what is a foodie?

(or how i gained twenty pounds in the last two years and somehow came to 'love it'.)

* a quest to endeavour... a conjoinment of earth's good bounty, and mankind's creative spirit?

* aself induced, endorphin release... designed to administer remedy to a wounded psyche ?

* or just a celebration of simple gluttony???


since finding a cathartic release here, i'll lay out my history...

a friendship with an eastern european ww2 vet, telling me tales of cannibalizing his fallen comrades on the eastern front...

to early life recollections (somehow prescient) of today's food trends - tableside (re)platings of my maw's mashed potatoes, greens and some form of gristly/fatty meat, in a vain effort to make it more palatable to my five year old gullet...

to my present day recognition of a personal 'affliction....

i've now entered a statistical table of America's clinically obese.


c'mawn folk....western civilization's (last) great zeiltgeist has now been breeched/broached here on LTH...

let some ripostes rip, here!

I don't think this is the point of your question, but since some of us got into this discussion at the Indonesian Dinner on Saturday...

I don't care for the term foodie. To me it has mostly negative connotations along the lines of "yuppie." I think I developed this bias when I read Trillin's Feeding a Yen... the following comes from his chapter which is mostly about Chowhound.com:

Calvin Trillin wrote:[A recently discovered restaurant] might become self-conscious from having attracted what Leff refers to with great contempt as "Zagat-clutching foodies"--a foodie being in his lexicon precisely what a chowhound is not.

I read this before I really used the internet much for food information, so I just took these definitions as writ. In any case, I've come to associate a kind of "preciousness" with the term "foodie" that isn't my style and makes me a little unhappy if people refer to me as such. I don't think of myself as a "chowhound" either, since it is a bit too totally affiliated with dedicated users of that site, one of whom I've never been.

I don't think these shades of meaning are necessarily part of common usage, so I don't usually take it as an insult when people do, but I do twinge a little.

germuska wrote: I think I developed this bias when I read Trillin's Feeding a Yen... the following comes from his chapter which is mostly about Chowhound.com:

Calvin Trillin wrote:[A recently discovered restaurant] might become self-conscious from having attracted what Leff refers to with great contempt as "Zagat-clutching foodies"--a foodie being in his lexicon precisely what a chowhound is not.

Joe,

I don't mind the term foodie. Far as Jim Leff and the term foodie goes, I always thought his insistence on foodie having a negative connotation was simply a way to differentiate chowhound. [self edit of mildly negative comments]

Enjoy,
Gary

I tend to agree, that definition of foodie seems to me to work something like this:

Chowhound: when I go to Smoque
Foodie: when you go to Smoque

Allowing that there may be a whiff (or more) of exclusionish snobbery to the attitude behind the anecdote, I don't think that it was meant to stand as a "definition" of foodie.

Perhaps a better way for me to put it is that my primary definition for the term "foodie" may correlate with "snooty-pants dilettante". This is not to say that if you tell me you think of yourself or anyone else as a "foodie," that I will assume you are also an SPD... but I'm not likely to use the word outside of discussions like this...

But I think I've hijacked the original idea of this thread...

I guess I always thought of "foodie" the way I think of the term "Aussie" -- a charming diminutive that sounds more amiable than "food enthusiast" or "Australian." However, a search on the Internet shows that there are several accepted definitions for the term, ranging from snob to enthusiast.

And chowhound has traditionally meant someone who will eat everything in site, regardless. (I think it was the folks at Chowhound who redefined it to mean one who pursues the finest at any level.)

I usually refer to myself as a foodie because it sounds less snobbish than gourmet. I don't know what else to call myself. Culinary enthusiast, perhaps? Or maybe just LTHer -- but that isn't generally understood outside our group. At least when I say I'm a foodie, people get the general idea that I'm interested in food.

And I'm a fourth generation foodie. I didn't know my great grandmother, but I have her well-worn, first edition of the Boston School of Cooking Cookbook. My grandmother had degrees in Food Science and Home Economics and worked for one of Canada's big food companies, developing recipes. My mom was a phenomenal cook. My dad was the grill master and the explorer of any ethnic cuisine he could turn up. (And having grown up among Cubans in Florida and then serving in North Africa during WWII, dad brought a real sense of "try everything" to our dining adventures.) Mom did the stay-at-home thing until we were grown, and then dad bailed out of the corporate world and the two of them started a gourmet food brokerage. So it's just in my blood.

I'm not a foodie because I'm trendy. I'm a foodie because it's what I am.

My objection to the term is largely linguistic and was nicely expressed by um, culinary cartoonist (?) Chris Onstad recently in Salon:

"The first time I ever heard a friend say it, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, my gut twisted, and I felt angry for some reason. Why do we need this fake new word? There are so many words that already describe the concept of people who like food, or enjoy cooking, or enjoy knowing about cooking. "Foodie": It's like the infantile diminutive -- you put a "y" on the end of everything to make it childlike. We don't need it. It's embarrassing. "I'm a foodie." Oh my God."

I hate being called a Foodie. To me, it connotates a sort of effete snobbery to eating. What, because I love food but I'm not a chef you have to give me a label?

I prefer the title of "Fat Kid."

m'th'su wrote:My objection to the term is largely linguistic and was nicely expressed by um, culinary cartoonist (?) Chris Onstad recently in Salon:

"The first time I ever heard a friend say it, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, my gut twisted, and I felt angry for some reason. Why do we need this fake new word? There are so many words that already describe the concept of people who like food, or enjoy cooking, or enjoy knowing about cooking. "Foodie": It's like the infantile diminutive -- you put a "y" on the end of everything to make it childlike. We don't need it. It's embarrassing. "I'm a foodie." Oh my God."

Precisely.

having agreed, tho'...I have good friends who consider themselves "foodies" and while I may take personal issue they can refer to themselves however they choose

I tracked the following origin story down last year and posted it on CH's similar "foodie" thread...and, of course, I've promptly forgotten the correct citation...however:

I believe the term began with one of the major food writers of the early 80's as a derogation of culinary trendoids.

There is a competing story that the term originated around the same period in the Bay Area among Alice Waters and her ilk as way to create community within the burgeoning creative culinary scene.

and, if I get off my butt I'll track down the specifics...in the meantime perhaps someone else knows what I'm on about and can fill in the blanks

To me, a "foodie" is somebody who treats eating as a serious hobby, not just as a means of sustenance, and therefore pays close attentions to the subteties of flavor, preparation, presentation, etc. It does not imply snobbery. However, the context and tone of the person using the word may load the term with those connotations.

Context-free, though, I think a "foodie" is a neutral term, not quite synonymous with gourmet, but in the same general vicinity. ("Gourmet" is a little more high-brow and serious to me than "foodie.")

If you will allow a traditional dictionary definition to help set a standard then:

foodie
Pronunciation: 'fü-dE
Function: noun
: a person having an avid interest in the latest food fads

fad
Pronunciation: 'fad
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
: a practice or interest followed for a time with exaggerated zeal

To me, a "foodie" is somebody who treats eating as a serious hobby, not just as a means of sustenance, and therefore pays close attentions to the subteties of flavor, preparation, presentation, etc. It does not imply snobbery.

I'm pretty sure Joseph Epstein would cite this as an example of reverse snobbery, given the insistence on the gravity of the endeavor. That said, it's been a long time since I've read Epstein, and I can't remember if he discusses food snobbery or foodies specifically. All I remember is that he drives a Jaguar.

"Foodie" is definitely a charged word, most easily grouped with "yuppie" because of the connotations of snobbery (and I do think it's snobbery/reverse snobbery specifically and not just class). I'm all for reclaiming the term to refer merely to enthusiasm and dedication along the lines of groupie, techie, yogi. etc. "Foodie" is simple and playful.

Has Safire written anything recently on the term? In '85, I guess "foodie" wasn't used very commonly:

After eating, an epicure gives a thin smile of satisfaction; a gastronome, burping into his napkin, praises the food in a magazine; a gourmet, repressing his burp, criticizes the food in the same magazine; a gourmand belches happily and tells everybody where he ate; a glutton embraces the white porcelain altar, or, more plainly, he barfs.

If not Safire, perhaps Barbara Wallraff could offer some alternatives?

I vote for being a gourmand then.

I vote for being a gourmand then.

Me, too. I've got to learn how to belch...

happy_stomach wrote:
I'm pretty sure Joseph Epstein would cite this as an example of reverse snobbery, given the insistence on the gravity of the endeavor. That said, it's been a long time since I've read Epstein, and I can't remember if he discusses food snobbery or foodies specifically. All I remember is that he drives a Jaguar.

I'm not exactly sure how reverse snobbery fits into the definition. A foodie can be snobby, or reverse snobby, or not snobby at all, but that's a function of the individual, not the term "foodie." At least to me.

My favorite barometer for this sort of modern usage is not the dictionary, but rather urbandictionary.com. The most popular definition for "foodie" (with 164 thumbs-up votes, and only 24 thumbs down) is:

1. foodie
164 up, 24 down


A person that spends a keen amount of attention and energy on knowing the ingredients of food, the proper preparation of food, and finds great enjoyment in top-notch ingredients and exemplary preparation.
A foodie is not necessarily a food snob, only enjoying delicacies and/or food items difficult to obtain and/or expensive foods; though, that is a variety of foodie.

Because he was a foodie, he liked to collect menus from restaurants which prepared food he enjoyed.

That agrees exactly with the definition as I use it.

That's how I've always understood it. I've known that some use it to mean snob, but but people can use anything to classify you. I remember once someone commenting on my knowing something, and they kind of made me seem like a snob with their comment, "Oh, but then, you read." Well, yeah.

So I read and I'm a foodie. But I'm not a snob. Just well-read and over-fed.

I'm a humanetarian cannibal.

Yes, the e's there on purpose.

Wordnet at Princeton Univ. defines foodie thusly:
epicure: a person devoted to refined sensuous enjoyment (especially good food and drink)

Here's the definition from The Official Foodie Handbook, published in the 1980s: "A person who is very, very, very interested in food. . . . They don't think they are being trivial--foodies consider food to be an art on a level with painting or drama. It's actually their favorite art form."

And from Foodie.com: "The foodie lives to eat, and eating to live is definitive boredom. A true foodie clings to all things culinary. . . . To find the perfect cheese or the best macaroon recipe is life's work."

Answers.com: A person who has an ardent or refined interest in food; a gourmet

I don't think any of these are too far away from defining a dedicated LTHer.

m'th'su wrote:My objection to the term is largely linguistic and was nicely expressed by um, culinary cartoonist (?) Chris Onstad recently in Salon:

"The first time I ever heard a friend say it, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, my gut twisted, and I felt angry for some reason. Why do we need this fake new word? There are so many words that already describe the concept of people who like food, or enjoy cooking, or enjoy knowing about cooking. "Foodie": It's like the infantile diminutive -- you put a "y" on the end of everything to make it childlike. We don't need it. It's embarrassing. "I'm a foodie." Oh my God."

It's so overused that I can't bring myself to say it at this point. If the need arises, I'll generally refer to myself as a food nerd. But that said, I have to disagree with the feeling that it's a superfluous term. The only words I can think of to describe food enthusiasts that predate foodie, in my mind at least, have a high-brow connotation... foie gras and fine wine and truffles and such. I think the word "foodie" can describe the guy who appreciates a great burger as much as a great beef wellington in a way that "gourmand," for example, cannot.

Dmnkly wrote: I think the word "foodie" can describe the guy who appreciates a great burger as much as a great beef wellington in a way that "gourmand," for example, cannot.

Absolutely. But "gourmand" also carries the connotation of somebody who eats a lot. It's sort of a refined glutton.

Binko wrote:

Dmnkly wrote: I think the word "foodie" can describe the guy who appreciates a great burger as much as a great beef wellington in a way that "gourmand," for example, cannot.

Absolutely. But "gourmand" also carries the connotation of somebody who eats a lot. It's sort of a refined glutton.

I just throw that up there as one example. Point being, I can't think of any pre-foodie words for food enthusiasts that I don't associate primarily or exclusively with high food. Of course, this may be more a matter of my vocabulary (or lack thereof).

I occasionally call myself a "foodster", but I realized that sounds like a gourmet food download scheme...

Ultimately I like gourmand, but agree it does fall in the snooty camp...

Dmnkly wrote:If the need arises, I'll generally refer to myself as a food nerd. But that said, I have to disagree with the feeling that it's a superfluous term. The only words I can think of to describe food enthusiasts that predate foodie, in my mind at least, have a high-brow connotation... foie gras and fine wine and truffles and such. I think the word "foodie" can describe the guy who appreciates a great burger as much as a great beef wellington in a way that "gourmand," for example, cannot.

"Food nerd" is humble enough, and I actually like it more than foodie/gourmand/gourmet, though not as much as chowhound (which is out of bounds). In line with this thinking, "food geek" seems like a possibility, though I may just use "food nerd" for a while to see how it feels....or perhaps "ferd."

HI,

I, too, liked chowhound though after a while it just wasn't my warm comfy zone. I will use 'foodie' as a quickie explanation when more isn't needed, though I don't feel it. More often than not when people question my food picture takings (if they haven't already offered to snap the whole table, which I always decline) I just tell them, "It's my hobby!" Those three words satisfy many people.

In many respects I am a food generalist: I cook it, think it, read it and learn more about it. I do like the idea of 'food nerd' or sometimes I consider myself 'food centric,' because it really is so. Foodie has a lot of baggage I just don't carry.

Regards,

This reminds me of the old discussion between the Harvard and Yale alumni about how completely different their college experiences were - except the differences were not distinguishable to anyone who did not go to Harvard or Yale. For everyone else, Ivy League=Ivy League, but don't call an Eli a Crimson.

Foodie, gourmet, gourmand, epicurean (my preference) Chowhound, LTH'er - the distinctions between each of these names are only significant to someone who would call themselves one of them - to everyone else, we are all people who have an obsession with food, and have this desire to search out and eat weird stuff.

Personally, I tend to think that some of them denote people who search out, sample and think about their food, while others are more about being competitively cool in one's pursuits. And I would argue that all of them connote people who are much more selective about their food than the norm (as opposed to a glutton - somehow I have always found the vision of a fat person chowing down at McDonalds to be supremely sad, so many wasted calories...). Gluttony may be a component of this "pickiness", or it may not - I imagine that more often than not there is gluttony involved.

Anyway, I prefer the term Epicurean, but I get called all of them and I bear them quietly. My single favorite commentary on it all remains that scene from "Monty Python's The Meaning of Life," (so full of wonderful social commentary), you know the one .

dicksond wrote:Foodie, gourmet, gourmand, epicurean (my preference) Chowhound, LTH'er - the distinctions between each of these names are only significant to someone who would call themselves one of them - to everyone else, we are all people who have an obsession with food, and have this desire to search out and eat weird stuff.

There's some truth to that, but connotations of "gourmet" are, as has been noted, somewhat arrogant and more-knowledgeable-about-food-than-thou, and you might get strange looks if you announce yourself as an Epicurean ("Is that in our solar system, or are you like from another galaxy?").

Now that I think about it, when I'm talking to civilians, I usually refer to me and my friends as "food fanatics," which seems to convey the right tone of humility and self-conscious obsessiveness, without suggesting any fancy pants effetery.

dicksond wrote:Foodie, gourmet, gourmand, epicurean (my preference) Chowhound, LTH'er - the distinctions between each of these names are only significant to someone who would call themselves one of them - to everyone else, we are all people who have an obsession with food, and have this desire to search out and eat weird stuff.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think people who use a term have a very specific picture in their head of the person that fits that label.

I've been in situations where acquaintance X is introducing me to person Y and says, "Mike's a foodie!" Person Y says, "Oh, cool! Do you like Moto or Alinea better?"

"Well, I've never been to either," I reply, and go on to explain where my food interests lie--generally very far from the cutting edge. This all gets translated to Person Y as "this person isn't a foodie"--Never mind the fact that I know the names, locations, and strengths of enough taquerias to keep them busy for months.

I think, for the most part, the word "foodie" is used to mean, "a person who goes to all the hot, new, expensive restaurants and talks about them a lot". I think the words "gourmet", "epicure", and "culinary enthusiast" evoke different images in people's minds.

I don't like the term "foodie" and I never use it.

------------------------

Linguistic annoyances: (as m'th'su' noted). Do we call someone who's interested in cars a "car-ie", is a bibliophile a "bookie", stamp-collector a "stampy"? It sounds to me like a pre-school description of something: take the thing that this person is interested in and add a "ee" sound to the end of it.

Best,
Michael

David Hammond wrote:Now that I think about it, when I'm talking to civilians, I usually refer to me and my friends as "food fanatics," which seems to convey the right tone of humility and self-conscious obsessiveness, without suggesting any fancy pants effetery.

I've used that term too. I also sometimes use "culinary enthusiasts", which to me sounds nerdy in a hobbyist sort of way, which isn't really too far off the mark.

eatchicago wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Now that I think about it, when I'm talking to civilians, I usually refer to me and my friends as "food fanatics," which seems to convey the right tone of humility and self-conscious obsessiveness, without suggesting any fancy pants effetery.

I've used that term too. I also sometimes use "culinary enthusiasts", which to me sounds nerdy in a hobbyist sort of way, which isn't really too far off the mark.

Depends on the audience. For the general population, "culinary enthusiasts" may come across as hoity-toity, which as you explain, is way off the mark when one's enthusiasms tend toward taquerias and street vendors.

David Hammond wrote:Depends on the audience. For the general population, "culinary enthusiasts" may come across as hoity-toity, which as you explain, is way off the mark when one's enthusiasms tend toward taquerias and street vendors.

Yeah, sometimes I just feel like being kinda hoity-toity.