Subzero---I wish i never knew ya

Two years ago when my wife and i moved to the suburbs we were so excited about our beautiful new kitchen, and the holy grail of refrigerators, a Subzero built-in.

Not two months after we moved in, literarally the day after I declared it the "greatest fridge" ever constructed, things began to go downhill.

Now after two years, two fridge compressers and a freezer thing-a-magigie the beast is on the fritz again. another fridge full of food ruined and of course it happened on a sat night/sun morning when service is not available. Just my luck, the warranty runs out next month--parts only, which means they give you the parts that they repace at half price--and i am stuck fixing this thing because it is built in to my cherry cabinets. I am at my wits end. I have spent at least $2000 fixing this thing so far and that is with the crap warranty. What i would give for my parents side by side amana in banana yellow right now---that beauty lasted 25 years.

Word to the wise....if you are drooling over the Subs at Abt, keep walking...they are not worth the trouble.

I'll reiterate what I said on my kitchen building epic here:

If you're lookiing for a large counter-depth fridge, look at the twin units from Frigidaire and Whirlpool. Both get rated higher by Consumer Reports than Sub-Z in terms of repair record, and it'll cost you 1/2 to 1/3 the price. They're going to be a bit deeper, and not as tall, but you'll have a more reliable box. I don't remember which brand has a trim kit that makes it look like a Sub-Z (grill for the top that meets your cabinets).

I've been in the kitchen business for going on 18 years now and I you are the first person I have ever heard of who has had such problems with a Subzero. Two compressor failures in two years?!? That is unheard of in my experience, literally, I know the Subzero reps and have seen my share of problems with the fridges but NEVER that.

Also, I live in Northfield and when we had the big windstorm over the summer I was without power for 6 days. My food was fine for 3 days in my cheapo fridge, then it started going bad but I had plenty of time to cook up all the meat. Did your fridge somehow start heating up your food so it all went bad in less than 24 hours?

In all seriousness, please let us know what model number you have and how it's installed. I really want to know, I have had customers going for the Thermador/Gaggenau built ins as well as the Dacors for the aesthetics, but even the Thermador reps admit that the SZ are some well built tanks.

We have a Frigidaire that seems to do what a refrigerator should do--keep food cold! So this thread gives me a chance to ask a question I've wondered about for a long time.

What is about SubZeros and other "professional" brands that makes them desirable to some people? Do they actually perform their task of keeping food cold better than garden-variety refrigerators that keep food cold? (Non-rhetorical question; they might actually perform better in some way I can't fathom--so I'm looking to be educated here.) Or is it just that they hold more food? I mean, I get that reason, if you need that much food storage. But if Amana, Frigidaire, et. al. made a refrigerator with the same cubic feet (and I'm sure they do, now), would a SubZero actually be better in some way?

I'm not talking about frequency-of-repair record; apparently, it's acknowledged that SubZero is inferior in that regard. I'm talking about performance. Is there anything in the way a SubZero keeps food cold that justifies the price premium over other refrigerators that keep food cold?

Hardly the same, but even after about 10 visits from a SZ repair man to look at the ice dispenser on our fridge at the office, they still can't make it not suck.

We now have the ice dispenser completely covered so people don't accidentally try to use it. If you do, it never stops dispensing ice, shooting them onto the floor forever.

We have friends here in Bucktown who were so excited to have a Sub-Zero but they also had the same problems - dead compressors, food ruined, etc. So they sold it and got another brand and are much happier.

(yes, there are some sorts of failures that will heat the insides up)

See that surprises me. My MIL had a 632 that worked non stop for 33 years till we replaced it with a new model. I had a SZ in my house in Evanston that was installed in 1987 and when I sold the place in 2000 it was still going strong.

The biggest difference I see in the higher end models is that the separate compressors keep the freezer and fridge air separate. This allows for greater control of temperature as well as keeping odors from infiltrating the freezer. If money were no object and I was buying a new kitchen I would probably go for the THermador, they are Very well made.

Commiserating with your Sub-Z problems. We had a stainless KA side by side before we renovated our kitchen and decided to keep it rather than buy a new sub-Z despite the insistent urgings of our kitchen designer. Must say we heard many of the same complaints then that I've read here tonight.

Good luck with it.

Octarine wrote:In all seriousness, please let us know what model number you have and how it's installed.

I am not sure if this is the model number, but i found something that says R134A with a Refrigeration system 511. The unit is 1o years old apparently and is installed into custom cabinetwork.

iblock9 wrote:

Octarine wrote:In all seriousness, please let us know what model number you have and how it's installed.

I am not sure if this is the model number, but i found something that says R134A with a Refrigeration system 511. The unit is 1o years old apparently and is installed into custom cabinetwork.

R134A is the refrigerant (Tetrafluoroethane) in the cooling system. Don't know enough about SubZero's to know if 511 might be your model number or not.

Just to add data points - while I am not a SZ owner I do know more than one person that has had compressor failures in their units as well. As I plan out my next home SZ has fallen off the list of desired appliances.

I am not real familiar with Subzero. Most of the people whose kitchens that I have seen them - they seem to be the THING in kitchens in the mansions in McHenry Co. = are show kitchens. You know, phenomenal kitchens better than some of the commercial kitchens that I have worked in ... yet when you arrive, all the food is purchased from Costco and reheated.

Personally, I have been unimpressed with Whirlpool quality. In August, my ice maker crapped out spewing water all over the floor and causing $4500 in damages to the condo. Ten days ago, I get a Christmas letter from some friends in Eastern Kentucky who had the same thing happen to their Whirlpool last summer.

The problem is that most of us had LOW-TECH refrigerator freezers in the past. My in-laws two freezers were not from the Clinton administration but the Eisenhower administration and they continue to function quite well. However, you add in all these controls, all these new features - most are not even used by many customers.

Before buying a refrigeration unit, ignore all the sales hype,, all the slick brochures. GO down to your favorite appliance repair place (especially an independent) and ask the repair guys what they like (and are having problems with). You will hear a lot of interesting stories about some of the bigger brands.

In our kitchen remodel last year, I drooled over the Sub-Zeros, but ended up getting a Kitchen-Aid built in instead. It just seemed more solid and (if anything) it had more room that the SZ. We are very happy with it and have had no problems other than having the freezer compressor go into overdrive once because something was blocking the temp sensor. It cooled down to -15 before I noticed anything was amiss.

How old is the Sub Zero in question?
It may be possible the quality of these has declined in recent years.
I feel this is what has happened with my Land Rover - a once respected brand that isn't nearly as reliable as in the past.
My next vehicle will be an early 70's Bronco.
Perhaps there is something to be said about our parents' hulking avocado workhorse of a fridge...

Steve, I wish you better luck with your Kitchen Aid than mine. Cross my fingers, it's settled down with some kid glove treatment, but we had the service guy out too many times to count in the first two years.

Words to the wise, do refrigerate the coils regularly and don't load the shelves on the door to capacity. Ignore this advice at your peril.

MAG wrote:Words to the wise, do refrigerate the coils regularly

Melissa,

What does this mean?

At the top of your refrigerator, there should be panel that covers the refrigerator coils, you need to remove it and vacuum those with a hose on a fairly regular basis. In fact, the repair guys will tell you to do it once a month.

On the door thing, if you fill the shelves to capacity, the weight will actually shift door downwards eventually and the hinges will need to be repaired (not under warranty of course). Also, one more word to the wise, when your warranty expires, extend it if you haven't already purchased an extended warranty. It will likely pay off.

johnny wrote:How old is the Sub Zero in question?

10 or 11 years

I feel this is what has happened with my Land Rover

Funny my most recent Land Rover is the most reliable Land Rover i have owned in the past decade (and ive owned a few )

I also have been told to vacuum the coils etc near the compressor unit and clean the vent which i do on a regular basis. The service tech is coming today and I will let you know what transpires

Here's a different refrigerator question, which I ask seriously, even though it sounds like something Steven Wright might pose:

Whirlpool has come out with a complete line of products to outfit and organize your garage, and one of the items in a heavy-duty refrigerator built specifically for garage use. My question is, does it keep food cold the way normal refrigerators do or, in winter when it's below freezing outside, does it keep food warmer than the outdoor/garage temperature? If so, how?

Olde School wrote:Here's a different refrigerator question, which I ask seriously, even though it sounds like something Steven Wright might pose:

Whirlpool has come out with a complete line of products to outfit and organize your garage, and one of the items in a heavy-duty refrigerator built specifically for garage use. My question is, does it keep food cold the way normal refrigerators do or, in winter when it's below freezing outside, does it keep food warmer than the outdoor/garage temperature? If so, how?

The webpagefor one of these fridges indicates that it has a heater for extreme cold temperatures.

Yep...third compressor in 18 months. The repair guy is impressed with how clean i keep the condensor. He also confirmed that I have a 10 year old model 511 and this is the first time he has ever seen someone go through 3 fridge and one freezer compressor in 18 mos. Hopefully Subzero corporate can do something to help me with my expiring warranty...otherwise I guess i should pull this thing out the next time it goes kaput.

iblock9 wrote:Hopefully Subzero corporate can do something to help me with my expiring warranty...otherwise I guess i should pull this thing out the next time it goes kaput.

Just a suggestion - you may want to write Subzero's corporate offices directly (customer service or legal department), prior to the expiration of the warranty, and concisely describe your experiences. State in the letter's "re" line that this is a "Claim for Damages." State that the problems are covered by the express warranty and began prior to expiration of the warranty. State that the problems were not resolved and continue. State that the both the express and implied warranties pursuant to the law were breached (they'll know what you're talking about). Ask them to either (1) send someone from their company directly to repair and/or replace the refrigerator at their cost; or (2) refund a specific dollar amount which you'd like refunded by a certain date (attach receipts if you have them). You might have to follow-up a few times. It's worth a try. Good luck.

aschie30 wrote:

iblock9 wrote:Hopefully Subzero corporate can do something to help me with my expiring warranty...otherwise I guess i should pull this thing out the next time it goes kaput.

Just a suggestion - you may want to write Subzero's corporate offices directly (customer service or legal department), prior to the expiration of the warranty, and concisely describe your experiences. State in the letter's "re" line that this is a "Claim for Damages." State that the problems are covered by the express warranty and began prior to expiration of the warranty. State that the problems were not resolved and continue. State that the both the express and implied warranties pursuant to the law were breached (they'll know what you're talking about). Ask them to either (1) send someone from their company directly to repair and/or replace the refrigerator at their cost; or (2) refund a specific dollar amount which you'd like refunded by a certain date (attach receipts if you have them). You might have to follow-up a few times. It's worth a try. Good luck.

Just a note that before you try a letter of this effect, often times a phone call or a polite e-mail is generally a better place to start.

Without turning this thread into a legal advice column, I'll just say that while I agree with much of what was just said, I think you should precede that letter with one giving them the chance to do the right thing. My experience with the soft approach has been pretty good. Tell 'em what's happened, tell 'em what the repairman said, and ask if they would like to (1) fix it right once and for all, (2) replace it, or (3) option of your choice. Be reasonable. As Mom always said, you catch more flies with honey. Starting the correspondence on a threatening note may work but it may also backfire and this ain't likely to be a cheap discussion.

jpschust wrote:

aschie30 wrote:

iblock9 wrote:Hopefully Subzero corporate can do something to help me with my expiring warranty...otherwise I guess i should pull this thing out the next time it goes kaput.

Just a suggestion - you may want to write Subzero's corporate offices directly (customer service or legal department), prior to the expiration of the warranty, and concisely describe your experiences. State in the letter's "re" line that this is a "Claim for Damages." State that the problems are covered by the express warranty and began prior to expiration of the warranty. State that the problems were not resolved and continue. State that the both the express and implied warranties pursuant to the law were breached (they'll know what you're talking about). Ask them to either (1) send someone from their company directly to repair and/or replace the refrigerator at their cost; or (2) refund a specific dollar amount which you'd like refunded by a certain date (attach receipts if you have them). You might have to follow-up a few times. It's worth a try. Good luck.

Just a note that before you try a letter of this effect, often times a phone call or a polite e-mail is generally a better place to start.

To be clear, I'm not in any way suggesting anyone be impolite - simply concise and professional. I would disagree that a phone call is a "better" place to start. Often, phone calls to customer service centers are not returned and, if returned, not for several days, if not weeks. A phone call and a letter is fine - but with an expiring warranty approaching, I'd want to make sure they heard from me in writing prior to the expiration of the warranty. Just my two cents.

MAG wrote:At the top of your refrigerator, there should be panel that covers the refrigerator coils, you need to remove it and vacuum those with a hose on a fairly regular basis. In fact, the repair guys will tell you to do it once a month.

Oh, OK. That makes sense. I just couldn't decode what you meant by "refrigerate the coils regularly". Thanks for the tip!

update--Sterling Service, the sub service subcontractor had their own parts and service warranty and since i had this work done previously within the warranty period, they picked up the $800 fee. Nice people.

Hopefully SuBzero believes in the corporate good neighbor way of doing business. Most high end manufacturers dont get to where sub is without decent customer service. If not ill put my law degree to some use.

jlawrence01 wrote:I am not real familiar with Subzero. Most of the people whose kitchens that I have seen them - they seem to be the THING in kitchens in the mansions in McHenry Co. = are show kitchens. You know, phenomenal kitchens better than some of the commercial kitchens that I have worked in ... yet when you arrive, all the food is purchased from Costco and reheated.

If I remember my Thorstein Veblen, this would actually make a Subzero better in its function of conspicuous consumption. If an expensive object has actual increased utility or performance superiority over an inexpensive one, it does not function well as a status symbol. (The extra money has clearly been spent to obtain actual advantages.) It's when you spend four times as much for something compared to something else that works equally well for your purposes that you are engaging in conspicuous consumption at its finest. So the Subzero is doing a bangup job of giving these people what they paid for.

HI,

When we bought our house in 1970, the kitchen cabinets had been installed the year before. The appliances were at least 10 years old. We had a double refrigerator (upper and lower doors) with a tiny freezer in the bottom unit we never used. We also had a large stand alone freezer, too.

While on vacation in 1977, the upper unit died and the lower was just getting by. The only refrigerator that would fit the slot without a potentially ugly cabinet rework was a Sub Zero. I opted for the all-refrigerator since we already had a full freezer in the same room. I placed an order in August, then got on a waiting list. It arrived just before Thanksgiving for a cost of $1000.

Upon arrival, I then heard from a number of people the compressor would be an issue. It was finally retired about a year ago with the original compressor on life-support. Over the years, we replaced the door seals several times. We once replaced the refrigerant coils in the rear for a lofty $600. We were postponed the inevitable for another 10 years with that repair, which ultimately was worth it.

While I would have comfortably purchased a Sub Zero again. I bought a Northland all-refrigerator with the compressor on top. This design allows several cubic feet more of space.

While anyone can have a problem with an appliance, there are usually far more who are quietly quite happy.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:While anyone can have a problem with an appliance, there are usually far more who are quietly quite happy.

I am sure there are lots of happy SubZero owners out there, they are a popular brand and people seem to like the product. Replacing three compressors for the fridge and one for the freezer in 18 mos is noteworthy, which is why i made this post. I just wanted to share my experience, I hope i didnt come off like a griping grouch.

iblock9 wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:While anyone can have a problem with an appliance, there are usually far more who are quietly quite happy.

I am sure there are lots of happy SubZero owners out there, they are a popular brand and people seem to like the product. Replacing three compressors for the fridge and one for the freezer in 18 mos is noteworthy, which is why i made this post. I just wanted to share my experience, I hope i didnt come off like a griping grouch.

Hi,

Don't worry about it. I was warned back in 1977 about the compressor, though mine died of really old age.

Regards,