What do you say when you see a rat?

So, we were eating dinner at a fairly nice place, a little after 10pm, only table occupied in the place, the help had retired for the moment and we were comfortably dawdling over the remains of a meal. One of my companions says, "Aha, now I see. I kept seeing this movement out of the corner of my eye, and now I see it was a rat walking across the floor in back."

Me, I am pretty casual about rats. I know they are around every restaurant, and probably get inside here and there. I know that Ag Dept guidelines allow for a certain amount of rat poop and hair in a lot of different foods, particularly grains, seeds and beans. And how many of us have mice or cockroaches in one drawer or another?

So this did not bother me, even though the Bride objected strongly. But what should I do next? Should I tell someone (not here, I know)? Can I, in good consicience recommend what was actually a very good meal in a pleasant restaurant?

What would you do?

It's inconceivable to me that any could be that blase about rats. But that's neither here nor there: I'm at a total loss to understand why you should have any hesitation whatsoever. Report it to the Health Department for god's sake. Why on earth wouldn't you?

FWIW, I can't speak for everyone, but I know that we don't have mice, roaches, or other beasties in our drawers. And yes, I'm sure.

I'd say something, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Yes, rats are everywhere, but a restaurant should know anyway. It could be something as simple as a busperson leaving the backdoor open and allowing a rat to scuttle in, but it could also indicate a more serious problem.

Personally, I don't freak out about rats either, unless, you know, there is a whole flotilla of them.

Yeah -- I agree. Tell the restaurant and see how they react. Don't go to the Health Department first. Some place that is totally innocent, such as the example of the busperson leaving a door open, could be shut down. Only go to the Health Dept. if no one cares, or if you find out the kitchen is disgusting. Most of the outdoor dining venues I've enjoyed in the city have had rats lurking in the bushes, so I just don't sit near the bushes, but I still eat at the restaurants. It's not that I think rats are okay, it's just that I know they're there. Reports to Health Depts should be saved for obvious and continued violations, not just because something snuck through a hole or open door.

Although it isn't rats, we have a constant problem with mice in our house because our very well insulated doors sometimes don't latch properly, and pop open. We had the house mouseproofed, but, as with vampires, if you're inviting them in through the front door, hanging up garlic and crosses doesn't really help .

I've worked in a few commercial kitchens, and rodents are tricky little buggers. However - a visible rat (or mouse) during the hustle and bustle of the workday should definitely be brought to someone's attention - I'd agree that it should be the restaurant and not the Health Department. Maybe you could go through their website and email them.

Have you ever stood on the Belmont El platform after dark and looked down the alley? I swear, somebody should film a horror flick right there; unless the City's Rat Alert squad got to them, they used to be easily the size of large kittens.

All I would do it to remove the payment from my wallet, drop it on the table, and exit. IMMEDIATELY.

jlawrence01 wrote:All I would do it to remove the payment from my wallet, drop it on the table, and exit. IMMEDIATELY.

Me, too.

Cynthia wrote:Don't go to the Health Department first. Some place that is totally innocent, such as the example of the busperson leaving a door open, could be shut down. Only go to the Health Dept. if no one cares, or if you find out the kitchen is disgusting.

A complaint to the Health Department is fair game. The way I figure it, I'm in no position to make a determination either way as to whether its an isolated incident, or a result of a filthy kitchen or repeated carelessness. Let the Health Dept do its investigation, as our taxpayers dollars support them to do.

FWIW, I recall a certain eating establishment in Bucktown whose back door -- the kitchen door -- abutted one of those really old Chicago alleys. I would park my car down there and take the train into work. On rainy nights, I would hold my breath as I approached my car because of the abundance of rats. But yet, the kitchen staff would leave its door wide open! A lot of people I know loved this place, but no way would I eat there. How many rats were scurrying in and out?

David,

In my experience most places have rats, or at least some sort of rodent or insect issue. However, if these pests have become SO conditioned to having humans around that they show themselves during business hours it is a problem. This would tell me that the problem has been persisting for a while without any control measures. So, first I'd mention the problem to management. Depending on their response I'd consider speaking with the Health Dept. Or, you could call the news like the folks in NY.

Flip

OK. I have to admit that I **HATE** rats. But I do have a good rat story.

Twenty years ago, I worked at a large medical center in a large southern city. The hospital was built on the site of a Civil War era garbage dump. Rats were well established in the facility.

They built a new hospital so they could consolidate four older hospitals into a single buildings. All the buildings were connected so the rats moved quickly into the new facility. The administration refused to do anything about the infestation.

I ran the cafeteria and opened the kitchen at 4:30 AM every morning. As soon as the lights went on, the mice headed back into the walls.

One morning, I was walking through the cafeteria and a rat the size of a small dog ran by. Instinctively, I hopped on a table and scream. In the vending area, there were six heart transplant patients laughing their butts. "Scared of a little rat??"

I lasted about three months in that hole. I would not eat the food there, no way.

-Not to spoil anyone's supper, but many people would be surprised at the name and number of restaurants that have had rat problems. Reporting it to the manager is a kind response in the sense that the health dept. may well shut them down. Pest control companies are often slightly better than useless in these cases-and getting rid of rats can be maddeningly difficult. One of the many factors that make the restaurant business so glamorous and attractive...

stewed coot wrote:-Not to spoil anyone's supper, but many people would be surprised at the name and number of restaurants that have had rat problems. Reporting it to the manager is a kind response in the sense that the health dept. may well shut them down. Pest control companies are often slightly better than useless in these cases-and getting rid of rats can be maddeningly difficult. One of the many factors that make the restaurant business so glamorous and attractive...

I don't think many here would be all that surprised. It's normal in any urban area.

Out here in the burbs, though, I'd be more surprised unless the restaurants were part of a mall, with connecting throughways. Otherwise the stand alone place usually just get the mice in the late fall when the weather turns cold.

At least that's been my experience.

Flip

In a moment of amazing coincidences, I was visiting an elderly friend today whose Father is the little boy in this photo:



Enjoy!

Regards,

...then there's always this; perhaps a lovely gift for the rat-infested restaurant's manager?


http://www.artprostitutestore.com/produ ... t=3&page=4

fyi: a pretty incredible, affordable work of art in it's own right...when I purchased mine from CHG himself a looooong time ago it catalyzed an epistolary correspondence involving artisan postcards(now lovingly, archivally preserved)...sigh...those were the days...

"I'm gonna fix that rat, that's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna fix that rat"

wow.

as a restaurant professional, i'm fairly stunned by the apparent acceptance, albeit reluctant, of rats in restaurants.

lemme tell you, i've worked in dozens of kitchens and it's simply not that hard to eliminate rats. routine extermination visits. judicious application of caulk, silicone, and gap and crevice sealer, and....most importantly....frequent use of soap and water in your kitchen.

seriously, folks, if you see a rat IN THE RESTAURANT, that restaurant is not clean. they are doing a very poor job of cleaning and maintaining their establishment. if they don't care all that much about their kitchen, how much do you think they'll care about the food they're preparing for you?

in my opinion, a rat sighting merits an alarmed conversation with the manager. if the manager doesn't also seem alarmed and concerned, i'd notify the health department. don't think of it as "ratting out" (no pun intended) the restaurant, think of it as a public service. that's truly what it is.

there are many, many restaurant owners that simply will not take action and spend money unless they are threatened with citations and/or being shut down by the health department. i know this first hand--i worked for one who wouldn't let me spend the money to fight the problem.

when you see rats in these establishments and say nothing, you are just making it easier for these unscrupulous restaurant owners to maintain an environment in which the health of their employee and customers is endangered.

elakin wrote:wow. as a restaurant professional, i'm fairly stunned by the apparent acceptance, albeit reluctant, of rats in restaurants.

Thank you for posting. After reading with growing astonishment the subsequent replies, I was beginning to wonder whether I was imagining some of the comments.

I take direct issue, however, with only one line of thought: that one sighting/report of a rat will close a restaurant down. Read the Health Code. That's simply not what it says. If the owner isn't willing to do what it takes to keep the rats out, the place should be shut down--in my opinion. Yes, it's a pain in the ass; yes, it's expensive; yes, it's ongoing. But considering that the alternative is rats in the kitchen, I don't see how it's not essential.

I don't want to appear like I'm displaying acceptance of rats in foodservice locations. Customers should be concerned and alert whoever they see fit-beit management or H.D.
The reality is, as noted above, in the urban setting rats are a part of life. With all due respect, soap and water, while obviously a necessary combo for any restaurant, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. Rats are seeking food, not dirt. They will enter spotless kitchens, unfazed by Mr. Clean.
I would be very interested in what exterminator service is effective-tried them all-same story. My experience has been-once you have rats, the customer is, for the most part on their own after a few traps are set, and they point out where they think the entrance is.
Of course everything must be done until the rats are caught, but this is not necessarily easy. Rats are smart and resourceful, often laugh at the traps, and can chew through most anything. Making food storage rat-proof alone can be an issue, and it is amazing what they will eat. The physical space of the restaurant and the basement can be daunting factors.
Again, it is the restaurant's responsibility, and I'm happy that some have found it "not that hard", but that ain't necessarily the case. Maybe I've just been in some tough physical spaces, and have encountered Einsteinish rats...

Rat infestation can be a problem. However, there are a LOT of things that an operator can do to control rats. One obvious one is to keep the DOORS closed along the back dock (a health department regulation in most municipalities). Another is an aggressive campaign to control the overall rat population in the area.

In many cases, the operators have not done much to control the population and have not been storing garbage properly.

When I worked at a certain large Manhattan hospital, they had two guys completely dedicated to rat/mouse/roach control. They even set traps for roaches to measure the number of roaches in the kitchen and kept track of the process. It was rather bizarre watching a guy crawl underneath the pot sink and then counting the roaches he located. But it worked.

There was an OpEd in today's NY Times about rats in restaurants: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/opinion/16shaw.html

(Free registration may be required to view the article.)

With all due respect, soap and water, while obviously a necessary combo for any restaurant, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. Rats are seeking food, not dirt. They will enter spotless kitchens, unfazed by Mr. Clean.

with all due respect, when you're in a restaurant kitchen, what looks like dirt to you is food to a rat. they may enter spotless kitchens, but if the kitchen is CLEAN and all the food is properly stored, the rats won't find anything to eat and they'll go elsewhere.

Flip wrote:David,

In my experience most places have rats, or at least some sort of rodent or insect issue. However, if these pests have become SO conditioned to having humans around that they show themselves during business hours it is a problem. This would tell me that the problem has been persisting for a while without any control measures. So, first I'd mention the problem to management. Depending on their response I'd consider speaking with the Health Dept. Or, you could call the news like the folks in NY.

Flip

That's my impression.
If they are out and about at 10:00, I would want the health department to know.

One additonal matter:As with anything in Chicago, it might actually be better to call the Alderman rather than the health dept. If the problem is an infested ally rather than a dirty place, then the alderman would be better able to take care of the issue.
Also, if the alderman is competent then the alderman will be able to take care of the problem whether it is limited to one place or extends further.

How about this one:

You're taking a picture at a restaurant - actually just outside a restaurant, since the only restroom is around the back on the exterior, like a gas station, and the toilet is literally overflowing with ICE since the door has been left open all day - and an ambassador vermin scuttles directly into your frame, as if posing. You snap the shot, and you have taken a clear photograph of the pest in a less than picturesque setting.

Aside from sending to the correct alderman / health authority, I'm assuming such evidence is not postable / nameable, correct?

Maybe not, but it is PM-able......

Santander wrote:I'm assuming such evidence is not postable / nameable, correct?

While I can in no way speak for this board or its moderators, I don't understand why a valid, factually true matter is neither postable nor nameable. (It seems akin to the rules re posting about restaurant inspections and/or closures. So long as there is a link to an official website verifying or stating the facts....) I can understand and sympathize (and even agree) with the moderators wishing to avoid any potential problems and banning it, but I don't see why--since you have documentary proof--it shouldn't be both (in theory).

Oh, and yeah, what Liz in Norwood Park said: ditto.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

Santander wrote:I'm assuming such evidence is not postable / nameable, correct?

While I can in no way speak for this board or its moderators, I don't understand why a valid, factually true matter is neither postable nor nameable.

One word: Photoshop.

(Not that I'm suggesting that's the case here, of course.)

I can only assume that photos that are a part of the health department's public record (if the health department does, indeed, keep photos as a matter of public record) would be another story.

Dmnkly wrote:One word: Photoshop.

You're right, of course. But I would like to think that "valid, factually true" excludes that kind of hanky-panky.

I have a story on the flip side of this problem, which I've been meaning to post as support of LTH's policy. I found a restaurant I wanted to try that isn't mentioned here, so I did some websurfing. My next several hits come up with a blog that I know and don't trust - they "documented" takeout with a rusty nail in it. Now I am stuck on the proverbial horns of a dilemma: I don't trust this blog, I don't like these bloggers - but much as I doubt the veracity of this story, I don't want delivery from a place so accused without at least seeing said kitchen. Restaurant loses (though I plan to go eat in at some point in the near future, just to clear my conscience.)

Of course, I do trust Santander - but there's all kinds of context missing from a picture, or even a description. I'd hate to open the floodgates to posters like the ones Dom mentioned. I vote for not posting - even if the rat is really cute.

Case in point:



NOTE: THIS IS A PHOTOSHOPPED IMAGE FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY!

(Quick and dirty five minute job by a rank amateur, BTW)

Hi,

Since photoshop was suggested. May I remind you photoshop allows one to edit out and as edit in details, which may not have been in the original photo.

You may also want to consider reference "Posting Guidelines":

- *Some types of posts have legal implications for you and the site. Please refrain from accusations of criminal activity, health code violations, or other wrongdoing. If your complaint is serious and provable, please take it to the proper authorities. Further, we find reports of restaurant and purveyor violations or closures, regardless of the circumstances, to be an area ripe for competitor abuse. We will remove these posts unless substantiated with a published source, e.g. a link to a quality published account.

Your photographic evidence is best sent to the Health Department, which LTHforum is not.

Regards,

Dmnkly wrote:Case in point:

Photoshop? Photoshop??

[Sputter][Double sputter!!]

But...but...I was there! I saw it!

(Didn't I?)