Since we've bashed Good Eating with such passion, we perhaps should also acknowledge when the Tribune does better. I thought today's piece by Monica Eng, Eats you're not going to find in Zagat's Guide was very good, hitting some interesting places succinctly and generally accurately. Since I now work in the northwest corner of the loop, and used to work in the southeast corner, I've tried most of them and agree with most of her assessments. I've tried all of them except La Cocina, the 7th floor food court at Marshall Field's, (though I confess to having done the basement food court and, though it's never worth it except for the atmosphere, the Walnut Room) and, oddly, Millers. Let me also add, regarding her suggestion of AsiaGo, that although the lunch entrees are all off the steam table and will go head to head with any Chinese buffet of your acquaintance, if you order the same stuff after work they'll cook it fresh for you and it's much better. I especially recommend their Singapore noodles.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/ ... etempo-hed

I did think today's issue was better than recent -- who doesn't love condiments, eh?

The Not in Zagat's made me go, "really?" a few times, until I realized she was restricting herself to the loop. When I worked downtown, I usually tried to avoid going south of the river during lunch -- what a zoo, and State and Grand, even 20 years ago, was a stone's throw from lots of cheap good lunches.

It's worth noting that the Lerner Newspapers Food Editor who posts here regularly (yes, I mean the one that I'm married to) did her story on the topic of What Zagat Missed first... based on the survey data, rather than the guide itself.

JoelF wrote:The Not in Zagat's made me go, "really?" a few times, until I realized she was restricting herself to the loop. When I worked downtown, I usually tried to avoid going south of the river during lunch -- what a zoo, and State and Grand, even 20 years ago, was a stone's throw from lots of cheap good lunches.

The fact that it took a while to figure out that it was a Loop-only list was either bad writing or bad editing. But it was an interesting list of Loop restaurants. Not all my choices, of course, but interesting.

Meanwhile, my copy of the new Zagat has arrived (I was a contributor, as, I assume, many of you were)... but I'll put those comments in a separate topic.

RheS wrote:The fact that it took a while to figure out that it was a Loop-only list was either bad writing or bad editing.

The list was in the context of a weeklong series on the Loop, with a slant toward uncovering some unknown spots and facts therein. Though Zagat was in the headline, the piece was intended to point out some non-Zagat type places rather than actually investigate or comment on the Zagat guide.

Aaron Deacon wrote:The list was in the context of a weeklong series on the Loop, with a slant toward uncovering some unknown spots and facts therein....

Thank you for pointing that out. It certainly wasn't obvious to me, who only saw that one article. But it makes much more sense in that context.

JoelF wrote:I did think today's issue was better than recent -- who doesn't love condiments, eh?

Actually, guilty. As kids, we were taught to eat things the way they came out of the kitchen. (I think my parents may have overextrapolated from the "only a cretin would put ketchup on a steak" rule that was going around then. Or maybe, as children of the depression, they rarely had condiments as kids themselves so rarely used them as adults.)

Anyway, I have a couple of mustards for sauces and stuff, but indeed I rarely add anything to any food that's been served me.

I rarely add anything to any food that's been served me.

What I don't get is people who never tasted the food begin to doctor it with salt, pepper and other condiments.

I am also annoyed when it comes from a restaurant kitchen and desperately NEEDS doctoring to make it palatable.

I will eat food as-is from the kitchen more often than not, also. I want to eat it as the cook intended it to be.

Two followups:

1) I didn't realize it was part of the "To Da Loop" theme, because I was still asleep while reading the paper commuting to work (between the kitchen and the corner of my bedroom that's the office)

2) There are only two things I condimentalize (sic) prior to tasting:
a) French Fries Need Ketchup (unless some other sort of sauce is provided)
b) Chicken soup -- if I can't see bits of black pepper floating and sinking in the soup, there's not enough. I've gotten out of the habit of automatically adding salt (too many salt-restricted hypertensive great aunts at family gatherings has resulted in traditionally underseasoned chicken stock for holiday matzo ball soup), but I've got to add pepper.

Cathy2,

Agreed... My pet peeve is going to a Chinese restaurant and people immediately reach for the soy sauce the second the dish hits the table. Then they proceed to complain that the dish is too salty...

Argh ! Drives me crazy!!!

JoelF,

JoelF wrote:2) There are only two things I condimentalize (sic) prior to tasting:a) French Fries Need Ketchup (unless some other sort of sauce is provided) b) Chicken soup -- if I can't see bits of black pepper floating and sinking in the soup, there's not enough. I've gotten out of the habit of automatically adding salt (too many salt-restricted hypertensive great aunts at family gatherings has resulted in traditionally underseasoned chicken stock for holiday matzo ball soup), but I've got to add pepper.

I'm with you on adding pepper to soup. I grind a jaw-dropping amount of pepper into my soup...so much so, that there's usually a small cracked pepper sandbar at the bottom of the soup bowl when I'm done.

I feel that adding condiments prior to eating is somehow less egregiously simple-minded than adding salt. I mean, you do it routinely with a hamburger or hot dog, right.

I was distressed to read, earlier in this thread, that some parents chastize children with the notion that "only cretins would put catsup on steak." Would these same parents say the same thing about mustard, chutney, A-1, or any one of thousand other condiments? Not to revive an old controversy, but this is just another distressing example of catsup-bashing that defies common sense and reflects, I believe, a disturbing psychological disorder, an irrational hatred for a simple and universal and highly useful condiment.

Hammond

Not to revive an old controversy, but this is just another distressing example of catsup-bashing that defies common sense and reflects, I believe, a disturbing psychological disorder, an irrational hatred for a simple and universal and highly useful condiment.

Just remember folks, Hammond always wears a ketchup bottle on his lapel. He is the lion at the gate protecting ketchup's virtue from stain, sully or unfettered prejudice.

I just might have to make some Cathy-made ketchup for our Ketchup Prince.

By the way David, which do you prefer: ketchup or catsup? Is walnut or grape ketchup a travesty in your mind or are you a lean mean tomato man, no exceptions?

C2,

Is it ketchup or catsup? Well, when I entered into a long-term debate on Chowhound concerning the virtues of this condiment, I put Catsup Controversy in the subject line; since then, I've stuck to catsup (this slightly eccentric spelling also reflects, I think, my slightly off-center regard for the sauce).

You would think, given my militant stance that people keep an open mind about catsup, that I would maintain a similarly open mind about what catsup can be. Though I'd be willing to try a Walnut Catsup, and I'd be willing to conclude that it was very good, it'd be hard for me to say that it was, indeed, catsup, but actually, I should probably taste it before I jump to conclusions about my probable conclusions.

C2, I don't know if you remember, but you did give me some of your most excellent homemade catsup once; it didn't last long. Ditto the bottle of Brooks that Rene bestowed up me. My youngest daughter and I are big eaters of French fries and catsup, the one use of catsup that most people accept without question.

Hammond

David Hammond wrote:Is it ketchup or catsup?

'Catsup' is a perfectly acceptable American variant of 'ketchup', which is presumably a bit closer to the form which likely was the main and direct source for the introduction of the term in the west, namely the Malay (and now also Indonesian) kechap (modern Malay spelling 'kecap'); the term was introduced into Europe by the Dutch. The source form for the Malay word is a Chinese (Amoy) dialect form indicating originally a kind of fish sauce.

Quote:

My youngest daughter and I are big eaters of French fries and catsup - the one use of catsup that most people accept without question

.


I don't use ketchup often but will occasionally on fries; it is an excellent pairing. I must say too, though, that I prefer the Belgian practice of using mayonnaise in this context but that is not a good choice for the arteries (and otherwise I almost never eat mayonnaise).

Ketchup, catsup, it definitely has a noble place in the arsenal of condiments.

A

HI,

I have never made the walnut, speculated but never did it.

I have made the grape catsup, which was interesting. When I am canning, I sometimes go overboard in my efforts to can everything but the moo. I had grape debris leftover from make jelly. I put the grapes, which had their seeds and skins still present, into a foodmill and extracted the pulp. This pulp I added vinegar, sugar and spices and cooked to a consistency of catsup. The only flaw in my ointment was the food mill ground some of the seeds, so my catsup had a bit of a gritty texture.

I brought my grape catsup to the very first Culinary Historians meeting I ever went to. The topic du jour was Ketchup. I still remember laughing myself silly getting up early and driving into the city just for a ketchup lecture. Anyway, when the lecture was over I brought up my grape catsup, which intrigued those present and I allowed samples. There was one woman, who I met only on this occasion, who offered my grape catsup would be excellent with grilled duck breast. She spoke in a style as if she had parted waters and bestowed divine wisdom; so I gave her the jar in deference to her kind gift.

Maybe if I don't get too canned-out this year, I may just try some new catsup for us to talk about. And I do remember I gave you the catsup. I just used my last jar a few months ago ... it took a long time to finish because someone keeps buying Heinz, instead!

David Hammond wrote:I was distressed to read, earlier in this thread, that some parents chastize children with the notion that "only cretins would put catsup on steak." Would these same parents say the same thing about mustard, chutney, A-1, or any one of thousand other condiments?

Actually, in their case, yes. They were equal-opportunity condiment bashers. :) (Keep in mind, at our lower-middle-class level, "steak" was a concept, not a food that had any relevance to our lives. For that matter, I'm not sure what age I was when I first heard of chutney, but I know it was not in my first quarter-century, when I still lived under the family roof. But in our defense I'm willing to gamble that chutney was unknown in most Polish-American homes of the '60s and '70s.)

Mr. Hammond also wrote:Not to revive an old controversy, but this is just another distressing example of catsup-bashing that defies common sense and reflects, I believe, a disturbing psychological disorder, an irrational hatred for a simple and universal and highly useful condiment.

Hammond

My gift to you is all the ketchup (I am old-fashioned and only ever saw it spelled this way as a youth) I'll never enjoy. I don't hate it by any means -- were you to take me to a burger stand I'd never been to and slip the short-order cook a fin to spread some ketchup on the burger before it reached me, I would be impressed at their confidence that this was the way it should be eaten. (But I would probably still mumble sadly about the distraction from the taste of the meat.)

Antonius wrote:I don't use ketchup often but will occasionally on fries; it is an excellent pairing. I must say too, though, that I prefer the Belgian practice of using mayonnaise in this context but that is not a good choice for the arteries (and otherwise I almost never eat mayonnaise).

Someday when you're feeling robustly healthy, try dipping fries in bernaise sauce.

Sublime!

Cathy2 wrote:What I don't get is people who never tasted the food begin to doctor it with salt, pepper and other condiments.

Bravo, Cathy!

Some Chicago captain of industry (Potter Palmer? W Clement Stone? anyone know?) supposedly would take prospective hirees to lunch and if they salted their food before tasting, he wouldn't hire them because he thought that action showed lack of judgement.

Pehaps an apocryphal tale, but surely a cautionary one.

(Although, I admit to the occasional pepper sandbar syndrome.....but only with a known quantity, of couse....)

Some Chicago captain of industry (Potter Palmer? W Clement Stone? anyone know?) supposedly would take prospective hirees to lunch and if they salted their food before tasting, he wouldn't hire them because he thought that action showed lack of judgement.

I was aware of that idea. I think it also demonstrated pre-judgement without any allowance for new information (a taste) to influence your behavior.

My maternal grandparents were salt enthusiasts. I would take away the salt and pepper shaker from the table before dinner. My Grandparents need to salt before eating was so strong, they wouldn't know how to begin eating without 'the blessing' as I called it. They'd get all agitated but I held my ground they needed to taste first. More often than not, they reluctantly agreed it was good as-is. After the first taste, the salt and pepper returned to the table.

zaphod wrote:Someday when you're feeling robustly healthy, try dipping fries in béarnaise sauce.

Sublime!

Indeed.

I've done that a few times in the past, while living in Belgium, when having a steak with béarnaise and frites. Green peppercorn sauce isn't too bad with a steak-frites meal either. But thinking of these things has just reminded me of my Jones for really good watercress (a nice accompaniment to steak and fritten and a heavy sauce).

A

I learned my lesson about salting food before tasting during my senior year in high school.

It was March Madness and a group of us had driven to Champaign to watch our team compete in the basketball finals. The night before several of us got together for dinner at a typical college greasy spoon.

When the food arrived, I reached for the salt. A girl in our group, whose father was a chef at the old Executive House Hotel, said sharply "Don't salt your food without tasting it; it's an insult to the chef!"

I realized the logic of what she said and sheepishly tasted the food first. By chance, the fries were unsalted and the rest of the food was pretty bland. Being an obnoxious high schooler I then made a show of salting my plate heavily while she sat in stony silence.

However, the lesson was learned and I have followed it since. Better for both my taste buds and my health.

Cathy2 wrote:What I don't get is people who never tasted the food begin to doctor it with salt, pepper and other condiments.

For me, the key phrase here is "never." Any dining spot that has regulars, and at that regulars who may often order the same thing when they're there, probably has a consistent enough method of preparation that said regulars can season their food without a first taste.

Incidentally, I'm a big fan of the garlic mayo cheese fries at T's on Winnemac at Clark. I understand garlic is good for one's heart so I don't worry about the mayo, cheese, or frying.

I have changed the name of this topic to include the condiment discussion.

Personally, I only use catsup on corned beef hash and hamburgers. And I rarely season or add condiments to my foods before tasting them, the exceptions being Hamburgers and Hot Dogs. Iced Tea was once in this category, but that was before I experienced Sweet Tea, and these new artifical fruit-flavored teas that I abhor. Now I taste first to be sure what I am dealing with.

Ok, now I'm going to further digress this:
Sweetened Iced Tea: Sweet Tea is a different drink from the mildly astringent Iced Tea Ordinaire. Yup, I like it. I drank enough of it when we vacationed in Georgia and the Carolinas that I thought my teeth would melt. Snapple is Atkins-friendly compared to this stuff. Mmmmm... no wonder I could hike up mountains and swim mighty rivers.

But I agree with you on fruit teas: When I order iced tea these days, I always say, "As long as it's not fruit flavored."

Except lemon. Gotta have lemon.

Antonius wrote:

zaphod wrote:Someday when you're feeling robustly healthy, try dipping fries in bernaise sauce.

Sublime!

Indeed.

I've done that a few times in the past, while living in Belgium, when having a steak with béarnaise and frites. Green peppercorn sauce isn't too bad with a steak-frites meal either. But thinking of these things has just reminded me of my Jones for really good watercress (a nice accompaniment to steak and fritten and a heavy sauce).

A

Funny you guys should mention Bearnaise as a condiment. Just this past Saturday night I was catering a small dinner party. While the roast was resting I fried up a grilled cheese sandwich for myself. The host insisted that the last slice (of the roast) remain in the kitchen for my to which I topped with the remaining bearnaise. The sauce of course drifted over to my nicely fried grilled cheese and the combo was sublime. Cheese sammy slathered in butter, fried, then dipped in Bearnaise. YUMMY.

btw, can someone call me an ambulance, my chest hurts.

Flip

Flip wrote:Cheese sammy slathered in butter, fried, then dipped in Bearnaise. YUMMY.

btw, can someone call me an ambulance, my chest hurts.

Flip:

Quick, take a mortar and pestle, grind up a little garlic and a little sea salt and a little olive oil, rub the mixture on a slice of toasted bread, then eat one aspirin, take a big bite of the bread and wash this down with a big glass of red wine.

A

It appears that nothing has changed with the Good Eating section of the Tribune since this thread of three years ago. The quality of this section is a joke - the articles assume that the readers are just learning about food and are a mere half-step away from preparing Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

Bill Daley's wine "column" is a joke - did anyone read this weeks "quote-a-thon" on small wine shops featuring Rodney Alex at Juicy Wine and the (old reliable) folks at Que Syrah? Where is the personal perspective? Where is the insight. Daley (and Phil Vettel, for that matter) remind me of the rap on Gene Siskel - compared to someone like Roger Ebert, he didn't display any particular passion or expertise with respect to the subject matter...it's just another newspaper "beat" (FYI, Siskel was the Trib's real estate reporter before he was paper's film critic).

Hi,

Did you happen to respond to Bill Daley's query on wine shop customers? If you want to hear different voices, then there are occasional opportunities to lend your own.

Regards,

111134ld wrote:It appears that nothing has changed with the Good Eating section of the Tribune since this thread of three years ago. The quality of this section is a joke - the articles assume that the readers are just learning about food and are a mere half-step away from preparing Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

Bill Daley's wine "column" is a joke - did anyone read this weeks "quote-a-thon" on small wine shops featuring Rodney Alex at Juicy Wine and the (old reliable) folks at Que Syrah? Where is the personal perspective? Where is the insight. Daley (and Phil Vettel, for that matter) remind me of the rap on Gene Siskel - compared to someone like Roger Ebert, he didn't display any particular passion or expertise with respect to the subject matter...it's just another newspaper "beat" (FYI, Siskel was the Trib's real estate reporter before he was paper's film critic).

IMO: Daley's GE column is one of the fw remaining reasons to delve into that section of the paper. Good Eating *was* the reason I originally subscribed waybackwhen at The Printer's Row Bookfair one year. Though for certain I'm a Tribune person(as much as I can bare to stand the increasingly officious nonsense as per print media, academic media vs. those goshdurn internets...ma!).

I basically agree with your observations; Good Eating has gone significantly downhill since the overhaul...apparently, their new demographic is suburban housewives of the "greatest generation" who are just now exploring fresh flat leaf over that musty tin of dried flakes left over from WW2.

Very rarely they run a series of perceptive articles like the one on global markets from this past year.

otherwise...feh...

but, speaking of Daley and the LCD-ing of culinary coverage in the Trib: just look at what they stick him with week after week after week on Sundays---

"I've got a bottle of 2006 Yellowtail cellaring in the garage...will it mature enough for my godbaby's college graduation?"

yikes

---

Perhaps part of my beef with Daley is that he's billed as a wine "critic" (which implies that he has an opinion regading the underlying subject matter) rather than as a wine "reporter" (i.e. he is simply there to report on trends, i.e. business at small wine shops).

If Daley is a wine reporter, then barding his articles with quotations from others (including members of the general public) is entirely appropriate. Most, if not all, critics at the Trib do "beat" reporting on their particular areas in addition to opinion-oriented pieces; for example, Blair Kamin will write about new building projects in addition to pieces devoted purely to architectural criticism.

Daley never writes opinion pieces. His articles are all reporting. I would be much more interested in what a wine critic thinks rather than read a mish-mash of quotations from alleged "experts".[/i]

During the past few weeks the section has really been awful. I didn't read today's yet - I am saving that for the train ride home.

I find myself enjoying the restaurant reviews in Thursday's paper more than the Wed food section.