Not being a rabbi, I don't know if it's kosher. But from a brewing standpoint, it sounds okay. At this point, unless you had a very quick first fermentation (unlikely) I'd try to get some more yeast - any yeast - in there as soon as possible. If you don't have any brewing yeast, you could even throw in some bread yeast, but you'd be best off to get some bubbling going soon.

What about this idea:

What if I take a sterilized strainer and grab all the yeast off the top and activate it and then throw it back in. Is this a bad idea?

Yes, messing with dead yeast some more is a bad idea. Even if some are alive, you're just finding new ways to contaminate your wort.

As soon as they're open, go to a busy homebrew store. Tell them you need a liquid yeast that's compatible with this beer and that they just got in stock. If it was delivered recently and is lively, you should be able to pop the vessel inside the package as soon as you've paid for it (you might ask them to show you how, it's tricky and you might be unsure if you've done it, especially if you actually haven't) and have a suitable culture by evening.

Shake it up good, leave it out at room temp, and it could be as tight as a drum as little as 8-12 hours later. As soon as it is that tight, pour that good healthy new yeast in there and you should be fine. That's the fastest way I know to get a decent quantity of no-doubts-it's-active culture into your wort.

Mike's idea is good, but if you can get White Labs yeast, you don't have to wait for the smak-pack - you can pour it right in.

Guys -

Thanks for the great info. One question, does the wort go bad after a certain amount of time without having any yeast?

In addition, will the beer take on a weird taste from too much yeast? Or does the initial yeast we dropped in (providing it did not fire) kind of fall to the wayside?

Finally, is it ok to take the lid off the top of the bucket to take a look?

Thanks for your help!

Binko wrote:I've never worked with dry yeasts, so I don't know if a starter is required or not.

Just to address this point, a starter isn't going to hurt, but as I understand it, a dry yeast packet generally has more cells than a package of liquid yeast does, so a starter shouldn't be necessary, just rehydration in some water that's been boiled and then cooled to pitching temperature.

What if I boiled maybe a small amount of water and tossed it on top?

If I try to pull the yeast out of the wort at this point, don't I run the high risk of contamination?

It's almost impossible to have too much yeast. But, yes, the wort can go bad. It's a sugary liquid, and all sorts of microorganisms love it (especially lactobacillus and pediococcus). The idea is to get a lot of yeast going quickly and crowd out any other guys.

Yeah, if you want to take off the top and have a look, go for it. I'm not sure what it'll tell you, though.

One other thought - I assume you sanitized the fermenter - did you wash it thoroughly afterwards? If there was still some chlorine or other stuff in there, that could be a yeast-killer. (The good news is, if that's the case, then other nasties won't take hold, either; the choline will dissipate and you have a longer window to try re-pitching.)

Here's an interesting yeast FAQ:
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_FAQ.html

nr706 -

We did our sanitizing in the bucket itself and did not wash it out afterwards as the guy at the stor was very specific about not washing out after. INstead just dump it out.

BY the time I would be able to drive to Perfectbrewing tomorrow and get back here to throw some in it would be mid afternoon, is that too late if we initially put it in there on Sunday?

What did you use to sanitize?

A product called: B-T-F

Maybe 2.5 cap fulls for 5 gallons.

This is the stuff:
http://www.servu-online.com/Bar-Equipme ... itizer.asp

That typically doesn't require a rinse (I've never used it - I always use a very dilute solution of good 'ol fashioned chlorine bleach) unless there's too much left in the bucket. If there was too much, it might explain the dead yeast.

Again, I'd suggest getting some yeast - any yeast - in there ASAP to get things going.

Good luck!

jpeac2 wrote:In addition, will the beer take on a weird taste from too much yeast? Or does the initial yeast we dropped in (providing it did not fire) kind of fall to the wayside?

To expand on what's been said, it's rather difficult to have too much yeast. The yeast reproduces and multiplies substantially during the fermentation. When you finally get a fermentation going, you will know what I mean when you see all the yeast that settles on the bottom when you rack to your secondary or bottles. You can even reuse this yeast, but I don't bother, since I don't completely trust myself to keep the yeast alive and uncontaminated. I'd rather have the peace of mind of pitching a fresh vial of White Labs.

To be perfectly honest, if this happened to me, I would just start over. I know it's going to be an extra $30-$40 or so, but the lack of fermentation and the unusually low SG has me a bit worried. I want your first brew to be good.

Others may disagree, but I think there's just too much possibility for disaster at this point. I'd buy another kit, use a White Labs yeast and forget the dry yeast. I would also add an extra 2 lbs of dry malt extract. If the malt extract is hopped (I assume it is), I would also add some fresh hops to the boil to balance the extra malt. This is exactly what the guy at Bev-Art had me do on my first brew (oh, and he also had me steep some crystal malt). It's only a couple of extra steps and ingredients, but it doesn't make the brewing any more difficult, but will reward you in much better flavor.

Just my thoughts.

Well, I went to visit the guys at Perfect Brewing today and they were very helpful and we came to the conclusion that the initial yeast must have been bad. So, bought a new packet and tossed it in. We shall see!

Despite what they said, I'm still betting it was over-use/non-rinsing of the sanitizer. For dry yeast to be completely dead - that's highly unlikely.

Well, added the new packet of dry yeast last night around 5:20 PM. Initially we had some bubbles, like right after I capped.

But this morning I came down to check and no bubbles, I also noticed that the temp had fallen to the 66-68 range. So I moved to a warmer location and am now on target for temperature.



And.. .Have no fear because we bought another kit for this weekend: ober-easy!

So then it's possible you had a very fast initial fermentation. Siphon it off to the secondary until the yeast drops out and it's relatively clear, fine it, then prime, bottle and, a few weeks later, drink!

Well I will say this. When I first put it in yesterday it was bubbling, but as of about 5 hours later there was nothing.

If you have a tall skinny glass, take another gravity reading. If any fermentation took place, the new reading (FG) will be lower than the Original Gravity (OG). Be careful not to contaminate the beer when you take the sample.

The formula for calculating Alcohol by Weight is:
ABW = 76.08(OG-FG)/(1.775-OG)

Hmm. If we do that, how should we trasnfer to fermented wort (don't know the proper name for it) to the glass?

I usually do this in the process of siphoning the beer from the primary fermenter to the secondary. In your case, I would just sterilize a small measuring cup and carefully dip it in the wort (if any fermentation took place, you can start calling it beer). I suppose you could also use a sterile turkey baster to draw up the wort.

Here's how I do that: take hydrometer. Tie string on it tightly. Disinfect and rinse. Lower it into wort and secure string with plug. Leave it in there the whole time you're fermenting.

Mike G -

Wouldn't I run into an issue if the beer had not actually fermented by having it in the smaller carboy?



ALso, is it possible that when I put the yeast in yesterday that it was active at first but was killed due to some weird reason?

jpeac2 wrote:ALso, is it possible that when I put the yeast in yesterday that it was active at first but was killed due to some weird reason?

Possible, but not likely. It is pretty hard to kill yeast without heating it up or zapping it with a disinfectant. Usually, it just becomes dormant after it runs out of food, or the temperature drops too low. That is why you can bottle condition beer. You add some priming sugar, and the yeast wakes up and starts eating.

I have had really old yeast take time to kick in before. I did the same as you, and added an additional dose. Then the original yeast kicked in also. I had a really active but very brief fermentation. The specific gravity will tell you what happened. If no fermentation took place in the bucket, it might be time to start over.

ALso, is it possible that when I put the yeast in yesterday that it was active at first but was killed due to some weird reason?

What, like Bob Crane?

Frankly, I don't know what the hell's going on with your beer, but if it's ever going to ferment, it seems to be doing it. Take the measurements, if the specific gravity never changes it's just not happening and you've got a big bucket of death-wort, if it changes you'll wind up with, probably, weak beer. Make more this weekend, pitch a starter from liquid yeast to give yourself the best chance and make sure there's no sterilizer residue just in case that's what it was.

Mike G wrote:Here's how I do that: take hydrometer. Tie string on it tightly. Disinfect and rinse. Lower it into wort and secure string with plug. Leave it in there the whole time you're fermenting.

Another solution is what I do: drill a hole into the plastic bucket about halfway up the bucket. Screw in a plastic spigot (like the one that's probably on the bottom of your bucket). Voila. You can take samples now anytime during the brewing process now.

Binko wrote:

Mike G wrote:Here's how I do that: take hydrometer. Tie string on it tightly. Disinfect and rinse. Lower it into wort and secure string with plug. Leave it in there the whole time you're fermenting.

Another solution is what I do: drill a hole into the plastic bucket about halfway up the bucket. Screw in a plastic spigot (like the one that's probably on the bottom of your bucket). Voila. You can take samples now anytime during the brewing process now.

Binko,

I don't disagree with your ingenuity for developing this system, but I would be weary of attempting this myself. I've never used the spigot on the bucket. I feel that the internal parts are too difficult to sanitize properly. Have you had any issues with this?

Flip

I've never noticed any problems myself. I think I must have borrowed the idea from somewhere else, though I don't know where. When I sanitize, I just make sure to run sanitizer through both of the spigots, give it a good rinse, and no problems.

All -

I have glorious news. After a couple days fo sever doubt and borderline first-time brew depression, we took a hydrometer reading tonight and low and behold, guess who has some BEEER!!

Thats right kids, we will be transferring to the secondary this weekend!

Ah yes. Into the carboy for the secondary. Tasted it and it even tasted pretty decent.

Tomorrow we are going to be doing "Ober-Easy" from Perfect brewing. A Oberon Clone.

SHould be ready to drink right as it is getting crazy warm outside.