NY TIMES on Chinese cooking

I submit this without comment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/opini ... ?th&emc=th

Interesting. I am reminded of the recent Lidia Bastianich Chef's Story episode, where she talks about Ameri-Italian cooking being a cuisine of adaptation, and how she slowly introduced more authentic Italian foods in her restaurant.

It's also interesting to me that many or most Ameri-hyphenated cuisines are notable for being extremely heavy-handed in comparison to authentic versions: fattier, saltier, sweeter.

Much the same can be said about Italian food as the author says about Chinese food. More specifically, I refer to the propagation of all manner of misconceptions and now increasingly reverse-snobberies about it in the media, including by persons who seem as though they should know what they're talking about. Though not the worst of the lot, Bastianich falls into that category to a certain degree, at least in my estimation.

Antonius

Who could possibly quibble with the premise of this piece? The guy's obviously been around (though some statements needn't have been so categorical: I've definitely eaten, not thrown away, that black chicken, and I can't recall ever encountering those big signs that must surely exist in China to let visitors know when they are entering/leaving the precisely demarcated domains of those four--not six or eight, mind you, but four--cooking styles.

But whereas the writer shows great familiarity with China, he may be a bit out of touch with North America. The fact is, the Yanks (and Canucks) eat the phony stuff because it appeals to them, and they absolutely wouldn't savor the genuine article. My Indiana parents, for example, are great devotees of the classic hangar-size, fat-butt, all-you-can-eat, oil-salt-glop-and-sugar "Chinese" buffet. And yet my Taiwanese wife and I wouldn't even dream of cooking actual Chinese fare when they visit (although Mom, trying to be a sport, often suggests it) because they simply wouldn't like it, or even understand it. It would mean nothing to them, and why should we spoil a perfectly good meal by having to deal with their uncomprehending looks?

Barry Foy wrote:But whereas the writer shows great familiarity with China, he may be a bit out of touch with North America. The fact is, the Yanks (and Canucks) eat the phony stuff because it appeals to them, and they absolutely wouldn't savor the genuine article. My Indiana parents, for example, are great devotees of the classic hangar-size, fat-butt, all-you-can-eat, oil-salt-glop-and-sugar "Chinese" buffet. And yet my Taiwanese wife and I wouldn't even dream of cooking actual Chinese fare when they visit (although Mom, trying to be a sport, often suggests it) because they simply wouldn't like it, or even understand it. It would mean nothing to them, and why should we spoil a perfectly good meal by having to deal with their uncomprehending looks?

There is an American living in China who interviews Chinese ex-pat Chefs in the United States. She claims the Chefs are frustrated by American's refusal to try authentic Chinese. My hand shot up once she said that. I told her it is very difficult to order authentic Chinese because the front of the house staff actively discourages it. It was clear from this discussion, there was a disconnect between the back and front of the house. The front house person takes all the grief if the food is not well received either in food returned without payment and possible tip clip.

This American from China suggested going to a Chinese restaurant where you see Chinese amongst the diners. Request to have your food prepared to Chinese-taste, which may still not happen the first few times. Eventually they will be convinced you want the real deal. There is still the risk you may not like everything prepared to Chinese taste, though smile through the meal and pay for it.

My friend's husband grew up in Hong Kong speaking both Cantonese and Mandarin. He also has to emphasize he wants his food prepared to Chinese-taste.

As much as I like authentic Chinese food, I also like well made Chinese American food, too. Charmingly in Chicago, you have a rare third option: Chinese food made to Indian tastes.

Regards,

Jane wrote:I submit this without comment.

Not to worry, we've got you covered.

Cathy2 wrote:
Charmingly in Chicago, you have a rare third option: Chinese food made to Indian tastes.

Regards,

And at Evo in Champaign, IL, and probably other places as well, you can get Chinese food made to Korean tastes.

Cathy2 wrote:As much as I like authentic Chinese food, I also like well made Chinese American food, too. Charmingly in Chicago, you have a rare third option: Chinese food made to Indian tastes.

I don't know about charming, but perhaps you are being kind. The vast majority of Chinese food made to "'Indian'" tastes is made to bad indian tastes, IMO (including in India ) Taken out of context, in America it's even worse.

As Antonious says this is applicable to most 'authentic' cuisines, though ostensible "Chinese" food is probably the most widespread globally. Don't get me wrong, Ameri-Chinese (I'll grant, even Indian-Chinese) can be good. Take General Tso for example, I really dig his chicken. However, there is a general ignorance of what it really is (besides the fact the 'good' Ameri- or anyother-Chinese is not that easy to find either). By trying to cater to foreign tastes, the soul of the authentic dish is lost - nobody can benefit from that in the long run.

sazerac wrote:By trying to cater to foreign tastes, the soul of the authentic dish is lost - nobody can benefit from that in the long run.

If an entity can afford to alienate 80% of the people walking into their establishment, then go forth and ignore clients expectations. This is probably why there are these two-tier menus for Americans and what we coined as 'secret menus' for the ex-pats. Unfortunately there are not enough ex-pats to sustain the business, though they are necessary element in a restaurant's income stream and overall reputation. The general American public is the bread and butter customer who can make their business solvent if they can be converted into regular customers.

Fortunately we are the other 20% or perhaps 1% who do seek out the authentic, though it is a challenge.

Regards,

Agree with Cathy2, again.

Fundamentally, the restaurant owners either meet the expectations of customers or they go out of business. Therefore, if I walk into a Chinese restaurant in Peoria, I expect that I am going to get something Americanized.

The Sri Lankan couple I met in 2005 in Eastern Ontario bought a Canadian restaurant in a town of 750 served me an excellent curry when I made the request. If they had opened a curry house in the small town, they would close quickly.

I will say one thing. Read some of the arguments on the various Vancouver, CA boards. Many of the posters claim to be Chinese yet they seem to rarely be able to agree exactly what is "authentic" Chinese food and what is not.

And finally, after reading and exchanging notes with various WSJ articles AND reading articles from the NY Times, I sometimes wonder if half the writers ever leave the shadows of Manhattan.

sazerac wrote:As Antonious says this is applicable to most 'authentic' cuisines, though ostensible "Chinese" food is probably the most widespread globally. Don't get me wrong, Ameri-Chinese (I'll grant, even Indian-Chinese) can be good. Take General Tso for example, I really dig his chicken. However, there is a general ignorance of what it really is (besides the fact the 'good' Ameri- or anyother-Chinese is not that easy to find either). By trying to cater to foreign tastes, the soul of the authentic dish is lost - nobody can benefit from that in the long run.

Even applicable to a cuisine as 'authentic' as American fast food.

I was struck by the proliferation of indigenous pizza, fried chicken, and burger chains in Korea with their own curious (to me) interpretations. The phenomena has landed here (see the mayo drizzled, sweet potato stuffed crust pizza at Cheogajip), and inspired another degree of separation with American entrepreneurs re-interpreting the interpretations (see "Crisp BBQ" and "Seoul Sassy" fried chicken at Crisp).