We stopped in on a Sunday evening a few weeks ago to try Burt's. There were only three tables occupied but every other table in the place was dirty/unbussed. There was only one woman there serving people and telling us it would be a fifteen minute wait until she would clear a table for us. We gave up and headed over to Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood for the old reliable.

Burt's looked absolutely filthy, and not because there were dirty tables. I can only imagine what the kitchen looks like. I won't go back because of this. Does this not bother anyone else here?

George wrote:We stopped in on a Sunday evening a few weeks ago to try Burt's. There were only three tables occupied but every other table in the place was dirty/unbussed. There was only one woman there serving people and telling us it would be a fifteen minute wait until she would clear a table for us. We gave up and headed over to Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood for the old reliable.

Burt's looked absolutely filthy, and not because there were dirty tables. I can only imagine what the kitchen looks like. I won't go back because of this. Does this not bother anyone else here?

Don't confuse dark with dirty. Yes the place is dark and old fashioned, that's the charm.

In addition, I believe his wife is the only other employee who helps him with the front of the house. A little more patience and you would have been rewarded with what I think is the best Pizza anywhere.

PS. I've poked my head back into the kitchen and it looked pretty clean.

I've never noticed it, so I guess it doesn't bother me.

I don't get the impression Burt or Sharon (no doubt the woman who told you 15 minutes) will be sad to hear you ended up at Malnati's, though.

saluki9 wrote:PS. I've poked my head back into the kitchen and it looked pretty clean.

That is quite an achievement. Saveur asked to visit his kitchen, which Burt declined.

Regards,

saluki9 wrote:
Don't confuse dark with dirty. Yes the place is dark and old fashioned, that's the charm.

I understand "dark and old fashioned," but can't abide "dirty." This place was all three, I'm afraid.

i'm not the biggest burt's fan but i can't say its ever been "dirty." i don't think that would be the right word to use to describe a few unbussed tables.

George wrote:We stopped in on a Sunday evening a few weeks ago to try Burt's. There were only three tables occupied but every other table in the place was dirty/unbussed. There was only one woman there serving people and telling us it would be a fifteen minute wait until she would clear a table for us. We gave up and headed over to Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood for the old reliable.

Burt's looked absolutely filthy, and not because there were dirty tables. I can only imagine what the kitchen looks like. I won't go back because of this. Does this not bother anyone else here?

s'ok...More For Me....

George wrote:We stopped in on a Sunday evening a few weeks ago to try Burt's. There were only three tables occupied but every other table in the place was dirty/unbussed. There was only one woman there serving people and telling us it would be a fifteen minute wait until she would clear a table for us. We gave up and headed over to Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood for the old reliable.

Burt's looked absolutely filthy, and not because there were dirty tables. I can only imagine what the kitchen looks like. I won't go back because of this. Does this not bother anyone else here?

We made our recent trip to Burt's over the summer and it was still light out while we sat in the dining room. There were no dirty tables when we were there and the dining room was only about half-full. It didn't look dirty to me but it did seem benignly worn. My water glass had some schmutz on it and when I asked, it was replaced.

Flash forward to last week when I took friends visiting from Cleveland to Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood. As much as I'm a huge fan of Malnati's and as much personal history as I've marked in that particular location, I was astounded by how dirty and shabby the whole place looked. Perhaps it was via the benefit of it being a bright sunny day but the place looked horrible to me. I'm pretty sure that the 'tartan' carpeting and drapes in the room where we were seated were unchanged since I was in high school (1977-1981). A trek downstairs revealed a relatively dirty men's room that wasn't wholly functional either.

My disappointment over the condition of the place was profound. I am responsible for organizing a big weekend here next summer for a bunch of visting food fans and after this trip, I crossed Malnati's right off the list of possible dinner venues. The place is simply too run down to confidently host such an event there.

My two points in all this are these:

1) In my recent experience, Burt's was probably in better condition than was Malnati's. Neither was in noticeably superior condition.

2) In spite of how unpolished both places were, they both turned out some delicious pizzas and I'll likely return to each of them.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:after this trip, I crossed Malnati's right off the list of possible dinner venues.

Lou Malnati's has many locations and they're not all like that. For example, I ate at their Evanston location a week ago and the condition of the decor was fine. I did not inspect the rest rooms, though.

Note that the Evanston location of Lou Malnati's has only been open since 2003. (In your high school days, I believe the restaurant on that site was Yesterday's, and the decor was entirely different.) Giordano's and Carmen's have both been in Evanston for many years (I'm thinking since the mid to late 1970's for Carmen's, early 1980's for Giordano's).

You know it's funny that Lou Mal's Lincolnwood location is a semi-regularly mainstay for me and I've never thought it dirty. The GF and I were there a couple weeks ago (and sat in the bar area). In late September, the time before, we were in the back dining room. Except for the omni-present slowly cleared table messyness, I've never found this place dirty or grimy. Dated - yes. We really love the place and the pizza. I love fancy as much as the next guy. But what matters to me is good food above all else and Lou Mal's always delivers for me.

Bster

George wrote:I understand "dark and old fashioned," but can't abide "dirty." This place was all three, I'm afraid.

George,

I am assuming by "dirty" you mean unkempt and not anything to do with health code violations. If you are unsure what I mean please read, as should all LTHForum members, LTHForum Posting Guidelines

Regards,
Gary for the moderators

I have a friend who regularly -- almost religiously -- eats at Burt's, and he told me Saturday that Burt has been completely (and not happily) overwhelmed by the sudden massive surge in business as a result of the mention in Saveur. He would rather have remained a little less well known, as he and his staff are struggling right now -- but also understand that staffing up would not be wise, as everyone will go somewhere else in a few months.

So unbussed tables don't surprise me. My friend said that on Saturday, the line was half a block long. Burt is not enjoying this.

Cynthia wrote:... but also understand that staffing up would not be wise, as everyone will go somewhere else in a few months.

Having never (yet) been to Burt's, pre- or post-Saveur, I have no opinion on the food, the place, or the running of the business. But I see no reason not to hire extra short-term help when business is booming. Stores hire extra help (e.g., college kids) for the holiday season; both parties know it's a short-term gig.

Katie wrote:

Cynthia wrote:... but also understand that staffing up would not be wise, as everyone will go somewhere else in a few months.

Having never (yet) been to Burt's, pre- or post-Saveur, I have no opinion on the food, the place, or the running of the business. But I see no reason not to hire extra short-term help when business is booming. Stores hire extra help (e.g., college kids) for the holiday season; both parties know it's a short-term gig.

You obviously haven't met Burt!

As someone who has been in Burt's kitchen (being Buddy's daughter does get you *some* privileges) I can assure you, it's perfectly clean. I've been to lots of restaurants where there have been smudges on the glasses, a little gunk on a fork, etc. and you ask for a new one and get on with your life. George, maybe you should just stay home. Like Diannie said, more for us!

abe_froeman wrote:George, maybe you should just stay home. Like Diannie said, more for us!

Let's not pile on, please. George made his comments in earnest and deserves to have them considered as such. He's a CIA graduate who is hardly naive about the world of food and restaurants. Thanks.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Let's not pile on, please. George made his comments in earnest and deserves to have them considered as such. He's a CIA graduate who is hardly naive about the world of food and restaurants. Thanks.

FWIW, I agree. Not that Burt's is unclean (I've never found it so) but that George's comments deserve consideration. He may have observed something I didn't. Or he may have a lower threshold of pain on that particular issue than I have. Doesn't make him wrong and me right. Heck, his comment may even be taken as constructive criticism, if it points to an area that Burt's, for all its wonderfulness, could do better on. Seems to me the "rebuttal" comments ("I think Burt's is clean") are fair game, but the ones that imply that George is just too fussy for the real world aren't.

Folks have to admint, entering a restaurant with plenty of vacant tables but being told by the hostess to wait fifteen minutes because she won't clear off a single table for you, is a bit inappropriate. Slammed with unanticipated business or not, that's ridiculous.

I have never actually eaten there (only go in for takeout). And I always feel like I am in my Mom's attic. I have always been there during the day and it always seems dusty. Can't complain about the food, though!

Ralph Wiggum wrote: Slammed with unanticipated business or not, that's ridiculous.

Ralph,

Unless you have been to Burt's, which is a stripe of a different color, in a very good way, you really can't judge what is ridiculous or not.

I for one would rather dine in a one of a kind place, with one of a kind owner, with one of a kind pizza that knocks my socks off each and every time, than a brutally efficient, sparkling antiseptic pizza emporium where I am assured of a bright shiny everyman experience.

When did we stop appreciating our fellow mans eccentricities?

Regards,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

Ralph Wiggum wrote: Slammed with unanticipated business or not, that's ridiculous.

When did we stop appreciating our fellow mans eccentricities?

In Ralph's defense, the two aren't mutually exclusive. You can call Burt out on his weaknesses and still appreciate them (and him) as unique and charming. I don't know Ralph's overall feelings on Burt's, but by bringing up sparkling antiseptic pizza emporia, I think you're reading much more into his comment than what he wrote. I think the point was simply that just because a place is beloved, that doesn't mean you can't criticize a particular shortcoming, nor should you pretend it doesn't exist (if, in fact, it does).

The notion that Burt should hire some help would be perfectly logical-- somewhere else.

Burt's is Burt's. Staffing up would be like moving to the Old Orchard food court. Blasphemy.

We're just lucky that Burt's response to the uptick in business wasn't closing for three months.

Mike G wrote:We're just lucky that Burt's response to the uptick in business wasn't closing for three months.

Don't give him ideas!!!

Regards,

Dmnkly wrote:I think the point was simply that just because a place is beloved, that doesn't mean you can't criticize a particular shortcoming.

Dom,

Ralph can criticize all he wants, in any fashion he wishes, but to view Burt's in the same frame of reference as other Chicagoland pizza parlors is ridiculous.

Burt's is a love it or hate it kind of place, for example I told the two brothers who own Martin's Men's ware about Burt's. One thought it the best thing since two-toned halava* the other said, and I am easing his comments off a bit, he was not fond of the place.

Enjoy,
Gary

*Quote attributed to the Lovely Donna

Dmnkly wrote:
In Ralph's defense, the two aren't mutually exclusive. You can call Burt out on his weaknesses and still appreciate them (and him) as unique and charming. I don't know Ralph's overall feelings on Burt's, but by bringing up sparkling antiseptic pizza emporia, I think you're reading much more into his comment than what he wrote. I think the point was simply that just because a place is beloved, that doesn't mean you can't criticize a particular shortcoming, nor should you pretend it doesn't exist (if, in fact, it does).

Exactly.

For the record, I haven't been to Burt's. However, the notion that you need to experience the place before you can cast a single dispersion is counter-intuitive if the problems one mentions are inherently prohibitive of dining there. Being told that you have to sit at a table with someone else's dirty dishes for fifteen minutes is a barrier that is unreasonable to ask someone to surpass, especially if they haven't yet experienced what makes the place so spectacular!

And to suggest I'm saying the place needs to be antiseptic is just silly. Grittiness and character are one thing, being unaccommodating is something entirely different.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:For the record, I haven't been to Burt's. However, the notion that you need to experience the place before you can cast a single dispersion is counter-intuitive if the problems one mentions are inherently prohibitive of dining there.

Ralph,

What I am trying to impart, obviously not very well, is that Burt's is unique and one should, if at all possible, experience the place in person prior to casting anything, aspersions included.

If I did not already have plans for tomorrow, Wednesday, at Sun Wah for the GNR award dinner, I'd invite you to Burt's for pizza. Possibly another evening?

Enjoy,
Gary

Thanks Gary. I sincerely appreciate the offer and were it not for the restaurant being in Morton Grove, I'd take you up on it.

I promise that the next time I'm in the burbs near there, I'll check the place out. It's been on my list for a while and I have no doubt that it's revelatory.

I'll even sit at an dirty, un-bussed table for fifteen minutes if need be, in deference to all the good food you've steered me toward over the last three years.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:I'll even sit at an dirty, un-bussed table for fifteen minutes if need be, in deference to all the good food you've steered me toward over the last three years.

Or you could just... stand and wait for the one waitress, Burt's wife, to have enough time after a saveur-induced rush to catch up.

gleam wrote:

Ralph Wiggum wrote:I'll even sit at an dirty, un-bussed table for fifteen minutes if need be, in deference to all the good food you've steered me toward over the last three years.

Or you could just... stand and wait for the one waitress, Burt's wife, to have enough time after a saveur-induced rush to catch up.

I can understand being
overwhelmed at first, but
failing to respond after this
much time, and this many
complaints, seems pretty
inexcusable.

I don't understand the moral
"stand" being made on this issue;
why hiring more help to cover
peak times is such a problem?
If nothing else, I thought they
prided themselves on being
customer-focused and welcoming?

What a shame they're getting
such business.

I love Burt. I love Sharon. I love Buddy. I love the place and love the pizza.

It's not the neatest or tidiest place around. But it's homey--very much like going over to someone's house who may not be the spit and polish, spic and span type.

I would prefer it if it were a little neater. I can't speak to it being clean or not clean, but I would like it more if I experienced fewer examples of what could be seen to be potential indicators of unclean (e.g., schmutz on a glass or fork or plate, unbussed-for-a-long-time dishes, crumbs on the floor and tables, a backyard eating area that doesn't look maintained, etc.)

None of it has stopped me from going. But these things have stopped me from bringing certain other people who I know would not be able to get past these "quirks" to be able to enjoy the food.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:For the record, I haven't been to Burt's. However, the notion that you need to experience the place before you can cast a single dispersion is counter-intuitive if the problems one mentions are inherently prohibitive of dining there.

The problem with commenting on a place that you haven't visited is that you don't know any of the circumstances or conditions relevant to the physical restrictions of the establishment.

Burt's has nine tables that are suited to accommodate a total of 35 customers. There are a few other tables that serve as a central serving station and one in the back corner that is a waiter's station where we take incoming phone calls, calculate checks, and take care of other sundry business necessary to taking care of our customers. All of this, plus a steady stream of carryout customers walking through to pick up their orders, takes place in less than (I am guesstimating here) 600 square feet.

There are Saturday nights when Sharon and I work the floor together and I can tell you definitively, given the space restrictions, it is almost easier to do it alone. The problem comes in with all the extras; answering the telephone, doing all the side work, giving Burt the occasional hand in the kitchen so he can focus on making the pizzas, etc. There are also severe space limitations in kitchen. Hiring additional help who are unfamiliar with the process (Burt likes to call it organized chaos) would only serve to hinder what we are trying to do. There just isn't enough room for two people to be working back there on a regular basis.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:Being told that you have to sit at a table with someone else's dirty dishes for fifteen minutes is a barrier that is unreasonable to ask someone to surpass, especially if they haven't yet experienced what makes the place so spectacular!

That isn't what George was told at all. He was told he would need to stand in our small waiting area until a table was prepared for him; approximately 15 minutes. We do not seat people at dirty tables.

When we are busy we give folks who are waiting for a table a best guess, based on our obligations to our already seated customers and their needs, as to when we will have a table cleaned, set, and "watered" for them. Given the fact that 90% (no exaggeration) of the folks who have been coming to us from the Saveur article, when told during extremely busy periods that a pizza might take a minimum of 60 to 90 minutes (normally about 25 minutes) and their response is a friendly smile and a happy "No problem, we'll wait", a fifteen minute wait for a table is not outrageous.

In fact, without being there; based on 33 years experience as a waiter, I will tell you exactly what happened that night. About an hour and a half before George arrived at the restaurant there was a sudden influx of customers, all sitting and ordering at the same time. Their food was served all together and they all finished, paid their bills, and departed at the same time. Sometime during the middle or toward the end of this first group's attendance, the other three tables that George mentions were still there when he arrived, walked in and service was initiated.

Enter George (to whom I bear no malice). He sees an almost empty restaurant that is filled with unbussed tables and only a few other patrons leading him to believe that the waitress is just too lazy to properly take care of her room. In fact, she was so focused on making her existing customers comfortable, she had not had a chance to clear those just emptied table in preparation for the next round.

Here's the metaphor: Waiting tables at Burt's where we serve as our own host/hostess, order taker, server, and bus boy is kind of like being a juggler. And you, the customers, are the balls. Once you are seated it is the equivalent of the ball being up in the air and it is our responsibility as the juggler to pay attention to you and not let you hit the ground. Any ball that is still on the ground (or customer that is standing in the waiting area) and has not been put into play requires little or no attention until the juggler is ready to add that ball to the rotation. A smart juggler knows his limitations and only adds a new ball when he is sure that it will not adversely effect the other balls that are already up in the air.

You as a customer can either accept or reject that premise as you wish. But I think that an overwhelming majority of our customers will attest that once they have been seated we have given them the best, friendliest, most attentive service we can under occasionally very trying circumstances.

As for the place being a bit timeworn, yeah it is. Probably time for a new carpet, and some fresh drapes in the front window. It might happen, it might not. Other than that though, I'm not sure there's much I'd want to change lest we ruin the "Mom's attic" atmosphere.

Buddy