While I would agree that the top places in NYC and LA are better than the top places here (I lived in NYC for a while and have visited LA and always eat sushi), I do NOT agree that the average place in those cities is any better than here.

I think a previous poster was spot on when he said if Katsu had tried to be Yasuda when he opened he wouldn't still be around.

I don't think there's an expensive sushi restaurant in Chicago, unless it's Heat (which I've avoided because everything about it seems... well, cheesy).

For me, two things matter. Fresh fish and good cuts. Size is unimportant, rolls are unimportant, cooked dishes are unimportant. So, does anyone know who is flying in the highest quality fish? And who is buying it?

basis wrote:I don't think there's an expensive sushi restaurant in Chicago, unless it's Heat (which I've avoided because everything about it seems... well, cheesy).

Been to Japonais lately? It might not seem expensive to you, but it does to me.

Seems funny to me that we’re all discussing these sushi joints “quality” when it seems to me what we’re really discussing, for the most part, is the quality of the fish distributor that supplies the fish to these restaurants. Maki, cooked food, obviously are a different story. If I remember correctly, the Trib article on the Rev. Moon’s fish distributor business stated that almost all (save 4-5) places get their fish from the ?good? Reverend. So, I suspect that these are the main determining factors on if your dinner at a local sushi place is good or bad:

1) What quality the restaurant is willing to spend at the distributor. I remember hearing that these distributors are essentially auctions. Dunno if that’s how it’s done here.

2) How often the restaurant buys new fish? (every day, every other day, etc.). Probably based on amount of traffic at the place. So, busier is prob better.

3) Random luck on the quality of the fish that day/week. Prob goes a way to say why my sashmi at Bob-San was great one weekend while another poster had a terrible experience 2 weeks later.

4) General quality carried by the distributor.

5) Proper transportation and storage. I hope the health inspectors are on this one.

Obviously there is something to be said for the chef’s deftness with the blade. But, that’s not going to change “Sorry Charlie” to fatty tuna.

basis wrote:I do NOT agree that the average place in those cities is any better than here.

pray tell, where can you find the likes of Sushi Gen, Azami (which I don't even find attractive), Tama Sushi, Echigo, etc. in Chicago?

Them be average sushi joints in LA. Our avg sushi is Butterfly, Sai Cafe, Coast, or.. TANK???? :BARF: (doggonit where's that emoticon when you need it)

I'm talking neighborhood joints. The kind there are hundreds of in both places. My point is that mediocre fish is mediocre fish, but what's considered "good" or "great" can certainly vary.

I went to my neighborhood place about a month ago (Torajiro, on Diversey). Not good, not good at all.

Although sushi in this area has definitely come a long way since the late 1970's, when it was rare to find a traditional Japanese restaurant outside of the North Side of Chicago, it's probably not on a whole what you'll find on a regular basis in the metro areas in California.

I remember dining at what I thought was a regular sushi joint called Yoshi's in Roseville, CA (outside Sacramento), and the chef was telling us how he had his high-grade fish trucked in from San Francisco every day, which in turn had been flown from Tokyo every day. The pieces were huge, the freshness was pristine, and the prices were low--a buck & a half to two bucks per.

Point being that singularly because of geography, you couldn't make that happen in Chicago.

TonyC wrote:

basis wrote:I do NOT agree that the average place in those cities is any better than here.

pray tell, where can you find the likes of Sushi Gen, Azami (which I don't even find attractive), Tama Sushi, Echigo, etc. in Chicago?

Them be average sushi joints in LA. Our avg sushi is Butterfly, Sai Cafe, Coast, or.. TANK???? :BARF: (doggonit where's that emoticon when you need it)

Aw, gee, Tony, does this mean there aren't any good Sushi, or Chinese places in Chicago ?

Okay, I know that was not your point, just can't resist.

In principle, I would imagine the market dynamics of sushi-grade fish work something like this.

The higher the total volume, the better the selection. So there are probably a few big cities that have more, better, fish available. The higher volume would also probably lead to a somewhat lower price (volume making up for lower markup, and also lowering unit transportation costs), so other cities would also be able to offer that better fish for a slightly lower price, even if the fish is not necessarily the biggest cost factor.

Then you get into the restaurant-specific issues, such as the ability of the owner/chef to identify the best fish, and his/her willingness to pay up for a better quality. Again, I would imagine Chicago sushi places are at a bit of a disadvantage in general to LA or San Francisco because of a much smaller Japanese community which would mean less people who recognize really good fish and are willing to pay for it.

So it seems plausible to me that the median Sushi place here is working with lower grade fish. Totally meaningless since I have never dined at the median or average sushi place, but I suppose it does mean that if I picked a place totally at random here it would likely not be as good as one I picked totally at random in LA.

Fortunately I have LTHForum, and do not have to do that.

Not everything in life has to be the best you've ever eaten. Sometimes fine is, well, fine.



Salmon skin hand roll, Renga-Tei.

This thread made me hungry.

Mike G wrote:Not everything in life has to be the best you've ever eaten. Sometimes fine is, well, fine.

That's a great point, and I'm going to think about that as I review/critique from now on. Sushi is one of those foods that I want to be perfect, or I don't want it at all. On the other hand, when I want a cheeseburger, any decent bar burger will hit the spot.

Thanks for the thought.

I always start off any sushi experience with the question: "What is very fresh today?" I order only a few pieces of what is suggested. If they suck, I leave. It's very rare, but some will try to point you towards what they are trying to get rid of. For the most part, however, they WILL tell you what is freshest.

What's funny to me is, you can get the same quality of fish at most of the "average" sushi joints in town as you can get at the higher end joints. You just have to know WHICH fish to get at what time. This is where developing a repoire with the sushi chef at a neighboorhood joint (or one of the "average" places) will play to your advantage. I don't go for sushi expecting everything to be spot on anymore at an average place. I simply ask the chef what is spot on. I also read in a book on sushi a long time ago, that it is considered polite to ask this of the chef, and not frowned upon in any way. Finally, if/when you do find a neighboorhood or average joint and the chef guides you through a sampling of really good selections, buy him a beer at the end of the meal. It will be WELL worth the 5 bux if you go back, and see him again, trust me.

Brings back memories of when:
Matsuya was fantastic for the price,
Nohana just S of Broadway / Belmont was a killer all u can eat deal,
Benkay was absolutely amazing, (and I think the only place in the city that offered TRUE ama ebi - ie - they REALLY danced )
Honda was the most expensive,
Ohba used to give absolute SLABS (I'm talking three bites) for nigiri.
Hatsuhana was the place to be seen.

I think a lot of it is market/clientele expectations.

The "best" sushi restaurants in Chicago would not survive in a major west coast market (especially at the price point which they are charging).

Chicago is a maki town. I have a relative from HK who loves Chicago sushi because she can't get the type of crazy maki that we have here. However, if your thing is nigiri and sashimi... what is available is not very good. You can pay more... but for dear god, I can get four pieces of better otoro and chutoro in Seattle for the price of one smallish piece here in Chicago.

Also... think about it... how many sushi restaurants in the city are actually run by Japanese people and have trained Japanese sushi chefs?

Yo wrote:Also... think about it... how many sushi restaurants in the city are actually run by Japanese people and have trained Japanese sushi chefs?

There are a lot of Thai and Korean-owned sushi places. But two of my favorites, Kuni's and Renga-Tei, are definitely Japanese-owned with trained sushi chefs.

Supposedly Heat is now up for sale.

BryanZ wrote:Supposedly Heat is now up for sale.

Yea, my wife heard the same from her cousin Peg, who got the info from her hair dresser who heard it from someone getting a perm. I think she got the info from a plumber who has a drinking buddy who once worked on a clogged drain in the restaurant.

Oh, wait, it wasn't Heat, but another place, which I can't think of at the moment. When I do I post about it in detail.

As a California refugee, I can agree that the overall standard of sushi quality is higher there. But there are areas in which Chicago's overall standards of quality are much higher - in meats, Italian and Eastern European cuisines - so it all balances out.

Plus, I have yet another food shame in this area (taking its place alongside a deep love for DQ ice cream, White Castle cheeseburgers, and really crappy pizza) which is that I secretly adore all the funky white-boy makis with mayo and/or overly sweet sauce. I have found it much easier to indulge this shameful lust here in Chicago. For what it's worth.

G Wiv wrote:

BryanZ wrote:Supposedly Heat is now up for sale.

Yea, my wife heard the same from her cousin Peg, who got the info from her hair dresser who heard it from someone getting a perm. I think she got the info from a plumber who has a drinking buddy who once worked on a clogged drain in the restaurant.

Oh, wait, it wasn't Heat, but another place, which I can't think of at the moment. When I do I post about it in detail.

Friend told me there's a "For Sale" sign up in the window. Hardly discrete if I say so myself.

BryanZ wrote:Friend told me there's a "For Sale" sign up in the window. Hardly discrete if I say so myself.

Yes, that's "supposedly" what my cousins friend's plumber said. Thanks for clarifying.

Ah, another newcomer to LTH being welcomed with open arms. Always nice to see.

jesteinf wrote:Ah, another newcomer to LTH being welcomed with open arms. Always nice to see.

Josh,

I hope he's not thin-skinned and sticks around as I enjoyed reading his Blackbird post.

Enjoy,
Gary

It'll be harder than that to get rid of me. Work has me staffed in Chicago as opposed to out of state, so I'll have a good amount of time actually in the city. How much of that will actually be free from work remains to be seen, however.

I promise I'll get to at least a couple of the better known sushi joints in the area and share my opinions.

I'm sure he's not. Just keepin' it real.

jesteinf wrote:I'm sure he's not. Just keepin' it real.

Gary is trying to make a valuable point that may be lost on a few people. Posting hearsay about a restaurant for thousands of other people to read can be damaging to a business owner.

While we don't strictly forbid posting about how a restaurant might be up for sale or that the owner doesn't care anymore and is just looking to cash out, LTHForum is not a restaurant-rumor site. It's good practice to avoid posting unconfirmed, potentially damaging information about a business. Restaurant owners are our neighbors (literally and figuratively). Be neighborly.

I'm sure BryanZ's friend is trustworthy, but this is still a second-hand rumor and BryanZ's friend could have easily been standing next to a beautiful woman and missed a few words under "For Sale" that might have read "1986 Cutlass - Barely Used".

Best,
Michael
for the moderators

eatchicago wrote:Gary is trying to make a valuable point that may be lost on a few people. Posting hearsay about a restaurant for thousands of other people to read can be damaging to a business owner.

Yes, exactly.

I second the mention of Sai Cafe. My fiance and I love it there, and the guys at the sushi bar are great.

While browsing quickly, I didn't see any mention of Coast on Damen in Bucktown. Their sushi is excellent as well. Their tuna w/ ponzu sauce is the best I have had.

Our local neighborhood visit is to Bentonara on Belmont and Racine. For the price, their sushi is very good and their maki rolls are bigger so you feel like you are getting more for your money!

BryanZ wrote:Supposedly Heat is now up for sale.

Dish wrote:Kee Chan, please pick up the white courtesy phone. The onetime creative force behind Heat (1507 N. Sedgwick St.), Heats (Holmes Place Health Club; 355 E. Grand Ave.), and Mulan (2017 S. Wells St.; 312-842-8282) has closed the first two, and no longer has anything to do with the third. (He hasn’t for some time, according to Kelly Caldwell, Mulan’s general manager.) “He kind of lost his focus,” says Caldwell. Mulan’s chef, for the record, is Chico Dang (Pekin House), and he carries on in Mulan’s modern style. “And we brought in a sushi chef,” adds Caldwell. Chan did not return calls for this article.

Dish wrote:Mulan’s chef, for the record, is Chico Dang (Pekin House)

As in Pekin House on Devon? I'm almost ready to take one for the team if he's making those same peanut butter & grease flavored eggrolls.

So my informant was right. I feel marginally vindicated.

Anyway, this new job o' mine isn't affording me as many eating opportunities as I would've hoped. Two days into my engagement and I'm working 14+ hours per day. To bring this back on topic, my team ordered in sushi two nights ago from Kamehachi, a restaurant that I believe has been mentioned in this thread. It was, like, alright. Definitely better than a run-of-the-mill neighborhood place but not approaching good either. Of course this was delivery so it's not a fair comparison, but I thought I'd share.

BryanZ wrote:So my informant was right. I feel marginally vindicated.

I'm sure that an apology will be forthcoming post-haste.

YoYoPedro wrote:I'm sure that an apology will be forthcoming post-haste.

Yo,

My point, which I seem to have made badly, was not whether the info was (eventually) proven right or wrong, but that we, meaning participants on LTHForum, should be circumspect regarding unverified info that can directly effect business.

Michael summed it up in a more direct fashion upthread

Regards,
Gary