Cathy2 wrote:Twenty years ago, credit cards were an American-thing and a travel convenience. I remember going to a department store in Zurich, Switzerland to buy some clothing before heading back to Eastern Europe. I pulled out my credit card, which caused quite a flurry! Someone had to go to the chief accountants office to get the credit card processing machine and forms. When the cashier processed my card, other girls from the floor came to watch how it was done.

And now we're the laggards because our cards don't have smartchips in them, and if we buy things in Europe they have to drag out the phone line thing, do all sorts of double-checking...

Hi,

Yeah, you're right.

They were also more progressive in automatic deposits to pay your rent, electric, phone and all. Of course, forever dramatized in the German who apparently lived a pretty solitary life. Nobody looked into his where-abouts until his bank accounts were drained dry. He sat mouldering in his easy chair with the Christmas tree lights flashing and television on. They determined his date of death from which page his television guide was turned to some years before.

Regards,

stevez wrote:...someone slipped me a car wash token masquerading as a quarter in some change I got yesterday...

Ah - I got so annoyed during a layover in Heathrow. They don't take Euros, and I desperately wanted a coffee and pastry. So I changed maybe $5 or the equivalent in Euros in one of those machines that spits out Pounds and Pence - except instead of a Pound I got a Kroner. So I barely had enough for the coffee. The guy gave me a biscotti for a bit off, feeling mildly sorry for the jetlagged American, and took my Kroner.

After the switchover, but not long after, they were still changing but not taking Marks and I took one with - maybe a 20 Mark bill? - and it was so old that it was from before the last time they had changed currencies! The guy made fun of me for bringing him my grandmother's money from under her mattress.

Well I guess I can be considered a WSA. I usually pay by cash as I did today at Garden Fresh in Northbrook. The bill was $107 and I gave the cashier $120. While he was checking and counting the 20's the woman behind me was in such a hurry that she stormed to another checker almost knocking over the woman behind be to check out her 4 avocados and 2 other items. So do I have to switch to my check card to make everyone happy.
Paulette

paulette wrote:Well I guess I can be considered a WSA. I usually pay by cash as I did today at Garden Fresh in Northbrook.

Speaking as a business owner (granted, it's not a retail business), anyone who wants to pay cash is always welcome and is never a WCA...just don't whip out your check book.

paulette wrote:Well I guess I can be considered a WSA. I usually pay by cash as I did today at Garden Fresh in Northbrook. The bill was $107 and I gave the cashier $120. While he was checking and counting the 20's the woman behind me was in such a hurry that she stormed to another checker almost knocking over the woman behind be to check out her 4 avocados and 2 other items. So do I have to switch to my check card to make everyone happy.
Paulette

Paulette,

Sounds like the ire of the other shopper was probably directed more toward the cashier than to you.

Usually, cash is faster than credit cards, and credit cards are faster than checks. I would rather use cards all the time, but for relatively small purchases, I always pay cash because it's faster and I don't want to ding a retailer with a transaction fee for a small ticket (seems impolite and unfair).

Hope the cooking competition is going well,

Hammond

Re pocket change: I have a (probably perverse) hatred of the little "give a penny, take a penny" dish at the cash register. If I'm one penny short of having exact change, I refuse to take the penny from the dish. Because it's not mine. I don't care if I'm being given permission to do so, or that I'm actually being encouraged to do so. It's stealing, and it violates my ethical/moral code! The fact that the business, the cashier, and some of the other customers are colluding in this attempt to corrupt me doesn't change my mind about right and wrong. If a transaction comes to $1.01, I'm much happier giving a buck and a nickel and taking four pennies in change. Heck, I'll sooner give the cashier two bills and take 99¢ in change than steal from a dish just because it makes things more "convenient" for me. Stealing is stealing. It begins with a penny, and ends with Enron. Besides which, the invitation to take a penny affronts my personal pride--I've got the money, dammit, I don't need your charity!

And when I do get my 99¢ in change, I don't put my newfound four pennies in the dish. They're mine.

Special holiday weekend edition of Just Kinda Missing the Point Of Why You're In Business:

1) Whole Foods running a sale, during pumpkin pie-making week, on selected spices... and promptly running out of cinnamon, cloves, and nutmeg.

2) Panhandler on Ashland near downtown walking toward my car window to beg for change... while talking on his cell phone. I kid you not.

riddlemay wrote:Stealing is stealing.

Yes, but taking a penny freely offered is not stealing. Think of it like after dinner mints, or sugar packets and coffee stirrers. Or maybe you think taking those is stealing too?

BTW, I was in line behind a check writer at the grocery store this weekend. She wrote most of the check while the cashier was scanning items. At the end of the transaction, she couldn't have spent much longer finishing up than I did paying with a credit card, waiting for the receipt to print, and signing it.

It's not stealing. It is mooching, though. I don't take one, either.

Mike G wrote:Special holiday weekend edition of Just Kinda Missing the Point Of Why You're In Business:

2) Panhandler on Ashland near downtown walking toward my car window to beg for change... while talking on his cell phone. I kid you not.

On a related note, it chaffs my arse to be in a retail establishment, buying something from a clerk who is on his/her cell phone throughout the transaction. It's not that I need to talk about the weather or the Bears or whatever: I just don't want to feel like I'm "interrupting" them if I have to call something to their attention. Plus, and more importantly, I'd like them to focus on the business at hand because distractions lead to errors that seem almost always to be not in the customer's favor.

At The Wife's encouragement, I've started checking receipts to see if the cashier is actually giving me 2-for-1 or whatever incentive is being offered, and I'm surprised how many times I'm getting charged for items at the regular price when on the shelves a discount price is clearly indicated. At Dominick's, if you spot an error like that, you have to hold up the line while they call the manager over. If we're talking a few bucks, I usually don't bother, but at Walgreens over the weekend (the store where this thread got started) I got hit up $20 for two items that were supposed to be priced as one -- when I am asked to pay twice as much as indicated, I make the world stop until the error is sorted out, which I do not consider an instance of World Class Assininity.

Hammond

I was shopping with my daughters at the crack of dawn on Friday because they thought it would be fun to shop in the dark. It wasn't, they hated standing in line and we'll never do that again. However, when the checkout clerk was scanning our merchandise, I was astounded to glance at the computerized screen and see a total amount that was nearly twice what I anticipated it should be. I started yelling at my kids because I told them they could each pick out four items and the clerk was already at item 11. The girls insisted that they each only had four items, so the clerk zeroed out the purchase and started over. I have no idea what she did the first time, but there were still only 8 items there when she rang them up the second time. She originally had three items keyed in that were much more expensive than what I was buying, but those three items were nowhere in sight. Glad I caught it at the checkout, because the store management would never have believed me if I came in later and told them she made a mistake and charged me for 11 items instead of 8.

Suzy

On a related note, it chaffs my arse to be in a retail establishment, buying something from a clerk who is on his/her cell phone throughout the transaction.

If they're talking on a cell phone, answering a store phone, dealing with another customer, or doing anything but assisting me, I just stop cold and refuse to do anything until I have their attention. This is not to be a WCA but because it is guaranteed that they are in the process of screwing my transaction up by not paying attention. Probably I'm saving correct-the-mistake time; in any case, tough.

Another thing I've noticed lately that is counterproductive is the order-taker in the drive through racing ahead of me:

Me: I'd like two Happy meals with cheesebur--

Them: WHAT SANDWICH WOULD YOU LIKE WITH THAT?

Me: Cheeseburgers, with ketchup only--

Them: WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES, OR DEEPFRIED CARAMEL-STUFFED APPLE HEALTHY ALTERNATIVES?

Me: Did you get the ketchup only?

Them: THE HEALTHY ALTERNATIVES DON'T COME WITH KETCHUP. I HAVE TWO HAPPY MEALS WITH CHEESEBURGERS, WHAT SIDES WOULD YOU LIKE WITH THOSE?

Me: That's two Happy Meals with cheeseburgers with ketchup o--

Them: WHAT SIDES WOULD YOU LIKE WITH YOUR OTHER TWO HAPPY MEALS?

Youngest Child: Dad, why are we driving away from the drive through at 70 miles an hour?

Mike G wrote:It's not stealing. It is mooching, though. I don't take one, either.

If you contribute all of your pennies wherever you are and take the ones you need, it's just karma coming around. Or, you could think of it as the old white bicycle program in Amsterdam

The White Bicycles (Witfiets) can be found at various locations in Amsterdam. They represent a revival of a concept that was tried in Amsterdam in the 1960s. Back then, Luud Schimmelpennink an environmentalist, along with an activist group dreamed up a plan to put free bicycles on the streets of Amsterdam. They figured if there were enough bicycles people could just grab one wherever they were and leave it at their destination for someone else to use.

However I admit to not taking part in the "penny exchange program" either.

If you watch to the very end, you get your sweet reward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwJi6i_PpM

Regards,

Hi,

I was involved in a cash transaction yesterday in a small grocery. I got $7 in change: a $5 and two $1. I like to arrange my money in sequential order with the heads all facing up. While I am arranging the money to put into my wallet, I see the $5 has an ethnic slur written prominently across. I asked the girl to please exchange this bill for another, which was slightly inconvenient because the drawer was already closed.

The next customer in line commented, "I don't know why you are making a fuss. It's still money and it's still good." I then turned to the cashier, "I don't recommend you give this $5 to another customer. You can exchange it at the bank." Other customer, "Geez, I think you are making a big deal out of this." "I don't see why they should get a bad reputation for giving money with a ethnic slur. It is probably not their fault, but it could create unnecessary problems. If it were the only $5, then I would accept it and exchange it at the bank. I would not be casually spent just anywhere."

Sometimes a simple cash transaction is not so simple.

Regards,

Gee, you could take a Visa check card commercial to whole new depths of controversy with a story like that!

Maybe this isn't news, but I noticed last week the signs all over my regular Whole Foods informing customers that they are no longer accepting personal checks. One less type of asshole to encounter at Whole Foods, I guess.

please watch who you're calling an asshole. i pay by personal check regularly; i intend to continue (though apparently not at whole foods). last time i looked it was a legal and common transaction. even IF it takes a few seconds longer than using a debit card (and plenty of other behavior can slow those people down), i think you should all keep your opinion of check writers to yourselves. justjoan

justjoan wrote:please watch who you're calling an asshole. i pay by personal check regularly; i intend to continue (though apparently not at whole foods). last time i looked it was a legal and common transaction. even IF it takes a few seconds longer than using a debit card (and plenty of other behavior can slow those people down), i think you should all keep your opinion of check writers to yourselves. justjoan

Okay - it was a joke and a continuation of the title of the original thread. I pay a number of things by check myself (although never in the line at the grocery store). Please don't take offense.

justjoan wrote:i pay by personal check regularly; i intend to continue (though apparently not at whole foods).

Honestly, why? I'm always curious why people who write checks don't just have debit cards. There must be some good reason, right?

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

justjoan wrote:i pay by personal check regularly; i intend to continue (though apparently not at whole foods).

Honestly, why? I'm always curious why people who write checks don't just have debit cards. There must be some good reason, right?

=R=

I don't write checks in the grocery line, and--no offense, joan--I hate it when people do, but I can think of one advantage over a debit card. You get to make a record of the check in your register, and keep a running tally of your balance. The receipts you get from using your debit card may show a balance (I wouldn't know, I also don't use debit cards--I use credit cards and pay off my bill monthly), but then you end up with lots of different pieces of paper instead of one continuously updated record.

riddlemay wrote:The receipts you get from using your debit card may show a balance (I wouldn't know, I also don't use debit cards--I use credit cards and pay off my bill monthly), but then you end up with lots of different pieces of paper instead of one continuously updated record.

Actually, using a debit card gives you a complete running balance online without you having to do anything. All of your transactions (deposits as well as debit transactions) are automatically recorded for you and available 24/7 on the web. Welcome to the 90's!

stevez wrote:

riddlemay wrote:The receipts you get from using your debit card may show a balance (I wouldn't know, I also don't use debit cards--I use credit cards and pay off my bill monthly), but then you end up with lots of different pieces of paper instead of one continuously updated record.

Actually, using a debit card gives you a complete running balance online without you having to do anything. All of your transactions (deposits as well as debit transactions) are automatically recorded for you and available 24/7 on the web. Welcome to the 90's!

Land o' Goshen!

Only speculating here on a psychology I don't claim to understand, but I think there's an analogy here to the early days of computing. I remember when I got my first Kaypro in the mid 80s, I used to print out everything. I'd spend a day writing, and at the end of the day, I'd print out everthing -- not that I actually needed hardcopy; it's just that I didn't trust keeping everything in intangible softcopy. I wanted to hold the document in my hands.

Maybe people write checks because they feel a greater sense of security, holding the paper in their hands, doing the numbers themselves, recording the information in their registers, while we watch.

Was behind a check-writing, coupon after the total finder tonight and
had to cool my heels for a few extra moments.... I did learn that Faith Hill
is telling her husband's fans to "keep your hands off my man"
I never would have known that if it wasn't for the check-writing slow-poke
in front....

David Hammond wrote:Maybe people write checks because they feel a greater sense of security, holding the paper in their hands, doing the numbers themselves, recording the information in their registers, while we watch.

You're onto something, because that's why I hand-write my checks to pay my bills at home when I could catch up with the 90s and pay them on my computer. People ask me why I still do this, and the answer has to do with security, like you say. Not the kind that has to do with preventing identity theft or a hacker stealing my balance. Rather, the security I get from understanding in my bones and with the sensation of ink going on paper how fast the money is going out, where I stand at any given moment, etc. I need that. Even though I realize that ink-on-paper is also just an abstract symbol--hell, cash is just an abstract symbol--checks and check registers feel realer to me than bits and pixels. And, somehow related to this, but not the same thing, there's a Calvinist (or Dickensian) streak in me that says that the outflow of money has to be carefully managed, should be a regulated stream, not a hemorrhage. Paying bills should take time, and be something of a personal pain in the ass, to ensure this result. Plus, well...that's how my father taught me to pay bills.

Maybe people who are a little further out this spectrum than me are the ones who write checks in public.

ronnie_suburban wrote:Honestly, why? I'm always curious why people who write checks don't just have debit cards. There must be some good reason, right?
=R=

There's a very good article in the current Consumer Reports that answers that question. I'm hoping it's not behind the subscription wall, so you can read it for yourself here.

Here's the bit I found most telling:

Since research shows that consumers who use debit cards more often are also more likely to overdraw their checking accounts, card-issuing banks can reap an additional $1 million from nonsufficient-fund fees, according to the Mercator report. Another study revealed that customers who used debit cards more than 20 times a year paid an average of $223 in NSF fees annually, compared with $40 for those who didn't use debit cards at all.

Until 2003, banks routinely declined debit-card purchases and ATM transactions for amounts that exceeded a customer's balance unless he or she had decided to link the account to a line of credit, credit card, or savings account to cover overdrafts. But since then, the number of banks using overdraft software packages has increased 80 percent. The software allows banks to pay overdrafts without alerting customers that they are exceeding their balance, according to the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer advocacy group. Customers don't realize that they'll be charged a fee, which average more than $30, if they proceed with the transaction. This fee is essentially a finance charge for a short-term overdraft loan, which the bank swiftly recoups from the account holder's next deposit. When translated into an annual percentage rate, overdraft fees on debit cards can exceed 1,000 percent.

Ann Fisher wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Honestly, why? I'm always curious why people who write checks don't just have debit cards. There must be some good reason, right?
=R=

There's a very good article in the current Consumer Reports that answers that question. I'm hoping it's not behind the subscription wall, so you can read it for yourself here.

Here's the bit I found most telling:

Since research shows that consumers who use debit cards more often are also more likely to overdraw their checking accounts, card-issuing banks can reap an additional $1 million from nonsufficient-fund fees, according to the Mercator report. Another study revealed that customers who used debit cards more than 20 times a year paid an average of $223 in NSF fees annually, compared with $40 for those who didn't use debit cards at all.

Until 2003, banks routinely declined debit-card purchases and ATM transactions for amounts that exceeded a customer's balance unless he or she had decided to link the account to a line of credit, credit card, or savings account to cover overdrafts. But since then, the number of banks using overdraft software packages has increased 80 percent. The software allows banks to pay overdrafts without alerting customers that they are exceeding their balance, according to the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer advocacy group. Customers don't realize that they'll be charged a fee, which average more than $30, if they proceed with the transaction. This fee is essentially a finance charge for a short-term overdraft loan, which the bank swiftly recoups from the account holder's next deposit. When translated into an annual percentage rate, overdraft fees on debit cards can exceed 1,000 percent.

Thanks, Ann. This connects with the issue of "feeling in control' that we just discussed. I never use my ATM/debit card for purchases (except by accident) because given my cash flow at the moment, if I make a big purchase I could exceed funds in my checking account (I do have overdraft insurance, but paying that requires an extra check -- it's never been covered by the next deposit, as indicated in the article -- it's a drag to use, though it's helpful). When I use my ATM/debit card, I just feel less in control (and less aware, as riddlemay suggested) of funds going in and going out.

I prefer to just use the credit card because exceeding the limit -- barring a lost weekend in Vegas, etc. -- is extremely unlikely and I get a clean summary of transactions every month.

Related note: after reading Colleen Rush's Mere Mortal's Guide to Fine Dining, I now routinely leave a cash gratuity for servers in restaurants. It's appreciated, and for smaller tabs this practice gives me an opportunity to unload pocket change (another gigantic pain in the ass). This is one of the best uses for hard currency, cash, paper money -- aside from that, I'll be glad to see the day when we no longer have to carry wads of bills and coins -- and checkbooks -- in our pockets.

Hammond

I've been into my bank once in the past four years - when I needed a cashier's check to present at the closing when I purchased the condo where I now live. My payroll is deposited electronically and I extract cash from my account using my ATM/Debit card.

Except when paying monthly assessment and utility bills, I don't write checks. When making purchases at stores - purchases $100 or less - I almost always use my Debit card. Purchases larger than $100 are made with my credit card. I've never overdrawn my account when using the Debit card and my bank provides a sufficiently detailed accounting of purchases I make with the card (and an almost instantaneous record is available for viewing online).

I don't often get impatient with people in front of me in one line or another and don't see any upside in getting stressed over the situation. I use public transportation almost daily, and, invariably, someone who has stood waiting 5 or 10 minutes, or longer, gets aboard a bus and fumbles in a purse or pocket for a transit card, coins, etc. Check-writers in the supermarkets are few and far between where I shop for groceries (my local Jewel) and those other shoppers who use checks don’t take but a minute to do their thing, and it's not frequent that I encounter someone writing a check in a department store.

In my life - all of this is a non-issue, but I do understand that most of us probably do things which annoy others.