Should picture taking be banned in restaurants?

Frank Bruni of the New York Times doesn't say so, but he raises the question:
http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=173#more-173

Jonah

HI,

There is the compromise position of no flash photography. There are now cameras that do a much better job at lower light levels than before. I am waiting for my current camera to break just a little more (cannot download directly or review images and now there is tape closing the magnetic media door) before retiring this veteran of over 24000 photos.

Of course if you go at lunch, position yourself by a window, then quietly do your thing. Nobody has reason to complain.

Regards,

I suspect more restaurateurs in New York have had cause to wish that reviewers from the NY Times were banned.

Hell No

This is a subject about which I (obviously) have very mixed emotions. I do it, but I HATE to do it.

When we hit the French Laundry, I had the camera in my pocket or palmed at all times, and I doubt anybody had any idea. At the table next to us, however, with every course one woman at the table would pull out her massive five-pounder and walk around the table photographing every single dish with flash and neon green laser autofocus. It was horrible.

I intentionally picked a camera that was small enough to palm and with excellent low light capabilities so I wouldn't have to flash, and I immediately turned off everything that might draw attention... I turned off the flash, the shutter sound, the autofocus lamps, and I dropped the LCD to the lowest possible brightness. Obviously, if somebody looks at you they're going to see what you're doing. But if, in the course of simply enjoying their dinner, the next table's attention is drawn to your photo taking, my opinion is that you shouldn't be taking them. I understand the feeling that, well, you're paying for a service and you should be able to enjoy that service by taking photos. But I think people owe it to their fellow diners not to be distracting, and I think that absolutely includes flash photography. I've also heard the argument that it's no worse than X other distracting things that diners frequently do. True, but I don't think diners should be doing those other things either

Anyway, as somebody who does it a LOT, no, it absolutely should not be banned. But I think those choosing to do so should be very, very, VERY discreet about it... and while I realize it might be an unpopular opinion with some folks here, I think that absolutely includes flash.

I have seen several places - Erik Schaat's Bakery in Bishop, that posts the cameras are not allowed on premises.

Dmnkly wrote:Anyway, as somebody who does it a LOT, no, it absolutely should not be banned. But I think those choosing to do so should be very, very, VERY discreet about it... and while I realize it might be an unpopular opinion with some folks here, I think that absolutely includes flash.

Dom,

I absolutely agree. Discretion is, at most times, the rule...especially in a place that has a certain "decorum" about it.

In finer establishments, I make it a point to ask the waiter to ask the chef or owner if it is OK to take photos (never with a flash that would irritate other diners). The courtesy is appreciated and often the chef will come out from the kitchen to our table to talk with us - maybe to find out if we are doing a review for magazine. It has been a great way to meet the chef and learn more about the food and how it is prepared.

I only recall once when permission was denied. The owner wanted to know how he could be sure I wasn't collecting information for a competitor. The food sucked anyway, so he need not have been worried.

Bill/SFNM

I only recall once when permission was denied. The owner wanted to know how he could be sure I wasn't collecting information for a competitor. The food sucked anyway, so he need not have been worried.

The two times I have been accused of perhaps having competitive designs, they each had nothing I valued enough to worry about. Ironically the first time it occurred I was without camera, I was just ordering one-of what interested me. To be perfectly clear, LTH was the only place those images were destined.

I have the feeling those who do complain have done it for competitive reasons themselves. Just a hunch, nothing I could ever verify.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:I have the feeling those who do complain have done it for competitive reasons themselves. Just a hunch, nothing I could ever verify.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I was a competitor. What advantage could I possibly get from a photograph of the plated food?

Bill/SFNM

Bill/SFNM wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:I have the feeling those who do complain have done it for competitive reasons themselves. Just a hunch, nothing I could ever verify.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I was a competitor. What advantage could I possibly get from a photograph of the plated food?

Bill/SFNM

Presentation is a specialized craft. I recall when I was watching Hot Doug's demonstration at Bloomingdales, Doug agreed I could take photos. While he agreed, the representative from Bloomingdales did not. When I told her I had Doug's permission, she reminded me, "Our displays are copyrighted. If I find you are photographing our displays and not the Chef, then I will ask you to stop and leave." She watched me like a hawk for maybe 30 minutes, then realized I really was interested in only the food element. Later she was my best friend asking me to alert my friends to future Chef presentations.

I have also used photos to jog my memory as well as magnify something to understand how they did it or identify flecks of herbs in a composition.

I also make small film clips of techniques, which I swear I understand when I am present, then forget when I need to retrieve the information later. My favorite was watching Deta make burek. While I was patiently watching, I missed the quick cut with a knife that turned the rolled dough into a coil. It wasn't until I got home and watched it again, that I finally caught on to this step. Another was SushiGaijin's three-touch method for forming sushi. I knew I would never remember that unless I practiced it a number of times before leaving his class. Taking a film clip was a lot less wearing on everyone.

BTW - I borrowed the idea from you to post these clips on youtube.com, thank you!

Regards,

Ironically the first time it occurred I was without camera, I was just ordering one-of what interested me.

They harassed you for what you ordered?

That's new.

HI,

I was doing research on Puerto Rican cuisine for the Slow Food Guide. I walked into a bakery to try Puerto Rican pastries. There were several people in line, which allowed me time to study their offerings. I order one-of everything I thought was uniquely Puerto Rican. After a minute, the owner asked me, "Where are you taking the pastries? Who was I working for? Restaurant? Newspaper? Why do you only want one of everything? These are my unique recipes, you cannot copy them, they are mine!" She withheld the pastries until I explained my intentions: "There are for my personal consumption. I don't need to eat more than one of each. I also plan to share them with my niece," who was standing next to me looking shocked.

I then looked around to find political materials sharing the counter with her wares. I realized I had stepped into the den of the local activist who knew how to assert herself. She finally relented, I paid my $5 and change for her pastries. Walking out the door, I saw a sign across the street, "Go home yuppies."

I never did write a review on this place because I could not responsibly guide people into such a hostile environment. I did find them in the book under another category. Later I saw the Tribune did a cheap eats review with photograghs! I wonder if the Trib had to jump hurdles to accomplish that.

Regards,