Moving to Chicago around 1/1

Well it's going to happen, finally. My future fiance and myself are going to be moving to Chicago right around 1/1/08 and we are beginning to think about our residence location. I'm hoping for some help from you all as we are extremely food focused.

Criteria:

We will rent for about 6 months while we decide where we'd like to buy- we'd like to rent in some of the neighborhoods suggested (obviously we will only live one place but will spend time in all suggested neighborhoods).

As far as housing price we are looking at spending 500-750 for a 2-3 bedroom with 2 car garage and all the amenities, so that kind of gives you an idea of the economic situation we are in. Rent wise we could probably swing up to 3-4k a month + utilites, but on the cheaper side is better as we don't mind living in a small place and instead throwing money at a house.

We only want to be in the city- neither of us wants to live in the burbs.

We want to be ideally within walking distance of a supermarket, bars and a t least a few restaurants we can call our own. Right now I am in walking distance of a great italian place known as Dino in Washington, DC (http://www.dino-dc.com). We are looking to make a few places our own- ideally a couple of bars and a restaurant or two, though we will be venturing all over the city and burbs to eat. Public transportation is only of an issue for us as it will increase resale value of a property to buy, but if we had to give that up- no biggie.

Right now we are looking at the Wicker Park/Bucktown area because of the large growth there in the past few years, but we are open to anything. I suggested against Wrigleyville only because of traffic on gamedays, but if people think that's really a non-issue, then I could consider it.

As far as food we eat everything and anything but as far as regular eats we tend to stick to Italian, Red Meat, French, and standard american fare.

So what say you LTH folks? Little help here?

jpschust wrote:Criteria:
As far as housing price we are looking at spending 500-750 for a 2-3 bedroom with 2 car garage and all the amenities, so that kind of gives you an idea of the economic situation we are in.

That's going to be a difficult find, and Chicago, as far as big cities go, is a reasonably-priced rental town. You might have to give up on the garage and a good deal of the amenities.

A good place to start is the weekly publication, The Reader. It has an online apartment finder.

I think they meant $500,000-$750,000 for the house, and $3,000-$4,000/month for the apartment.

I really doubt they'll have any problems finding suitable housing in most neighborhoods..

aschie30 wrote:

jpschust wrote:Criteria:
As far as housing price we are looking at spending 500-750 for a 2-3 bedroom with 2 car garage and all the amenities, so that kind of gives you an idea of the economic situation we are in.

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I took the impression he left a "K" of that 500-750, because the next part reads :

jpschust wrote:Rent wise we could probably swing up to 3-4k a month + utilites, but on the cheaper side is better as we don't mind living in a small place and instead throwing money at a house.

SSDD

Either way, I guess it's not clear.

HI,

Until you do pull the trigger and move, do you think you could post on our Beyond Chicagoland Board on the food scene in Washington, D.C. and environs? Lots of us travel and love recommendations from kindred spirits.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

I don't know about renting, but that price range ($500-750k) in a walking-friendly, restaurant-dense neighborhood is tight IF you're looking for a single-family home (w/ garage)-- you can totally forget Wicker Park... that's the price range for a LOT, not a house (we left Wicker Park two years ago to be able to buy... we're now in Andersonville). For a 2-3 bedroom condo (w/garage) in that range, you'd have a lot more options, I think, probably any area except somewhere super-trendy. The more north or west (or south) you go of course, the prices tend to drop.

We also had foodie-oriented criteria when looking to change neighborhoods (out of Wicker Park, as mentioned), but also valued "walking neighborhoods" and some proximity to public transport. We looked at: Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village, Albany Park/'End of Brown Line' area, Ravenswood and then finally discovered and settled in Andersonville.

Welcome, and good luck!

eh...okay...I'll bite:

depending on yr criteria 3-4k is in the upper tier for 2 bdrm. apt.'s in even the "nice" neighborhoods; i.e. no problemo...you'll easily find something for less

house market is considerably tighter: what yr offering will place you North in Roger's Park(if that) or considerably South

I'd like to be wrong, but there's nothing much in the city's heart that runs as affordable

We'll assume this is, at heart, a food question...

As folks said, I don't see you getting what you want for that money in Wrigleyville at all-- it's way over that by now-- and I suspect you'd only find it "in" Wicker Park by a very liberal definition of the term. Supermarket vs. two car garage may be a tradeoff (but depending on where you move and work, two cars may be unnecessary anyway).

The fact is, unless you're made of money, one way you invest in real estate in Chicago is by investing some time in a changing neighborhood before it becomes that cool place you hope it will be. So I'd look at places like Albany Park, Rogers Park, etc., accept that they may still be grittier and rougher around the edges than you entirely wish, and give it all some time.

(And if I was really adventurous today? I'd go look in Back of the Yards. It's barely on the radar yet, but you've got nice-looking fixer-up housing stock, good Mexican food with a smattering of Eastern European still nearby, a thriving commercial district, and you're as close to downtown as Wrigleyville. No doubt the same is true of a number of near south side neighborhoods, it just particularly struck me when scouting down there for the event linked above.)

Um, we spent in that range in NW Bucktown a year ago. Single family house, 2 car garage, small yard, 3 Br, 3.5 baths. It's NOT a fancy house, and it's very drafty downstairs, but it works. And yes, we are still E. of Western

It is most definitely do-able. We have 2 friends who are good real estate agents, PM me if you want their names and contact info.

Lee

Mike G wrote:The fact is, unless you're made of money, one way you invest in real estate in Chicago is by investing some time in a changing neighborhood before it becomes that cool place you hope it will be. So I'd look at places like Albany Park, Rogers Park, etc., accept that they may still be grittier and rougher around the edges than you entirely wish, and give it all some time.

If you live in a city like Chicago for 10+ years, you grow somewhat comfortable in your ability to judge and assess the risks of living in an "edgy" neighborhood.

OTOH, if you move every 5-6 years, as I have for the past 25 years, I think that you look more for established neighborhoods that are less edgy until you become familiar with the neighborhoods.

(Coming from a person who was steered into a neighborhood in St. Louis that had a crack house on every block.)

sorry- to clarify- the 500-750 was in "k" for the purchase of a place, the 3-4k was about what we'd spend for rent. We probably have the means to spend more on a home, but we'd rather not overextend ourselves. The more focal points for us are the locations in proximity to food and neighborhoods in the city- hence why I posted this here.

As far as the posting on the abroad board I'll transfer in some of my prior reviews fo places from up and down the East Coast that have been posted elsewhere before this. I've got some pretty lengthy writings that will help out for those that travel to DC as well as to NY and PA.

You'll be fine. We just bought a 3 bed/2.5 bath condo in Lincoln Park (near Diversey and Hampden) at the lower end of your price range. It's not new construction (about 30 years old) but it's in pretty good shape. It only included garage spot thought. Anyway, the point is I think you'll have plently of options regardless of neighborhood based on my own recently completed home search.

Also, if you're going to rent, 3-4K per month can get you just about anything.

As Christopher Gordon says, you'll have your pick for $3-4K in rent. Personally, I'd use the gold coast as a base of operations if you're renting first. Why? One, because it's a nice intro to Chicago. Two, I think a few months there may make you yearn for an outer, less congested, less touristy, less chain-restaurant neighborhood. Three, you have great access to public transportation to get around to all the other neighborhoods if you don't want to drive.

For the house in the specified range, I like Ukrainian Village/East Village (where I live). I live in a 3 bed/3 bath house with a two-car garage (purchased 3 years ago) and you can still buy that there in your price range. I live one and a half blocks from Chicago Avenue, due west of the Gold Coast/Mag Mile -- only $2 to ride the Rt. 66 "rags-to riches" bus there. It is also about 4 blocks from Western Avenue, one of the most diverse chow streets in the city, and 1/2 block west of Ashland, which, coupled with Western will take you anywhere you want. It's also a ten minute drive to the Loop (where I work) and close to both the 290 and 90/94 highways.

Three of my favorite restaurants are: West Town Tavern (right down the street), Sabatino's (a long time favorite and a quick ride on the 90/94) and Spacca Napoli (a straight shot up Ashland Ave). So you can see why I like it.

That's my two cents. PM me if you'd like my agent's name. She's a bulldog and will get you want you want.

If I had my pick, I'd go to Ravenswood Manor, which is parked neatly between Albany Park and Lincoln Square. We had a condo here (a block west, technically) and I couldn't have asked for a better neighborhood.

It's more neighborhood than high-density urban, but there's so much right at your fingertips. You've got the yuppie-niceness of Lincoln Square, with enough of the the old German neighborhood to support a first class delicatessen and at least four solid German restaurants (the better two, a shade south) a 10-minute walk east. You've got the many-splendored offerings of Albany Park (in which the Manor technically resides) 5-10 minutes to your west. And by January, the Francisco el stop should be open once again. The neighborhood is beautiful and friendly, you're right off the north branch of the Chicago river, the Montrose Saloon is an easy shot no matter where you are. If we were to move back to Chicago and could afford a home there, we'd choose Ravenswood Manor hands down.

OK- so feel free to add more neighborhoods to go to or to avoid for chow friendliness based on our requirements, but so far I have the following areas to research:

Wicker Park/Bucktown
Ravenswood Manor
Ukranian Villiage/East Village
Lincoln Park
Albany Park
Rogers Park

I'm going to knock out Gold Coast on the basis that the poster makes it seem like it's almost all chains and whatnot. I try my best to not eat at chain places (meaning anything other than a very local chain) whatsoever.

As far as neighborhoods being a touch crunchier- you can't get much more block to block crunchy than the area in which I already live- 2 blocks one direction are condos going for 1-2.5m and a block the other direction is low income housing. There was a stabbing behind my condo (not a cheap condo) and a shooting up the street, but I also live in one of the best school districts in the DC area. It's a total odd mix of what's there if you want to be urban in DC. I can't stand living in the suburbs. Did it for 2 years. Worst 2 years of my life. Well, that or high school

"Edgy neighborhoods are super until you or someone you love becomes the victim of a violent crime and suddenly it seems less "cool". I grew up in the city and now I am married with kids and even though the burb I live in borders Chicago I don't feel afraid to walk to the mailbox at dusk.

Also if you have kids the schools pretty much stink. And yes I can confidently say that because EVERYONE in my family has worked for the CPS and they were disgusted by their administrations and many fellow teachers.

Ok I'm getting off my soapbox now !

OK folks.

It's time to get this discussion moving back towards things culinary. We've been pretty lenient about letting a discussion about real estate move forward because it was, in spirit, a culinary question.

Unfortunately, this has taken a turn that threatens to become "internet kudzu" rather quickly: crime, safety, my-school-is-better-than-your-school, and other politically-tinged statements.

Consider this the first and last moderator warning whistle. Please move this conversation towards living in neighborhoods with access to good food, which is what the OP asked for.

Thanks for your understanding.

Best,
Michael
for the moderators

Jpchust-

Based upon what you said about your neighborhood in DC, you'll be well-positioned to find a cool place to live here.

I should clarify my statement about the Gold Coast. It is appended to the Mag Mile/River North area - think Manhattan. While not everything is a chain, that's where you'll find the highest concentration of chains and general chain commercialism (Gap, Banana Republic, etc.). On the other hand, I can't think of a single chain restaurant in my neighborhood.

I think you've been given some fantastic suggestions, but I thought I would also mention my neighborhood, the West Loop. We moved here for the shorter commute and because we couldn't afford to buy a condo in Roscoe Village. But we've grown to absolutely love it and to truly enjoy our culinary neighbors.

We love Jerry's Sandwiches, Bombon Cafe, and La Sardine, to name some of the options in the heart of the area. Union Park, Beer Bistro, and Third Rail serve pretty standard bar food, but they are great places to have a drink.

To the East of us, is Greektown, which is festive every day and well into the night. To the North is the Randolph Street row of restaurants that offer some fantastic upscale options as well as the Tasting Room wine bar and its adjoining Randolph Wine Cellars shop. To the South is Taylor Street with some fun Old School Italian restaurants, Italian beef/italian ice stands, and a nice Italian markets/bakeries. You're a quick drive away from the Italian markets and bakeries of Grand Avenue, the Mexican neighborhood of Pilsen and minutes away from most major expressways.

The Southern portion of the neighborhood is served by the CTA Blue Line, but CTA buses serve most parts of the neighborhood. There's a Dominick's grocery store on the Eastern edge of the neighborhood. The condo/town home market here is still relatively affordable considering its location to the Loop. The downside is that it is a relatively new community (for Chicago) and that it doesn't have the density and history of other neighborhoods.

Out of curiosity- is the West Loop kind of where Underground Wunderbar is? Also, what do the locals usually think of that place? We were there a while back and it was fun, mainly because we taught the staff how to take shots of GM.

Out of curiosity- is the West Loop kind of where Underground Wunderbar is? Also, what do the locals usually think of that place? We were there a while back and it was fun, mainly because we taught the staff how to take shots of GM.

That would be in the Gold Coast, which is directly North of Downtown.

OK- is that area in general kind of what Gold Coast has to offer? We played from there down to the loop for a while, but it seemed kind of touristy...was that just me?

yes, touristy - you can do much better in the neighborhoods

jpschust wrote:OK- is that area in general kind of what Gold Coast has to offer? We played from there down to the loop for a while, but it seemed kind of touristy...was that just me?

That area is touristy ...

In general, you can find pretty good food and good restaurant in nearly every neighborhood in Chicago. You can find some pretty good food along the Gold Coast and there are some pretty interesting opportunities in the Loop (Central Business District).

And when you exhaust all of the eating opportunities in the city, there are thousands of great opportunities in most suburbs which stretch out for 60 miles in ALL directions. There are some pretty great places along the various METRA rail tracks and the like.

jpschust wrote:Out of curiosity- is the West Loop kind of where Underground Wunderbar is? Also, what do the locals usually think of that place? We were there a while back and it was fun, mainly because we taught the staff how to take shots of GM.

The Underground Wonderbar is one of my favorite bars and I just don't get there often enough. To really experience it you have to go for one of owner, Lonnie Walker's shows...she's got this free wheeling, expansive Janis Joplin-esque spirit, amazing piano chops, a smokin' band, and a gorgeous, mellifluous, "scratchy" voice. I'm not doin' to good with the adjectives there...sorry. Just go...when not on tour she performs at least a couple times a week.

As for the Gold Coast: I rent in the Gold Coast, but not the commercial, post-frat, s/m, part. I live in the "other" Gold Coast. The one north of Division with the few remaining Chicago mansions and lovely spring gardens. You really need to check *that* Gold Coast out.

Unfortunately, it's even further from good eats then the *other* GC. There're few restaurants in the neighborhood proper(Pump Room, Mario's, Third Coast, PJ Clarke's). I like PJ Clarke's, but out of those only The Pump Room is a destination. We're just not zoned for food. It's virtually all residential. You *can* walk the few blocks over to Wells(Old Town) for more dining options and hey! that's where the best li'l spice shop in the city resides! The Spice House.
Assuming you choose to follow the food and don't move to GC, you really need to visit in the Spring just to walk around and admire the architecture, gardens, and the Lincoln Park Zoo is only 15-20 min. away by foot

ok, well we've moved up the date- we'll be in chicago on or about 8/1 and we're coming in next weekend to sign a lease, so I wanted to follow up with a few questions that might repeat, but will maybe bring up some new info for us.

We've narrowed down our areas to:

Wicker Park/Bucktown
South Loop
Near West Loop

Can you all give me a sense of what intersections we should be looking around for closest proximity to restaurants/bars and also to be safe?

Bucktown/Wickerpark

Division and Ashland
Milwukee and Damen
Division and Damen
Armitage and Damen

I'm not sure South Loop is going to give you the culinary spots you are looking for although a quick el ride to Chinatown. I am very confident you can find many places in your price range (other than the two car garage) most of us only have one car, in Bucktown/Wicker Park/West Town. We have a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath one car space in the garage(there is ample free on street parking) balcony and patio. Paid less than $500k, about 2 years ago, but I see signs all over in that range. Also, there is still Ukranian Village which is very close.

right now we're just going to rent for a year until we feel out the neighborhoods some more- so that's where im focused on renting.

jpschust wrote:
We've narrowed down our areas to:

Wicker Park/Bucktown
South Loop
Near West Loop

Personally, I have no fondness for the South loop. Tons of new high rise condos, but lacking in character, and despite a few recent cullinary additions, and proximity to Chinatown, I am not a fan.


Wicker Park/Bucktown has more of a neighborhood feel, and a ton of local bars and very good restaurants - many clustered along the main streets Milwaukee, Division, and Ashland. Near those streets, although not necessarily on them, is a good bet. If you plan to take public transportation to work, consider that the El runs right under Milwaukee, so housing near Milwaukee often comes at a slight premium.

I live in the Near West Loop and love it - we can walk to the loop for work, or walk to dozens of restaurants for dinner, or hop on the highway in minutes. One great restaurant street is Randolph from Canal St west to...Ogden or so. Its not a street you would want to live on, but if you go south of Randolph there are tons of new condo buildings on the next few blocks.

And FWIW, I also know a fabulous Realtor, so PM me if you are interested.