjoy,
Gary

This picture made me think of Mitch Hedberg's bit about homemade sprite:

They say the recipe for Sprite is lemon and lime. But I tried to make it at home; there's more to it than that. "Want some more homemade Sprite?" "Not 'til you figure out what the fuck else is in it!"

But speaking of homemade vs store bought, does anyone else use the Kitchen Basics line of stocks? They come in juicebox size containers which is usually just what I need. They taste much better than the canned stocks IMHO.

JohnnyConatus

I try to have homemade stocks on hand in the freezer, but sometimes need a bit extra...or have simply run out and don't feel like going through the process right then and there. In most cases I pick up Swanson's low sodium broth. Kitchen Basics used to be horrible...bitter...dreck(and they're still not all that great...definitely better than a few years ago), but I do enjoy the efficacy of being able to buy those juicebox sizes. It's been oft repeated: Swanson's Naturals won the C.I. taste test awhile back.

JohnnyConatus wrote:
They say the recipe for Sprite is lemon and lime. But I tried to make it at home; there's more to it than that.

Actually, and in the spirit of this thread, it is very easy to make a carbonated citrus drink at home that is far better than Sprite, 7-Up, et. al.

In Mexico, the limonada preparada (made with limes) or naranjada preparada (made with oranges) is my non-alcoholic bar drink of choice on a hot day. Simply make up a simply sugar syrup and get it very cold. Squeeze some lime or lemon juice into a glass (a little over half a lemon or lime per glass depending on the size of the glass and personal taste). Pour in some sugar syrup (maybe 1/4 cup - I don't really measure but the end result is much less sweet than Sprite). Stir well. Throw in a few ice cubes and then fill with carbonated water. A skewer with a slice of citrus fruit and a cherry for garnish.

Bill/SFNM

I agree with everything CG just said. We almost always have chicken stock in our freezer (although not right now ), but in a pinch, or if we need beef stock (which we haven't made yet), we use the Swanson/Campbell's low sodium stuff. I also wasn't too impressed with the Kitchen Basics stuff when I tried it, but I haven't tried it in a long time. We also usually use at least 1/2 of the big boxes of Swanson stock, so we don't generally need those small cartons.

Christopher Gordon wrote:It's been oft repeated: Swanson's Naturals won the C.I. taste test awhile back.

Thanks for the tip. What's CI short for again? I know I've seen it here before.

JohnnyConatus

Cook's Illustrated Magazine

nr706 wrote:Cook's Illustrated Magazine

Thanks, I got a sample issue of that once and loved it. It may be time to sign-up.

JohnnyConatus wrote:

Christopher Gordon wrote:It's been oft repeated: Swanson's Naturals won the C.I. taste test awhile back.

Thanks for the tip. What's CI short for again? I know I've seen it here before.

JohnnyConatus

fyi: I flip back and forth between Swanson's and Kitchen Basics...I've tried the other big brands and...feh. Okay, I guess Pacific is okay in a pinch. Anyhow, it's definitely Swanson's that I turn to most often when in need. Like I posted earlier, Kitchen Basics used to be godawful(though there have always been fierce adherents), but they seem to have worked on their product over the years. To each his own. All of which reminds me it's gettin' to be stock-making time...I'm running low.

Back to the subject of my "Death Giardinera" -
I often buy the little jars of chopped garlic and they have kept for months after being opened and stored in the fridge without killing anyone. How are those prepared for their shelf life?

seebee wrote:Back to the subject of my "Death Giardinera" -
I often buy the little jars of chopped garlic and they have kept for months after being opened and stored in the fridge without killing anyone. How are those prepared for their shelf life?

They probably have an ingredient list on the side of the jar. That'd be where I would check.

I generally don't buy those jars of garlic, but I believe that they are not stored in oil but in some type of brine.

The jar of chopped garlic must contain some kind of mild acid or a commercial food preservative.

FWIW, garlic is incredibly cheap, and with a garlic press or just a good chef's knife, easy to process for a recipe. Jarred garlic is to fresh garlic like bottled lemon juice is to fresh lemon juice. Try two batches of a favorite recipe, one with jarred garlic and one with fresh garlic to see the difference.

I keep a small terra cotta garlic "cellar" on my counter with a head or two of garlic at all times. If a clove happens to sprout, I pull out the green center after peeling the clove and slicing it in half. Garlic cellars are available at any kitchen supply store or even a Target.

I tried one of those jars of prechopped 'fresh' garlic once many moons ago and wasn't too thrilled. I do things in my kitchen for the most part according to relatively old-fashioned methods, in large part just because I enjoy doing things that way, and so, if I need to process a lot of fresh garlic, I just make the time to do it -- it's a pain in a way, unless one decides that it's actually pleasureable. That said -- and this is the real point of this post -- many Mexican groceries sell fresh, peeled cloves of garlic in plastic containers -- they're always in the produce sections and one can see that they typically are quite fresh. If one needs a lot of fresh garlic to prepare large amounts of food for a party (or, for that matter, for processing and storing), I think I would buy the garlic in that format rather than in the jarred and brined (or whatever) format.

Antonius

Antonius wrote:-- many Mexican groceries sell fresh, peeled cloves of garlic in plastic containers -- they're always in the produce sections and one can see that they typically quite fresh.

A,

As do Korean grocers.

Enjoy,
Gary