YoYoPedro wrote:
So back to my question, can I call my burger "beef"?

Absolutely, but the more accurate term used in this country would be "ground beef."

Another can of worms: There is also "deli" roast beef.

seebee wrote:

YoYoPedro wrote:
So back to my question, can I call my burger "beef"?

Absolutely, but the more accurate term used in this country would be "ground beef."

Another can of worms: There is also "deli" roast beef.

So if someone chops, forms and cooks beef into a burger, it can still be called beef. Only seems fair to allow the same thing to be done with turkey. Also, although I wouldn't say that you CAN'T call a burger "ground beef", in this country I usually see the term "ground beef" used to refer to the raw ingredient, not the cooked version.

I understand that you don't like turkey that has had any processing done to it, so why not just avoid it? It is easy enough to spot. In the same way, I don't really like Velveeta, and whether it was called cheese or pasteurized processed cheese food product, I wouldn't be buying or eating it. But there are those who like it, so let them have as much as they want. Just my humble opinion.

YoYoPedro wrote:
So if someone chops, forms and cooks beef into a burger, it can still be called beef. Only seems fair to allow the same thing to be done with turkey.

Pedro - This is called a turkey burger, and I eat them all of the time. I have three pounds of purdue ground turkey in my freezer right now. This has nothing to do with deli turkey jello, or deli roast beef jello the way I look at it.
If your burger was pureed, had broth added, and then some kind of gelatin, and then formed into a tubular or rectangular geometric design, then sliced, put into a bun, and had absolutely no characteristics of ground beef, except for the color, then I do not believe I (or YOU) would accept the nomenclature of "burger" for that item. If you would still call that a burger, then we will never, ever agree on what a burger is, and I would seriously doubt your opinion on foods of other types as well.

YoYoPedro wrote:I understand that you don't like turkey that has had any processing done to it, so why not just avoid it? It is easy enough to spot. In the same way, I don't really like Velveeta, and whether it was called cheese or pasteurized processed cheese food product, I wouldn't be buying or eating it. But there are those who like it, so let them have as much as they want. Just my humble opinion.

Pedro - I COMPLETELY agree with this. And I avoid it. I can spot it - easily.
If I order a turkey sandwich in a new place, however, what are my chances of getting 'turkey?' And I also have to rely on someone else judging what is 'turkey.' I can ask the server if the 'turkey' is real, or processed, and I'd say that probably about 80% of the time, they have no idea what 'turkey' is, and I get a "Yup, it's real turkey." Then I get a sandwich with meat jello on it. Which is why I bring the question:
Why is the concept of 'turkey' open for debate??
There is turkey, and then there is other stuff.
Turkey is turkey.
Turkey is an animal, not a processed loaf. Why do I have to actually ask if turkey is turkey? And how do other people have no idea what turkey is? How do people eat processed yellow loaf, and think that is what turkey is?
It is completely inconceivable to me to think that a slice of turkey comes in the shape of a rectangle, and has no meat grain or texture to it. I have NEVER seen a turkey that produces a rectangle breast, that has the consistency of jello. Why do I have to weed out turkey from other things when I am looking for things with the label of turkey breast?"

I know that it's "just how it is" these days. I just wonder why/how other people think it's turkey. They obviously do.

seebee wrote:Turkey is turkey.
Turkey is an animal, not a processed loaf. Why do I have to actually ask if turkey is turkey? And how do other people have no idea what turkey is? How do people eat processed yellow loaf, and think that is what turkey is?
It is completely inconceivable to me to think that a slice of turkey comes in the shape of a rectangle, and has no meat grain or texture to it. I have NEVER seen a turkey that produces a rectangle breast, that has the consistency of jello. Why do I have to weed out turkey from other things when I am looking for things with the label of turkey breast?"

I know that it's "just how it is" these days. I just wonder why/how other people think it's turkey. They obviously do.

Maybe part of the issue here is just what you are saying. Turkey is one thing, turkey breast is another. If something is labeled turkey breast, it should contain turkey breast and perhaps a small percentage of broth needed to process it. The turkey that I thought we were talking about is a meat product that comes from the animal, in some way shape or form, not the animal itself. Of the 3 examples that have come up in discussion, beef, pork and turkey, the first 2 are crystal clear on what refers to the animal, and what refers to the meat. You could not say that beef is an animal. In the case of turkey, the word refers to both the animal and the meat that comes from it. It is much like fish in that way. Fish refers to both the creature and the food product that comes about when it is to be eaten. Is a fish stick still considered fish? I would say yes. Are some fish sticks (or most) chopped and formed? Yes. Is it a fish fillet? No, of course not. So McDonald's calling their sandwich a Filet-O-Fish is a misnomer. In my world, calling it a fish sandwich is allowed. I still happen to eat them occasionally on a road trip, and I know exactly what I am getting. Or at least have a faint sense of it.

I think this whole thing is starting to become a bit circular at this point. My whole angle is that other food products have levels of processing applied to them and it doesn't seem to have come to a head, but somehow turkey got singled out as unacceptable for processing. Believe me, very, very few delis will be serving you ham off the bone when you order a ham-and-cheese on rye. Most ham served in a deli is treated in much the same way as most turkey served in a deli, i.e. it is deboned and at least partially defatted, then formed into a loaf and cooked. IT'S STILL HAM. And like deli turkey, there are some deli hams that are better than others. Seek them out! I think I'll head up to El Cubanito this afternoon for a Cuban sandwich, hopefully with some rectangular ham slices on it. Cheers, and have a great weekend.

YoYoPedro wrote:My whole angle is that other food products have levels of processing applied to them and it doesn't seem to have come to a head, but somehow turkey got singled out as unacceptable for processing.

Be glad I didn't ask "What is head cheese?"

seebee wrote:What I've come to notice is that usually the "oven roasted," or "oven browned" versions are usually the ones with little to no remaining turkey characteristics, and are mostly just pureed meat mixed with broth and some kind of jello like substance. Many sub sandwich chains tend to use products like this, and I just cannot get past it. I also cannot understand why so many people purchase it. It's like they have been conditioned to think turkey comes in a rectangle, and has no characteristics resembling what is served in many American households on Thanksgiving. What irks me just as much, is that this stuff can cost MORE than turkey, and people buy it.

I've actually never been a fan of lunchmeat... I've had too many bad experiences with slimy meat slices that got me wondering why they were that way... and what I'm reading here just confirms it.

And I don't know why people buy it/eat it so religiously. In my aunt's house, it was basically the only food they had for lunch.

I'll prefer a hamburger, even a Wendy's one, any day over lunchmeat.

I would tend to trust Whole Foods' deli though.


So.... dare I ask... how do they make ground beef?