Recent French Laundry menu for interest's sake

I enjoy reading menus since they tend to spark ideas about what I want to cook next for dinner. For those interested, here's a recent FL menu I received from my friend who just celebrated his birthday there (sorry about the slightly crappy resolution ):

Some mighty interesting looking offerings. I certainly wouldn't mind eating anything on the menu (well, maybe not the ris de veau, but no one likes everything).

Interesting, however, how familiar some of it sounds at this point, since we've developed a number of restaurants at or close to this level in Chicago. I realize that much of it is the cooking, and not the writing on the menu. But I feel fortunate that I don't have to go all the way to Californiat to eat at this level.

Cynthia wrote:Some mighty interesting looking offerings. I certainly wouldn't mind eating anything on the menu (well, maybe not the ris de veau, but no one likes everything).

Interesting, however, how familiar some of it sounds at this point, since we've developed a number of restaurants at or close to this level in Chicago. I realize that much of it is the cooking, and not the writing on the menu. But I feel fortunate that I don't have to go all the way to Californiat to eat at this level.

Having eaten at a bunch of the Keller restaurants now, we don't have anything close to this in Chicago. We have some very very good high end restaurants, but nothing being executed at his level here. Before someone gets their panties in a twist about this, this is not meant to be a downer on Chicago, it's really more an upper on Keller- Other than 3-4 places around the entire country I don't think anyone is doing anything on his level.

I think Alinea is absolutely at the same level as Per Se (having been to both a few times). I haven't been to FL.

jesteinf wrote:I think Alinea is absolutely at the same level as Per Se (having been to both a few times). I haven't been to FL.

While Alinea is very very good, I respectfully disagree.

I know this has been posted as a pet peeve by others on other threads, but overuse (and inappropriately use) quotation marks much?

I'm curious about the disagreement regarding Alinea not being on the same level. Could you flesh that out? Is it a matter of finesse, service, wine, food, approach?

jpschust wrote:

jesteinf wrote:I think Alinea is absolutely at the same level as Per Se (having been to both a few times). I haven't been to FL.

While Alinea is very very good, I respectfully disagree.

I'm with MJN. I don't want to encourage a pissing match, but I'd like to read a high level back and forth about the relative merits of Alinea and Per Se from a couple of thoughtul, um, critics?, who have some experience with both places.

I'd suggest starting a new thread if you two care to indulge us.

Cheers,

Aaron

I think there are two things that really put Per Se and Alinea at the highest level of dining in the US: service and technically excellent cooking.

First, service. I feel like at both places you get the kind of service that anticipates the needs of the diners. It's been well documented the kind of lengths that Keller goes to to ensure that the service level remains high. I don't know what kind of training happens at Alinea, but I've always felt that the service is just as good. I also know that at both places they will keep a "file" on repeat diners so they know many of your preferences when eating. Also at both places you are dealing with staffs that are highly passionate about the food being served.

Next, the food. Keller is legendary for the constant pursuit of perfection when it comes to cooking, and this really comes through on the plate when eating at Per Se. It also comes through when eating Achatz's food. It's easy to see that it's an evolution of what he learned while working with Keller. Also, neither chef's food ever compromise taste for the sake of innovation. I'd be happy to eat either Oysters & Pearls or a black truffle explosion (hell, I'll eat both, all night if possible).

Finally, there's also an intangible aspect. Whenever I've eaten at either Per Se or at Alinea, I've had the feeling that I'm eating at someplace truly special. Where I know I'm in the best hands possible and I know that I'll walk out the door with a memorable experience. In both places, I can just lose myself in the food and the experience. I can't really think of any other restaurants I've been to that give me the same feeling.

In terms of critical response, I have no doubt that Alinea would still be a 4 star restaurant if it were in NYC. It has become a destination for food lovers in both the US and internationally. When and if Michelin comes to Chicago, I think there is a pretty good chance that Alinea will be the city's only 3-star restaurant (at the most I think there will be 2 or 3 3-stars).

Having eaten at both Alinea and the French Laundry within the past two years, I'm going to put myself in the jpschust camp (this would be a whole lot easier if your nicks didn't look so similar at first glance ), but before hearing his explanation I suspect I don't feel as strongly about it.

What they have in common is an amazing level of precision. I think Achatz is every bit as detail-obsessed as Keller, though Keller's the one with the reputation.

The difference to me is that as wonderful an experience as Alinea is, and it is wonderful, it's still very much an intellectual one, and it's structured as such. Achatz' cooking is very self-aware -- postmodern, perhaps? It isn't enough that Achatz has a dish with a bite that slowly changes character as it sits on your tongue. The dish is built in such a way that that the flavor progression is as clearly defined as possible, and very much the entire point of the exercise. Keller's dishes are just as thoughtful, but not in such an overt manner. I think he's more content to let you simply enjoy the dish, even if it's no less creative or meticulous. At Alinea, I found myself saying, "Wow, that's really interesting," whereas at the French Laundry, I found myself saying, "Wow, that's really wonderful." Which isn't to say Alinea wasn't also wonderful, but... you get the idea, hopefully.

Maybe it's a matter of maturity. That sounds condescending, but I really don't mean it that way (especially since I'm younger than both of them). Fantastic as it was, Alinea wasn't satisfying in quite the same way as the French Laundry. And I don't mean that in terms of volume or richness of food. I felt that Achatz engaged my brain like no other chef, but perhaps at the expense of fully engaging my soul.

But I also have to consider that I might have felt differently if Alinea's menu were pared down somewhat. I know the absurd number of courses is part of the fun, and each one was interesting in some way. There were very few I didn't greatly enjoy on some level. But sometimes you watch the extended director's cut of a film and find yourself saying that they were good cuts. Though I'm not sure, I wonder if that's the case here.

Having eaten only at Alinea, thanks, Dmnkly.

I think any attempt to distinguish between these two places (my first instinct, frankly, was to use the word "temples), is going to be challenging in the extreme. I just wanted to post my very sincere thanks for explaining the difference (personal and unique though it may be) as you perceived it and in a way that I found clear and persuasive. I think I understand exactly what you're getting at and, indeed, my overlong review of our dinner at Alinea groped toward a similar reaction to Achatz's cooking.

The distinction between engaging one's mind and engaging one's soul I found particularly apt (at least in terms of explaining the difference to someone who hasn't been to one of the restaurants in question). As some one who had feared a similar reaction to Keller's cooking, you've "re-intrigued" me with the French Laundry. And I'm grateful.

Ultimately I don't think we're going to reach any sort of a conclusion here. Achatz and Keller are both freaking rock stars, and any lover of food should make every attempt to sample both cuisines.

I will say that, on the question of "soul", the one criticism I've heard of Keller's food (and I strongly disagree with this) is that it lacks soul because it is striving to be so perfect technically.

jesteinf wrote:Ultimately I don't think we're going to reach any sort of a conclusion here. Achatz and Keller are both freaking rock stars, and any lover of food should make every attempt to sample both cuisines.

Oh, no doubt, and that certainly isn't my intention. And even if I were to try to draw definitive conclusions, I wouldn't try to do it based on one visit to each.

And also, to be clear, this idea of intellect vs. soul when it comes to high-end cuisine, I'm definitely not trying to suggest that the two are somehow mutually exclusive. Achatz absolutely stirred me (in a way Cantu doesn't, for example), it's just that those moments when I was totally lost in the food weren't as frequent as they could have been, and I suspect it's because so many courses, while incredibly tasty lessons, were still lessons.

Dmnkly wrote:

jesteinf wrote:Ultimately I don't think we're going to reach any sort of a conclusion here. Achatz and Keller are both freaking rock stars, and any lover of food should make every attempt to sample both cuisines.

Oh, no doubt, and that certainly isn't my intention. And even if I were to try to draw definitive conclusions, I wouldn't try to do it based on one visit to each.

And also, to be clear, this idea of intellect vs. soul when it comes to high-end cuisine, I'm definitely not trying to suggest that the two are somehow mutually exclusive. Achatz absolutely stirred me (in a way Cantu doesn't, for example), it's just that those moments when I was totally lost in the food weren't as frequent as they could have been, and I suspect it's because so many courses, while incredibly tasty lessons, were still lessons.

I think those are all good points. A question though about your experience at Alinea...When you mention the sheer number of courses, does that mean you did the Tour? If so, I would urge you to go back and do the Tasting. My better meals at Alinea have generally been better with a shorter menu.

jesteinf wrote:I think those are all good points. A question though about your experience at Alinea...When you mention the sheer number of courses, does that mean you did the Tour? If so, I would urge you to go back and do the Tasting. My better meals at Alinea have generally been better with a shorter menu.

That's correct, we did the tour. And it's funny you mention this, because one of my exact thoughts upon leaving was that while I loved the tour, I suspect that the tasting might actually be a stronger menu due to some strategic cuts. That said, even if I convince myself it's the way to go, I'll have a really hard time not doing the Tour. Mostly because every course is so damn much fun I hate the idea of missing anything

You can always to the Tasting and have a few courses added (we've gone this route before too, I think that 14 or 15 courses is actually the best number). They'll just charge you an additional $x per course over the price of the Tour.

I would recommend that any foodie needs to eat at TFL at least once, and I'd go there more often if I lived near it. I have eaten at TFL, although only once, and while it was great and worth it (once) - I think Tru and Trotter's are in the same league (have not been to Alinea yet). TFL had the best food, by a narrow margin - although I prefer Gale Gand's dessert interpretations. When we go to to place like this, I am not looking for a bargain obviously and we usually go with 'all the trimmings.' However, TFL was more focused (or at least less subtle) on running up my tab than Tru or Trotter's. We went with their wine pairings, and the gave us half bottles at a rate that was faster than we wanted to handle, I'd like to be conscious when I finish the meal. We had to waive off some of the wines, they were visibly disappointed. Where our meals at Trotter and Tru have been about 3 hours, we were out of TFL in about 1.5 hours despite more courses on their tasting menu. I don't expect to be subjected to turning tables at that level. And if you don't mind competing with waiters and sommeliers that look for opportunities to prove they know more than you do while you're footing the bill, I would agree that TFL wins the food contest. I am entirely comfortable with my level of knowledge and experience in high end restaurants, I don't pretend to be a master chef/sommelier. Only one person's view...

I agree with many of the opinions above, but I wanted to add one other word: refinement. TFL, Per Se, and even Bouchon have a level of refinement that goes above and beyond Alinea, Tru, Trotter's, and so on. We're juding the best of the best, so nothing is a disparagement at this point, but the Keller restaurants both in terms of cooking and in terms of interaction with staff from the moment one walks in the door has an added level of refinement. Also Keller's staff seems to understand the perfect balance between having a personality and essentially never being in the way of a meal. I don't know that I can say that for the other restaurants.

Midpack wrote:...However, TFL was more focused (or at least less subtle) on running up my tab than Tru or Trotter's. We went with their wine pairings, and the gave us half bottles at a rate that was faster than we wanted to handle, I'd like to be conscious when I finish the meal. We had to waive off some of the wines, they were visibly disappointed. ...

This bit reminded me of the one disappointing aspect of our meal at French Laundry: the wine service. We told the sommelier how much we wanted to spend for two or three bottles of wine and what styles we were learning towards. His first suggestion was a Rioja that was twice as much as we wanted to spend. We brought him back down to our price range, and we ended up going with a Remirez de Ganuza.

I've now had the opportunity to drink this wine subsequent to the French Laundry and indeed it is wonderful. But it wasn't that night in Yountville. What was the difference? This is a wine that needs time to breathe (at least in its youth), at least a few hours. The bottle at French Laundry was opened immediately prior to service. It was incredibly tight and tannic. The sommelier should have known better.

We also had a very amusing experience with Keller. On our way out, we visited the kitchen and met Keller. He asked if we wanted him to sign our menus. I had the menus and I specifically told him how to spell the name of one our friends (Kris, rather than the more common Chris). He looks at me, says "ok", and then proceeds to write "Chris". Oh well. Good for a laugh.

Matt wrote:I know this has been posted as a pet peeve by others on other threads, but overuse (and inappropriately use) quotation marks much?

ugh ... talk about pretension. Is it bottarga or "bottarga" ? Is it or isn't it ? When something's in quotes, it tells me that it's "in the style of". I can see how it might be a "porridge" but most of the others don't make sense. Lame.

I think we've been through the whole quotation mark thing before. I think the most plausible explanation that I've seen is that most of the time, non-English words and phrases are put in quotes.

jesteinf wrote:I think we've been through the whole quotation mark thing before. I think the most plausible explanation that I've seen is that most of the time, non-English words and phrases are put in quotes.

FYI _ I added a comment to the question mark thread.

I won't argue that the whole quotation mark thing can get a little silly, but in this case, it seems to indicate more than just a foreign word, since there are plenty of foreign words that don't have quotes and some English words that do have them ("Oysters and Pearls.")

Instead, I think that its an indication that the actual preparation is inspired by some original, usually French, dish, but really is not that dish. Its not listed on this menu, but one of his specialties is the "Creamsicle" which consists of slamon tartare formed into a small ball and perched on a tiny sesame cone like a scoop of icecream. Unfortunately I have not been to the French Laundry so I can't comment specifically on the above, although "oysters and pearls" is one of his most famous recipies (and does include oysters, although the pearls are caviar and tapioca).

In many cases those quotation marks on a menu may only indicate the pretensions of a chef, but in this case I would bet that each one is used specifically to mark a departure from a time honored recipe. That seems much more in line with the perfection with which Keller treats the whole dining experience.

I could be wrong, but unitl I get there myself, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty sure "Oysters & Pearls" gets the quotation mark treatment because it's an actual name for a dish (similar to Keller's "Peas & Carrots" or "Macaroni & Cheese"). So, I think it's safe to assume the quotation marks denote 1 of 3 things:

1. A name or "title" of a dish
2. Some sort of departure from how one would traditionally see what is being placed in quotes
3. The use of a non-English word or phrase

In any event, I don't really think this matters. Any time I've been to Per Se, I've looked at the menu for roughly 3 seconds and then just prepared to be dazzled.