MBK wrote:id like to point out that the oldest hot dog stand someone listed is Fluky's (1929) and that they do dress hot dogs as RiverWester describes. also, there is at least one poppy sead bun in one of the pictures posted

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the tomato was a relatively recent introduction even for Fluky's, correct?

i'm not sure but if its the 1970s like riverwester says then i wouldn't call that "recent," otherwise you are correct

Of course, Fluky's disagrees with RiverWester on the original toppings:

Fluky's wrote:In 1932, a second Fluky's was opened, and then in 1935, a third and a fourth in 1936. Fluky's became known for its "Depression Sandwich" - a Hot Dog with mustard, relish, onion, pickles, pepper, lettuce, tomatoes and french fries FOR ONLY $.05!

RiverWester wrote: 4 major Chicago hot dog manufacturers: David Berg, Vienna, RedHot, and Fluky's

I don't believe Fluky's manufactures their own hot dogs.

RiverWester wrote:They've had 40 years to get up to speed.

I really fail to see the logic in demanding that everyone adhere to the exact same ideal.

The point isn't "who came first?" but rather "who exists?"

I give up.

Snapped from the front page of Vienna Beef's website thirty seconds ago.

And for the record, this "cranky old-timer" is 30.

This isn't a pissing contest, RiverWester. It's an attempt to look at food history in an intelligent and thoughtful way rather than OMG THIS IS THE ONLY WAY AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS TEH SUXXORS!!!!111!!!

I'll throw some fuel on the fire - I don't care whether or not it's "authentic" (whatever that means) but tomatoes have no bidness bein' on any hot dog I consume. In fact, even if you liked tomatoes on hot dogs, hot dog stand tomatoes tend to be such wan, mealy things that they should never be consumed.

RiverWester wrote:Today, in the 21st Century, if some place is not doing it right, you can be more than likely assured they are simply cutting corners and costs. They've had 40 years to get up to speed.

Succumbing to RiverWester's bleating I'm right, everyone else is wrong I had a full run through the garden at the Lawrence Ave Byron's for lunch.

Byron's Run Through the Garden


Insipid skinless dog, what little sausage flavor there was masked by vegetation, including cold cardboardy tomatoes and watery iceberg lettuce. Reminded me of an American style taco, mediocre quality meat masked by cheese, lettuce and sour cream.

I knew there was a hot dog in there somewhere.


It had been a decade or more since my last Run through the Garden and, despite RiverWester's admonition, I am a natural casing Minimalist Hot Dog man till the day I die.

Give me Mustard, Onions and Sport Pepper or give me hunger.

Enjoy,
Gary

Amen!

No salad on a bun for me. Even if it's a "what your girlfriend wants" salad on a bun from Honky Tonk.

Santander wrote:Even if it's a "what your girlfriend wants" salad on a bun from Honky Tonk.

If she wants it, she can have it...but not me.

I stand corrected. Apparently this is a pissing contest

G Wiv wrote:Byron's Run Through the Garden

Ugh.

Gary, that looks like a plain bun. Is it, or is it poppyseed?

I'd hate to find that Byron's is cutting corners.

gleam wrote:Ugh.

Gary, that looks like a plain bun. Is it, or is it poppyseed?

I'd hate to find that Byron's is cutting corners.

Plain, no poppy seeds, corners were cut.

Now I just feel dirty

Give me my Romper Room moment:

I see green peppers, lettuce, pickle slices, cucumber slices, tomato slices. I see a sport pepper by the fries. Is the red thing sweet red peppers? Any sauerkraut? Any ingredients hidden under another?

Personally I do like the pickle spears that I put aside and eat separately.

Regards,

G Wiv wrote:

gleam wrote:Ugh.

Gary, that looks like a plain bun. Is it, or is it poppyseed?

I'd hate to find that Byron's is cutting corners.

Plain, no poppy seeds, corners were cut.

Now I just feel dirty

No, no... it's not that corners were cut. It's that the point in time at which the Chicago-style dog was "finalized" was 30 years ago, when the International Association of Chicago-Style Dog Officialness declared the recipe complete. Any differences that existed before or after November 7th, 1977 are wrong and not a true Chicago-style dog.

Damn... and I was trying so hard.

I stand corrected. Apparently this is a pissing contest

Or at least a sausage contest. Unbunned.

For the last 20 years (maybe more?) many sushi bars have been putting mayonnaise in their maki. Therefore any sushi bar not using mayonnaise is behind the times and cutting corners and is run by a bunch of cheap asses.

Yikes, what a bizarre argument.

Cathy2 wrote:Any ingredients hidden under another?

C2,

Byron's Run Through the Garden, Lawrence Ave 11.7.07.

steamed no poppy seed bun
skinless hot dog
mustard
relish, green iridescent
lettuce, shredded
bell pepper, sliced
cucumber, sliced
tomato, sliced
pickle, sliced
celery salt

Sport peppers were by request.

Enjoy,
Gary

jesteinf wrote:For the last 20 years (maybe more?) many sushi bars have been putting mayonnaise in their maki. Therefore any sushi bar not using mayonnaise is behind the times and cutting corners and is run by a bunch of cheap asses.

Yikes, what a bizarre argument.

Unless the recipe for sushi was finalized at the same time it was for Chicago-style hot dogs.

Dmnkly wrote:

jesteinf wrote:For the last 20 years (maybe more?) many sushi bars have been putting mayonnaise in their maki. Therefore any sushi bar not using mayonnaise is behind the times and cutting corners and is run by a bunch of cheap asses.

Yikes, what a bizarre argument.

Unless the recipe for sushi was finalized at the same time it was for Chicago-style hot dogs.

Yes, I forgot that at some point in time the recepies for all foods are finalized and are never allowed to change ever ever again. Unless you are a corner cutting cheap ass.

Dmnkly wrote:

jesteinf wrote:For the last 20 years (maybe more?) many sushi bars have been putting mayonnaise in their maki. Therefore any sushi bar not using mayonnaise is behind the times and cutting corners and is run by a bunch of cheap asses.

Yikes, what a bizarre argument.

Unless the recipe for sushi was finalized at the same time it was for Chicago-style hot dogs.

then what constitutes a chicago style dog?

Opinion, casing, and offal.

[Edit: changed it for you, ksbeck]

Santander wrote:Opinion, charnel, and offal.

With the possible exception of charnel, that is a beautiful LTH tagline.

RiverWester wrote:

eatchicago wrote:

RiverWester wrote:

eatchicago wrote: There are many hot dog stands that sell Vienna hot dogs that do not include tomatoes as part of a "hot dog with everything".

They cut corners and they don't do it right.

I dare you to walk into Jimmy's or Gene and Judes and tell them that.

Isn't Jimmy's the place they don't give out ketchup too for the fries? I went there once, never again. Demon Dogs also cut some corners too in that regard

I just read the entire thread - this has to be the post of the thread right here. awesome.

This is the first insult i've ever heard thrown at Jimmy's or Gene and Jude's for cutting corners and not doing it right. Nope. they do it right. promise.

at first i was laughing, now i'm a little disturbed. have some respect - Jimmys and Gene and Jude's are of the greatest establishments in the United States, putting it high in the running for two of the greatest establishments world wide.

this is not debatable.

djenks wrote:

RiverWester wrote:

eatchicago wrote:

RiverWester wrote:

eatchicago wrote: There are many hot dog stands that sell Vienna hot dogs that do not include tomatoes as part of a "hot dog with everything".

They cut corners and they don't do it right.

I dare you to walk into Jimmy's or Gene and Judes and tell them that.

Isn't Jimmy's the place they don't give out ketchup too for the fries? I went there once, never again. Demon Dogs also cut some corners too in that regard

I just read the entire thread - this has to be the post of the thread right here. awesome.

This is the first insult i've ever heard thrown at Jimmy's or Gene and Jude's for cutting corners and not doing it right. Nope. they do it right. promise.

at first i was laughing, now i'm a little disturbed. have some respect - Jimmys and Gene and Jude's are of the greatest establishments in the United States, putting it high in the running for two of the greatest establishments world wide.

this is not debatable.

Vienna Beef sells hot dogs, if you're stand can sell hundreds of thousands of hot dogs even if you put green peppers and lettuce on your hotdogs... you're in the hall of fame... http://www.viennabeef.com/culture/fame/index.asp?pg=2

I've always that that the "Chicago Hot Dog" with tomato, pickle spear, poppy seed bun is akin to deep dish pizza, identifiable to those outside... but just as the seemingly inside secret Chicago love of cracker thin crust pizza the mustard onion and relish topped with fries is truly "Chicago Style" without all the hoopla and style and diagrams.

Jimmy's, Gene and Jude's, are institutions for a reason and I don't think people are just so used to getting ripped off that they can't help themselves.

Speaking of artistic depictions of chicago style hot dogs, I note that of the signs in the hall of fame where you can actually tell how the dog is dressed, 6 have tomatoes/pickle and 6 are of the more minimalist school.

You guys are killing me.

It's also worth noting, RiverWester, that if Vienna is one of the official arbiters of what defines a Chicago-style dog, their "Periodic Table of Chicago Style Hot Dog Condiments" on their website includes...

...wait for it...

...ketchup.



I had no idea a Chicago-style dog included ketchup!

nono, you see, the ketchup part is not connected, its like an isotope or something

MBK wrote:nono, you see, the ketchup part is not connected, its like an isotope or something

I agree, it's set apart somewhat -- the work of a Chicago artist who couldn't bear to connect it with the others, perhaps? -- and yet there it is, an official Vienna Chicago Style Hot Dog Condiment.