if i'm not mistaken, kikkoman soy sauce is gluten free. used to have a client that carried it w/them for that reason. or so they said.

ViewsAskew wrote:I wonder if Erik M or anyone would have a greater knowledge of the ingredients used in Thai restaurants that we could have or should avoid. If anyone could help us expand our limited knowledge, I would be extremely grateful. Here's the little we know:

Fish sauce is normally gluten-free, but twice we've run into places that have wheat in theirs. We also avoid soy sauce, check the ingredients in the rice noodles, and know we can't have most rice wrappers. I know that Maggi seasoning has wheat, but I don't know if it's commonly used in Thai food or not. I don't think I've ever asked about it, maybe I should be. We also don't know that status of curries, so never order them. We usually take a small bottle of fish sauce and soy sauce just in case, and have taken rice or tapioca wrappers a few times, too.

Here is what I have to share:

1. The Thai brands of fish sauce which are available for sale in the U.S. most often contain anchovy extract, salt, water, and sugar. The Vietnamese brands, however, most often include hydrolyzed wheat protein in addition to the ingredients listed above. To be sure, you must ask. At Sticky Rice, for example, Kritsana cooks all of her Northern Thai specialties with a Vietnamese brand of fish sauce which contains hydrolyzied wheat protein. The greater balance of the cooking, however, is done with Tiparos brand Thai fish sauce which is wheat/gluten-free.

2. Some soy sauces do indeed appear to be gluten-free, but, to be sure, you must ask.

3. Maggi brand seasoning sauce is sometimes used in various Thai restaurant kitchens, but more often you will find Golden Mountain brand seasoning sauce. Like Maggi, Golden Mountain is a soy-based sauce, and one which is not suitable for people on a strict gluten-free diet.

4. Most of the Thai restaurants in town use commercially-prepared curry pastes to fashion their curry dishes, and in the case where these pastes are further enhanced or altered by the restaurants themselves (a common practice), they remain, to the best of my knowledge, gluten-free. To be sure, you must ask.

5. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with frying media, but I will tell you that peanut oils and vegetable (blended) oils are most commonly used in the Thai restaurant kitchen.

5. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with the various starch powders/thickeners like cornstarch, rice starch, sweet potato starch, and tapioca starch, but these sorts of things are found in abundance in the Thai resturant kitchen. Many stir-fried noodle dishes, for example, are prepared using a slurry of water and some form of starch. [Wontons, dumplings, etc., are almost always assembled with the aid of the same sort of slurry.]

6. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with other soy and bean products besides soy sauce, but soy bean oil and a wide variety of bean products can be found in abundance in the Thai restaurant kitchen. A properly-fashioned râat nâa ("lard nar"), for example, includes a fair bit of fermented yellow bean sauce. [Commercially available versions of náam phrík phão, or "roasted chile jam," which is a common element in restaurant versions of various soups, salads, and stir-fries, contains a fair bit of soy bean oil.]

7. Oyster sauce--a very common seasoning sauce in the Thai restaurant kitchen--most often contains wheat flour. Vegetarian oyster sauce, or "mushroom oyster sauce," is likely to be similarly problematic in that regard. To be sure, you must ask.

8. As for the viablity of rice noodles, rice papers, tapioca skins, etc., for those on a gluten-free diet, I am completely ignorant.

Regards,
E.M.

I just thought I'd chime in to say that tapioca is made from cassava. Cassava flour is commonly used as a gluten-free flour substitute. Thus, tapioca products should be gluten free, but Erik M's refrain of "To be sure you must ask" is certainly correct.

jazzfood wrote:if i'm not mistaken, kikkoman soy sauce is gluten free. used to have a client that carried it w/them for that reason. or so they said.

Kikkomen is not GF. It's second ingredient is wheat. We buy a great tamari that is GF and take it with us when we go I actually like it better than most soy sauces.

sorry. that's what i get for listening to hear say and not checking it on my own. my apologies.

ViewsAskew wrote:I wonder if Erik M or anyone would have a greater knowledge of the ingredients used in Thai restaurants that we could have or should avoid. If anyone could help us expand our limited knowledge, I would be extremely grateful.

Erik M. wrote:[Here is what I have to share:

1. The Thai brands of fish sauce which are available for sale in the U.S. most often contain anchovy extract, salt, water, and sugar. The Vietnamese brands, however, most often include hydrolyzed wheat protein in addition to the ingredients listed above.

2. Some soy sauces do indeed appear to be gluten-free, but, to be sure, you must ask.

3. Maggi brand seasoning sauce is sometimes used in various Thai restaurant kitchens, but more often you will find Golden Mountain brand seasoning sauce.

4. Most of the Thai restaurants in town use commercially-prepared curry pastes to fashion their curry dishes, and in the case where these pastes are further enhanced or altered by the restaurants themselves (a common practice), they remain, to the best of my knowledge, gluten-free. To be sure, you must ask.

5. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with frying media, but I will tell you that peanut oils and vegetable (blended) oils are most commonly used in the Thai restaurant kitchen.

5. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with the various starch powders/thickeners like cornstarch, rice starch, sweet potato starch, and tapioca starch, but these sorts of things are found in abundance in the Thai resturant kitchen.

6. I am not sure whether you need to concern yourself with other soy and bean products besides soy sauce, but soy bean oil and a wide variety of bean products can be found in abundance in the Thai restaurant kitchen.

7. Oyster sauce--a very common seasoning sauce in the Thai restaurant kitchen--most often contains wheat flour.

8. As for the viablity of rice noodles, rice papers, tapioca skins, etc., for those on a gluten-free diet, I am completely ignorant.

Regards,
E.M.

That was a wonderful list - thank you. To anyone who dines out and who has any food intolerances/allergies/etc., as Erik M stated, asking is essential. It's also time consuming and not all restaurants will help you through this. It's best to go at non-busy times, call ahead, and stick to items (at first) that you are pretty sure are likely to be GF - less checking for them, success for you, create relationship so they are likely to check more the next time.

I'd forgotten oyster sauce. We also carry that with us, as 98% of all brands have gluten (that I've seen). Now I understand the fish sauce issue. I've only seen it as you described when I've purchased it, but twice we've found restaurants with wheat in it - now I know why.

Per soy sauce, no restaurant routinely carries GF soy sauce as a general rule. Yes, you can buy them - if anyone needs any, two are good: Braggs soy aminos and San-J's wheat free tamari. Our "go-to" Chinese and sushi restaurants are kind enough to keep a bottle of San-J for us.

Thanks for the edification on the Maggi and Golden Mountain. I will put that on my list of things to ask about. We don't need to worry about soy products as a rule - it's only when they use wheat or wheat proteins in them So, soy oil, bean pastes, etc. as long as they don't have wheat/gluten additives are fine. I keep fermented black beans at home and use them in Chinese cooking. It's also great to hear that they primarily use starches - corn, rice, tapioca, sweet potato, etc. - in thickening rather than using any wheat products.

Interesting about the curries. We love them, but stopped trying to find out what is in them. We never seemed to be able to get anyone to either read the original can or bring it to us so we can read it (heck, it could be written entirely in Thai). We were lucky once in the far south suburbs - and had a wonderful curry that the proprietor made for us. Since then, we've not been so lucky. Maybe we'll push this again in the future since you feel that the ingredients are likely to be GF. When I buy small cans in the Asian grocers, they are GF, but as you said, we always ask - it's just a lot to ask sometimes.

If anyone else needs to know about the wrappers, noodles, etc. mung bean threads are safe, as are most thin rice noodles. But, as was already stated, always ask! Fresh, wide noodles, however, always contain wheat. Rice wrappers for spring rolls (except at a few Vietnamese places) always contain wheat. You can buy small and large tapioca and rice skins at most Asian grocers (and Whole Foods) - they are dried; simply wet them and allow them to rehydrate. If you can't have wheat, these work well.

JimTheBeerGuy wrote:I just thought I'd chime in to say that tapioca is made from cassava. Cassava flour is commonly used as a gluten-free flour substitute. Thus, tapioca products should be gluten free, but Erik M's refrain of "To be sure you must ask" is certainly correct.

Yep, tapioca (also called cassava and manioc) products often are gluten-free (GF) - but, it's amazing what wheat can get added into! Those lovely little Brazilian cheese rolls for example. When I make them, they are GF - but at Brazzos? Yep, they have wheat! Wheat flour is so helpful in baking (and cheap and available everywhere), even things that are traditionally GF often get changed here in the US and are no longer GF.

FYI, my absolutely favorite pizza crust (one I would continue to eat even if my partner could miraculously eat gluten again) is a tapioca flour crust. Mmmmm. It's truly excellent.

Another thing to take into consideration is the pan in which the meal will be prepared. It's my understanding that most woks are well seasoned and rarely scrubbed clean. I wonder if any Thai restaurants have clean woks about. I don't think I would have the heart to ask anyone to scrub a perfectly seasoned wok.

Erik M., thanks for the tutorial on the products frequently used in Thai kitchens. It was definitely useful.

Veloute wrote:Another thing to take into consideration is the pan in which the meal will be prepared. It's my understanding that most woks are well seasoned and rarely scrubbed clean. I wonder if any Thai restaurants have clean woks about.

If this matter is a preeminent consideration for the diner, then the diner is probably best advised to steer clear of Chicagoland Thai restaurants altogether. I've spent a lot of time in Chicagoland Thai restaurant kitchens (and even cooked in a few of them), and I have never seen a wok get more than a quick rinse and a light, soap-free scrub between firings. [In all actuality, a legitimate wok station is set up to expedite exactly this sort of procedure and little else.]

Now, if the diner's preeminent consideration is instead for "cross-contamination" as it relates to a wok, vessel, or cooking surface being completely meat-, fish-, and fowl-free, then the diner is probably best advised to stick to Dharma Garden. I've not yet been in the kitchen at Dharma Garden, but I've been repeatedly assured that they maintain fully separate prep/cook/fry operations for the preparation of vegetarian/vegan food.

Regards,
E.M.

Had our first taste of Crispy On Choy last night and it was, as has been repeated here countless times, excellent. We took a friend from Paris who had never been to a Thai restaurant and he was blown away. Our server proudly told us that Chef Andy, having been here for 10 years, was unfamiliar with the dish Crispy On Choy, which is a current fave in Thailand. She came only two years ago, told him about it, and convinced him to serve it.
Andy arrived at the restaurant while we were ordering and when I expressed some anxiety about who was preparing the food, he assured me that he had trained his cooks well and that they were good. Since he spent most of the time out talking with friends, I know he did not prepare our food, but he was right. It was all quite good.
Regarding a well-seasoned wok and how it is cleaned between dishes, we have spent time in the kitchen of Ad's Thai Pastry (on Broadway south of Argyle) and it is "scrubbed" with a bamboo brush and ONLY water (from the faucets conveniently placed over the cooking fires). Like a well-seasoned cast iron pan, you would never want it scrubbed clean. Indian restaurants and kosher restaurants would be likely to separate meat and veg prep and cooking stations, but probably not most Thai ones.

The Sloppy Vegetarian.

If anyone sees the Beef Curry w/ Roti on the specials board could you please let us/me know. I am going through withdrawals! I live around the corner and it hasn't shown in awhile even though I keep pleading. I have a line of people waiting to try it.

Also, one of my new favorites is the fish cakes app. I have had no exposure to these other than TAC. How do they compare to other places?

Jim

rhinopias wrote:If anyone sees the Beef Curry w/ Roti on the specials board could you please let us/me know. I am going through withdrawals! I live around the corner and it hasn't shown in awhile even though I keep pleading. I have a line of people waiting to try it.

Jim, what keeps you from asking Andy directly?

I remember asking him several weeks ago, after returning from a doctor-ordered Thai food hiatus, and he told me that he'd been waiting until I felt better. Well, I feel alot better, and if it's bothering you so, you should make a point of asking him. It's my curry powder, after all.

rhinopias wrote:Also, one of my new favorites is the fish cakes app. I have had no exposure to these other than TAC. How do they compare to other places?

They are quite different as these things go, and I found them very enjoyable on the two occasions that I tried them. They are hand-made, round in shape, nicely spicy, and attended by a very bright and flavourful sauce.*

E.M.

* Believe it or not, I'm still finding new things to try at TAC. Why, just tonight, I tried the "seaweed soup" listed on the farang menu. Next up, it will be its menumate, the "grilled calamari."

Erik -

I have never asked to speak to Andy as I assumed my pleading would be made known, however I shall march in today and ask Andy himself.

Also, on a brief note, I would like to thank you for your translations as they have started an entire new addiction/passion for me. Not only do I love the food, but I also enjoy taking other people out to try the real Thai menus and having a wee bit of knowledge on the offerings. Your effort is greatly appreciated!

J

rhinopias wrote:I have never asked to speak to Andy as I assumed my pleading would be made known, however I shall march in today and ask Andy himself.

He usually rolls in around 1.30pm, after going to the market(s).

And, if you want, feel free to tell him that I told you to ask him.

rhinopias wrote:Also, on a brief note, I would like to thank you for your translations as they have started an entire new addiction/passion for me. Not only do I love the food, but I also enjoy taking other people out to try the real Thai menus and having a wee bit of knowledge on the offerings. Your effort is greatly appreciated!

That's why I do it.

And, let me know if you want me to join you sometime.

E.M.

P.S. Do you travel much? Wait until you see what I discovered in Los Angeles...

Erik M. wrote:...a doctor-ordered Thai food hiatus

Wow, this seems to be the stuff of epic Hollywood fare. Like the injured superstar athlete sidelined while his team competes in the big game or when Superman had to watch helplessly when his powers were revoked. Good to have you back on board.

I know your depth of food knowledge reaches far beyond Thai, but let's face it, it's the translated Thai menus that make you a shoo-in first ballot LTH Hall of Famer.

I had lunch at TAC yesterday. I hadn't been there in a long time - too long! I tried the crispy on choy and it was excellent and I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.

The problem that I encounter with TAC is that I can never decide what to get! There's too much! For instance, I really wanted to try the crispy on choy but since I hadn't been in a while I wanted to also have something else - pork neck, fried chicken, green curry over omelet, etc, etc, etc.

I'm usually dining alone so I can't really justify ordering more that 2 dishes. One time I did order 3 things by myself. And I almost ate all of it.

when faced w/your dilemma, i can't help but order away. it's part of the the habit we support. you don't have to eat it all @ once though. there's always lunch tomorrow and the next day. you'll be so glad you did.

tapler wrote:

Erik M. wrote:...a doctor-ordered Thai food hiatus

Wow, this seems to be the stuff of epic Hollywood fare. Like the injured superstar athlete sidelined while his team competes in the big game or when Superman had to watch helplessly when his powers were revoked. Good to have you back on board.

I know your depth of food knowledge reaches far beyond Thai, but let's face it, it's the translated Thai menus that make you a shoo-in first ballot LTH Hall of Famer.

The details are gruesome. Suffice it to say that I was ordered to abstain from spice, citrus, alcohol, and coffee for a period of nearly three months. As you suggest, it was very difficult for me, but it did allow me the opportunity to reaquaint myself with bland, white foods like potatoes and bread.

Anyway, you flatter me; wait until you see what I discovered in LA's ThaiTown...

E.M.

OK Mr. Erik..........that's the second reference to LA. When will we find out what's up? I'm in LA from time to time.

Do we get pics?

rhinopias wrote:OK Mr. Erik..........that's the second reference to LA. When will we find out what's up? I'm in LA from time to time.

Do we get pics?

Check out the Beyond Chicagoland board. At the moment, nine of the first fifteen or so are based on Erik's recent trip to LA. And yes, lots of pics.

OK, Andy finally made a large batch of kaeng kàrìi néau, which should be enough to last for the next few days.

Additionally, at my request, Andy has added a personal favourite to the Specials Board:


khanõm jiin kaeng khĩaw-wãan lûuk chin plaa kraay, or thin rice vermicelli with green curry
and homemade fishballs

They are both selling at a rapid clip, so get them while you still can.

Oh, and I'd suggest two separate visits. Two rich, coconut milk-based curry dishes at one sitting will really lay you out flat. Besides, these items are best enjoyed alone, or in the company of an appetizer or two, at the very most.

E.M.

Finally got over to TAC Quick last night.

Wow.

I started with the Thai style fried chicken. This was without a doubt the best fried chicken I've ever had. I liked it even more than the crispy skin chicken at LTH, which I want to like more than I actually do.

Moved on to the khâo khlûk kà-pì nãa “RAM” (shrimp paste-seasoned rice, served with sweet pork, green mango, omelette, dried shrimp, and red onion). While all of the individual components of this dish were wonderful, what really brought the whole thing together was the green mango. The mango provided the perfect counterpoint to all of the other rich and complex flavors that make up this dish.

I will definitely be back, and soon.

HURRY - Beef Curry w/ Roti is back up on the specials board and I'm awaiting our delivery as I type. They also suggested a special I haven't seen before, Fish Cake Pasta??? Has anyone had or seen this before? Update tomorrow.

Edit...........just scrolled and saw Erik's post about the Fish Cake Pasta.......Erik, I think you have a stalker, at least in the good way! Thanks once again.

Jim

Made our maiden voyage to TAC last night- no complaints other than swarms of retardly drunk green-clad hooligans. I was puzzled by one part of the order, though- we ordered the som tum with salted crab with the crab on the side, since my gf is allergic to crustaceans. The waitress seemed a bit puzzled by the special request and explained that the crab was very salty and should not be eaten on its own. A cute little crab, seperately plated arrived with the order. It seemed that the crab had been brined in the raw. I was not quite sure what to do with the little guy, though- I was able to salvage flecks of very salty meat from the sides of the legs, but I have to say it wasn't very substantial. Was I meant to eat the shell? I love soft shells and have enjoyed the very tiny deep fried guys that Katsu serves at a garnish. But eating raw crab shell seemed odd to me. Otherwise, the karee beef roti was sumptuous as was the fish ball pasta in curry. Worth the hype, for sure.

Jefe wrote:Made our maiden voyage to TAC last night- no complaints other than swarms of retardly drunk green-clad hooligans. I was puzzled by one part of the order, though- we ordered the som tum with salted crab with the crab on the side, since my gf is allergic to crustaceans. [...] A cute little crab, seperately plated arrived with the order. It seemed that the crab had been brined in the raw. I was not quite sure what to do with the little guy, though- I was able to salvage flecks of very salty meat from the sides of the legs, but I have to say it wasn't very substantial. Was I meant to eat the shell? I love soft shells and have enjoyed the very tiny deep fried guys that Katsu serves at a garnish. But eating raw crab shell seemed odd to me.

There are two types of crab, and, based on your description, I am not sure which type you were served. First, there is puu khem, which is a tiny, raw, brined crab. [U.S. restaurants used a jarred/frozen product.] And, then, there is puu maa, which is a briefly-marinated, raw, blue crab. [U.S. restaurants customarily use fresh/live domestic blue crabs.] TAC is the only Thai restaurant in town that serves puu maa in addition to puu khem. At any rate, what the diner does with either type once it has been served is their own business. Me, I get real dirty with crabs of both sorts, assuming that their quality is sufficient. [I crunch the shells, I suck the meat from the legs, etc.] But, some people that I know, including a large number of Thais, do not do much, if anything, with either sort.

Jefe wrote:The waitress seemed a bit puzzled by the special request and explained that the crab was very salty and should not be eaten on its own.

The waitress was likely puzzled for another reason, as well, as both types of crab are customarily pounded in the mortar along with the papaya, chile, etc., and lend the dish a distinct character. To serve either sort alongside? Well, that's just odd.

E.M.

It was definitely puu khem. I would recognize blue crab. It was more like one of the little fellows you see scurrying on the beach in the Carribean. Thanks for the wealth of info, Erik. I'm sure I'm not the only Chicago foodie with a deep appreciation of the exposure to authentic southeast Asian food that you have bestowed upon us.

Jefe wrote:It was definitely puu khem. I would recognize blue crab. It was more like one of the little fellows you see scurrying on the beach in the Carribean. Thanks for the wealth of info, Erik. I'm sure I'm not the only Chicago foodie with a deep appreciation of the exposure to authentic southeast Asian food that you have bestowed upon us.

Thank you for the kind words, Jefe.

Listen, I meant to add a couple of things to my commentary above...

I greatly prefer the quickly-marinated blue crab to the imported frozen/thawed pickled products from Thailand, so, if, as it now sounds, you haven't tried the version of papaya salad with blue crab, I hope that you do sometime.

And, on a related note, I came back from Los Angeles with a couple of fantastic recipes for briefly-marinated blue crab "salad" which don't include much more than raw blue crab. I'm trying to convince Andy to "test drive" one of them on the TAC Specials Board, so maybe you will get a chance to try it.*

E.M.

* I have yet to post about the two establishments that furnished me with the recipes, but I hope to do so shortly. Of course, both posts will include pictures, so you will at least get a better idea of what I'm talking about.