By the Time I Get To Phoenix I'll Be Hungry

I'm going to Phoenix in a couple of weeks on business. I've been there many times and I have yet to have an outrsatanding meal (especially Mexican, which I assume must be good somewhere). Please send me your recommendations. I'll be there for two or three nights.

Pizzeria Bianco, in Heritage Square. Here's a link to a post on the other board:

Sweet Willie on PB

Spectacular pizzas in a wod-burning brick oven. It's the only must-eat in town, as far as I'm concerned.

Seth Zurer wrote:Pizzeria Bianco, in Heritage Square. Here's a link to a post on the other board:

Seth,

Jeffrey Steingarten waxed poetic about Pizza Bianco in the September '04 issue of Vogue. I quote "My conclusive finding is that Chris Bianco's pizza-at least on the day of my visit to Phoenix-is the best in the world. Yes, this includes the Naples, Italy, metropolitan area"

You just have to love a guy who is not afraid of sweeping generalization mixed with a healthy does of hyperbole.

I've never been to Pizza Bianco, but rest assured next time I'm within 100-miles of Phoenix I'm there.

Steve, make sure and bring your camera.

Enjoy,
Gary

Steingarten is crazy. As good as Bianco is, it has been scientifically proven by hordes of white-coated scienticians that the best pizza in the whole world, bar none, even in Naples Italy where pizza as we know it was invented and perfected, the paragon of pizza, the apotheosis of the form can be found at Frank Pepe's Pizzeria Napoletana on Wooster St. in New Haven CT. Anyone who claims otherwise is either on the take, has a hidden political agenda, or is impaired mentally, either as a result of over-consumption of psychedelic drugs or congenital psychiatric defects.

G Wiv wrote:Steve, make sure and bring your camera.

Enjoy,
Gary

You can count on it!

From my chow notes on another board, May 2002

"1. San Diego Bay in Guadalupe.
Thanks to prior posts, I arrived at San Diego Bay fifteen minutes south of Phoenix airport on Avenue Del Yaqui about 7:30 Sunday night for an order to go. The proprietor, a Mexican-American woman of a certain age, helped me with my order and a Negra Modelo with chips and salsa while I waited. The tomato based slightly piquant salsa was notable. When I complemented the proprietor, she told they make the salsa fresh every day. Soup of the Seven Seas and Tostada de Ceviche were what I ordered. Both beyond fabulous. The ceviche, $3.50, 'cooked' to order, contained white flesh fish, seeded uniformly cut small cucumber cubes, tomato, avocado, red onion, lime. Perfect. The sopa de siete maras was hands down the best I've ever had. The broth was pure shrimp and fish stock. The large bowl contained several little neck clams, squid, fish, fresh crab legs, whelp, and octopus. Unlike every other version of this dish I've ever been served, none of the fish was rubbery from overcooking and none had been previously frozen. Absolutely truly outstanding.

2. Rito's
Deep in an intown Phoenix neighborhood, lacking even a sign, with limited operating hours from 11:00 AM-4:00 PM. A green chile burro and although I wasn't really hungry, a side of rice because my host insisted. The green chile burro was a large flour tortilla folded to encase copious amounts of large chunks of slow-roasted pork and a roasted green chile. Very good indeed. The mexican rice was the best I ever had, and the reason was obvious--generous use of lard. In terms of bang for the buck, nothing can beat Rito's. $3.50 for the burro, $1.25 for the rice. Eating area is several picnic tables around the side. Ambience zilch.

3. San Diego Bay, again.
With one last opportunity, I really wanted to try Los Dos Molinos, but I was afraid to miss my evening conference session, so it was back to San Diego Bay. Not too hungry (this was 4:30 PM defensive eating so as to not be subjected to hotel food again) I scoured the menu while consuming most of another Negro Modelo. Boring me--I ordered exactly the same as on my inital Sunday night visit two days before. On this Tuesday afternoon everything was a notch or two better than the previous Sunday, which I attribute to a combination of kitchen weekend fatigue and fresh fish deliveries. Totally remarkable."

I returned in April 2003, and it was as good as ever. I would rate San Diego Bay a Must Not Miss !!!. Rito's, which is hard to find, is a small pearl. San Diego Bay, however, will ruin you forever for Soup of The Seven Seas.

G Wiv wrote:Jeffrey Steingarten waxed poetic about Pizza Bianco in the September '04 issue of Vogue.

My wife subscribes to Vogue--what she likes best are the ads.

Following newtonian reasoning that for every action there is a reaction, does such Vogue chow counsel imply that from now on she should look to Gourmet for fashion advice :-) ?

Well, I made it to the much vaunted Pizzaria Bianco last night for dinner. At around 8:15 on a Tuesday night, there was no wait, however we got the last table in this small place. Was this the so called "best pizza in the world"? Well, admittitdly, I'm a Chicago Pizza fan, but I can appreciate a good pie when I get one no matter what the style is. Unfortuantely, while good, this is far from the perfection that I have seen described elsewhere. More on the pizza later. The real star of the show (for me, anyway) was the salad of fresh house-made mozzerella, basil and a garden ripe tomato.



The cheese was mozzerella perfection, with just the right mouth feel and taste. It was complimented by a perfectly ripened tomato. With just a sprinkling of salt, supplied in dishes at the table so you can hand sprinkle your own, this was far and away the most enjoyable version of this dish I have had in quite some time.

As for the Pizza, they are indeed all hand made in a beautiful wood burning oven. I talked to the Chris Bianco, the owner/chef who told me that the oven chamber was custom built in Italy to his specifications, then deconstructed here and the brick facade was built around it by him personally.

Pizza Construction


Wood Burning Oven


We ordered "The Wiseguy", which was a pizza topped with sausage, 1/2" wide strips of nicely grilled onions and smoked mozzerella.The pizza itself arrived some 20 - 30 minutes later. The crust was more like a bread texture instead of the hoped for crispy crust. It had some nice blackened bits on the crust from the oven, which runs at 800 degrees in the center and around 675 at the edges, according to Bianco. I found the smoked mozzerella to be a bit overpowering. After a few bites, I decided I didn't like it at all on the pizza. It fully masked the subtle smokiness from the oven with somewhat of an artificial taste somewhat akin to adding liquid smoke to BBQ sauce.

Wiseguy Pizza


All in all, I was glad to go to Pizzaria Bianco, and might make the trip again if for nothing else but the Mozzerella and Tomato salad. I'll be stuck eating hotel food for the most part from here on out during my trip to Phoenix, so this was a nice departure.

Pizzaria Bianco
Historic Heritage Square
623 East Adams Street (enter off of 7th)
Phoenix, AZ
602.258.8300

stevez wrote:Well, I made it to the much vaunted Pizzaria Bianco last night for dinner.
<snip>
I found the smoked mozzerella to be a bit overpowering. After a few bites, I decided I didn't like it at all on the pizza. It fully masked the subtle smokiness from the oven with somewhat of an artificial taste somewhat akin to adding liquid smoke to BBQ sauce

Steve,

Argggg, and I was looking forward to trying Pizzeria Bianco, but anything that equates, well, hell, anything at all, to liquid smoke has lost me forever.

I will say the caprese looked fantastic. The cheese, in the pictures, appeared to have a creaminess I love in fresh mozzarella.

Actually, the crust on the pizza looked good, well, ok, maybe I will try the place, but stay far away from anything resembling liquid smoke.

Nice pictures.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

stevez wrote:Well, I made it to the much vaunted Pizzaria Bianco last night for dinner.
<snip>
I found the smoked mozzerella to be a bit overpowering. After a few bites, I decided I didn't like it at all on the pizza. It fully masked the subtle smokiness from the oven with somewhat of an artificial taste somewhat akin to adding liquid smoke to BBQ sauce

Steve,

Argggg, and I was looking forward to trying Pizzeria Bianco, but anything that equates, well, hell, anything at all, to liquid smoke has lost me forever.

I will say the caprese looked fantastic. The cheese, in the pictures, appeared to have a creaminess I love in fresh mozzarella.

Actually, the crust on the pizza looked good, well, ok, maybe I will try the place, but stay far away from anything resembling liquid smoke.

Nice pictures.

Enjoy,
Gary

I would like to see someone else try this place. Maybe it was an off night...or maybe I just don't like that particular style of pizza. I thought the crust would have been (and should have been) crisper, though.

I just found out that I will be going back to Phoenix (Scottsdale, actually) next Monday. I will be sure to take the opportunity to try Pizzaria Bianco once again with hopefully happier results (I'll be sure to avoid the smoked cheese that put me off so badly last time). I'll have the opportunity for two dinners, so if anyone has any other suggestions, I'm listening. I still have not found the transendental Sonoran Mexican experience that I know is out there. I may try one of Mr. Druckers suggestions if I can.

You could always ask for the pizza well done.

I second (third, fourth?) the Pizzeria Bianco opinions above. I find if I stick to simple stuff, I like the place. When I've ventured off the classical path, I've regretted it.

I've had a couple good meals at LeccaBaffi at 9119 N Hayden in Scottsdale, though not in the last year. The owner's got a bakery, Galileo, a few doors away.

Choey wrote:I second (third, fourth?) the Pizzeria Bianco opinions above. I find if I stick to simple stuff, I like the place. When I've ventured off the classical path, I've regretted it.

Of course the opinions above are all over the board, both about the place and also about what constitutes the "classical path". I still hold out hope for the pizza. They seem to have their act together and a real passion for their food. In any event, even if the pizza sucks, it's worth going for the capresse salad alone.

I got to Scottsdale yesterday. The weather was pretty much the same as when I left Chicago. High around 50 and raining cats and dogs. I didn't have the energy or inclination to make a Pizzaria Bianco run last night, so instead I checked out Patsy Grimaldi's Coal Brick-Oven Pizza in Old Town Scottsdale instead.

Grimaldi's looks, from outward appearances, to be a chain-like restaurant, much like most other Scottsdale restaurants. They claim to be an outpost of a "famous" NYC place of the same name. As you know, I'm not a maven when it comes to New York style pizza. Maybe one of you New Yorkers can verify this for me. At any rate, the ovens are indeed coal fired and the pizzas are handmade in the New York tradition (granted, they are made by Mexicans, but are authentic looking to my midwestern eyes none-the-less.).

I decided to stick with the basics and ordered up a simple cheese and sausage pizza. The pizza was made with fresh house-made mozzerella, good quality sausage and a sauce which had visible leaves of basil in it. It was everything I've been told a NY pizza should be. Simple puffy-edged crust, browned nicely at the edges, cut in wedges and foldable. I actually enjoyed this pizza very much.

Patsy Grimaldi's Coal Brick-oven Pizza


Patsy Grimaldi's Coal Brick-Oven Pizza
4000 N. Scottsdale Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ
480-994-1100

1035 W. Queen Creek Rd
Chandler, AZ
480-812-2100

20715 N. Pima Rd
North Scottsdale, AZ
480-515-5588

Steve, that looks and sounds good (a little thick and doughy, perhaps, but the dough looks good). Patsy's is one of the old-school NYC places that, along with John's, gets the most press. Patsy Grimaldi's seems to be one of those not-so-friendly descendants, though it's supposed to be good. Not unlike the way Uno begat Malnati begat Pizano.

http://www.grimaldis.com/index.htm

By the way, if you have fond memories of La Locanda and/or Risotteria Nord (I do), half of the team (not Marco Conti, who stayed here) went to Scottsdale and opened La Locanda there. It's in a little stripmall, and is about as old-school as it gets in the desert. Still one of the best versions of osso buco and risotto alla Milanese I've had. I'm also partial to Durant's in downtown Phoenix. It's the Bob's (original), G&G, Musso & Frank, Murray's, Luger, Bern's, (you get the picture) of Phoenix.

Los Dos Molinos

I woke up this morning with the prospect of going to the airport and waiting and hoping that my flight would leave nearly on time (or at all). I thought about that for a total of two minutes before deciding to call the airline to change my flight back to Chicago to tomorrow instead of today. So, I took the opportunity to search for some good Mexican food...something that has eluded me for years on every visit to the Valley of the Sun. I always went under the assumption that since it's Arizona, good Mexican food should be as ubiquitous as a hot dog stand in Chicago. This is not the case, based on the numerous places clients and friends have taken me to over the years. I have always been quite under whelmed. I guess I never bothered to take the time to find out the most basic bit of information...namely, where do the Mexicans live (and eat).

My research said go South. The Mexican neighborhood was the South side of Phoenix but, as one person put it, "Be careful going there. Are you sure you want to go alone?" This turned out to be pure whitebread paranoia. Going to the south side of Phoenix was no more 'challenging' than going to Little Village (although Little Village had many more offerings than I found here in Phoenix).

I ended up finding a great example of New Mexican cooking at Los Dos Molinos. I have finally found a place to go that is worthy of my dreams of good Mexican/New Mexican food in Arizona. Los Dos Molinos is actually a mini-chain of sorts. They have four locations (including one in New York City). I know I liked the place right away when I read this on the menu:

When you read our menu and see the word 'chili' keep in mind we use New Mexico Chilis and this means 'Hot' with the best flavor this side of the Rio Grande. If you know 'Hot' put us to the test but if you don't we suggest you try one of our other wonderful dishes that don't have any 'Heat'. I'm sorry we do not provide a mild sauce, I do not know how to make 'Mild'.

Keep in mind we do not have a line of cooks in our kitchen. Each dish is prepared by myself or one of my daughters with only one helper. There is no assembly line here!

Being a spicy food lover, I had to give them a try. I ordered Adovada Ribs at the suggestion of my waiter (I asked him to suggest between the Chili Rellenos and the Red and Green Chili Plate boy, was I glad I took his suggestion). The Ribs turned out to be thick cut country style pork ribs marinated and braised in a red chili sauce. The ribs had the taste notes and consistency of carnitas (which are also on the menu). It was served with pinto beans with chilis and some pretty good Mexican Rice. They were right about saying that the food is hot, but it's not heat for heat's sake. The dish had a very balanced flavor, but enough heat to make me break a sweat (and that's a tall order). Desert was, of course, sopapillas with honey. I left there with the same spice-satisfied endorphen high I get from an especially spicy meal prepared for me at Spoon or Thai Aree. The only negative thing I can say at all is that although their tortillas are homemade, I've had better, and the food was a little salty. This was truly a great meal and a restaurant I will never miss again when visiting the Valley of the Sun.

Los Dos Molinos Adovada Ribs


Los Dos Molinos
8646 S. CEntral Avenue
Phoenix, AZ
602-243-9113

260 S. Alma School Road
Mesa, AZ
480-969-7475

East Main Street
Springerville, AZ (The Original)
928-333-4846

119 East 18th Street
New York, NY
212-505-1574

stevez wrote:When you read our menu and see the word 'chili' keep in mind we use New Mexico Chilis and this means 'Hot' with the best flavor this side of the Rio Grande.

O.K., so maybe I'm getting crotchety in my old age, but here in New Mexico and in the Republic of Mexico, the word is chile (plural is chiles). "Chili" is a completely different animal, a kind of stew or hash that the residents of the more primitive neighboring state of Texas argue about endlessly. Also, NM chiles span the range of heat from very mild to fairly hot

These were definately of the hot variety. The green ones were billed as being from Hatch. The reds were just called red chili's.

Steve,

Based on your review of Los Dos Molinos, I sent a couple of friends of mine there last night (they were driving through the Phoenix area en route to New Orleans).

When they got there (about 7:30 on a Monday night), the place was closed.

Dunno if they are just closed Mondays, or if it's permanent, but a call ahead is probably in order.....

ChiNOLA wrote:Steve,

Based on your review of Los Dos Molinos, I sent a couple of friends of mine there last night (they were driving through the Phoenix area en route to New Orleans).

When they got there (about 7:30 on a Monday night), the place was closed.

Dunno if they are just closed Mondays, or if it's permanent, but a call ahead is probably in order.....

Los Dos (as we locals call it) closes for up to a month in the summer (business is slow in Phoenix, great time to vacation)

For outstanding Mexican food, may I recommend Bario Cafe. This is more refined cuisine in the mold of Los Sombreros in Scottsdale (highly recommended as well) or Frontera Grill in Chicago. It is located on 16th St. just off Thomas in central Phoenix. The chef (a woman who's name escapes me) has been quoted, "People keep asking me to move the restaurant to Scottsdale. My reply is always the same; if they want to eat at my restaurant, they can come to my neighborhood."

This is my first post after finding this site. I am originally from Chicago (Northern Suburbs to be exact - can someone ship me a gyro and cheese fries from The Works in Morton Grove?). I live in Phoenix now, and due to job requirements travel all around the western states. I have worked in the industry; in Chicago at The Pump Room when LEY briefly had it, and at the now closed Brasserie T (which was owned by Rick Tramanto and Gail Gand).

I hope I can provide some good feedback and insight out here!

Hi Folks
I am on week 7 of our 9 week eBay cross country tour and have missed the goings on at LTH a lot. We where in Phoenix/Scottsdale last week and had occasion to try a couple of the recs I luckily had seen here prior to leaving

The huge highlight of our trip was the night all 18 of us descended on San Diego Bay restaurant in Guadalupe, AZ. (The street signs here say No picture taking during religous ceromonies). The restaurant is in a courtyard that one of my hispanic counterparts said reminded her of the town square in a mexican village.

I guessed that the downside to going with 18 people is we would see the good and the bad on the menu. And since it was me that talked everyone into going to the place I was a little nervous. As unbelieveable as it may sound, it was ALL good. And I am a hero to my team.

We pretty much ordered every appetizer they had. The guac and salsas all homemade and tasted like it. The drowned shrimp and the calamari in garlic and oil stick out as the winners of the round. We also polished off some very fresh raw oysters which ran a close second in my book. Everyone seemed to like the Cactus & olive oil appetizer as well.

I had the soup of 7 seas, already praised by Mr. Drucker and I can only add to that. My dining parters seemed concerned that I would leave hungry after ordering only soup and where no longer concerned when the large bowl filled with mostly seafood arrived. One of the ebay guys had marlin tacos and I tried some, very good and a spicy preparation although I probably couldnt tell what kind of fish it was if I didnt know.

The Mahi Mahi took the longest to prepare and arrived after the other 17 dinners, but it looked like it was worth the wait as well. Fresh and tasting of olive oil under a real light breading.

I fed some money into the jukebox and we ate while the Mexican Elvis serenaded us. When it was all over, the tables held only empty plates. I can't give them any greater complement than that, so I am done.
I have 2 pics below of the menu for posterity.
I am off to Denver tomorrow with my LTH list in hand.
Bob

From the Slice Photo Gallery: Pizzeria Bianco

E.M.

When I arrive in Phoenix on Saturday, it will be lunch time. I think I might check out San Diego Bay Restaurant. Is it similar to Dorado or Fonda del Mar? My friend and I discussed getting in line at Pizzeria Bianco an hour before it opens that night - I hope that will help us get a table! Looking for something uniquely Phoenix and possibly a little more on the healthy side for Sunday brunch and/or dinner. My friend made reservations for the Phoenician's afternoon tea. Anyone here been? Thanks.

My wife grew up in scottsdale and we go 4-5 times a year. As much as I want to try Bianco i havent been able to go because my little guy is not up for the wait and when in phoenix my wife informs me that i have to be all about family. Bianco will not do a carry out pizza btw, I have begged.

For brunch we like T Cooks in the Royal Palms hotel and Elements in the Sanctuary for a more hotely brunch. However, the best place for breakfast/brunch in phoenix is Le Grande Orange in the Arcadia historic neighborhood at 40th and Campbell in Phoenix. The place is set up like a grocery where they make great breakfast panini, wood fired pizza, etc and accompanying sundries. This place is a cant miss for me as many times as I can make it on any given trip. Chompies is also a good spot if you need to satisfy an urge for a bagel at the bagel.

I have many other restaurant suggestions for phoenix--i will make a post after my christmas trip.

Le Grande Orange
40th Street & Campbell
Phoenix, Az
602-840-7777
http://www.lagrandeorangegrocery.com/

T. Cooks
The Royal Palms Hotel
5200 East Camelback Road
Phoenix, Arizona 85018
Ph: 602.840.3610

Elements at the Sanctuary
5700 E MacDonald Rd
Paradise Valley, AZ
480-948-2800

Chompies
3202 East Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, Arizona 85032

or

9301 East Shea Blvd.
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260

There are some notes from my most recent trip to Phoenix (and Las Vegas) here:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12825

Have fun!

=R=

Ronnie, I see you made it to Postino which is part of the Le Grande Orange experience at 40th and Campbell. Did you check out LGO or Chelsea's Kitchen? We love Chelsea's as much as LGO and Postino.

In the 40 or so trips I have made to phoenix/scottsdale I have yet to find any mexican food that is worth writing home about. The fancy place at the Princess, the Hacienda, is good but I havent found anything else that does not feel chainy Has anyone else had a different experience? If so, let me know because i have to believe there is good mexican food somewhere in the valley.

*BTW, Tuscon is a whole different animal with excellent mexican food but is not a quick trip from my mother in laws in north scottsdale.

Here are two other favorite phoenix area places:

Tomasso's an old school locally owned italian place at 32nd and camelback. It has been consistently good for years although i have heard some griping that the quality has recently declined, though not in my experience.

Lon's at the Hermosa Inn--contemporary cowboy cuisine. Another gem

Lon's at the Hermosa Inn
3225 East Camelback Road
Phoenix, AZ

Tomasos
3225 East Camelback Road
Phoenix, AZ
http://www.tomasos.com

iblock9 wrote:In the 40 or so trips I have made to phoenix/scottsdale I have yet to find any mexican food that is worth writing home about. The fancy place at the Princess, the Hacienda, is good but I havent found anything else that does not feel chainy Has anyone else had a different experience? If so, let me know because i have to believe there is good mexican food somewhere in the valley.

If you'll include Ndew Mexican food in your quest, look upthread for my post about Los Dos Molinos. That is the only Mexican/New Mexican place I have found in the Valley that I feel is worth recommending.

iblock9 wrote:Ronnie, I see you made it to Postino which is part of the Le Grande Orange experience at 40th and Campbell. Did you check out LGO or Chelsea's Kitchen? We love Chelsea's as much as LGO and Postino.

No but I'll be sure to check it out soon. I should be back in the area in the next couple of months.

iblock9 wrote:In the 40 or so trips I have made to phoenix/scottsdale I have yet to find any mexican food that is worth writing home about. The fancy place at the Princess, the Hacienda, is good but I havent found anything else that does not feel chainy Has anyone else had a different experience? If so, let me know because i have to believe there is good mexican food somewhere in the valley.

A couple years back, I stumbled across a small, family-run taqueria called Tacos Feliz. It was pretty darned good. The place was basically a shack and they were cooking spatchcocked chickens over charcoal on a large table grill in front of the place. We enjoyed a really tasty meal on the hood of our rental car. I'm not sure if it's still there but if so, I'd say it's worth checking out.

=R=

Tacos Feliz
9401 N. Cave Creek
Phoenix, AZ 85020
602 395-3317

stevez wrote:If you'll include Ndew Mexican food in your quest, look upthread for my post about Los Dos Molinos. That is the only Mexican/New Mexican place I have found in the Valley that I feel is worth recommending.

Ill have to check it out although my inlaws will be sceptical. They are all originally from Albequerque and consider chile to be a religious experience. If it is New Mexican in the valley i am sure they have an opinion about Los Dos Molinos. It is really amazing that a city with such a huge hispanic population doesnt have a standout mexican place