Upon googling "vegetarian beers" and tromping around in the brush a bit,
one discovers that Bell Beers neither fine nor filter their beers. Now *that's* an interesting find...

Geo

Binko wrote:Do a Google search on "vegetarian beer"

I did. Interesting. I guess I don't understand why a vegetarian would avoid a product that might contain microscopic amounts of gelatin or isinglass, but they're okay with similar amounts of Polyclar (powdered plastic) or bentonite (basically, powdered rock).

And what if the field where the barley was grown used all-natural, organic manure-based fertilizer?

I just don't understand this vegetarian stuff.

End of rant. Let's get back to brewing.

nr706 wrote:

Binko wrote:Do a Google search on "vegetarian beer"

I did. Interesting. I guess I don't understand why a vegetarian would avoid a product that might contain microscopic amounts of gelatin or isinglass, but they're okay with similar amounts of Polyclar (powdered plastic) or bentonite (basically, powdered rock).

Well, because plastic and rocks are not animals, I would suppose...

But, yeah, add beer to the list of reasons why I could never become a strict vegetarian.

jpeac2, how did the beers turn out?

I am about to make my first batch today. Got this Brewing Intermediate Kit w/ Better Bottles as a closing gift from my mortgage broker and bought a Belgian Witbier w/ White Labs Belgian Wit Ale 400 to start it off with.

One question I have for the experts is why the 6 and 5 gallon Better Bottles? Do you not need much headroom in the secondary so a 5 gallon is fine for 5 gallon batches? Figured this kit is useful to be able to do primary in the 6.5 gallon bucket, then transfer to one of the carboys and then be able to start a new batch in primary then switch that to the other carboy, right? Could you use the 6 gallon carboy as a primary as well?

Anything else anyone can se that I should add to my equipment to make it easier on me? Was planning on hitting Brew and Gro to get a kettle thermometer and probably a bottle jet before I start today.

Also, for sanitizing the primary, just add some of the solution and water and fill it up and let it sit?

Thanks-
Jamie

One question I have for the experts is why the 6 and 5 gallon Better Bottles? Do you not need much headroom in the secondary so a 5 gallon is fine for 5 gallon batches?

Basically, yeah.

I do primary in glass carboys. I do everything in glass carboys, actually. It's cool being able to see it all.

The usual reason given for open primaries is that yeast, during the initial growth phase, require oxygen. Which means that no (or: not very much) alcohol is produced at first, until there's a CO2 blanket across the top of the primary.

My own experience has been that the initial stages of primary can get messy, and it's always easier to clean an open primary than, say, a carbouy.

Secondary fermentation is a lot slower, a lot less messy, hence it's a lot easier to move to a carbouy.

Geo

Jamieson22 -

Congrats!

We bottled our third batch and have ben very excited about the results from the first two. First one was an Oktoberfest followed up by an Oberon Clone. Although our Oberon clone is not dead on, it still tastes great.

Good luck!

I bottled my first batch this past weekend, a Belgian Witbier. Initial tasting was good for warm flat beer. Hope to be drinking it cold and carbed in a few weeks

Also have an Oatmeal Stout that should be ready to bottle this weekend, a Belgian Trappist ale ready to rack to secondary in a few days and a Hefeweizen that was brewed yesterday.

Also will be brewing a Dunkelweizen and an Amarillo Pale in in next week or so.

Anyone happen to have any extra 5 gal carboys and empty bottles they want to unload?

Jamie

Awesome! I have been lurking here a bit, and I didn't know we talked about home brewing here! I've been brewing for about 10 years now, and I'm BJCP.

I don't know if it's ok to post a link to another board, but since this is a Chicago board I will post a link to a Chicago (actually Chicago and Milwaukee) home brewing board.
http://www.free90free.com/peshchat/
They are a good crowd. Check them out if you like. If this is inappropriate, mods please delete.

Tips on questions from earlier in the thread:

-Extract twang is debatable. Many say that fresh extract does not produce it.

-It is not impossible to pitch too much yeast. Too much yeast will not let esters fully develop and can result in too hot explosive fermentation producing off flavors and fusel alcohols.

-B-T-F is NOT a sanitizer. It is a cleaner that must be rinsed thoroughly! Do not use B-T-F without rinsing!

-I like cleaning bottles with a bleach dilution. 1-2 ounces of bleach with 5 gallons of water takes labels right off, and softens the glue till it practically wipes away. I just soak overnight.

-You really should sanitize bottles, especially if you will be keeping the beer for a long time. Starsan or iodine is highly recommended. One-Step is not.

-Irish moss is great as a fining agent and will keep the vegans happy. Most commercial beers don't use fining agents anyway. They either pasteurize or filter. Some are even certified Kosher (like Coors).

I actually just recycled about 4 cases of bottles this past weekend. One thing I can say is Two Brother's beer labels do NOT come off with a soak, at least not for me. I had 2 cases of their bottles and after soaking in my giant cooler with a water/ammonia solution for hours they came out as if they were dry. Seemed like some sort of vinyl sticker that was impervious to water. Peeling 2 labels of each of 48 bottles is NOT fun
Jamie

Jamie,

go down to your corner tavern and buy a couple cases of Bud returnables. The labels come off with a strong dose of dishwasher 'soap'. Life really IS too short to mess with stubborn labels.

Geo

PS. Any waterproof label will float off with xylene/xylol. Buy it at your neighborhood hardware store. Use it outside or with a vented-exhaust fanned enclosure.

For the adhesive-removal debate, you might after soaking off the label try WD-40, which is reputed to dissolve adhesives of many kinds. I personally would seal the tops of the bottles while doing this, since I can't imagine WD-40 residue would do much for the flavor of the beer.

I would put saran wrap over the top and down the sides of the neck a little way and secure with a rubber band. Use a new piece of saran wrap for each bottle.

Maybe that comes to more trouble than scraping it off by hand.

Or you guys could just use straight hydrochloric acid, or weapons grade plutonium... Don't make it more complicated then it has to be. A little bleach with a bunch of water and a good soak and they come right off. With a decent rinse worst case scenario is that your hand smell a bit like a pool.

chicagojay wrote:Or you guys could just use straight hydrochloric acid, or weapons grade plutonium... Don't make it more complicated then it has to be. A little bleach with a bunch of water and a good soak and they come right off. With a decent rinse worst case scenario is that your hand smell a bit like a pool.

I think my point was that the Two Brother's labels DO NOT come off with a soaking, they are this waterproof type material. Guess I'll stick with Two Brothers on tap

Geo, not sure any corner taverns around here even have non-returnables. I have been building up a fair collection of bottles just from my drinking habits alone

Jamie

KC bars...well, many of them anyway, are full of guys drinking from Bud longnecks, typically returnables. Maybe a different beer culture??

I save and de-label wine bottles in the same way as you do beer bottles. The bottles from OZ are just impossible: they've perfected some sort of adhesive Down There, maybe a secret extract of 'roo spit or something, that is just impervious to any ordinary solvent ¶ I have. I once soaked a couple of Rosemont bottles for a week. Nothing happened. Must be some sort of an anti-aqueous field or something. That's when I discovered xylol did the job. But I'll probably come down with lung cancer bcz of it. Weapons-grade plutonium might have been a better choice in the long-run...

Geo

¶ By "ordinary solvent" here, I mean "stuff I've got under the kitchen sink."

Could someone help me convert this partial mash recipe into a full extract recipe? Also any idea where to get Pilsner LME or should I just use a golden?

I guess I could just try the partial mash, but if I do, can I do less than a full 5 gallon boil (I have a 5 gallon pot and usually do 3 gallon boils and top of in primary). Would anything have to change? Also when would the sugar be added?

Delerium Tremens Partial Mash Clone

Grains
6lbs Belgian Pilsner Malt
3.0lbs German Pilsner Liquid Extract
1.75lbs Table Sugar

Hops
Saaz 4.3%AA 1.4oz 75 Min.(boil)
East Kent Goldings 5.7%AA 0.4oz 5 Min.(boil)

Spices
0.40 Oz Corriander Seed 10 Min.(boil)
0.14 Oz Ginger Root 10 Min.(boil)
0.14 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 10 Min.(boil)

Yeast
Harvested from bottles of DT

Notes
90 minute boil
Extract added w/ 30min remaining

According to Promash ( http://www.promash.com/ ), S.G. is about 1.072. You need about 7.5 lbs of LME or 6 lbs of DME total (including the 3.0 lbs originally in the recipe) to hit that number.

Pilsner extract is often called extra light or lager. To be true to the style I would try to find it. Most shops should have Muntons extra light.

You want to boil as much volume as possible for a beer that big to reduce carmelization, which would be inappropriate for this beer. If you are doing a partial boil I would add the sugar in the last 15 mins to further reduce carmelization. The sugar only needs to be sterilized, which happens in 15 min.

Thanks Jay!

I was actually considering getting equipment to do a partial mash and just following that recipe rather than converting to all extract. Any ideas where to get a 3 gallon beverage cooler? Wife was at Target today and they had a 2 gallon or 5 gallon. Seems to handle 6lbs of grains I need a 10 qt beverage cooler.

Have the yeast from a 750ml bottle of Delirium Tremens sitting in a flask with a pint of wort I made last night. Never tried to culture from a bottle (heck I have only brewed 4 batches of beer so far), so am just kind of winging it. Any guidance on the process from here on out?

Jamie

According to promash, 6 lbs of grain and 1.5 qt/lb of grain (9 quarts) is 2.73 gallons. You will need more then 3 gallons to have room to stir. I would go at least 4 gallons, which is a 16 quart. You don't need a beverage cooler. A square one is fine (I use one). Check this how to page:
http://www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
you can attach the braided steel any way you can figure out. Some simply use a threaded pipe with washers.

The only guidance I can offer is just use good starter procedure. There's info on that here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php .

BTW, there is a debate on whether the yeast in the bottle is the primary fermenting yeast. supposedly they add another yeast when bottling. There's 20 pages of debate on that here if you are so inclined:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=22572

chicagojay wrote:According to promash, 6 lbs of grain and 1.5 qt/lb of grain (9 quarts) is 2.73 gallons. You will need more then 3 gallons to have room to stir. I would go at least 4 gallons, which is a 16 quart. You don't need a beverage cooler. A square one is fine (I use one). Check this how to page:
http://www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
you can attach the braided steel any way you can figure out. Some simply use a threaded pipe with washers.

The only guidance I can offer is just use good starter procedure. There's info on that here: http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php .

BTW, there is a debate on whether the yeast in the bottle is the primary fermenting yeast. supposedly they add another yeast when bottling. There's 20 pages of debate on that here if you are so inclined:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=22572

Thanks for the links, will def be building a cooler mash tun. Am just getting my head around all-grain brewing but would anything else be needed to do all grain batches other than a cooler mash tun and a pot big enough to boil 6+ gallons?

That NB forum thread is where I got teh recipe I posted. Seems that best results were achieved when using the cultured bottle yeast so, what the heck, may as well try it!

Well you will need some assorted hoses, something to vourlaf with, and some other odds and ends. Nothing major.

I'm sure it will make a good beer with the bottle yeast. Good luck!

chicagojay wrote:Well you will need some assorted hoses, something to vourlaf with, and some other odds and ends. Nothing major.

I'm sure it will make a good beer with the bottle yeast. Good luck!

Well that seems easy enough! What is the best sized cooler to use to be able to handle mashing grains for 5 gallon batches?

For all grain? 40-50 quart is what most people use. Just like the one in the how to link.

Accurate thermometers are absolutely essential for mashing. Most electronic ones don't like a lot of moisture. You can seal the top of the probe with silicon or a bit of shrink tubing. You should probably get a dial type thermometer to mount permanently in your cooler (either through the side or top) so you can watch the temp without opening the lid. You will need another to measure the strike temperature of the hot water you are adding to the grain. In my experience, using a square cooler with a strainer is a pain in the butt. The strainer tends to get plugged with grain, making sparging a pain. A round Gott cooler with a false bottom is the best way to go, but it is expensive (I still use a square cooler myself). A 2 qt. Pyrex measuring cup is very handy also.

d4v3, try the stainless braid. They work great, and are cheap.