stevez wrote:

deke rivers wrote:i believe Honey 1 , Smoque, and even Sweet Baby Rays offers the " 4 food groups"..which includes pulled pork and brisket...

Honey 1 does not offer brisket as a regular menu item.

i stand corrected..my point is lack of or absence of pork and brisket does not constitute 'Chicago BBQ"..and wonder bread can be had in just about every authentic bbq joint across the country

deke rivers wrote:

G Wiv wrote:

KSeecs wrote:To me...those split open links look like a travesty. In both pictures they look dry as can be. If you are smoking a sausage there is no reason it should ever bust open to that extent, unless the temperature is way too high.

I have not been to Smokin M's, but did wish to point out that cutting links lengthwise just prior to service is a fairly common style decision amongst BBQ joints, Lem's for example. I mean this as simply a data point, if Hammond says astoundingly dry, I'm thinking Sahara.

David Hammond wrote:My whole chicken looked pretty good…but it wasn’t quite cooked, very chewy and stringy. I took a lot of it home, but The Wife made me dump it. It was red at the bone, not pink from the smoke, blood red.

Though the chicken may simply have been undercooked, another possible cause of red at the bone is much of the chicken we consume today is quite young even though, due to various hormones and breeding techniques, they are market size.

Often the bone is underdeveloped and somewhat porous allowing marrow to seep out through the bone. The red marrow, especially in conjunction with color from the smoke ring, can give the impression that fully cooked chicken is undercooked.

Info about chicken, bones and blood, along with a few mildly gross pictures, can be found here

Enjoy,
Gary

gotta agree Gary..even properly smoked chicken can have red at the bone..but the tough to chew and stringy along with the red makes me think this was in fact undercooked

Quite correct. I was not basing my assessment simply on the coloration around the bone; the meat itself was not cooked, and one could figure that out blindfolded.

Dave- i gotta say all one has to do is look at that pic to agree with you..if you cant get fresh or the best food at lunch time..then whats the point?

deke rivers wrote:Dave- i gotta say all one has to do is look at that pic to agree with you..if you cant get fresh or the best food at lunch time..then whats the point?

I for one, would enjoy the heck outta this place if they could get a decent technique going. There are a few aquarium smoker q joints in that neck of the woods, but so far, I'd rather do my own, or head down to UJ's for GOOD stuff. In my humble bar-b-kettle, I can do some good work, it ain't too hard, but there have been a few times where I had the heat too high, and learned how to pay better attention, and now I pretty much got the hang of using it for smoking. I'm just hoping that they will make the necessary adjustments in due time, and start putting out a decent product on a consistent basis. The place IS new. I'm rooting for them. You gotta assume that they invested in that smoker to do it right. (Although this city / area has always had its share of failures due to less than appropriate skill sets in the kitchen.) I'll be giving them every opportunity to impress me somehow. - I can always get some tip / spare therapy in my back yard, or down on 69th street.

Go Smokin' M's!!

deke rivers wrote:
i stand corrected..my point is lack of or absence of pork and brisket does not constitute 'Chicago BBQ"..and wonder bread can be had in just about every authentic bbq joint across the country

I didn't say it does, either. My point was that aquarium smoker Chicago-style barbecue is centered around ribs, rib tips, hot links, and perhaps chicken. Shoulder and brisket is not a usual item to find, in my experience in South Side or West Side BBQ joints. Pulled pork was a relatively new addition to Honey 1's menu. And none of the other aquarium smoker places I could think of -- Barbara Ann's, Lem's, Uncle John's, Leon's, I-57 Rib House, Exsenators, Ribs & Bibs, Hecky's, etc. -- serve brisket or pork. (I think Uncle John's has brisket now, but to my understanding it's not a smoked product, right?) At least if they do, I've never noticed it on the menu.

All I'm saying is that it's hardly unusual to find a Chicago aquarium smoker BBQ shack around here that does not serve pulled pork or brisket. I'd say it's the exception not the rule. And it appears to me from the description that this place is trying to replicate this particular style of Chicago barbecue.

Agreed, Binko. Good examples and summary.

Binko wrote:

deke rivers wrote:
i stand corrected..my point is lack of or absence of pork and brisket does not constitute 'Chicago BBQ"..and wonder bread can be had in just about every authentic bbq joint across the country

I didn't say it does, either. My point was that aquarium smoker Chicago-style barbecue is centered around ribs, rib tips, hot links, and perhaps chicken. Shoulder and brisket is not a usual item to find, in my experience in South Side or West Side BBQ joints. Pulled pork was a relatively new addition to Honey 1's menu. And none of the other aquarium smoker places I could think of -- Barbara Ann's, Lem's, Uncle John's, Leon's, I-57 Rib House, Exsenators, Ribs & Bibs, Hecky's, etc. -- serve brisket or pork. (I think Uncle John's has brisket now, but to my understanding it's not a smoked product, right?) At least if they do, I've never noticed it on the menu.

All I'm saying is that it's hardly unusual to find a Chicago aquarium smoker BBQ shack around here that does not serve pulled pork or brisket. I'd say it's the exception not the rule. And it appears to me from the description that this place is trying to replicate this particular style of Chicago barbecue.

understood..I guess my biggest beef is do we really need yet another one of these type places when we got places like Smoque who are trying resally hard to change the face of BBQ in Chicago . Why open yet another "Chicago style BBQ" on Roosevelt when you got Charlie Robinsons 5 min away from this place if you want ribs, tips, and links? I had heard about this place opening up awhile back and thought we might finally get some good BBQ in the burbs.
I think this guy missed the boat and could have brought something really good to the table BBQ wise to an area starved for this type thing.

deke rivers wrote:understood..I guess my biggest beef is do we really need yet another one of these type places when we got places like Smoque who are trying resally hard to change the face of BBQ in Chicago . Why open yet another "Chicago style BBQ" on Roosevelt when you got Charlie Robinsons 5 min away from this place if you want ribs, tips, and links?

Chicago needs, and should want, all the traditional Chicago Aquarium smoker BBQ style joints it can get, what we don't need, or at least I don't, is yet another mechanical Q joint where the monthly wood allowance is less than the ketchup for hot dog budget.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

deke rivers wrote:understood..I guess my biggest beef is do we really need yet another one of these type places when we got places like Smoque who are trying resally hard to change the face of BBQ in Chicago . Why open yet another "Chicago style BBQ" on Roosevelt when you got Charlie Robinsons 5 min away from this place if you want ribs, tips, and links?

Chicago needs, and should want, all the traditional Chicago Aquarium smoker BBQ style joints it can get, what we don't need, or at least I don't, is yet another mechanical Q joint where the monthly wood allowance is less than the ketchup for hot dog budget.

Enjoy,
Gary

why??? I think we got a big enough glut of those type places
dont you?
Why wouldnt you rather see a decent BBQ place in Chicago that opens up the whole BBQ world to Chicago besides ribs and tips? It can be done without being mechanical
you of all people should welcome that concept I would think

deke rivers wrote:Why open yet another "Chicago style BBQ" on Roosevelt when you got Charlie Robinsons 5 min away from this place if you want ribs, tips, and links? I had heard about this place opening up awhile back and thought we might finally get some good BBQ in the burbs.
I think this guy missed the boat and could have brought something really good to the table BBQ wise to an area starved for this type thing.

While I do see your point with it being another "Chicago aquarium q joint" as opposed to a different style of q joint, I would add that IMHO Robinson's has been absolutely horrendous for at least ten years. If SM's can hone its technique down to start churning out a respectable product, I'd assume they would do VERY well, as Coleman's in Maywood is really the only other place for decent Aqua Q in this area if you ask me. If your only real competition in the area is Russell's*, Robinson's, Coleman's, Hillary and Cook's, and Joe's, then another Aqua Q place should thrive (if it's done right) IMHO. If the owner is not familiar with brisket, or pulled pork, then I don't think it would have been wise for them to take on the Famous Dave's a little bit south of there. If M's can start doing Chicago Q right, I'll be happy they came.

*Russell's is not Aqua Q, but does advertise itself as a bar b q place. Pretty sure they just place BBQ sauce on meat and then call it bbq.

seebee wrote:*Russell's is not Aqua Q, but does advertise itself as a bar b q place. Pretty sure they just place BBQ sauce on meat and then call it bbq.

Russell's doesn't smoke their meat at all. They use the term "BBQ" in a very loose sense.

seebee wrote:

deke rivers wrote:Why open yet another "Chicago style BBQ" on Roosevelt when you got Charlie Robinsons 5 min away from this place if you want ribs, tips, and links? I had heard about this place opening up awhile back and thought we might finally get some good BBQ in the burbs.
I think this guy missed the boat and could have brought something really good to the table BBQ wise to an area starved for this type thing.

While I do see your point with it being another "Chicago aquarium q joint" as opposed to a different style of q joint, I would add that IMHO Robinson's has been absolutely horrendous for at least ten years. If SM's can hone its technique down to start churning out a respectable product, I'd assume they would do VERY well, as Coleman's in Maywood is really the only other place for decent Aqua Q in this area if you ask me. If your only real competition in the area is Russell's*, Robinson's, Coleman's, Hillary and Cook's, and Joe's, then another Aqua Q place should thrive (if it's done right) IMHO. If the owner is not familiar with brisket, or pulled pork, then I don't think it would have been wise for them to take on the Famous Dave's a little bit south of there. If M's can start doing Chicago Q right, I'll be happy they came.

*Russell's is not Aqua Q, but does advertise itself as a bar b q place. Pretty sure they just place BBQ sauce on meat and then call it bbq.

I have had Robinsons on occasion and its notthat bad..not that good either but thats my point....its sad when places like Famous Daves can thrive. The lot is always full and the Q is mediocre at best.

Now i grew up on Russells..doesnt mean I liked it either..most times it was a place to stop half drunk while on the way somewhere else
i often wondered why they claimed it was BBQ

Deke -

Actually, I sort of see what you're saying. I wouldn't really say there's a "glut" of these BBQ places, at least not good ones. Personally, I can only think of four really good traditional Chicago places, and three of them are a trek to the deep South Side (UJ's, BA's, Lem's) and there's Honey 1.

However, it would be interesting if someone could make a good hybrid of tradition and sit-down comfort. Like a place that uses the traditional Chicago techniques, aquarium smoker and all, but expands it with the sort of meats, side dishes, service, etc., one would expect in a sit-down BBQ place like Fat Willy's or whatnot.

Or would this be pretty difficult to pull off logistically?

deke rivers wrote:I have had Robinsons on occasion and its notthat bad..not that good either but thats my point....its sad when places like Famous Daves can thrive. The lot is always full and the Q is mediocre at best.

Now i grew up on Russells..doesnt mean I liked it either..most times it was a place to stop half drunk while on the way somewhere else
i often wondered why they claimed it was BBQ

I grew up eating Robinson's. When they first opened, it was good stuff. I wouldn't feed it to my dog now. I'm just hoping that Smokin M's can come somewhere between Coleman's and Uncle John's. Shouldn't be too hard if someone actually takes pride in their product, and chooses to figure out how to work that Aqua smoker correctly. When you say Robinson's is "not that bad..not that good either" - kinda makes me think you are either not a fan of aqua q, or have never had good aqua q. I'm hoping Smokin M's will take some pride in their product, and start offering the GOOD stuff. I do agree, however, that if they choose to be just another aqua q joint in the glut of aqua q joints* then they missed the boat, and I will have to trek down to 69th for good "Chicago q."

*Although you say there is a glut of aqua q joints, there is only a small handfull of decent ones. There are only three that I will go to. I'm hoping Smokin M's will be one of the GOOD ones. I'm not writing them off yet, as they are new.

[ When you say Robinson's is "not that bad..not that good either" - kinda makes me think you are either not a fan of aqua q, or have never had good aqua . .[/quote]

no ..the style cooker didnt even measure into it
I just meant its ok bbq in my eyes..i would say the same about Bobby Q's in AH and they cook on a Southern Pride I beleive

Just to clarify. My father is Jimmy and he is the cook at Jimmy's place. His main feel for food is definitely Italian. Now when it comes to Smokin M's this is my uncle who is the pit-master. The background of this place goes way back to the 90's. If anyone could recall there used to be a place on 4th and Roosevelt in maywood called meatballs etc. This was owned by the pit-master of Smokin M's. The place was eminent domain ed by the city of maywood and was replaced by a car dealer which in fact now is out of business.
When it comes to barbecue i am only an amateur and learning. I was grown up on Russel's and to this day still eat there on occasion. Im also a fan in Dave Andersons Lengedary Pit Barbecue aka Famous Dave's. Famous Dave himself has experienced almost all of Americas fine BBQ styles and has perfected its dwelling. But when it comes to old fashioned smoking only places like smokin m's and Uj's do it right. I to have made it my priority as an employee and nephew to scope out competitors. When smoked right most meats definitely have the same taste. Even when chewy and sometimes a little bland to taste. I believe what makes a true barbecue is the sauce. But what do i know im just a kid. Now my uncle (smokin m's pitmaster) has lots to say when it comes to good barbecue. If he wasn't so computer incapable I'd have him type his own ideas.
Also, THE FRIES ARE MADE IN NO TRANS FAT SATURATED OIL. Just to make notice.

SmokinM's wrote:Also, THE FRIES ARE MADE IN NO TRANS FAT SATURATED OIL. Just to make notice.

I'm very surprised by that...because they taste so darn good.

Thank you very much for the insights, for providing the historical background of your business, and for not taking a defensive position regarding some of the criticisms made in this thread. As you can see, lots of people (including me) are rooting for Smokin' M's.

SmokinM's wrote:I believe what makes a true barbecue is the sauce. But what do i know im just a kid.

You are correct. You have a lot to learn. If it's good BBQ, sauce is not necessary or at least not the main ingredient (the sauce is not the boss). BBQ is all about meat, smoke and time.

Steve - i was going to say the same thing..the sauce should enhance the meat but the meat itself should be able to stand on its own without it..
im more concerned about the comments about how all smoked meat tastes the the same even when bland and chewy..and that Famous Daves has perfected BBQ..

SmokinM's wrote:When smoked right most meats definitely have the same taste. Even when chewy and sometimes a little bland to taste.

SmokinM's wrote:I believe what makes a true barbecue is the sauce.

I strongly disagree with the above statements, in particular When smoked right most meats definitely have the same taste.

SmokinM's wrote:But what do i know im just a kid.

You, my enthusiastic friend, have much to learn. It's an enjoyable ride filled with interesting people and tons, literally, of smoked meat.

SmokinM's wrote:Now my uncle (smokin m's pitmaster) has lots to say when it comes to good barbecue. If he wasn't so computer incapable I'd have him type his own ideas.

I politely suggest you spend more time listening and learning from your uncle and less time at the keyboard.

Regards,
Gary

deke rivers wrote:why??? I think we got a big enough glut of those type places
dont you?
Why wouldnt you rather see a decent BBQ place in Chicago that opens up the whole BBQ world to Chicago besides ribs and tips? It can be done without being mechanical
you of all people should welcome that concept I would think

Deke,

We have a glut of bad to worse BBQ joints for sure, some using 'mechanical' smokers, many using, and I use the world using loosely, Aquarium style smokers. What I mean, and thought obvious, is quality BBQ joints on the order of Honey One, Uncle John's, Barbara Ann's and Lem's.

To me the "whole BBQ world" is a celebration of regionality, brisket in Texas Hill Country, whole hog in the Carolina's, tip, links and spare ribs in Chicago.

Enjoy,
Gary

I politely suggest you spend more time listening and learning from your uncle and less time at the keyboard.

Gary Aloysius FitzWiviott! Are you trying to earn the Mike G. Memorial Curmudgeon Award? Those who follow the site closely certainly know and admire your barbecue credentials (and founding of the site, so who am I to chide), but to an earnest new poster, this could be more than a little off-putting from someone he or she doesn't know. Our friend SmokinM's took the time to keep up on his family's press, Google his way into the thread, and post objectively and honestly without pulling a Theo-from-Terragusto or similar rant. He is circumspect, identifying his newness in the business, and is welcome to his opinion that good sauce goes a long way. Just because one is young does not merit a directive (politely framed as it was) to leave the board for a while and learn from one's elders.

A new data point for Smokin' M's: sandwiches. Chopped pork at left, chopped beef at right.



I would say after this meal that they do have "all four food groups," and welcome those of you who have not yet sampled the restaurant to visit and offer your reactions to the actual barbecue served instead of the metaconcept of taxonomied avatarcue.

These were darn good, throwbacky barbecue sandwiches, like what I always HOPE I should get from Russell's. Finely chopped (almost granules of) smoked pork butt, and a similar preparation of the only beef item on the menu, which is actually smoked top round (with fat cap untrimmed). I saw both cuts myself in the smoker and had a great discussion with the proprietor. Unlike the tips (which as I've said from the start can be uneven), these were moist and tender, and carried the same pleasant wood and fire scents and flavor of the basic rub. They're cooked slow (the pork goes all day) and kept warm in an under-counter heat tray.

There is no stovetop / oven in the whole place, and the microwave is used only for heating the sauce according to the staff; the entire setup is the big stainless aquarium smoker (which turns out to be vintage, or at least early 90s, though he's got it polished beautifully), heated counter recepticles, and a four-cage fryer unit. If today's visit led to any criticism or revelation, it was only that since the smoker is the only primary cooking element, it is packed to the perimeter with meats beyond what I've ever seen, so I can easily understand how the links go a little long sometimes, especially when the primary pitmaster can't be stoking the thing for the 14 hours a day that they're open. But he does have some experience with both true pit and aquarium smokers from previous gigs, and a good South-raised tutor. I continue to like what I've had there and only expect the on-bone cuts to improve as he gets his method right for the current space and client base.

Santander wrote:Gary Aloysius FitzWiviott! Are you trying to earn the Mike G. Memorial Curmudgeon Award?

Santander,

I did not mean to imply he should not participate on LTHForum, but that he spend more time listening to his Pitmaster Uncle.

Frankly, I think he's lucky his Pitmaster uncle is not handy with computers as if I were him, and read the following posted by a representative of my BBQ business, I'd be more than mildly displeased.

SmokinM's wrote:When smoked right most meats definitely have the same taste.

Anyhoo, I did not mean to come off harsh, but I do strenuously disagree with the two statements I highlighted upthread.

Enjoy,
Gary

and although im happy to see pork and beef on the menu now I do not like the fact its been minced like that..its beyond chopped..
I will be back in the old neighborhood soon and will stop in to at least taste for myself as none of these pictures along with the kids comments are doing this place any favors..
I will reserve any further unfair judgement on my part until I actually eat something there

SmokinM's wrote: THE FRIES ARE MADE IN NO TRANS FAT SATURATED OIL. Just to make notice.

Ann Fisher wrote: and although he couldn't tell me what they were cooked in ("it's white, it comes in a box, you scoop it out")

so which one is it?

I was standing next to the fryer today, and can confirm Hammond's note that the fries are twice-dipped, but did not see either the aforementioned box or oil jugs. I'm almost positive it's oil and not some kind of mystery powdered lard from taste, though.

And Gary and deke, sorry if I came across too strong. Nothing was unfair, just abstract (which I often am as well).

It's no trans fat cooking oil. What i meant was when meat is cooked the right way- aquarium style- the taste could be the same. Now Santander was nice enough to help me out by correcting my misjudgment and its sad that he came in when i wasn't working. Its glad to hear that you got the whole grand tour of smokin m's when you visited last.

Hello, my name is Kurt. I just registered to LTHforum.com. I have been reading these forums for quite a while, though I figured that I might as well join here and I hope to become part of the online community of Chicago area food fans. I love all kinds of food, though bbq probably is my favorite, that and Chinese food. Anyways, I realize that this isn't an introductory thread, so I'll move on and talk about what is important to this thread, obviously that being Smokin M's. I have made three visits to Smokin M's, in less than one week, tonight will be my fourth visit to there. Also, I try to go to SmoqueBBQ once every week, usually on Saturdays. The reason I mention SmoqueBBQ, is because along with Smokin M's, I believe these two bbq establishments to be the best in Chicago. I also believe in what I have heard from people about Uncle John's BBQ, although I haven't been to there, as of yet.

Here in this post, I want to write about my experiences with both Smokin M's and SmoqueBBQ. I have alot of respect for both businesses in how they are conducting business. Both have three very important qualities in which make them similar, apart from differences in terms of the cooking method style, location, and restaurant size. The three very important similar qualities are the food, service, and the love of bbq; true, smoked bbq. The owners of the two businesses are very passionate about operating not just good establishments, though great establishments. The owners are very polite and respectful of accomodation. I am physically disabled, yet despite crowds, weather, etc, I have always been helped by the owners in order for me to enjoy dining there. The food, being smoked, even though the method of smoking the food is different at both places, are equally as good (my opinion).

For now, I'm done talking about SmoqueBBQ in this post. I want to comment to the other posts in this thread, particularly to SmokinM, who is a very nice person. I enjoy discussing about bbq with him, even though I disagree with him about his comment regarding the sauce being what makes true bbq. I have discovered that I use a very small amount of sauce when I eat well-smoked bbq, which is true bbq. In my opinion, the smoke is the boss. Too much sauce can interfere in the smoke flavor of the ribs. Adding too many flavors to an already finely cooked product, is unneccessary. Less is more. Also, I recommend to people from this forum site, that if you go to Smokin M's, order the sauce off of the meat. If you want some sauce, get it on the side. I think Smokin M's should not put any sauce on their product, rather, offer it on the side, in order to give their customers a true taste of smoke with the option of adding sauce.

Okay, back to my mentioning about SmoqueBBQ. From what I have learned from people on this forum site, SmoqueBBQ smokes by using wood panels, powered by gasoline. Whereas, Smokin M's smokes by using hickory, flamed in an aquarium-style smoker. In my opinion, what really matters is that the food is truely smoked, not artificially smoked, baked, and oversauced. True, genuine smoke. Also, please understand that the process of smoking food, is more difficult to cook than the inferior processes of cooking fake bbq. The few inconsistencies in the food at Smokin M's, ought to lessen as time goes by. If there is an issue with the food there, mention it to the owners. They are very friendly people who want their customers to be happy. Also, by mentioning the issues to them, they can learn, which will produce even better bbq. Over time, we will all benefit from muchly desired high-quality Chicago area bbq.

BP wrote: From what I have learned from people on this forum site, SmoqueBBQ smokes by using wood panels, powered by gasoline.

BP,

Welcome to LTH Forum. Just to clarify something, when we talk about automated BBQ machines like the Southern Pride that Smoque uses and mention that they are powered by gas, we are referring to natural gas, like you use in your stove; not gasoline. I suppose it's an easy misunderstanding to have.

BP wrote:The owners of the two businesses are very passionate about operating not just good establishments, though great establishments. The owners are very polite and respectful of accomodation. I am physically disabled, yet despite crowds, weather, etc, I have always been helped by the owners in order for me to enjoy dining there. The food, being smoked, even though the method of smoking the food is different at both places, are equally as good (my opinion).

If there is an issue with the food there, mention it to the owners.

Everyone I've met at Smokin'M's has been very friendly, willing to talk and make the customer feel comfortable, and that's one of the main reasons that I, personally, hope they make it.