Can we define what we mean by GREAT in the request above? Great food? A great overall experience? Great for the neighborhood? Great for Evanston? Great for the Chicago area? Able to hold their own against the best in the US?

I think there are some places in Evanston that are marvelous for what they are, and they are places I really enjoy eating, and am sad I don't live walking distance to them any more. But I don't miss them so much that I go there regularly any more, because a big part of the appeal was walking home after having wine, or being able to go listen to live music on a Wednesday night.

Dave's Italian Kitchen gets almost NO LTH love, but it's a fun, friendly place accommodating all ages without being overrun with out-of-control kids or alienating the youngest set. Their wine prices are shockingly low, they have a great BYOB policy, and give you a big bowl of pasta for a reasonable price. Is it a great restaurant? I think so, but it probably isn't by anyone else's definition. When we lived 2 blocks away, we did takeout probably once a week, and ate in there at least once a month. Now? We only go when we go with our friends who live in Evanston and have a toddler. I miss it, but I'm not driving there.

Pete Miller's has live jazz most nights (all nights?) and has a great burger. So on a week night to sit at the bar, have a burger and listen to music (with or without an alcoholic drink) is one of the best values in the area. Especially since with no cover or minimum you can go, catch a set, and go home without feeling you need to stay until the bitter end. They do their steaks as well as anyone else in the area (they get them from Allen Bros, I think), and have a few bargains on their wine list (skip the Napa Cabs). But again, we haven't been there since we moved. It's GREAT to have in the neighborhood, but not worth the drive.

I live in Bucktown, and am under no illusions that we have a monopoly on great restaurants. I'm thrilled to be able to walk to Irazu, Scylla, Bouchon, Matou, Rios d'Sudamerica, etc. But I'm not at all certain that if I lived in another good food neighborhood I'd drive more than about 10 mins. to get to any of them.

One of the great things about LTH is that people's opinions are challenged. A discussion can take place, and maybe everyone learns something new. There is far more value in that kind of discourse than just throwing up a list of 40 restaurants and calling them great.

"Great palces to eat in Evanston" has been merged into this thread "Evanston - need recs". Since both of these threads were moving at the exact same time on the exact same topic, there's no need for separate discussions. Now there is one definitive argument about what to eat, or not to eat, in Evanston.

Best,
Michael
for the moderators

jesteinf wrote:One of the great things about LTH is that people's opinions are challenged.

There's a difference between expressing an opinion that is different from someone else's, and attacking/insulting someone for expressing an opinion. One of the worst things about LTH is that there is far too much of the latter.

jesteinf wrote:There is far more value in that kind of discourse than just throwing up a list of 40 restaurants and calling them great.

Again, there are different definitions of "great". But based on the discussion I've seen here (including your post), no one is interested in a serious, reasonable discussion of different opinions about food. People are more interested in picking apart posts and using different definitions of the words that are used to criticize others for their opinions, and touting restaurants that are part of the "group think" mindset here and posting nasty comments about those that aren't.

And without meaning to exempt myself from my share of any possible blame, we do seem to be piling on one poster here. Let's be enthusiastic about food, and express wildly differing opinions about it, while preserving cordiality.

An online community like LTH has numerous posters with different modes of discourse. The "idea" of rudeness differs widely between cultures. As a New Yorker, I grew up hearing people say, "This is the worst restaurant I've ever been to!" and "that it is the stupidest idea I've ever heard." Translation: This restaurant is so-so, and I disagree with you. So, I read the responses as being rather gentle, but I can see how someone might not see what I see as a gentle dissent.

This is coupled with the on-line problem that we don't know much about most posters other than by their posts, so misinterpretations may get made, because all we have to go on are the implications of the post, and not how the post relates to the person.

We would all be glad to read nsxtasy's detailed assessment of great and mediocre restaurants in Chicago and out, and then others will provide their own assessments - spicy, but lovingly prepared.

And we will all have places that we love and others do not, but that is what being part of a community is all about. For my part, I still like Arun's, but that is a topic for another thread.

nsxtasy wrote: Places like Thai Sookdee, where all the food is consistently delicious (despite Erik M's RUDE comments in another topic about dishes HE wants that are not commonly found on menus, rather than about the quality of what IS served).

I seem to have missed the thread, but I'm curious to see it. Do you have the link?

leek wrote:Can we define what we mean by GREAT in the request above? Great food? A great overall experience? Great for the neighborhood? Great for Evanston? Great for the Chicago area? Able to hold their own against the best in the US?

To me, great means outstanding...period. Great is great..and when I say great, I'm talking about the food, not necessarily the atmosphere or the cost. There are no qualifiers like "great for a place like Evanston". That's why I indicated in my original post that great won't be easy to find in Evanston, but good is certainly available. That opinion seems to be backed up by most of the other posters in this thread. I also want to appologize to the original poster because the answer to their question seems to have been lost amid all the indignation. Hopefully he/she followed the link that I posted or paid attention to some of the other thoughful posts in the thread and is out eating somewhere good right now.

I forgot about another Evanston family favorite, Al's Deli, mentioned by Pucca above. They do have marvelous cookies and splendid soups and sandwiches, and the French ambience always makes me smile. You can't really eat too comfortably there but it's a swell place for carry-out, especially for a summer picnic.

Al's Deli really is a special place. The sandwiches they make are not exotic, but they're made from good ingredients and there's a classic vibe to the place. I always forget to go to Al's, but I'd definitely classify it as a "great" place to go at least once when you realize "I'm going to be in Evanston around lunch time; how could I capitalize on that?"

Furthermore, one of these days the guys who run it will retire, and it seems (by my guess) unlikely to survive that, so don't end up wishing you'd stopped by when that day comes to pass.

My standby when I worked in Evanston was the roast beef on a baguette. I could go for one now... mmm

Agreed. Al's is my go-to cookie place. It doesn't get enough attention, but it will be missed if someday we show up and its gone.

I have been living in evanston for 6 months, I would say that cross rhodes, kuni, chicken shack and lulu's are all excellent places, for what they are. '

on top of that, I would say that tratoria DOC on main is the best italian place I know in america - at least the most consistantly authentic italian food I have had. that may be the only only destination resteraunt in evanston.


as a previous poster stated, the proximity to chicago, clark street, argyle and other parts of the city mean that I can get world class food from a variety of different genres, so I don't eat chinese, barbque, mexican, deli or vietnamese in evanston, but there are still a lot of good options for reasonable food. in my opinion.

I would like to find a good chinese place here - I presently eat at hunan spring, too.

germuska wrote:Al's Deli really is a special place. The sandwiches they make are not exotic, but they're made from good ingredients and there's a classic vibe to the place. I always forget to go to Al's, but I'd definitely classify it as a "great" place to go at least once when you realize "I'm going to be in Evanston around lunch time; how could I capitalize on that?"

Al's Deli is an excellent example of what you can argue about when it comes to the word "great". It's certainly a "hole in the wall" - those who have been there know that it's little more than a sandwich counter, I'm guessing with maybe 12-15 feet of narrow storefront which extends the length of the store, and about three tiny tables capable of seating 6-8 people (not per table, but for the entire deli). And it's family-run, which seems to be a big deal to some people here. But can sandwiches (or cookies) constitute "greatness"? That may be as much a matter of semantics as anything else, but I would venture to say that there's not much you can do with a sandwich beyond fresh ingredients and good bread. On the cookie matter, Al's sells three kinds of homemade cookies: lemon cookies and iced butter cookies, both of which are kept refrigerated, and chocolate chip cookies, which are not, but instead kept in the front window. All are... I hesitate to use the word, but here goes... great, i.e. outstanding and unusually good. The chocolate chip cookies are exactly like the best homemade cookies made using the recipe on the Nestle's chip bag. And if you get there at 11 a.m. when they open, you can get them hot out of the oven. If you consider excellent sandwiches and excellent cookies enough to constitute "greatness", then you would call Al's great; otherwise, you probably wouldn't. In any case, I wouldn't drive an hour to go to Al's Deli, but it's a special place nonetheless for those of us who live close by. Thank you, Pucca, for mentioning it (but I disagree with your mention of Noyes Cafe; I ate there for dinner some months ago and it was horrible).

I've gone back and edited the post with the list of restaurants, to make it clearer regarding what might and might not be meant by "great" (and I deleted Dave's). So now everyone can go back and re-read it and find new ways to pick apart the language in it.

At this point, I will go and give some thought about whether to continue to participate in such discussions. I've found some interesting and useful information on this forum, and some people who seem to be seriously interested in food, but I've also found an incredible degree of narrow-mindedness (people who only attack the opinions of others and constantly try to hawk their own favored spots) as well as rudeness (and you can debate what that means, but I know it when I see it). See ya.

There's plenty of 'good' Chinese in Evanston, although in reverence of what this forum is named after, unbalanced comparisions are bound to be made.

Joy Yee's, LuLu's, and Koi serve excellent Chinese, and they deliver. I have lesser opinions about Pheonix Inn and Pine Yard, but you'll find opinions in this forum that praise them.

I find it thankful that we have these choices, and we're not stuck with the steamtable or chain Chinese found in other suburbs.

As for 'great', there's 'better than good' to be found in every restaurant category found in my town. But I do have to admit, the last great (a very high qualifier in my book) meal I had from start to finish in Evanston was at Trio when Tramonto was in the Kitchen.

Joy Yee's, LuLu's, and Koi serve excellent Chinese, and they deliver. I have lesser opinions about Pheonix Inn and Pine Yard, but you'll find opinions in this forum that praise them.

Lulu's? Eugh! What a hellhole! There is far better Chinese food to be found in Wilmette, for God's sake.

Also, going back to The List, and no specific offense meant to nsxtasy, there is no good thin crust pizza in Evanston - and I mean regular Chicago thin crust, not Trattoria DOC, which is pretty good. Lupita's is mediocre at best, and has the worst margaritas in Christendom, not just Chicagoland. Thai Sookdee isn't as good as Ruby of Siam, and given that North Center/Lincoln Square is, what, 15 minutes away, why even go to either? And how the billy hell can one opine about Quince, based solely on the way the menu looks?!

Sorry. This thread made me cranky. And BTW, our pizza tonight at Candelite was really good, thank heavens - and the garlic fries were 1) superlative, and x-tra garlic-y, and 2) half-price! Good eats on a cold,rainy night. Life is good.

Repeating my admiration for Puck's after a very nice meal there last night after a movie. If you're willing to redefine "great" as "very good," there's no doubt the place qualifies. I had an ahi tuna that was a little plain but very rare and very fresh-tasting--the flavor of the tuna itself was perfect--and a really delicious butternut squash soup before that. If you want to cross it off your list because it's not a locally-owned cute indigenous little ethnic mom-and-pop storefront place, that's your privilege, but if you just want to talk about quality and value-for-money (no entree at Puck's is unreasonably priced--my ahi tuna was around $19), there's no reason to ignore Puck's. Service was nice, too.

nsxtasy wrote:Thank you, Pucca, for mentioning it (but I disagree with your mention of Noyes Cafe; I ate there for dinner some months ago and it was horrible).

Sorry to hear about your bad dinner there. Truthfully, I haven't been there in at least a year. It's one of those places that comes to mind that isn't within the downtown area. I just have fond memories of their sandwiches from my college days. I've never actually ordered off the entree list. I must say though that the service had slipped during my last visits, so it wouldn't surprise me if the food has slipped as well.

sundevilpeg wrote:

Joy Yee's, LuLu's, and Koi serve excellent Chinese, and they deliver. I have lesser opinions about Phoenix Inn and Pine Yard, but you'll find opinions in this forum that praise them.

Lulu's? Eugh! What a hellhole! There is far better Chinese food to be found in Wilmette, for God's sake.

I couldn't agree more - Lulu's is definitely overrated!

sundevilpeg wrote:Lupita's is mediocre at best, and has the worst margaritas in Christendom, not just Chicagoland. Thai Sookdee isn't as good as Ruby of Siam, and given that North Center/Lincoln Square is, what, 15 minutes away, why even go to either? And how the billy hell can one opine about Quince, based solely on the way the menu looks?! [/i]

Thanks for proving my point, that many people post here primarily because they enjoy attacking what others say, and look for opportunities to do so, instead of enjoying a serious discussion about food.

BTW, I used to go to Ruby of Siam occasionally (before Thai Sookdee improved a few years ago) and I've been to at least half a dozen of the Thai places in the Lincoln Square area, and Thai Sookdee is now as good as, or better than, any of them. And Lupita's is still great in my opinion - but anyone who goes there and orders off the regular menu, rather than the weekly lunch and dinner specials, would probably not notice just how creative the food there can be.

I think the food at Lulu's is generally okay to pretty good, but not unusually so (not as good as Koi, for example). Where Lulu's shines is that Munch a Bunch deal, where you can have as much as you want of almost anything for a low price ($14.95, I think). And unlike all-you-can-eat buffets, they are all cooked to order. If you like to try a lot of things on the menu without paying a high price to do so, it's a great opportunity.

All, of course, in my opinion.

Avoiding the good/great discussion, a coupla quick notes:

Cozy hasn't been mentioned yet for Thai - it's not great by any means, but it's cheap Thai, BYOB, and a fun atmosphere (you can see the life-size Elvis through the window - reopened in the past few months after a fire). Another cheap, adequate Thai place with a pleasant outdoor rooftop plaza is Siam Too (across the street from the LTH-celebrated Wiener and Still Champion).

Arigato (close to movie theaters), Sashimi Sashimi and Sea Ranch all have pretty good sushi and no atmosphere.

I don't think this thread has made a mention of the Korean/Chinese at Mandarin House - next to the bakery/breakfast/lunch place - Kim's Kitchen. The Evanston lunch group has visited both.

Another good Evanston lunch was at Jamaica Gates, for all-brown food. I also like the Jerk Chicken from Claire's Korner (mostly takeout).

Underrated Italian is at Trullo, close to Dyche Stadium (after all, when it was first named, Northwestern's Board of Directors promised it would retain that name "in perpetuity").

And, get to Chef's Station soon, before it's (at least temporarily) slammed after its upcoming appearance on Check Please.

Cozy Noodles & Rice
1018 Davis St., Evanston

Siam Pasta Too
809 Dempster St., Evanston

Sushi Arigato
822 Clark St., Evanston

Sashimi Sashimi
640 Church, Evanston

Sea Ranch Fresh Fish and Sushi
518 Dempster St., Evanston

Mandarin House
819 Noyes St., Evanston

Kim's Kitchen
815 Noyes St, Evanston

Claire's Korner
1827 Emerson, Evanston

Trullo
1700 Central, Evanston

Chef's Station
915 Davis St., Evanston

With the highly arguable exception of Chef's Station, none of these are destination places, but each has its own charms and reasons to visit for anyone in the vicinity.

In our discussion of Evanston restaurants, no one has mentioned Cajun Charlie's on the other side of Green Bay.

I find myself very partial to the po'boys, gumbo, fried chicken, Fanny's spaghetti - both are characterized by a wise use of NO spice (we have had a nice thread on CC if you want to check it out). I won't use the "G" word, but they do a very reputable job with Cajun (or perhaps Creole) cuisine. It is one of the most worthy restaurants in Evanston.

Cajun Charlie's

Cajun Charlie’s
1601 Simpson St. (2 blocks west of Green Bay Road; turn west at the Walgreens)
Evanston

As for Al's, let us not forget their frosted chocolate fudge cookies.

And poor Dave's, now excommunicated from the "G" list, an excision that I must take some responsibility for. My comment not meant to suggest that Dave's was "bad," quite the contrary. I have eaten there with students, and surely will again, and we have had a happy meal with pasta and pizza that - if not, Mario (Batali) land - is reputable and well-cooked. A college joint of the kind that all universities need. So, don't take it to heart, Dave. Just do what you're doing. And if we want "great," there is Spiaggia or Sabatino's.

My advice is to avoid saying that X is good or Y is bad, but to suggest why and what dishes are blessed or cursed. For example, there is a lot of (deserved) respect on the board for Hecky's fried chicken, and much less so for Hecky's ribs. If a poster only had H's ribs and didn't specify, s/he might say it was mediocre, and if only chicken, might say it was wonderful.

Apart from the fact that Cajun Charlie's managed to wreck a lot of LTH goodwill in one ill-starred night, isn't it (not entirely coincidentally) closed?

GAF wrote:In our discussion of Evanston restaurants, no one has mentioned Cajun Charlie's on the other side of Green Bay.

Cajun Charlie's is (thankfully) closed.

Mike G wrote:Apart from the fact that Cajun Charlie's managed to wreck a lot of LTH goodwill in one ill-starred night, isn't it (not entirely coincidentally) closed?

We knew Charlie was having financial problems when we scheduled the dinner there - he said he viewed it as a chance to get a fresh start. My guess is the financial trouble, coupled with his propensity to over-promise, were at least partly to blame for that evening and the restaurant's failure shortly thereafter.

It's too bad ... my impression is that he's a good chef and a lousy businessman.

Oops. I musta missed that thread while enjoying New York. I did google Cajun Charlie, and the map and address came up. I hadn't been over there since I returned in September.

I was thinking of mentioning how quiet and unrushed CC was at lunch. Sigh.

Sorry, Tom, didn't mean to bring that up again, this had been such a peaceful thread until now...

I think there may be a new restaurant opening up in the Cajun Charlie's (Fanny's) space. I believe I read that somewhere and passed by there recently and it looked that way, but I could be remembering wrong.

Mike G wrote:Sorry, Tom, didn't mean to bring that up again, this had been such a peaceful thread until now...

Oh, the pain .... the pain ... stop the pain ...

Also, going back to The List, and no specific offense meant to nsxtasy, there is no good thin crust pizza in Evanston - and I mean regular Chicago thin crust, not Trattoria DOC, which is pretty good.

Sorry, but I think Gigio's deserves some LTH love. Evanston's oldest pizzeria -- so they must be doing something right -- and a very good choice for foldable New York style thin crust pies. Not cracker-crisp like Candlelite, if that's what you're in the mood for (as we sometimes are), but tasty in its own right.

Gigio's Pizzeria
1001 Davis
Evanston, IL 60201
847 328 0990 -1-2

>>Brent

The Noodles Panang at Cozy Noodles are certainly a bastardization, but that is one delicious bastard. A very good, cheap lunch.

For me, Cozy is pretty much a one-dish place, but I've often wondered if they could be induced to cook up a respectable version of boat noodles, for example. The staff sure seems to eat some nice stuff.

Well, as long as we're talking old, palatable Chinese since 1924:

Phoenix Inn
608 Davis St.
Evanston