Hearing from insiders about a new restaurant...fine with me. Press releases in threads? I think we can do better than that.

Note also that if you google "aigre doux chicago", this thread is the fourth hit. This is, no doubt, driving a lot of new people interested in a heavily-promoted restaurant to LTH.

G Wiv wrote:LTH,

Don't know about anyone else, but a spate of one or two off new posters chattering about how wonderful, fantastic a not yet opened restaurant is tends to have the opposite intended effect on ol' irascible me.

I've got to agree with you. These types of posts will probably keep me away from this restaurant until I hear some positive reports from credible sources. There are a few menu items that look interesting, but there is nothing all that special to bring me in based on pre-opening hype from people that work there and have suddenly surfaced here without contributing anything else to the community. I think LTH, being what it is, is probably less susceptible to hype than other places like, for example, Chowhound.

Mike G wrote:In any case, I'm sure other opinions will follow soon enough, beginning with KL5's above.

You know, my meal (and a whole lot of wine) was free. I don't feel like I can be completely objective, and so I wasn't planning on commenting--at least until someone else who paid for their meal spoke up. I also don't think it's fair to talk about things like service, kitchen flow, etc. after a pre-opening event. The whole point of those nights is to try and work bugs out on freeloading guinea pigs. I had a great meal and a fun night and feel lucky to have had the opportunity. I guess I'll leave it at that.

I look forward to hearing reports now that Aigre Doux is open.

Kristen

whether it's shilling or not, and i believe it is, they got what they set out for, which was a buzz among a selected demographic that would do any p.r. firm proud.

By definition it was not shilling. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it dishonest.

Shill
n. One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

I personally like hearing what employees have to say, even if it is self-promotion. I also enjoy the press releases since I live in central IL and don't tend to know about them otherwise.

I'm a big girl - I can wade through all the opinions, objective or not, and make a decision for myself. Thanks mods for letting them post.

sundevilpeg wrote:

As long as you're upfront about your affiliation, as you were, it's certainly appropriate.

I respectfully but strenuously disagree. The bulk of this thread is 100% pure shilling. PR releases? Please!

I'm taking the contrary view. Disclose your affiliation and I don't have a problem with it.

I note that when Chef GEB took over Avenues, he posted a short blurb about the changes to be made. It is nice to know that those people read the site.

What bugs me is when people are clearly promoting a place but don't disclose their affiliation.

Bellringr, I agree. On balance, I prefer more information to less--regardless of the packaging--as long as posters are up front with their particular affiliations.

As savvy consumers of information, I think most of us are able (and maybe even welcome the opportunity?) to distill what we need from the various posts in this forum.

EDIT: But, as DML notes, the shills bug me too.

in the strictest interpretation, yes, but in everyday life, things take on a broader meaning. i should have consulted my dictionary.

a press release says it's a press release.

believe me when i say i've consciously not promoted or posted things that may be of general interest to this forum so as not to appear self serving in that shilling type of way. if i can exercise that restraint, i suppose i'm just projecting on how i feel others should handle it as well.

wouldn't want to appear to be shilling now would i?

i love to hear my employees wax poetically and sing my praises, but lets call it what it is in common everyday terms. whether you disclose your relationship or not, i feel @ the very least it's shillingesque.

that's not necessarily to be taken as bad or ill motivated.

i'm thinking more as a verb than a noun.

Some of you desperatly need happy hour...

jazzfood wrote:in the strictest interpretation, yes, but in everyday life, things take on a broader meaning. i should have consulted my dictionary.

a press release says it's a press release.

believe me when i say i've consciously not promoted or posted things that may be of general interest to this forum so as not to appear self serving in that shilling type of way. if i can exercise that restraint, i suppose i'm just projecting on how i feel others should handle it as well.

wouldn't want to appear to be shilling now would i?

i love to hear my employees wax poetically and sing my praises, but lets call it what it is in common everyday terms. whether you disclose your relationship or not, i feel @ the very least it's shillingesque.

that's not necessarily to be taken as bad or ill motivated.

i'm thinking more as a verb than a noun.

I heard you the first time, jazzfood, and I sincerely appreciate what you have shared. I've been posting in food forums for more than eight years now and I've seen a lot. However some here wish to characterize what has traspired above, I am no less resolute in my conviction that LTHForum is being played.

E.M.

Erik M. wrote:I am no less resolute in my conviction that LTHForum is being played.

Amen to that!

You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
-Bob Dylan

stevez wrote:

Erik M. wrote:I am no less resolute in my conviction that LTHForum is being played.

Amen to that!

You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
-Bob Dylan

Yeah, traders refer to it as a "pump."

And, we're generally inclined to aquire a massive short position in "stocks" like this.



E.M.

Erik M. wrote:

stevez wrote:

Erik M. wrote:I am no less resolute in my conviction that LTHForum is being played.

Amen to that!

You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
-Bob Dylan

Yeah, traders refer to it as a "pump."

And, we're generally inclined to aquire a massive short position in "stocks" like this.



E.M.

Preach on, brother.

Erik M. wrote:I am no less resolute in my conviction that LTHForum is being played.

In the sense that it is being used by those with vested interest in Aigre Doux to generate conversation and perhaps some anticipation and "buzz" for the restaurant, I can see that.

In the sense that this is happening unbeknownst to anyone reading along, I would disagree.

I think this is a pretty interesting and unprecedented case. We've had a lot of threads where a lot of new posters are trying to pump up a new restaurant and fail to disclose their affiliation. Clearly a problem.

We've had a handful of short announcements or questions directly answered, posted with full disclosure, either in a relevant thread or on the Events board or on the Professional board. Clearly not a problem.

This is a unique situation, which I think is generating some good discussion about how to allow for people involved with restaurants to share their information and enthusiasm (I, for one, would love to hear about your projects on the board, jazzfood); but at the same time to prevent the Eating Out in Chicagoland board from having a press release included in every restaurant thread.

Does anyone else find it amusing that rather than discussing the food at the place, people are discussing the ethics and definition of shilling?

I kind of doubt that was the original intent of the posts, so it is looks overall that any attempts at shilling have been self-defeating.

For a lot of us, the thought is going to be "Isn't that the place that shilled on LTH?" That's not the best impression to make.

DML wrote:I kind of doubt that was the original intent of the posts, so it is looks overall that any attempts at shilling have been self-defeating.

Self-defeating is usually what shill posts become. I was talking to an editor at a "major metropolitan newspaper" last weekend, and she mentioned that it must be tough to suss out shills from regular posters on LTH, and my response: "Not really."

David Hammond wrote:

DML wrote:I kind of doubt that was the original intent of the posts, so it is looks overall that any attempts at shilling have been self-defeating.

Self-defeating is usually what shill posts become. I was talking to an editor at a "major metropolitan newspaper" last weekend, and she mentioned that it must be tough to suss out shills from regular posters on LTH, and my response: "Not really."

Tips for shills:

1. Post on some [to you] irrelevant issues for a while before you post on your target spot;

2. Start with broad questions to feign ignorance (not that the person here did so, but that would be effective);

3. Announce you have finally gone to the target spot, and rave. Make sure to mention the reasonable prices;

4. Make at least one negative comment ("in an otherwise outstanding meal, the foie gras was a tad overcooked, but I enjoyed the interesting wine pairing.").

If you are going to shill, at least do the above to keep us guessing.

In the alternative, do what GEB did: "I'm GEB and I wanted to let you know that I'm changing this place around."

Either way works: Absolutely blunt or intelligently hidden. The first time poster who says "I was there on opening night and loved it" is sort of boring.

David Hammond wrote:I was talking to an editor at a "major metropolitan newspaper" last weekend, and she mentioned that it must be tough to suss out shills from regular posters on LTH, and my response: "Not really."

Guys, I just had an AMAZING meal at [insert restaurant name]!!!

They have THE BEST [insert list of seven dishes, including prices]

This place won't remain Chicago's best kept secret for long. Check it out!!!!!!111111oneoneone

EDIT: Damn, DML, beat me to it.

I think this thread is crossing the line from productive discussion of either the restaurant (or even discussion of discussion of the restaurant) and into something that's really unproductive and distracting.

To re-cap:

1) Susan, the original poster, does not seem to be affiliated with the restaurant, and her requests for information and hopefully her report back are very welcome in this thread.

2) People affiliated with the restaurant are welcome to post as long as they fully disclose their affiliation.

3) Press releases and PR materials are best-suited to the Professional Board.

4) We actually do want to hear about the food and experience at Aigre Doux.

I suggest continuing discussion of shills, etc., be continued on Site Chat.

Thanks,

Aaron, for the moderators

what's stopped me, is exactly that though. it's not a flattering personality trait in my opinion. mentioning something casually in an offhand manner is one thing and i've done that. "shilling" (there's that loosely defined word again) is something i would not want to be mistaken for and is something i do not agree with. i prefer to walk the walk. maybe i'm just being hypersensitive here and i'll reconsider some of my natural censoring.

to be honest w/you, i'm kind of interested in going to the place. don't know that i'll run, but it's on my radar. i'm also well aware that their mission has succeeded in drawing attn to them by the ongoing discussion we're having. i have a personal interest or curiosity in the chefs background. i was for quite some time, and i'm trying hard not shill here, the chef and f@b @ the sunset marquis, another legendary rock and roll hotel in w. hollywood just down the st. from chateau marmont (where i had my wedding reception in the infamous belushi suite).

Interesting points, jazzfood.

I've responded over on Site Chat.

Aaron, thanks for defending my intentions. I was feeling my face flush and my palms get sweaty as I read all the posts today. Geez, people. I have nothing to do with any restaurant. I just love to eat.

I am feeling agitated about even posting my response to the restaurant now! What if I love it? Apparently, some will think I've been planted and have just been masquerading as a normal, Chicago full-time-working-mom-who-just-wants-a-kick-ass-Birthday-meal.

I hope anyone else who responds to a post on this thread focuses on what happens at Aigre Doux. I'd love to hear any other reactions to the food, the restaurant itself, etc. before my dinner Saturday night.

Happy birthday to me!

Susan,

Happy Birthday to you!

I look forward to your review.

Regards,

Susan wrote:I am feeling agitated about even posting my response to the restaurant now! What if I love it?

Susan,

Love it, hate it, lukewarm. Whatever your response simply post to the thread, no problems mate (he says in a bad Australian accent)

Happy Birthday!

Enjoy,
Gary

Susan wrote:I am feeling agitated about even posting my response to the restaurant now! What if I love it? Apparently, some will think I've been planted and have just been masquerading as a normal, Chicago full-time-working-mom-who-just-wants-a-kick-ass-Birthday-meal.

Susan,

I don't think any of the shilling discussion was directed at you. As you probably noticed, there were suddenly a bunch of posters who had never posted before who surfaced and started singing the praises of this restaurant (which hadn't even opened yet) and contributed nothing else to LTH Forum. Those are the ones that I, and I assume others, are talking about. I look forward to what you, as a non-interested party, have to say about the restaurant. I'd like to hear some details that are not just hype.

I agree with the comments above.

She INSPIRED some shilling, but didn't do it herself (unless, as per my post above, she's one of the best shills out there).

We all look forward to the review.

Was I praising when I said the service could be bad for awhile? Am I a hypocrite for thinking the PR was tacky? I'm a little sorry I created such a debate; I was honestly just trying to give some insight into what I've seen, then people started asking questions I felt I should help answer. I admit, I could have sounded a bit too excited, but I mean it when I say I've worked for some nasty people; I like nice people. I like working for nice people, I like waiting on nice people, and I like talking to nice people. I'm sorry my excitement seemed like a billboard; it is all sincere.

sorry susan if you were an innocent bystander. none of the discussion was pointing in your direction. as a matter of fact, your opinon is the one i desire to hear most and encourage you to post it.

Mum wrote:I'm sorry my excitement seemed like a billboard; it is all sincere.

Mum: don't sweat it. You just have to recall that the phenomenon of people in the restaurant industry trying to invisibly manipulate public opinion is a very old thing, older than the internet, surely, but more on point, older than LTH Forum. Many people here have been talking about food on the internet for five or ten years, and they've seen it all.

If you haven't already, you should check out the meta-thread on shilling (spun of from this one) and we should all let this thread calm down until people have something to actually say about dining at Aigre Doux.