riddlemay wrote:You need some of us "just wanting something good to eat and in the mood for Q" types, too.)

Riddlemay,

Absolutely, that's why there are BBQ chains like Red Hot and Blue, Famous Dave's etc, that will have all the forgettable BBQ on hand you might want. While I find Smoque a step above Fat Willy's it's the same general style of BBQ and I doubt Fat Willy's is running out of BBQ.

Though if you are in shooting range of Fat Willy's, I see no reason not to go to Honey 1 BBQ.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:Absolutely, that's why there are BBQ chains like Red Hot and Blue, Famous Dave's etc, that will have all the forgettable BBQ on hand you might want.

Right, but the object would be superior food, not forgettable, that you can actually eat (rather than just imagine from reading about).

I'm sure Smoque would like to figure out how to do this. If they ever do, they'll really have something.

in the interests of sparing this forum another (new) endless 'smoque' thread, allow me to digress abit and vent my only concern....

why isn't there a chimney on their rooftop???

southern pride smoker technology?

epa regulatory considerations?

or.. is chicago incapable of producing 'real' barbeque?

don't get me wrong, smoque puts out some damn fine meat products, along with some mighty tasty sides.

barry sorkin has now found himself in the unique position of (quite possibly) becoming the next ray croc.


as for this thread - anyone who truly appreciates a meal that celebrates meat... will let their gripes die (along with the eventual death of the recent publicity hubbub), that is driving their discontent.

just remember - smoque is only four months old now....give 'em a little bit more time, to make you happy.

jellobee wrote:in the interests of sparing this forum another (new) endless 'smoque' thread, allow me to digress abit and vent my only concern....

why isn't there a chimney on their rooftop???

southern pride smoker technology?

Smoque's BBQ technology is covered on the first page of the other Smoque thread.

Best,
Michael

HI,

No Chimney? Ever heard of an air scrubber?

If you had a business in the Chicago residential area with a steady of stream of hickory smoke bathing the area. People will accuse you of forcing them into home confinment to avoid the smoke. Others will claim their nest is contaminated with the smoke odor. Some will accuse you of aggravating their asthma. The gripes could go on and on, followed by visits by the Chicago Environmental Protection Agency.

Jim's Original and Maxwell St. Express, on the frontage road to the Dan Ryan off Roosevelt, both have air scrubbers. You could smell their onions cooking all the time, now there is no longer the distinctive smell. The air scrubbers were obligated on them to not offend the new neighbors.

In urban areas of Chicago, you won't find the rustic smells of BBQ or onions without someone complaining.

Regards,

yes...i've heard of 'scrubbers'.

i've also heard of garret's winning their court battle over popcorn odor wafting thru downtown office buildings...

and also of a 'new yawk' situation where the propietor of a proposed b-b-que establishment. who was forced to build a chimney, scores of stories up to alleviate manhattanite's (urban) concerns.

c'mon now... 'scrubber' technology hasn't really evolved that much beyond keeping a book of matches atop toilet yer toilet tank...

it ain't real barbeque, if there isn't any 'smoke' to be had, whether it's noticeable inside the establishment or without.


by the by...i could've went so far as to ask - where's the 'logpile'?

HI,

Another BBQ establishment well known on this board had neighbor complaints. Had daily visits by the Chicago EPA. Eventually installed an air scrubber to end the problem.

Air scrubbers, and likely other technology, sure did work miracles in Gary, Indiana. I remember as a kid being asleep in the car and knowing precisely where I was by the odor.

I've seen wood at Honey 1. Only been to Smoque once with non-LTH friends, so I didn't spend lots of time inspecting the place. Why not ask Smoque themselves? (Months ago they were great in interacting with customers, I don't know if they have time today with all this activity)

Regards,

jellobee wrote:by the by...i could've went so far as to ask - where's the 'logpile'?

That's why so many of us prefer Honey 1 or Uncle John's. The problem is, their menu is limited, so if you want something other than ribs, tips or links (or, chicken), you've got to go to Smoque or it's ilk if you don't want to cook it yourself.

I really want to try Smoque and I've heard and read almost nothing but good things about their food, from those who've had the good fortune to have tried it. Reports indicate that the pulled pork and the brisket are both excellent. That fact that one place turns out both products so well is noteworthy in and of itself. One of these days, I'll be in that neighborhood at the right time and swoop in.

And while I can understand the positive implications of running out of food on a regular basis, as a business person, my gut instinct is that if this is happening before dinner time on a Saturday, the business plan needs some revision. I do think, as was posted above, that such a regular occurence is only going to be seen as a positive by a small percentage of prospective customers. That isn't to say that a market cannot be trained to understand why this is an innately positive part of the picture but that will take some time.

In the meantime, if I had 'money on the table' at Smoque, I'd be doing everything I possibly could to make plans to cover the additional business before someone else does. And my guess is that they are probably trying to address the situation. Producing excellent BBQ, while a somewhat arcane art, isn't exactly rocket science. I'm sure that several folks who post regularly here in these forums have the expertise to produce outstanding BBQ or at least consult a group of investors on how to do so. And the other barriers to entry are not particularly daunting. I think that the Smoque folk need to strike while the iron's hot or they very well could risk losing out on an excellent opportunity; one which they seem to have created for themselves.

OTOH, if others jump in and try to capitalize on the wave that Smoque has created, it may ultimately lead to a better market situation for those of us who crave good Q.

=R=

jellobee wrote:or.. is chicago incapable of producing 'real' barbeque?

Jellobee,

Capable of real BBQ, absolutely, my four favorites are Honey One, Uncle John's, Lem's and Barbara Ann's . [url=http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=97096]

Another Honey One thread [/url]

Short bios and pictures of all four may be found here.

Enjoy,
Gary

I second the vote for Honey 1, adding that I was there last night at 8 (the prime dinner hour) and saw exactly one table of customers in the restaurant. This is by no means a statement on the quality of the food (some of the best BBQ I've ever had), but you won't have trouble getting meat or a table even at the Saturday night dinner rush.

Yeah... not that I have anything against Smoque. I certainly don't. But it pains me to see them running out of meat before dinner while Honey 1 seems borderline deserted every time I walk in.

On the other hand, a lot of folks do takeout from Honey 1. We do because we want to have vegetables with our meal

Anna Z. Sobor wrote:I've been following the Smoque discussion since the place opened. We live one block away in Old Irving Park, and our neighborhood group, Old Irving Park Assn., worked with Barry to help make the place a reality. Smoque has been advertising in our community newsletter, and is bending over backwards to be considerate of the neighbors. My 14 year old son is already a groupie, and is eating his way through his savings.

I think one of the things about this place, I don't think mentioned so far, is that besides the very tasty food, Barry and his pals are great hosts. Their hospitality really added to my experience there, and made me want to return.

ronnie_suburban wrote:And while I can understand the positive implications of running out of food on a regular basis, as a business person, my gut instinct is that if this is happening before dinner time on a Saturday, the business plan needs some revision.

Ronnie,

I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say they ran out of meat temporarily between a larger than expected lunch rush and the time that the next batch of meat was coming off the smoker. I doubt that they'd be so off in their calculations as to completely run out of food before a Saturday dinner rush.

stevez wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:And while I can understand the positive implications of running out of food on a regular basis, as a business person, my gut instinct is that if this is happening before dinner time on a Saturday, the business plan needs some revision.

Ronnie,

I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say they ran out of meat temporarily between a larger than expected lunch rush and the time that the next batch of meat was coming off the smoker. I doubt that they'd be so off in their calculations as to completely run out of food before a Saturday dinner rush.

I'd hope not. But my main point is that there is opportunity here and hopefully, however it is siezed upon will benefit those of us who love real BBQ and wish it were more widely (and conveniently) available here in town.

=R=

If Smoque is truly operating at the capacity of their smoker, the only things they can logically do to address the "problem" of their success are buy a second smoker (if they have the room and the capital), open a second location or cook when closed and hold the product (which nobody wants). The biggest single investment for a barbecue restaurant is, not surprisingly, the smoker and the associated fittings and infrastructure. I am sure that the owners of Smoque had no idea they would reach capacity so quickly. I am also sure they are cooking fewer ribs and more brisket than they had originally planned. The good thing about focusing on pork shoulder and brisket is you can fit more of it in the smoker (plus Southern Pride smokers are much better at cooking big pieces of meat than ribs). The drawback is that it takes longer to cook. I am not sure which SP model Smoque is using, but I would guess it has a capacity of 400-500 lbs. of brisket and butt or about half as many ribs. That is alot of sandwiches they are selling. I am sure there are many restaurant owners that pray to have Smoque's problems.

d4v3 wrote:I am sure there are many restaurant owners that pray to have Smoque's problems.

Yes, those are first-class problems.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Producing excellent BBQ, while a somewhat arcane art, isn't exactly rocket science. I'm sure that several folks who post regularly here in these forums have the expertise to produce outstanding BBQ or at least consult a group of investors on how to do so.=R=

Producing excellent 'Que for the family or even an occasional family gathering is quite different from producing excellent Barbeque that must feed hundreds and perhaps thousands of people every day.

The problem at Smoque is not necessarily that they need a new business model, but rather they are so far ahead of schedule in their existing model that they are struggling to keep up. In speaking with Barry Sorkin, I can tell you that they had no idea the business would take off the way it has. Due in part to the discussions here at LTH, the wide, immediate, and unexpected media coverage they have recieved, and the general need for a real live Greasehouse on the northwest side, Smoque has quickly prospered in a business that experiences an 85-90% failure rate before the end of the first year of existence.

This could also explain their struggles to keep up. When you have a failure rate that high, you tend to proceed cautiously as you make your way in the early going. Even with unmitigated success you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was in there a few weeks ago; a week night, around 6:00pm and the joint was practically deserted. There's no way to plan for any given night in the restaurant biz. And with Barbecue in particular, you need to time it just right otherwise you've got a whole bunch of cow and pig that is ready to be served sitting for a very long time in the steam table.

These are not dumb guys. I have faith that they will find the balance they need so that they've got plenty of food on hand when the crowds do show up, or an affordable back up plan that doesn't waste too much food and still maintains their high quality standard if they don't.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Producing excellent BBQ, while a somewhat arcane art, isn't exactly rocket science. I'm sure that several folks who post regularly here in these forums have the expertise to produce outstanding BBQ or at least consult a group of investors on how to do so.=R=

Producing excellent 'Que for the family or even an occasional family gathering is quite different from producing excellent Barbeque that must feed hundreds and perhaps thousands of people every day.

Definitely a good point. Still I stand by my contention that there are at least a few here who could conquer this, but admittedly, this isn't a typical group of people either.

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:The problem at Smoque is not necessarily that they need a new business model, but rather they are so far ahead of schedule in their existing model that they are struggling to keep up. In speaking with Barry Sorkin, I can tell you that they had no idea the business would take off the way it has. Due in part to the discussions here at LTH, the wide, immediate, and unexpected media coverage they have recieved, and the general need for a real live Greasehouse on the northwest side, Smoque has quickly prospered in a business that experiences an 85-90% failure rate before the end of the first year of existence.

Agreed. It appears that they just need to tweak things. It seems like the hardest parts of their launch have been accomplished with aplomb.

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:This could also explain their struggles to keep up. When you have a failure rate that high, you tend to proceed cautiously as you make your way in the early going. Even with unmitigated success you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was in there a few weeks ago; a week night, around 6:00pm and the joint was practically deserted. There's no way to plan for any given night in the restaurant biz. And with Barbecue in particular, you need to time it just right otherwise you've got a whole bunch of cow and pig that is ready to be served sitting for a very long time in the steam table.

One absolutely cannot blame them for the cautious approach they took. And in all fairness, the urgency of their problems may feel a bit higher here in the forums that it is in reality.

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:These are not dumb guys. I have faith that they will find the balance they need so that they've got plenty of food on hand when the crowds do show up, or an affordable back up plan that doesn't waste too much food and still maintains their high quality standard if they don't.

They've already gone farther down this road than most around here have and they've shown that they are more than competent. And my 'business' take on the matter may be of zero importance to them. It's just that if it were my money and I were in their situation, I'd probably be panicking just a bit. But again, that's just me. In either case, it'll be interesting to see how this situation evolves from here.

=R=

Dmnkly wrote:Yeah... not that I have anything against Smoque. I certainly don't. But it pains me to see them running out of meat before dinner while Honey 1 seems borderline deserted every time I walk in.

I've never been to Smoque, so I don't have a horse in this race, but I'll be happy to tell you what pains me, Dom.

What pains me is that some folks here cannot seem to accept the fact that there are others of us who don't particularly care for the product at Honey 1.

E.M.

ronnie_suburban wrote: But my main point is that there is opportunity here and hopefully, however it is siezed upon will benefit those of us who love real BBQ and wish it were more widely (and conveniently) available here in town.

If only Robert Adams was a better businessmen...oh well...one can dream.

Erik M. wrote:What pains me is that some folks here cannot seem to accept the fact that there are others of us who don't particularly care for the product at Honey 1.

Erik,

Not me, at least not in relation to you, or others who understand that Honey One's BBQ is a particular style, a style they do very well. One might not like that style, perfectly understandable. What irks me just a wee bit is those who offhandedly discount Honey One's BBQ because it's not the type they are familiar with.

Enjoy,
Gary

Erik M. wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:Yeah... not that I have anything against Smoque. I certainly don't. But it pains me to see them running out of meat before dinner while Honey 1 seems borderline deserted every time I walk in.

What pains me is that some folks here cannot seem to accept the fact that there are others of us who don't particularly care for the product at Honey 1

Oh, don't misunderstand. Though I know some are, I'm not of the mind that Honey 1 is the clearly superior 'cue and there's some travesty of justice going on. My tastes (uneducated ones on this subject, at that) tend towards Honey 1's offerings, but I like 'em both for different reasons. It's just that when you have what I think are two great BBQ establishments that are both in the same general area of the city, I hate to see one with a surplus of customers while the other always seems so empty. Plus, if Honey 1 is as quiet as they've seemed the last few times I've been in there, it isn't as though they didn't have their chance... it sounds like the Check Please rush was pretty substantial.

stevez wrote:Ronnie,

I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say they ran out of meat temporarily between a larger than expected lunch rush and the time that the next batch of meat was coming off the smoker. I doubt that they'd be so off in their calculations as to completely run out of food before a Saturday dinner rush.

I considered this after I hung up. However, I called at 4:45 and told the guy I wanted to pick-up at 5:45. He went in back to check on the supply.
If there was going to be any replenishments coming out anytime around or shortly after 6, I think he would have told me.

I should add that I posted about this as a point of information. I don't share others reaction that this will be a serious long-term negative for Smoque. To quote Will Farrell "they're so hot right now." Things will surely die down soon enough, and it would be unwise (IMO) for Smoque to make any serious investments or major changes in reaction to a temporary surge that is outstripping their capacity.

Also, I wanted brisket and Pork by the pound which is why Honey 1 wasn't a great backup plan. Sadly, we opted for Calvin's whose pork is pretty decent, but our first experience with their so-called "brisket" was quite bad, as I will now post in the Calvin's thread.

steve_z wrote:

If only Robert Adams was a better businessmen...oh well...one can dream.

This is probably the most profound statement in this thread.

Robert's spareribs have a depth of flavor to them that surpasses anything that I have had at Smoque, HOWEVER , in the whole scheme of things that alone is not enough. With his talent, I can only imagine how well he could produce brisket ( and refine his chintzy pulled pork offering ).

'Northside' barbeque is not spares/tips/links. It must be focused on babybacks(sorry to the purists) /brisket/ shoulder and YES---better side dishes.

cito wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

If only Robert Adams was a better businessmen...oh well...one can dream.

This is probably the most profound statement in this thread.

Robert's spareribs have a depth of flavor to them that surpasses anything that I have had at Smoque, HOWEVER , in the whole scheme of things that alone is not enough. With his talent, I can only imagine how well he could produce brisket ( and refine his chintzy pulled pork offering ).

'Northside' barbeque is not spares/tips/links. It must be focused on babybacks(sorry to the purists) /brisket/ shoulder and YES---better side dishes.

Actually, for the record, the above quote was made by stevez.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Actually, for the record, the above quote was made by stevez.

Corrected---My apologies.

cito wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Actually, for the record, the above quote was made by stevez.

Corrected---My apologies.

No worries.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:OTOH, if others jump in and try to capitalize on the wave that Smoque has created, it may ultimately lead to a better market situation for those of us who crave good Q.

It sounds like in this thread that someone is doing exactly that.