School's Out: Chain Store Butcher Shops

School's Out: Chain Store Butcher Shops

Sometimes, the depth of my ignorance amazes me.

Last week, with most members of my family suffering from sore throats, I thought to make some soup. I figured I’d stop by Dominick’s and just get some bones from the butcher section. What naiveté! I asked the woman in the white apron for bones and she looked at me (with a mixture of sadness and contempt) and said that, of course, there is no butcher shop in Dominick’s and so no bones. Meat is “now” butchered at some central slaughter house, which makes perfect sense in that it solves a lot of health, labor and operational issues in the store. The white gowns, I must assume, are now strictly ceremonial.

There are still butcher shops in many Mexican markets, and the stench of the abattoir at those stores has been noted – I don’t dislike it, though the smell of freshly butchered meat and the sight of a blood-splattered apron will not likely be encountered any more at the ubiquitous chain store “butcher” shops. I simply hadn’t noticed their absence until recently.

Now, I know.

Hammond

The main reason that meat is no longer cut in-house at most Dominicks is so Safeway has to hire fewer union Meatcutters.

d4v3 wrote:You missed the main reason that meat is no longer cut in-house at most Dominicks. Safeway now has to hire fewer union Meatcutters.

Right, yes, that's what I was suggesting with "labor" issues. Even without the "hassle" of dealing with unions, though, the chains now can simply hire fewer skilled workers, period -- though it was interesting to me that it seems like the same people are working at Dominick's, but now instead of cutting the meat, they simply arrange it on the shelves. That must be depressing, for someone trained to be a butcher to become essentially a stock clerk. Another instance where professional pride falls in front of advancing industrial efficiency, something that I'm sure many chefs suffer as automation takes over the skilled tasks they once performed.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:Right, yes, that's what I was suggesting with "labor" issues.

yeah, I looked back and realized that was what you were referring to, and edited my post. I think the guys that put out the packaged meat still have to be members of the Almagamated Meatcutters, but they only need one butcher on staff. You are right, it must be frustrating for the butchers, but think what they save on cleaning bills.

d4v3 wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Right, yes, that's what I was suggesting with "labor" issues.

yeah, I looked back and realized that was what you were referring to, and edited my post. I think the guys that put out the packaged meat still have to be members of the Almagamated Meatcutters, but they only need one butcher on staff. You are right, it must be frustrating for the butchers, but think what they save on cleaning bills.

Cleaning bills and also the equipment to do the work, the sharpened knives and saws, the hygiene issues, the inspections...from an economic/operations perspective, it's tough to argue with the logic of outsourcing butchery.

I hate the creeping genericization (is that a word?) of the local chain stores. As a kid, I remember my mom used to always have meat special cut by the Dominick's butcher. The stores also had special products that catered to whatever local community they were located in. That was before all purchasing was done by some central office in California. Now, I can't tell the difference between my local Dominick's and the Safeway near my Mom's house in southern Arizona. Dominick's used to even have a special kosher store just for the west Rogers Park neighborhood. I am sure it lost money, but Dominick's owners thought it was important to serve that community. When the chain was sold, it was the first store to close.

At least the local produce and international markets are filling the void. It has probably been a year since I last bought meat at a Dominick's (I would avoid the place altogether if I could).

Not to mention that they too, like Jewel, "stealthily" replaced Choice Grade beef with Select Grade about three years ago.

This change was reflected on the packaging with the usual, consumer-friendly, easy to discern 3-point typeface...

Yeah, I was about to say, I sure miss having a butcher to cut my Select beef...

Hell, ten years ago I tried to get Jewel to give me a package of hamburger in something other than 1-lb. increments (I wanted about 1-1/3 lbs.) Couldn't be done. (I also asked once at Dominick's for 6/10ths of a pound of ham, and the girl standing next to the digital scale stared at me and said "How am I supposed to figure that?")

Support your local REAL butcher!

Mike G wrote:Support your local REAL butcher!

Amen...please note: my trip to Dominick's was exclusively for the purposes of getting bones. Guess who the inspiration was for that...

Believe me, I am the last person who will be defending either Dominick's or Jewel. That said, I do stop in for the occasional loss leader sale prices on certain items, meat in particular. A few months back Dominick's had a very good price on beef roast (can't remember what cut specifically), so I thought I might pick up a couple.

The very friendly, very helpful "butcher" suggested that this particular cut could be ground up and used for hamburger, meatloaf, pasta sauce, chile, etc. Since the price was actually cheaper than ground beef, I thought, what the heck, let's go for it. The meat man took the whole roast, unwrapped it and ran it through the grinder, repackaged it and replaced the original price sticker. The whole thing worked out great, giving us some of the best burgers we'd ever made.

I was surprised as all get out that this guy would be that accomodating, even suggesting the idea in the first place. My thought is that some of these guys actually are real butchers and get so bored they'll do anything to make the day go by a little quicker.

Buddy

Not to come to Jewel's defense: ever since they revamped the cesspool of my local's seafood/meat counter a couple years back and got rid of some of the surliest employees I've ever encountered, I've had success having meat handcut...either while I put in an order and pick it up when I'm through shopping, or I can call it in for later. I realize they're just portioning out primal cuts in the basement, but that still is a far cry from what-you-see-is-what-you-get pre-packages of often poorly-cut meat. And, I have seen the men in the white aprons stained with pink and red juice...certainly, it's probably just from leaking packages...always appetizing when I'm plowing through foam trays searching for the one piece that hasn't been...um..."butchered." As an aside: I noticed several varieties of chitlins in buckets around the holidays.

Much as I gripe about the high prices up here in Canadia (as W calls it), I've got to say: we've got butchers.

Went to my IGA the other day to hit the $5.99 special on boneless lamb shoulder. (At that price, who wouldn't? esp. since it was Quebec lamb... : ) There wasn't any on display, so I asked the butcher. He said he'd make me one while I did my other shopping. 'How big are they?' I asked. '2 kilos' he said. So I said "Je voudrais deux!" He smiled and nodded. 15 mins later I had two beautifully trussed boneless lamb shoulders.

I can think of maybe two butcher shoppes in the entire KC area where I could get that done. Two!

I'm with you folks: I just hate what has happend to the US grocery store...

Geo

Several points:

1) Geo, I used to buy ALL my lamb in Windsor, ON for years. It was about HALF the price of Ohio or Michigan lamb and the quality was better.

2) NO chain store butchers from the carcass. They buy all boxed PRIMAL cuts (chuck, loin, etc.) and MAY cut that. Some, like Meijer, are moving to the cut and wrapped at the meat plant whic I detest as the meat is brined (which makes it high sodium).

3) One of the reasons I like Detroit (I was there this week for the auto show) is the large number of butchers around Eastern Market that are still vertically integrated (that is, kill the animal and pack it).

4) I am not too upset about #2 as most of the chain store "butchers" are unable to identify some of the cuts they sell. I have seen so much misidentification over the years and most of them are in favor of the stores. I mean, how difficult is it to differentiate BOTTOM ROUND and FLANK STEAKS?

5) Geo - even IGA and Loblaws do a very good job throughout Canada.

About the only thing the Casey, IL IGA does well is fabricating meat. They put our superstores to shame in that department. Everything else they offer is a blackmark on farm country imo. No decent veg. No fresh herbs. Want anything under the sun prepackaged/mixed? They sing the Hydrox songbook. But, the meat...the meat is superb(and choice).

jlawrence--

Good points! And now that I think about it, lamb IS usually cheaper up our way than Down South. Maybe bcz so little is sold/consumed by the average Yank... (3 lb/yr per capita in 1970; 1 lb/yr p.c. in 2000)

But the pork is definitely more expensive in Canada.

Yes, I'm well-satisfied with both IGA and Loblaws. At my local Loblaw's recently I went on the first morning of a fresh halibut sale. It was just being unpacked--and I mean, the *whole* fish was there, and halibut isn't your salmon-sized fishie. So the guy asked me how many steaks I wanted, and cut them fresh while I shopped. I just love doing the groceries in Montreal!

Geo

Christopher Gordon wrote:About the only thing the Casey, IL IGA does well is fabricating meat. They put our superstores to shame in that department. Everything else they offer is a blackmark on farm country imo. No decent veg. No fresh herbs. Want anything under the sun prepackaged/mixed? They sing the Hydrox songbook. But, the meat...the meat is superb(and choice).

IGA in Canada - like many things in Canada - generally tends to be more upscale that in the United States. Quality bakery and generally a lot of fresh foods.

In fact, even some of the remote markets in Eastern and Central Ontario have a surprisingly good selection of produce. The IGA in Eganville, ON had a variety of produce equivalent to a Jewel store/

Geo wrote:But the pork is definitely more expensive in Canada.

Yes, I'm well-satisfied with both IGA and Loblaws. At my local Loblaw's recently I went on the first morning of a fresh halibut sale. It was just being unpacked--and I mean, the *whole* fish was there, and halibut isn't your salmon-sized fishie. So the guy asked me how many steaks I wanted, and cut them fresh while I shopped. I just love doing the groceries in Montreal!

Geo

I had planned to get up at 6 am this morning, head to Detroit's Eastern Market and then head south into Windsor to the Public Market.

However, when I woke up, there was 1/2" of ice on my windshield in Livonia, MI, and with the weather in the Midwest deteriorating, I decided to head to the airport instead. (Would you believe that Southwest's last Saturday flight to Chicago is 3:30 pm? Egads.)

Yeah , the ice started here in KC (I'm back here for a few days on biz) at 16h on Friday, and it's *still* going on. I've been smoking ribs and brats all day long, with the ice particles melting on my fat bald head as I run in and out to the Black Diamond.

So I'd say you can expect another day--at least--of this stuff in your region.
Welcome back to Winter!

And I most certainly agree about the produce at IGA in Montreal: jeez, the ORGANIC section has nearly as much fresh stuff as the typical KC supermarket.

Stay safe in all that ice!

Geo

I think the guys that put out the packaged meat still have to be members of the Almagamated Meatcutters, but they only need one butcher on staff.

2005 holiday season found me on my way to the south burbs to a party when the hostess called and asked if I could pick up some sirloin for the fondue she was serving. I stopped at the Lakeview (Ashland) Jewel, as it was on my way to the expressway. No sirloin, nada, none. I asked the white-coated person at the meat counter. She did not know what that cut of meat was. Period - had never heard of it. Went to get someone else. Oh, he said, they quit carrying that cut. Huh????

I zig-zagged over to Dominicks on Clybourn. At least they had it! But so many of those "reduced price, buy today" stickers made me a little worried. . . fortunately, it turned out fine.

HI,

I remember in the early 1970's you had to buy your meat before 6 PM, I believe. The butcher packed the meat before leaving with none available to buy until a butcher was back on duty the next day. I don't know if this was law and/or union contract. I do recall it was a big deal when meat was available for sale after 6 PM.

Regards,

Geo wrote:And I most certainly agree about the produce at IGA in Montreal: jeez, the ORGANIC section has nearly as much fresh stuff as the typical KC supermarket.

I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Jewel and Dominick's in Chicago, but the chain stores here in KC are at least a 3-5x improvement. The Chicago chains are astonishingly poor. I plan to post more on this, and separately, as time permits, but while I dearly miss places like Tony's and Cermak Produce (as well as the many much smaller and specific shops), I'm glad Hen House and Price Chopper have acquitted themselves as well as they have.

Hi Aaron--

The Price Chopper over near you, the Roeland Park 'latino' store, is certainly the best I've seen in the city. It's a great store! But come visit us in Montreal, it's an excellent place for produce, too.

Geo

Geo wrote:The Price Chopper over near you, the Roeland Park 'latino' store, is certainly the best I've seen in the city. It's a great store! But come visit us in Montreal, it's an excellent place for produce, too.

Yeah, that store rocks. I love in the summer especially, when the produce section is open air, tons of local stuff, marked by what farm it's from. Haven't been to many others. The Fairway shops Hen House has a very good butcher, it seems to me, from a couple conversations anyway, even though he couldn't provide, or even recommend, a place to get pork fat for rendering into lard. He was willing to provide a healthy dose of suet, though.

And I've got Hy-Vee and Wild Oats closer than both of these, though I don't particularly care for either. I have to go there, however, to get the Brown Cow maple yogurt. Mmmmmm. The worst part is having to go to three stores to do all of your shopping.

Related to the topic of getting bones and stuff for making stock, Bill Dugan of Fishguy/Wellfleet sells crustacean bones (shrimp, etc.) for the specific purpose of cooking up a fish stock. I would dearly love to have a regular local (meaning Oak Park and environs) source for fish heads and bones...

David Hammond wrote:Related to the topic of getting bones and stuff for making stock, Bill Dugan of Fishguy/Wellfleet sells crustacean bones (shrimp, etc.) for the specific purpose of cooking up a fish stock. I would dearly love to have a regular local (meaning Oak Park and environs) source for fish heads and bones...

Have you tried asking the fishmonger opposite Caputo's on Harlem Ave.? I got some nice fish (whole, which wasquickly processed) from them and used the head for a curry and they've had live sea urchin too. They should be able to help you.
Oh, maybe Caputos will help too. I've gotten fish from there as well on occasion. Caputo's butcher section is great too - the old guy there ran some panchetta and beef (and veal? can't remember exactly, was for some recipe long ago) through the grinder when I asked nice.

sazerac wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Related to the topic of getting bones and stuff for making stock, Bill Dugan of Fishguy/Wellfleet sells crustacean bones (shrimp, etc.) for the specific purpose of cooking up a fish stock. I would dearly love to have a regular local (meaning Oak Park and environs) source for fish heads and bones...

Have you tried asking the fishmonger opposite Caputo's on Harlem Ave.? I got some nice fish (whole, which wasquickly processed) from them and used the head for a curry and they've had live sea urchin too. They should be able to help you.
Oh, maybe Caputos will help too. I've gotten fish from there as well on occasion. Caputo's butcher section is great too - the old guy there ran some panchetta and beef (and veal? can't remember exactly, was for some recipe long ago) through the grinder when I asked nice.

Thanks sazerac and yes, I have gotten bones from the guy across from Caputo's. Maybe 12-15 years ago, I bought a red snapper from one of the guys there, and he said, "You want the bones?" And I said (remember, this is pre-Chowhound/LTH), "What for?" He looked at me for a moment and said, "Soup." I took the bones and made a great soup.

What I'm not sure about is whether these guys save many bones -- I know I can get bones from fish I buy, but I was kind of hoping for lots o' bones to make a bigger broth. Good suggestion, though.

Hammond

A couple of our places (like the Price Chopper Aaron and I referred to earlier) sell whole carp and buffalo quite cheap. I just chop up the whole thing and make a *really* rich broth.

Geo

You know, I need to retract somewhat my praise of the Hen House butcher. They still have a lot of good meat there, but inspired by Geo and the irrational fear of winter I'm seeing here, I went to get a slab of spares today.

They don't sell racks of spares!

They had some cryovac-ed baby backs, but all the spares were cut into individual ribs. The guy behind the counter said they always do that...the slabs come in on Wednesday, and I can call and ask them to keep them whole, but they typically put them out rib by rib. Weird.

Mike G wrote:(I also asked once at Dominick's for 6/10ths of a pound of ham, and the girl standing next to the digital scale stared at me and said "How am I supposed to figure that?")

Support your local REAL butcher!

Why did you want six-tenths of a pound?

Actually this little anecdote speaks in favor of Dominick's - employing the mentally challenged.

Geo wrote:Hi Aaron--

The Price Chopper over near you, the Roeland Park 'latino' store, is certainly the best I've seen in the city. It's a great store! But come visit us in Montreal, it's an excellent place for produce, too.

Geo

Price Chopper, based near my hometown in upstate NY, is the store that gave us Rachael Ray. She used to do 30 Min Meal demos there and was a spokeperson. In fairness, she did start 30Min meals at a gourmet store, Cowan and Lobel, but PC was definitely a part of her rise.

So Price Chopper is evil