iblock9, you have my sympathy.

I'm not surprised to hear of your problems with Sub-zero. For years Consumer Reports has noted that some of the most expensive kitchen appliances have the poorest reliability. They base this on surveys of the magazine's subscribers so it's as accurate as anything out there. Also, Consumer Reports won't take advertising so they can be independent in their judgments. I'm pretty sure they reported Sub-zero has a poor track record.

Also, my appliance guy long ago told me that he has fixed a lot of Sub-zeros over the years. He tells people with Sub-zeros that he can replace their failed compressor with an original Sub-zero unit which he thinks is junk and it will cost them over a grand, or he will install a generic compressor for several hundred dollars which he has found to be reliable.

I hope you are able to get satisfaction from Sub-zero under the warranty.

Thank-you for your post on your experience with sub zero. We're planning to remodel later this year(twins are leaving for college) and I will definitely look around. I'll probably need to consult a kitchen designer to help me plan and see if the commercial grade (my husband's idea) can work in a residential kitchen.

helen wrote:Thank-you for your post on your experience with sub zero. We're planning to remodel later this year(twins are leaving for college) and I will definitely look around. I'll probably need to consult a kitchen designer to help me plan and see if the commercial grade (my husband's idea) can work in a residential kitchen.

Go to ABT and let them show you what is available. They are very helpful and quite knowledgeable. They also sell just about every brand except for Kenmore (Sears and K-Mart only), so they don't necessarily favor one brand over another. They'll make recommendations based on your needs. Let me know when you are going and I'll hook you up with someone who did a great job helping us out with our remodel.

stevez wrote:Go to ABT and let them show you what is available. They are very helpful and quite knowledgeable. They also sell just about every brand except for Kenmore (Sears and K-Mart only), so they don't necessarily favor one brand over another. They'll make recommendations based on your needs. Let me know when you are going and I'll hook you up with someone who did a great job helping us out with our remodel.

Thanks Steve. I will let you know as we get closer to finalizing our plans.

FYI. Kenmore is a private label Sears brand. MOST Kenmore products are produced by Whirlpool and are very similar to other Whirlpool products in form and function.

jlawrence01's remarks on the Sears/Whirlpool relationship are correct.

Further to reliability: Last night I checked my file of old Consumer Reports. The most recent full report on refrigerators is August 2007.

According to CR, Sub-zero refrigerators were more likely to need repairs than any other brand. Among refrigerators purchased between 2002 and 2006, 24% of Sub-zeros either had a major repair or had a significant problem which went un-repaired. Next worst was 20%. The best figure was 3%.

The tables were broken down by type of refrigerator (side-by-side vs. top or bottom freezer. Also, they separated out those with ice makers from those without. (Ice-makers seem to add substantially to the need for repairs.)

Among the better brands were Kenmore, Whirlpool, GE and Hotpoint (GE's inexpensive brand) though it varied depending on the type of refrigerator.

As mentioned before, the data comes from Consumer Reports' survey of its three million subscribers.

Obviously the report is too complex to cover fully here. Most libraries have it available. Otherwise, it is on-line (subscription required).

Hope this helps.

George R wrote:jlawrence01's remarks on the Sears/Whirlpool relationship are correct.

I have worked for one of the major components suppliers in the appliance industry. IMO, anyone looking for a Whirlpool appliance should also shop at Sears and compare the Kenmore brand to see if there is much of a price difference. Do realize that nearly ALL makes and models utilize components made by 2-3 components manufacturers (much like PCs) and the OEMs award the contracts to the low cost producers.

Personally, I believe very strongly in the KISS principle. That is, keep your appliances LESS complex and they'll need fewer repairs and less service. Personally, when my current monster is replaced, I will be purchasing a machine without a ice/water dispenser and without an automatic ice maker both of which are a real PITA as the machines get older. And I am looking for a refrigerator that is powered on natural gas like some of the ones I have seen back in Ohio.

In good conscience, I would NOT recommend using Sears Home Service to repair an appliance despite its pedigree (unless you are under warranty). They tend to be more expensive and less prepared to repair an appliance which may mean 2-3 visits to your house. Also, they are unwilling to work on multiple appliances on a single service call. (For example, when I have my HVAC guy come in annually each autumn prior to heating system, I have him check ALL gas appliances as well as the furnace for gas and CO issues.)

jlawrence01 - Thanks for the tip about Sears Home Service.

I'm with you 100% on the KISS principle. We will be replacing our frig soon and definitely will keep it simple.

jlawrence01 wrote:

George R wrote:jlawrence01's remarks on the Sears/Whirlpool relationship are correct.

In good conscience, I would NOT recommend using Sears Home Service to repair an appliance despite its pedigree (unless you are under warranty). They tend to be more expensive and less prepared to repair an appliance which may mean 2-3 visits to your house. Also, they are unwilling to work on multiple appliances on a single service call. (For example, when I have my HVAC guy come in annually each autumn prior to heating system, I have him check ALL gas appliances as well as the furnace for gas and CO issues.)

I, too, have heard bad things about Sears appliance installation & repair. I had a co-worker who lived in an older home, bought a new non-Kenmore washer & dryer from Sears. The delivery/installation guy refused to even bring the washer & dryer down into the basement because he said her connections were outdated and they wouldn't work with the machines.

She returned them, went to Abt, bought the same set, paid less and the guys brought the set down and had connected in minutes, no problem.

When we bought our Whirlpool refrigerator/freezer from Abt, we had forgotten the measurements of the space when we went in to buy. I was 99% sure of what the width was, and that was the dimension that mattered. Crossed our fingers it would fit. The delivery guys showed up, one of them about the same size as the fridge. They had to take the electrical panel door off the wall to slide it straight back, as well as the baseboard trim, then shim it on the side, but damn, they got it in. Now we just have to move out before that thing breaks because it ain't comin' back out without a big mess!!

I think the KISS principle is sound - I was in the market for a new oven, and turned to Consumer Reports for guidance. The worse repair record? Viking.

I ended up getting a Hotpoint, and it has served me well.

I guess I've heard that Porsches and Ferraris have horrible service records, so maybe it's the notion that performance is gained at the expense of reliability, but I can't stomach it.

Update

SubZero declined to extend what is left of my warranty which expires at the end of next month. I guess I need to consider replacing the unit if the condensor craps out again. Unfortunately, the only fridge that will fit in the space where my current beast resides, without a major cabinet remodel, is a Subzero 611. Oh well[/i]

Hi,

How wide is the 611?

Regards,

29-1/4"W x 84"Tx23-1/2"D
I remember There being one that will fit but I am blanking on it, I'll ask my appliance guy in the morning ( he sits 20' from my desk)

dfawley wrote:I guess I've heard that Porsches and Ferraris have horrible service records, so maybe it's the notion that performance is gained at the expense of reliability, but I can't stomach it.

The luxury performance vehicles are very expensive to maintain as you are asking the engine and components to perform at a much higher level than the average Toyota Camry. Also, such a performance engine requires a more technically proficient mechanic and tools for maximum performance.

Where the analogy breaks down IMO is that the SubZero is fundamentally performing the same function as the much cheaper Whirlpool.

jlawrence01 wrote:Where the analogy breaks down IMO is that the SubZero is fundamentally performing the same function as the much cheaper Whirlpool.

That's true, but I bet a Viking puts out more BTUs than my Hotpoint. That being said, I've digressed enough.

Octarine wrote:29-1/4"W x 84"Tx23-1/2"D
I remember There being one that will fit but I am blanking on it, I'll ask my appliance guy in the morning ( he sits 20' from my desk)

I bought a Northland refrigerator that fit the slot my Sub-Zero all-refrigerator used to fit. It has the compressor on top allowing roughly 4 cubic feet more storage space.

Regards,

jlawrence01 wrote:

dfawley wrote:I guess I've heard that Porsches and Ferraris have horrible service records, so maybe it's the notion that performance is gained at the expense of reliability, but I can't stomach it.

The luxury performance vehicles are very expensive to maintain as you are asking the engine and components to perform at a much higher level than the average Toyota Camry. Also, such a performance engine requires a more technically proficient mechanic and tools for maximum performance.

Where the analogy breaks down IMO is that the SubZero is fundamentally performing the same function as the much cheaper Whirlpool.

A Sub Zero has two compressors. A normal refrigerator has one. Since this is the most common repair, I can see that the repair rate could be twice the average. In addition, sub-zeros have special sealing mechanisms when you close the doors (fridge and freezer) to create an air-tight seal so that they can better regulate temperature. This is a complex mechanism, not found on standard refrigerators, that is also the source of many reparis. As a built-in unit, installation is also much more difficult that a stand-alone unit, so installations by less experienced contractors lead to many problems.

I think the Porsche/Ferrari analogy is a good one. A Sub Zero is much more complex than a standard fridge. Whether those technical benefits really matter to the people who buy them is up for debate, but the same can be said for Ferrari owners who spend more time parking their cars in front of Gibsons than plying the highways at 150 mph. And at any rate, if you look at their web site, even Sub Zero acknowledges that their appliances are as much about interior design and image as any technical advantage.

iblock9 wrote:Update

SubZero declined to extend what is left of my warranty which expires at the end of next month. I guess I need to consider replacing the unit if the condensor craps out again. Unfortunately, the only fridge that will fit in the space where my current beast resides, without a major cabinet remodel, is a Subzero 611. Oh well[/i]

Is there such a thing as a lemon law for appliances?