Rene G,

There was a framed menu from an earlier era at Phil Smidt's, did you take a picture? I'm wondering if it has frog legs on there or not. It certainly was in the era John Drury would have patronized.

Incidentally, early Chinese restaurants were not the cheap meal. The Chinese American Museum did a program where they showed images of the upscale elaborate interiors with prices to match. Some restaurants were massive with seating of 1000 customers, not the tiny Ma and Pa places we often patronize today.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:There was a framed menu from an earlier era at Phil Smidt's, did you take a picture? I'm wondering if it has frog legs on there or not. It certainly was in the era John Drury would have patronized.

I'm not sure of the date but, yes, the old menu includes frog legs. They were served in pairs back then as today and a complete dinner was 85 cents. Clearly frog legs go way back at Smidt's. My only point (not clearly made) was that they weren't always their signature dish, maybe not what one would expect in this era of frogleg.com and 1-800-FROGLEG.

Cathy2 wrote:Incidentally, early Chinese restaurants were not the cheap meal. The Chinese American Museum did a program where they showed images of the upscale elaborate interiors with prices to match. Some restaurants were massive with seating of 1000 customers, not the tiny Ma and Pa places we often patronize today.

I think many of the earliest Chinese restaurants around Clark & Van Buren (and elsewhere) were quite inexpensive. The 1902 Tribune article notes they competed successfully with the cheapest American lunchrooms and were patronized by actors and actresses, policemen, and reporters. The area around Clark & Van Buren wasn't particularly savory what with all the gambling rooms, opium dens and brothels. The Standard Guide to Chicago for the Year 1892 says of the area, "Respectable people are not in much danger down here, for the very good reason that respectable people are seldom to be found loitering around this neighborhood."

In general the Chinese restaurants on Randolph Street appealed to a higher-class clientele. My impression is that King Joy Lo was the first to up the ante with its elaborate interior and live orchestra. I'm sure this place wasn't cheap. For several decades there seemed to be an escalation of elaborateness with each new restaurant trying to outdo its competition. For me, the culmination of the Chinese Restaurant Wars was Hoe Sai Gai with its spectacular art deco interior.

I'll post some pictures later.

Cathy2 wrote:The Chinese American Museum is trying to ID Chinese restaurants of this vintage with the same family owning them. Do you know the ownership lineage?

Cathy, my understanding is that the restaurant changed hands a few years ago and is now run by some recent immigrants from Mainland China. Not sure where they are from, but, lest people be scared off by the prospect of chow mein, they do have some new dishes, though perhaps those are off the menu. I had some salt and pepper shrimp there about a year ago-- not up to Little Three Happiness standards, but pretty good. And it seems to me that someone posted here about the dish.

My Dad spent the summer of 1939 at his grandmother's in the 1500 block of Hinman. Since his family patronized the Chinese-American place in Minneapolis, I'm thinking he might have eaten at Phoenix during that summer. On the other hand, he might not have eaten out much -- his grandmother had a cook! Granny was apparently fascinated with Harry Houdini, so maybe she had a taste for a little adventure in dining as well. I will ask him about the Phoenix Inn. Who knows? He remembered the World's Fair from when he was really little.

Not to interrupt the conversation, but count me in for lunch on Tuesday... Haven't been to one in a while... =)

Back to the discussion....

Look what happened to be on Ebay at this very moment:

CrazyC wrote:Not to interrupt the conversation, but count me in for lunch on Tuesday... Haven't been to one in a while... =)

Back to the discussion....

I'll be at the lunch on Tuesday, too.

=R=

A slightly updated post on Early Chinese Restaurants in Chicago can be found here in Other Culinary Chat. I've added some interesting pictures.

I'm not surprised. We were talking about this (oldest restaurant in Evanston) last week, in fact (while dining at Davis Street Fishmarket, which opened in 1985).

A lot of restaurants in Evanston opened in the 1980s and some in the 1970s. Blind Faith opened around the time I moved here, in 1979. I knew that the Original Pancake House opened in Wilmette in 1960, but that's in Wilmette, about a block away from the border with Evanston. I figured something older might be a "hole in the wall" (i.e. cheap eats) type place; I was guessing some place like the Golden Olympic (a Greek "family restaurant" on Church, around the corner from the Phoenix Inn).

Those who have lived in Evanston as long as I have probably remember the nicer places that came and went years ago, like Leslee's and Cafe Provencale, both started by the late Leslee Reis. Fritz That's It, the second Lettuce Entertain You restaurant (after RJ Grunt's), opened in 1973.

Other places that I'm pretty sure were in Evanston in 1979 include Carmen's (then on Fountain Square, opened around that time), Dave's Italian Kitchen (then on Church near the old Dominick's, which was in the area where Wolfgang Puck's and the Century Theaters are now - Dave's opened 1972 on Davis St), the Pine Yard (also then on that same stretch of Church - opened 1973), and the previously-mentioned Sher-Main.

Some locations have seen various places come and go, but without continuous operations. For example, Va Pensiero's current space used to be a restaurant open to the public called the Margarita Club, which seemed like it had been there for many years.

d4v3 wrote:

The place is like the anti-LTH. Everything comes in a salty-sweet brown sauce

Count me in for next Tuesday. For once I expect to have time available, and my tastes are sufficiently low-brow for the Phoenix Inn.

In keeping with the theme, I'm thinking of ordering Chow Mein.

It also makes me giggle that this thread for a restaurant nobody seems to like is generating so much interest. Great choice!

Count me inn

Mhays wrote:It also makes me giggle that this thread for a restaurant nobody seems to like is generating so much interest. Great choice!

I agree. The historical context sheds a whole new light on a place that I have ignored for at least 15 years. Although it would be cool if the original family still owned the place, it really wasn't very good. Who knows, maybe the present owners have some pleasant surprises for us.

nsxtasy wrote:Blind Faith opened around the time I moved here, in 1979.
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.
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Other places that I'm pretty sure were in Evanston in 1979 include Carmen's (then on Fountain Square, opened around that time), Dave's Italian Kitchen (then on Church near the old Dominick's, which was in the area where Wolfgang Puck's and the Century Theaters are now - Dave's opened 1972 on Davis St), the Pine Yard (also then on that same stretch of Church - opened 1973)

One other place that's been around since the 1970s and possibly earlier is the Keg. I'm not sure if they have been open continuously (I know they've revamped their approach several times; at one point it was a more upscale steak-and-salad-bar place than the pub it is today) and I'm not sure when they first opened - anybody know? Better yet, anyone know of any other restaurants that have been in Evanston since prior to 1970?

I know The Keg has been shut down several times for various reasons - does that disqualify it from being considered "open continuously?

As mentioned upthread, Bill's has been around since the late 1940s.

Another I suspect goes back at least to the 1970s, mentioned here
Sarkis Cafe
2632 Gross Point Rd
(between Crawford Ave & Hartzell St)

And of course, gp6004's own Wiener and Still Champion dates back to 1975.

I'm sure there are others.

nr706 wrote:As mentioned upthread, Bill's has been around since the late 1940s.

1949, to be precise, as noted on their logo here.

Due to details beyond my control, I've gone from 'definite' to 'iffy' for today's lunch. I'll do my best to be there but please do not wait for me if I'm not there by 12:30.

Thanks,

=R=

Just saw Cathy at the pool today and alerted me about the lunch. I'd like to come too! If it's not too late!

helen wrote:Just saw Cathy at the pool today and alerted me about the lunch. I'd like to come too! If it's not too late!

Please come! Based on my experience with the last one I attended, quite a few people show up without posting ahead of time.

Unfortunately, I have now relocated to L.A., but in my days at NU ('87-91), PI was a critical part of my winter food supply, largely because they delivered and I didn't have a car....

nsxtasy wrote: Better yet, anyone know of any other restaurants that have been in Evanston since prior to 1970?

There was Mr. Ollie's, a Greek style coffee shop on the corner of Main & Maple in the former Ridgeview Hotel which opened in the mid-60's, but is long gone and now a nursing home.

Oh, my gosh! I totally forgot! - I knew today was too easy!

At any rate, I volunteer to organize the next one for June - unless you already discussed another idea.

So sorry to miss lunch with my friends!

Mhays wrote:Oh, my gosh! I totally forgot! - I knew today was too easy!

At any rate, I volunteer to organize the next one for June - unless you already discussed another idea.

So sorry to miss lunch with my friends!

Yes, we already discussed the next lunch. We decided that you're organizing it.

So where are the photos?

And...

nr706 wrote:Yes, we already discussed the next lunch. We decided that you're organizing it.

...is the place you mentioned definitely the location for the next one?

Location for the next one is up to Mhays.

As for photos, (damn, you're demanding, nsxtasy ) it was a busy afternoon. But here's what I've got:

It’s become such a cliché, I hate to write it. But I will. The best part of the lunch today was the company – thanks to all who came out.

But that’s not to say the food wasn’t good. In the context of inexpensive Amer-Chinese cuisine, I thought it wasn’t bad. Maybe even half a step above not bad. Not a destination place, not quite as good as The Pineyard (3 - 4 blocks down the street), but a good option if you're in the area.

After I moved from Old Town to Evanston in 1989, my first meal in Evanston was at the Phoenix Inn. I remember it as being a rather dark, somewhat dingy place, with lots of food in gloppy brown sauce.

Although we didn’t explore the issue, I’m inclined to believe Josephine’s note upthread that the ownership has changed. The place is much brighter than it used to be, and the floor plan is more open. I don't think anyone would describe it as dingy.

So seven of us gathered here:


The meal started with soup - CrazyC had the egg drop, most of us had a creditable hot & sour:


Note that most lunches (@ $4.85) came with fried rice and a vegetarian egg roll.

Action shot from George R – he thought the Pork Chow Mein needed a little soy.


My Kung Pao Beef still had gloppy brown sauce. Not that that’s a bad thing. The beef was pleasantly chewy.


Yummy gloppy sauce also on Kung Pao Chicken


I thought nsxtasy’s Orange Chicken was particularly good – the orange flavor was prominent.


Shrimp Egg Foo Young was also a bit saucy:


Cathy2 had the Chicken Almond Ding:


And then there was Beef Chow Ho Fun:

I may have missed a few things, and my handwriting is bad enough that I'm not sure my notes are as accurate as I'd like (feel free to correct me).
At $7 a head (which included a nice tip) it was a fun, inexpensive early afternoon. And I can still taste my Kung Pao Beef.

HI,

Did you forget my Chicken Almond Din?

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:HI,

Did you forget my Chicken Almond Din?

Regards,

Yep, I did. Memory fades when you get old. I've edited the previous post.

Actually the second gloppy brown sauce dish was supposed to be yu syang shrimp, it was the sweet gloppy brown sauce as opposed to the salty gloppy brown sauce. Crazy C's noodles looked to be the most edible thing on the table. They did have Congee on the menu for under $4. I might go back for that or the noodles. All in all, The place looks much different, but the food hasn't changed much. Still, the lunches are a lot of food for under $5.

nr706 wrote:Location for the next one is up to Mhays, but I know she's considering Bombay Kebab.

Actually, after eating at Bombay, I've reconsidered... I thought it might be a nice change of pace to be able to say: yes, the company's nice, but the food really kicked @#$.

If everyone's amenable, I'd like to take germuska's excellent suggestion of having a lunch at Cafe Salamera before it closes. What do you all think? If this sounds like a good idea, we may want to come up with an alternate site to do the eating, as the cafe itself is tiny. Let me know, or PM me with alternate ideas, and I'll start a new thread.

HI,

Given their circumstances, you may want to consider doing it earlier rather than later. How about the Tuesday after Memorial Day? Very likely we can eat in. I was there recently with 4-5 other people. We simply moved tables together.

Regards,