"Tinkering"

Exactly why a relatively new place, BBQ or otherwise, should not be included in a Top of the City list, unless it's a list of recent openings. If a respected publication such as Chicago magazine says Honky Tonk is tops it should be past the tinkering stage and well into steady groove.

I think all good restaurants should be tinkering, never resting on their laurels. Core favorites should be consistent, but I appreciate new menu items, creature comfort changes to the space, etc. The changes at Honky Tonk have not been to the recipes of Will's award-winning pulled pork and brisket, but rather in the daily schedule of when they're coming out of the oven to best suit the crowd, and the addition of several brilliant and inventive new dishes.

Santander wrote:Core favorites should be consistent,

S,

Exactly my point.

Enjoy,
Gary

Right. My point was only to elucidate that the tinkering I spoke of was NOT to core items. Of course, something can't become a 'core' item until you try it. And what we consider core items (Three Chili Chicken, anyone?) are not necessarily core to the people who start the restaurant or design the menu.

YoYoPedro wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

YoYoPedro wrote:I'm with you! They have their own magazine up there! But how they love to drive into the city...

Does this comment actually mean anything? To me, it seems even more annoying than the list that inspired this thread. But, I'm genuinely curious. Tell me, do I really love driving into the city? Do I not?

~~~~~

God forbid Chicago Magazine should try to cater to their readership. How dare those people attempt to perpetuate their livelihoods. The nerve of them!

It's just a list and we all know that lists sell magazines. The funny thing is that when it comes to BBQ, there is hardly a consensus on the matter. It's a topic that's often hotly debated, even across the numerous threads about it that can be found throughout this very forum. The list and the opnions behind it are no less valid than anyone else's around here. So, we're basically just arguing about BBQ again, right? Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh well, at least north shore-bashing makes for a nice, original condiment.

=R=

edited for clarity

Didn't mean to bash the North Shore (too much). I certainly didn't mean to start a feud or anything like that. I just prefer that a magazine I subscribe to keeps its eye on the prize. As a Chicago resident, I read Chicago magazine (when I read it) to find things to do in Chicago. I would guess that other people reading a magazine called "Chicago" magazine would be reading it for the same reason. As an avid AutoWeek reader, it bugs me when they spend time writing about trucks or SUV's, because they are of little interest to me, and there are other magazines that focus primarily on those subjects. As far as Chicago magazine catering to its readership, that's exactly what I was saying. The vast plurality of its readers are from Chicago. Now, regarding your like or dislike of driving into the city, I just don't have enough information to be sure. You aren't the black Range Rover HSE with "NIP TUCK" license plates are you?

http://www.chicagomag.com/images/Advertise/Chicago-Mag_Circulation-Map.jpg

I guess I understand the point about wanting Chicago magazine to focus only on Chicago, although I wasn't really replying to that. My immediate thought about the ads for plastic surgeons on the north shore was that it is the city dwellers who head north for such procedures. I mean, those who reside on the shore must already know of these surgeons, right? But the line between the city and the burbs is blurry to begin with. Great food, especially ethnic, is generally found where the given population is found. More and more, these areas of ethnic concentration are found in the burbs. This seems likely to continue.

But, living in the burbs, I also try to stay tuned into the city and the plethora of resources which help me appreciate it. Frankly, I've never understood the mindset of living in the burbs and not going into the city frequently. Honestly, what's the point of living in a suburb and not going into the city? I didn't end up living where I live randomly and I could choose to live just about anywhere in the Chicagoland area. I weighed many factors and decided what was best for me and my family. And if I had no interest in the city's offerings, I'd likely live in a rural or more outlying location. Living near an urban area seems useless to me if you don't take advantage of what the urban area has to offer. I'v always felt that living in the burbs allows me to have the best of both worlds. But that's just me.

As for whether I enjoy driving into the city or not, I think my answer is probably universal. No one likes to drive any more than they have to. But I rarely let the distance get in my way. I'm dedicated to living as full a life as I can and that includes driving south -- sometimes even in rush hour traffic -- on a fairly regular basis. Again, I don't live in the burbs so that I can ignore or hide from the city. I live there because I love what my suburb has to offer and living there also allows me to take full advantage of what the city has to offer.

Also, fwiw, I am not technically a north shore resident. My suburb, while it is north, is land-locked. And LOL, no, that's not my SUV, but you're close

=R=

First off, I'd like to apologize in advance to any group who may be insulted by this post, including north shorians, argyle sweater wearers, Trixies, Chads, Chixies (pre-op and post-op), the High Land Dutch, the Low Land Dutch, Slovakians, Slovenians, Moldovans, Malaysians, Mormons, Masons, and Dr. Melvin C. Hupfiner of The Winnetka Liposuction & Breast Augmentation Clinic.

It seems to me that the insult, if any, was the magazine's for making a list of "new" (not very in some cases) barbecue places but leaving notable barbecue-producing regions of the city out of consideration entirely on the assumption that its wealthy, older, majority-suburan readership would be too petrified to visit E. 69th st. (or, no doubt, other candidates within the black-majority Terra Incognita on their list). Which to me is like covering Greek food but avoiding Halsted street. (Oops, add Greeks to the above list. And Swedes, just in case.)

On the other hand, for all we know the first draft of this piece may well have included Uncle John's together with some mild cautionary comment about the nature of 69th street/the deep south side. At which point sensitivity may well have reared its head,as it has before, about giving honest advice about neighborhoods. And so, it proved safer to broom Uncle John's (who'd go down there anyway except crazies on LTHForum?) and to substitute some place closer to their readership, like Fat Willy's. And thus did it become a northside list.

In short, all this hypersensitivity-- about the demographics of diners, now about readers of magazines-- is starting to affect what people are willing to say about restaurants, because they don't want to be accused of being racially insensitive, the worst sin in the world. And so being nice to Uncle John's neighborhood means robbing Uncle John itself of a chance for publicity. I find it hard to believe this has benefited anyone... but it's undoubtedly safer.

So, let me be frank and possibly insensitive: if you really want great BBQ in Chicago, go to 69th street. Your odds of getting a cap busted in your ass by some Gangsta Disciple will be marginally higher than in your Lincoln Park home, but at least your odds of having some blue-haired old biddy from Kenilworth ram your Prius with her Lexus in the parking lot to cut you off are virtually nil. She'll be dining at the new Indian place from the owners of DeCero, who promise to bring us "Indian for Americans." Oh joy.

Mike,
wasting time after a very African-American barbecue adventure that would blow a Chicago subscriber's mind*

*Other than myself, of course.

Mike G wrote:First off, I'd like to apologize in advance to any group who may be insulted by this post, including north shorians, argyle sweater wearers, Trixies, Chads, Chixies (pre-op and post-op), the High Land Dutch, the Low Land Dutch, Slovakians, Slovenians, Moldovans, Malaysians, Mormons, Masons, and Dr. Melvin C. Hupfiner of The Winnetka Liposuction & Breast Augmentation Clinic.

It seems to me that the insult, if any, was the magazine's for making a list of "new" (not very in some cases) barbecue places but leaving notable barbecue-producing regions of the city out of consideration entirely on the assumption that its wealthy, older, majority-suburan readership would be too petrified to visit E. 69th st. (or, no doubt, other candidates within the black-majority Terra Incognita on their list). Which to me is like covering Greek food but avoiding Halsted street. (Oops, add Greeks to the above list. And Swedes, just in case.)

On the other hand, for all we know the first draft of this piece may well have included Uncle John's together with some mild cautionary comment about the nature of 69th street/the deep south side. At which point sensitivity may well have reared its head,as it has before, about giving honest advice about neighborhoods. And so, it proved safer to broom Uncle John's (who'd go down there anyway except crazies on LTHForum?) and to substitute some place closer to their readership, like Fat Willy's. And thus did it become a northside list.

In short, all this hypersensitivity-- about the demographics of diners, now about readers of magazines-- is starting to affect what people are willing to say about restaurants, because they don't want to be accused of being racially insensitive, the worst sin in the world. And so being nice to Uncle John's neighborhood means robbing Uncle John itself of a chance for publicity. I find it hard to believe this has benefited anyone... but it's undoubtedly safer.

So, let me be frank and possibly insensitive: if you really want great BBQ in Chicago, go to 69th street. Your odds of getting a cap busted in your ass by some Gangsta Disciple will be marginally higher than in your Lincoln Park home, but at least your odds of having some blue-haired old biddy from Kenilworth ram your Prius with her Lexus in the parking lot to cut you off are virtually nil. She'll be dining at the new Indian place from the owners of DeCero, who promise to bring us "Indian for Americans." Oh joy.

Mike,
wasting time after a very African-American barbecue adventure that would blow a Chicago subscriber's mind*

*Other than myself, of course.

Yo, G! Quick question - is Uncle John's new?

I think it opened about two years ago, so it's newer than Honey One or Fat Willy's.

Can't you guess where the answer would be found?

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=51016#51016
http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=76087#76087

Yo, G! Quick question - is Uncle John's new?

The way I see it, introductions to Uncle John's are always a good thing, no matter how late. Please go and let us know what you think, YoYo 2 the P.

Santander wrote:

Yo, G! Quick question - is Uncle John's new?

The way I see it, introductions to Uncle John's are always a good thing, no matter how late. Please go and let us know what you think, YoYo 2 the P.

Promise nobody will shoot up my BMW? I s'pose I should head down there one of these days, if for no other reason than to totally flush the 'gator chili flavor from my memory forever...

YoYoPedro wrote:Promise nobody will shoot up my BMW? I s'pose I should head down there one of these days, if for no other reason than to totally flush the 'gator chili flavor from my memory forever...

A better reason to "head down there one of these days" would be to try the best "Chicago" Q in Chicago....um..yo2p*

*lame attempt to keep the gangsta theme going. Sorry, G.
Dangit, there I go again.

I think after Mike G's last post on the subject that this thread might as well be closed. I think he nailed everything down about as well as it could be nailed down, and on the topic of BBQ no less.

Well done.

jcclark33 wrote:I think after Mike G's last post on the subject that this thread might as well be closed. I think he nailed everything down about as well as it could be nailed down, and on the topic of BBQ no less.

Well done.

In my humble opinion, his second to the last post was far better in terms of entertainment...

Pedro, you're completely right. That's the post I was referring to, but I suppose you knew that and are just rattling my cage a little.