Sapore di Napoli - Pizzeria & Gelateria

I called this place on Dec 26 and they said they planned a soft opening for that upcoming weekend.

Has anyone had the chance to check it out yet?

Sapore di Napoli
1406 W. Belmont Ave
Chicago, IL
773-935-1212
www.saporedinapoli.net

I have not tried, but they got the glamor shot in this week's Time Out, the full-page photo which runs at the beginning of the Eat Out section

This is their first venture, but Alec says they spent some time in Italy doing their homework and he’s been trained by some hard-core pizzaiolas. A high-tech, triple-decker, refractory brick oven heats up to 750 degrees to kick out any of the dozen varieties of ’zas in three minutes.

Curious to hear from you natives how the pies are in this place. If they did their homework in Naples, they would not be using that type of oven at that temperature. Not to say the pizza won't be good - I just wonder how authentic how it will be.

Bill (no pizza for you!)/SFNM

I just saw the mention in TOC also.
I must admit, I'm initially suspicious of a place very close in name and menu to an existing, thriving favorite.

I'm all for competiton [probably not apt, maybe "proliferation"] and flattery. Maybe "Napoli" will become like "Ray's." I never thought that Chicago would get a bunch of Italian pizza places before NYC got a bunch of Mexican taquerias...

johnny wrote:I must admit, I'm initially suspicious of a place very close in name and menu to an existing, thriving favorite.

I have to admit, I scanned this thread title and thought it was another thread about Spacca Napoli.

LTH,

Stopped at Sapore di Napoli for lunch today. Spotless single store front with comfortable seating, picture window looking out on Belmont and, especially important for a small space in Chicago winters, a two door entryway.

Owner was there with his wife, friendly, good attention to detail, and they seemed to have a steady stream of lunch take away. The pizza oven, in plain sight, is imposing, a serious piece of equipment.

I ordered a Margherita, which, in short order, was brought to the table uncut, though the owner/waiter/chef had a pizza cutter in hand I declined and went commando. I requested olive oil and was brought a small bottle of good quality slightly fruity tasting olive oil.

Pizza was made with quality ingredients, tomato sauce had a pronounced fresh flavor, blistering on the bottom of the crust and I liked the overall proportions, no goopy cheese bomb at Sapore di Napoli.

My inital thought was this is a friendly pizza. Friendly? Well it was likable, like a friendly cute puppy, bright flavors, well put together and tasted good. What the pizza lacked, and this may be due to the fact it's the third day in business or gas oven as opposed to wood burning, was depth, gravitas if you will.

Panini, salads and appetizers sounded good, gelato looked terrific, and I'm guessing Sapore di Napoli will be a well deserved hit in the neighborhood.

Enjoy,
Gary

GWIV,

How much does the wood burning add to the crust as opposed to the brick - can you tell a difference? Also, do you know if the cheese, and tomato suace is as artisanal as Spacco Napoli?

Also, is it BYOB?

Snark wrote:How much does the wood add to the crust as opposed to the brick - can you tell a difference? Also, do you know if the cheese, and tomato suace is as artislanal as Spacco Napoli?

Also, is it BYOB?

Snarp,

Wood adds dimension and flavor and, yes, I can tell a difference. Not sure of your definition of artisanal, but the sauce is made in house, not sure of the provenance of the cheese.

No idea if Sapore di Napoli is BYOB, but you could call, ask and post the answer here. I be interested as well.

Enjoy,
Gary

What are some of the toppings? Do you know if they carry Parma? Homemade sausage? What about fresh jalapenos? Kid menu?

I have been craving a pizza I could only get at Pizzeria Paradiso in DC that has a Napolean crust with parma and arugula - it was to die for and would love to find something like it in the city - thanks!

Sorry to ask specific questions but their website doesnt give any kind of menu.

BTW - Im going tomorrow!

Snark wrote:What are some of the toppings? Do you know if they carry Parma? Homemade sausage? What about fresh jalapenos? Kid menu?

I have been craving a pizza I could only get at Pizzeria Paradiso in DC that has a Napolean crust with parma and arugula - it was to die for and would love to find something like it in the city - thanks!

Sorry to ask specific questions but their website doesnt give any kind of menu.

BTW - Im going tomorrow!

Snark,

Not sure on the kids menu or sausage, but I can answer, courtesy of the take out menu in my hand, yes, they have arugula and prosciutto di parma as an option. For that matter, so does Spacca Napoli.

Enjoy,
Gary

They do take reservations and they do have BYOB - $5 a bottle.

Pizza is obviously a very sensitive issue here at LTH and to talk about any style of pizza is something that takes some serious contemplation. My experience at Sapore di Napoli last night was no exception. Any place attempting to make a true Neapoletan pie, especially here in Chicago, will always lure me their way.

I knew we were in for some rough seas while waiting for our pizza. I looked over at an adjacent table’s pies and noticed that they were as pale as an Alaskan college student. I went with Erik M and he noted that the pies were cooked for approximately 3 ½ minutes in a 600 degree electric oven (Moretti Forni). Using entirely Caputo 00 flour and cooking it at these low temperatures could only yield a crust that would produce something less than optimum bread. As Bill/SFNM pointed out to me, many typical pizzerias in Naples cook their pies in ovens that produce less than ideal temperatures for a Neapoletan pizza (at least 750 degrees). In fact, to compensate for the oven’s inability (or misuse?) to make a quality Neapoletan style pizza, Sapor di Napoli actually created a cracker crust pie instead.

If you like a cracker crust pizza and don’t have any expectations for an authentic Neapoletan pie, there’s a possibility that you just might find their pizza serviceable. However, for a small Neapoletan pizza at these prices ($12-$15), you might find it a poor value relative to other truly similar pizzerias such as Candlelite, Marie’s, Vito & Nick’s, etc. Even though they are using such ingredients as San Marzano tomatoes and Caputo 00 flour, it doesn’t give this place any edge whatsoever over any of those other pizzerias.

IMO, these pies are incorrectly made with the type of flour they’ve chosen to use. In addition, their toppings, such as fresh cherry tomatoes (out of season), marginal mozzarella, and nondescript prosciutto added absolutely nothing to the experience. The crust tasted pasty due to being slightly undercooked in the middle as well as using too much loose flour to prevent sticking.

I usually don’t find it useful, interesting, or beneficial to write negatively about a new restaurant since the possibility for future improvement is likely. However, after talking to the owner/pizzaioli at length, it immediately became clear that he was very pleased with his pizza as it stands. If this is an accurate assessment of Sapore di Napoli, I find no reason at all to ever retry it.

PIGMON wrote:I knew we were in for some rough seas while waiting for our pizza. I looked over at an adjacent table’s pies and noticed that they were as pale as an Alaskan college student.

Pigmon,

My lunchtime pizza on Friday was not "pale as an Alaskan college student."*, but nicely charred on the bottom with blister marks on the outside of the crust.

Just another data point.

Enjoy,
Gary

*What a great line

Pigmon,

As you say, they just opened but...

I must say that from the looks of things in the photos, I'm strongly inclined to wonder how much experience they have. Of course, from a few photos, one can hardly judge more than a few things with any degree of certainty but given those photos and your commentary, it seems that the consistency and form of the crust is not satisfactory, not only from a 'Neapolitan' standpoint in the narrowest sense, but from a broader and basic Italian standpoint.

I've made a lot of bread and pizza dough and, while I've long been aware that the Neapolitan pizzerie use '00', I find it doesn't especially do anything for me in that application and I have stuck to the unfashionable but -- if properly handled -- more than serviceable good old all-purpose unbleached flour. For someone like Bill SF/NM and others who have the right oven, yes, imported Neapolitan '00' pizza flour makes great sense but in a basic kitchen oven running at 500, I think it's wasted and the all-purpose might actually work better.

Anyway, it seems inevitable that lots of people will jump on the Neapolitan pizza band-wagon but, as is usually the case, most of them will not 'get it'. To me, as I've said so many times, good pizza is based on good bread, good dough (-- and that view seems to be universal among people who are really interested in making fine pizza). Good dough is made not by using the most exotic or expensive flour but by getting the proportions and texture right (a question of feel) and controlling the fermentation. Don't get me wrong: I'm not poo-pooing Caputo's '00', not by a long shot. For someone who is already a knowledgeable, experienced baker/pizzaiolo with great equipment, it makes perfect sense to keep striving for perfection on any and all fronts. But when you're cooking at 500º or even 600º F,* there are things you have to do to make the pizza work and using Caputo's '00' doesn't seem to me to be one of them. Of course, for 'p.r.' purposes it may be a good thing to be able to claim but the best p.r. for a place that wants to be known for making Italian pizza is making quality dough and with that a properly formed and cooked crust.

From what I see in the pictures, I think they need to work on the basic techniques of dough making and pizza forming, at least if they are in any serious sense trying to produce a Neapolitan or Italian style pizza. As you say, though, the crust of the one pie in the photos looks more like a 'cracker' style crust. That and the pastry style crust so popular around here are relatively easy to make and require neither an imported oven nor imported flour. The other pie (with rocket and Parma ham) has a crust that definitely looks more bread-like with some good airiness but it also is clearly improperly cooked (it also seems like the crust may be kind of thick but it's hard to tell for sure without a cross-section view).

I'd like to give them a try some time in a few weeks inshAllah for fairness' sake, and with an open mind, when they've had a chance to settle into a routine and rhythm. They just opened and maybe the pizzas pictured above are not fully indicative of what they're aiming for. We'll see.

Antonius

* Rob: did you ask them why they were cooking the pies at that temperature? I thought their oven could do 750º and if I could hit 750º on my oven, I'd be thrilled. That's still not optimal but it would be a lot better than 500º or 600º.

Antonius wrote:Rob: did you ask them why they were cooking the pies at that temperature? I thought their oven could do 750º and if I could hit 750º on my oven, I'd be thrilled. That's still not optimal but it would be a lot better than 500º or 600º.

Funny you should ask that, Tony. I didn't specifically ask him why he is baking his pizza at 600 degrees but I did ask what temperature his oven is capable of hitting. He said something like "800+ degrees but the only reason to have it that high was for roasting legs of lamb or something like that...".

PIGMON wrote:
I didn't specifically ask him why he is baking his pizza at 600 degrees but I did ask what temperature his oven is capable of hitting. He said something like "800+ degrees but the only reason to have it that high was for roasting legs of lamb or something like that...".

One reason for baking at 600F is that there is a much larger window between "undercooked" and "overcooked". The pizza maker doesn't have to pay as much attention to the oven and can perform other tasks. Thirty, forty seconds either way won't have much affect on the final product. In a properly heated Neapolitan oven, a few seconds of inattention is all it takes to ruin the pie.

I'm not saying this is why this pizzeria has made the decision it has, but there is a lot of skill and attention required to bake a pie at proper temps. In Naples I have observed that loading, tending, and unloading the pies in the oven is a separate job from the one of shaping and topping the dough.

Bill/SFNM

Antonius wrote:I'd like to give them a try some time in a few weeks inshAllah for fairness' sake, and with an open mind, when they've had a chance to settle into a routine and rhythm. They just opened and maybe the pizzas pictured above are not fully indicative of what they're aiming for. We'll see.

Yeah, we'll see.

PIGMON and I visited on day two or three of operation and homeboy already acted like he was at the very top of his game.

In any event, much like Jonathan over at Spacca Napoli, this guy is really, really proud of his oven. "Look, it's so safe, so well insulated, I can stick my face right against the bottom bracket. <he then demonstrates> And, it's fully automated, too. It's so easy to use that I can train monkeys to use this thing."*

E.M.

* I do not exaggerate his claims.

Erik M. wrote:... this guy is really, really proud of his oven. "Look, it's so safe, so well insulated, I can stick my face right against the bottom bracket. <he then demonstrates> And, it's fully automated, too. It's so easy to use that I can train monkeys to use this thing."*

So, does he know which monkey decided to run it at 600ºF?



A

P.S. Pigmon: I never knew you were supposed to roast lamb at 800º+!

1 spelling corrected.

Simiane di Napoli.

Specially bred to make pizze!

Bill/SFNM wrote:One reason for baking at 600F is that there is a much larger window between "undercooked" and "overcooked". The pizza maker doesn't have to pay as much attention to the oven and can perform other tasks. Thirty, forty seconds either way won't have much affect on the final product. In a properly heated Neapolitan oven, a few seconds of inattention is all it takes to ruin the pie.

I'm not saying this is why this pizzeria has made the decision it has, but there is a lot of skill and attention required to bake a pie at proper temps. In Naples I have observed that loading, tending, and unloading the pies in the oven is a separate job from the one of shaping and topping the dough.

Bill/SFNM

Bill,
Is it ever really justifiable to entirely use a fickle flour, such as Caputo 00 at those relatively low temperatures? Can its greatness ever be realized?

do you know where you can buy Caputo 00 flour retail?

Fox & Obel has King Arthur's version of it.

I used it before Bill SFNM told everybody here about the fact that it's supposed to be used in a high-heat oven and doesn't behave right at lower temperatures. I kind of liked the delicacy of the pizza crust that resulted, but it was weirdly pale, and in any case certainly didn't develop, at 450 or 500F, in the same way that a Spacca Napoli crust does.

So I guess the other answer is, "My freezer, if you want to swing by and take a half bag off my hands." Or Bill, any thoughts for using it up?

PIGMON wrote:Is it ever really justifiable to entirely use a fickle flour, such as Caputo 00 at those relatively low temperatures? Can its greatness ever be realized?

PIGMON,
Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour has been milled/blended for making pizzas with the ingredients, techniques, and ovens of Naples. In my experience, using only Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour, water, salt, and yeast in such low temperatures will only result in a crust that is lackluster in flavor, texture, and visual appeal. You can doctor it up with tenderizing agents such as oil or browning agents such as sugars or milk, but the results will still be far from authentic and, as you say, it's greatness will be unrealized. If I were limited to such a cool oven, I would probably be using some other flour and would not be trying to go for Neapolitan style.

snark wrote:do you know where you can buy Caputo 00 flour retail?.

I buy this flour in 25kg bags. If you are looking for smaller bags, this companyrepackages the big bags into smaller ones.

Mike G wrote:Fox & Obel has King Arthur's version of it.

I used it before Bill SFNM told everybody here about the fact that it's supposed to be used in a high-heat oven and doesn't behave right at lower temperatures. I kind of liked the delicacy of the pizza crust that resulted, but it was weirdly pale, and in any case certainly didn't develop, at 450 or 500F, in the same way that a Spacca Napoli crust does.

So I guess the other answer is, "My freezer, if you want to swing by and take a half bag off my hands." Or Bill, any thoughts for using it up?

Mike,

Exactly what flour do you have from KA? One thing like I like to do with excess Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is for buttermilk pancake batter which I mix up in 5 pound batches. I doctor it up with a bunch of things including malt.

Bill/SFNM

Well, I can't speak to how accurate the claim is, but it's the one that says...



Bakes like Italian "00" flour

'00' is a basic Italian flour type. Caputo's is a special version thereof with qualities developed specifically for pizza-making. In Italian cookery, there are lots of things ones does with '00'.

There are many kinds of "00" flour. Take a look at this page from Caputo. They have a "00" for pasta and gnocchi, another one for Neapolitan pizza, another one for general pizza and focaccia, etc.

What you have may be perfectly fine for home oven pizzas.

Bill/SFNM

Well, as the picture shows, this says "perfect for pizza," so it clearly appears to be intended as an equivalent-- how closely, I can't say-- for the pizza type, rather than for the pasta/gnocchi type or anything else. (The KA site hedges the bet a little but also is primarily selling this as a pizza flour.) Its behavior when I cooked with it seemed to be much like the descriptions Bill subsequently gave of a flour that wouldn't brown enough at the lower temperatures and so on.

I like nice wristwatches but I don't know how to repair one. I'm a car buff, but can't change a sparkplug. I love pizza but don't know 00 flour from 4X. So it was with no preconceptions a friend of mine and I grabbed a pie at Sapore di Napoli tonight.

We ordered the basic salciccia. It was delightful. Thin crust, little burned spots, crispy and chewy (help me out here--semolina, right?). The sauce was the way it's done in Italy-- simple tomato, just enough to form a nice base for a sprinkling of cheese. The sausage was similarly understated, porky and tender. We started with the asparagus salad, the spears sliced and served with grape tomatoes, red onion and diced gorgonzola in a well-balanced vinaigrette.

It's good to have this place in the neighborhood, as I spend a lot of time at Theatre Building Chicago down the street. It may be a bit self-serving, but I really hope this place makes it.

I don't know if they're still using 00 flour or 007 flour, if they're cooking at 600 or 1200, but I had lunch at Sapore di Napoli and you know what? It's all right. Not great, it lacks the profundity and levels of meaning of Spacca Napoli, but pretty good, perfectly enjoyable, very much like many pizzas I've had in Europe, or for that matter Mexico, or for that matter, actually, at Follia; baked firm enough that you could fling it frisbee style and it would maintain structural integrity in flight, crispy as bread sticks, spots of nice char flavor, no sign of blond undercookedness as reported earlier. If my neighborhood didn't already have Neapolitan-style pizzas like it's got cell phone stores and realtors, I'd be psyched as heck to have this in the mix alongside a topnotch deepdish (Art of Pizza, not to be confused with Art's Pizza), a couple of all right if not stellar Chicago thin crusts, and various other choices for all my pizza moods.

As a discordant note in my otherwise pleasantly laudatory post, however, I will note that the gelato was only fair (I don't know where it comes from) and served at a temperature someone around "Slushy." I'd pass on that next time-- well, unless the kids were along-- but I'd happily eat the pizza again.