Favorite Markets

I have an acquaintance who is in the supermarket business - actually more of the consulting business - on the East Coast. He will be travelling to Chicago in a couple of weeks on business and would like to visit some successful Chicagoland *independent* markets.

Where would YOU send him?

Sunset Foods in Highland Park (or Northbrook, Libertyville, LakeForest/Lake Bluff) - Libertyville is their newest store. HP is the Mothership.

Treasure Island, though it varies from store to store.

Don's Finest Foods
850 North Western Avenue
Lake Forest, IL 60045
847-234-2700

I'm not sure where the dividing line is between independent and corporate (or what denotes "successful" for that matter), but here goes:

Cermak Produce is a small chain, but is one of the largest, most successful, and in my opinion, best Latino groceries in the area:

Cermak Produce
2701 W. North Ave.
4234 North Kedzie

I am constantly echoing the praises of Marketplace on Oakton, which remains, week after week, year after year, my all time favorite pan-cultural market. They've got it all. I still don't know if Cermak's and Marketplace are affiliated, but their decor is very similar.

4817 W. Oakton in Skokie

I would also visit some Polish markets including A&G, to show off the sheer size, scope, and bakery selection. Wally's for a more serious Polish vibe. (or Bobak's on Archer).

Wally's Market
3256 N. Milwaukee Ave.
773-736-1212

A&G
Belmont, Just west of Central

Bobak's
5275 S Archer Ave

Best,
Michael / EC

I guess I have to echo EC's line...
"I'm not sure where the dividing line is between independent and corporate (or what denotes "successful" for that matter)", but but I think these might fit the bill:

Caputo's in Elmwood Park (I've only been to the Harlem Ave. location)

Casa del Pueblo in Pilsen (Blue Island, just south of 18th).

Antonius

By "independent", I am looking for Chicago based markets - I do not care about the number of locations - as opposed to Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, etc. which can be found around the country.

I never get real hung up about the corporate structure and all that stuff. I am more concerned with places that serve the customer well.

I'm not sure if this is "Independent" but seems successful given their new openings. (newest listed first)

Pete's Market
4343 S Pulaski Rd,
(773) 927-4300

Pete's Fresh Market
4700 S Kedzie Ave
(773) 523-460

Pete's Market
5724 S Kedzie Ave
(773) 925-6200

Cathy,

Where is the Sunset Foods in Libertyville located and how do you feel that it compares to the others?

Roselle International Market in Roselle
there sued to be a great little market in Bloomingdale called Springbrook but it got bought out by Caputo's (kings of rotton producet and bad funk in the air)so i dont go there anymore..

The Sunset foods in Libertyville is on the corner of Butterfield and 137.

The Jimenez and Guanajunto stores are both excellent examples of their breed.

Vital Information wrote:The Jimenez and Guanajunto stores are both excellent examples of their breed.

I agree; note that Jimenez Brothers on Roosevelt in Cicero (fomerly Aquascalientes) is now El Nuevo Mundo. Same merchandise, same cafeteria counter offerings, different name.

Hammond

Kwe wrote:Where is the Sunset Foods in Libertyville located and how do you feel that it compares to the others?

I principally go to the Highland Park location, which is pretty much a land-locked location. The Libertyville location is the newest and built from scratch. I presume it is the store they would love the HP location to be if they were not landlocked.

Though the HP location is tight by contemporary grocery store standards, they have a lot in that store and constantly restocking. Their service is exemplary. You ask someone for something and often they walk you to the location. Another time the guy didn't know, kept looking for it and found me in the store once he had it. If you are checking out and forgot something, they send someone to get it. They unload your cart for you. There is always senior management visible and ready to address your questions. It is the fastest grocery store to get in and out of.

Going to these pre-election candidate teas, I learned Sunset had an opportunity to take over the old Jewel Food location on Central. Unfortunately, they did not take advantage of the situation due to internal family strife. I also learned they are not pleased about Sam's coming to town.

Regards,

David Hammond wrote:

Vital Information wrote:The Jimenez and Guanajunto stores are both excellent examples of their breed.

I agree; note that Jimenez Brothers on Roosevelt in Cicero (fomerly Aquascalientes) is now El Nuevo Mundo. Same merchandise, same cafeteria counter offerings, different name.

Hammond

Interesting!

Of all the Mexican places, the Carneceria Guanajunto on Diversey, near La Oaxacena is probably the one I think is the *best*, but I have not exactly done a comprehensive survey. Besides, roasted chicken, carnitas and house salsa is not exactly the be all/end all for Mexican grocery stores.

Rob

Depending on his interests, I'll suggest Edgewater Produce, 5515 N Clark, and Harvestime, 2632 W Lawrence.

Cathy2's description of the Highland Park Sunset is spot on. Product quality and service are high. It is successfull, and I generally avoid it. My reasons:

1) I find it claustrophobic inside. This is worsened by people blocking aisles while chatting on cell phones as their kids run amuck.

2) Prices are high for standard stuff

3) I find some of the service excessive -- even at my age I don't need help taking groceries to my car. For those who need assistance it's fine, but mostly it's unnecessary.

What do I like best about Sunset is the speed at checkout. Beats the daylights out of Jewel.

Depending on his interests, I'll suggest Edgewater Produce, 5515 N Clark, and Harvestime, 2632 W Lawrence.

I like Harvestime a lot--fresh, quality produce, good selection of ethnic products, interesting breads and deli meats, and excellent prices. When the nearby Cermak produce opened and took some of their business, I think they stepped up their quality a bit, too, so now much of the produce is superior to Cermak's offerings.

But the sister store, Edgewater Produce, is, to me, an entirely different story. The store is smaller, so it lacks the bread, deli and ethnic product variety Harvestime offers. Most importantly, though, Edgewater doesn't seem as busy as Harvestime, so there isn't as much turnover, and the produce often is in the process of going bad. I have often read praise of this store here and on CH, but in my experience the produce there is completely unreliable, and the selection is less varied than I would like. In the Rogers Park/Edgewater area, I much prefer the more consistent and more interesting Rogers Park Fruit Market on the corner of Clark and Rogers.

I shop at Caputo's in Hanover Park every week and have been to all but the Elmwood Park location. Their staff is excellent and really helpful. The deli workers will let you taste anything without hesitation. They know me by name. They will go get the label and show you the nutrition information if you like (preferable to do during a down time). Their prices are great. Admittedly, sometimes the produce is not the best quality. If you know that going in, tho, you can do well there. Their produce and deli meats are far far cheaper than the chain grocery stores. Like $2.99 vs $8.49 per pound for Sara Lee turkey breast. Artichokes, 5/$1 vs $3.99 each at Jewel (owned by Albertson's).

http://caputomarkets.com

They have their own store brand. The Hanover Park location recently added a cafe with daily specials and they do catering. The store caters to many ethnicities from Italian to Hispanic, Asian, and Indian. Also lots of Polish and Greek foods. You can find some really unusual items such as goats heads and such from time to time. I also hear there is rumor of a location in Elgin/South Elgin just south of Lake Street on Randall Road (I can't wait for that!!!).

Also, no one mentioned Valli Produce. I find them to not be as good in selection or as cheap as Caputo's, and they seem to cater mostly to the Hispanic pantry, but it is a nice store.

Mitsuwa is in Arlington Heights and is a Japanese market with several vendors including a grocer, liquor store, book store, realtor, bakery, cutesy stores with Hello Kitty and similar items, china store, and a multi vendor cafe. I find it extremely fascinating in there and they sell sushi grade fish ($20-$40/lb) as well as premade sushi.

Christine

christine wrote:I shop at Caputo's in Hanover Park every week and have been to all but the Elmwood Park location. Admittedly, sometimes the produce is not the best quality. If you know that going in, tho, you can do well there. Their produce and deli meats are far far cheaper than the chain grocery stores.

Christine, I agree. Caputo's is a great place to go, but I wouldn't go there to stock up on a week's worth of produce. I go in very targetted, looking for peppers, cardones, or whatever, and then cook the stuff within the next day or so. I don't think it's so much a question of quality as it is a question of ripeness. The good news is: everything is pretty much RIPE -- and ready to eat.

Hammond

I like Harvestime a lot--

Me too Kenny

I just returned from an HT run and have been shopping there steadly for the last 6 mts. HT really hits the nail on the head as far as catering to the neighborhood. A really nice mix of eastern European and Mexican items. Glancing at the meat case this afternoon cevepcicis, chorizos and Italian sausages were nestled harmoniously side by side. Same story around the corner in the cheese case. A good selection of Mexican cheeses including queso Oaxaca and grated queso cotija right along side huge slabs of Greek and Bulgarian feta. If you like olives check out the giant jars on the cheese counter.

HT probably has the best selection of locally baked breads around including Damato's, Vals, Markelos,etc.

I also like HT's prices on meat. Skirt steak that runs $6.99 lb. at Jewell is $2.99lb at HT. Likewise Kretchmeyer smoked ham $3.99 1/2lb. at Jewell is $3.29 lb !! at HT.

Carne ala Tampiquena for dinner tonight.

JSM

Kenny from Rogers Park wrote:

Depending on his interests, I'll suggest Edgewater Produce, 5515 N Clark, and Harvestime, 2632 W Lawrence.

I like Harvestime a lot--fresh, quality produce, good selection of ethnic products, interesting breads and deli meats, and excellent prices. [...] But the sister store, Edgewater Produce, is, to me, an entirely different story.

Thanks for the update, Kenny -- it's been a while since I was in either store.

Depending on the nature of the consultant's interests, of course, it may be useful to compare a top-notch store to one that misses the mark, especially run by the same outfit. But if not, this info was a big timesaver (and I'm sure it'll prove so for me as well once I'm back on the North Side).

I spend way too much time in markets for someone who *might* spend $30/wk on groceries in a good week. (The Mrs. buys cleaning supplies, etc. and keeps Walgreen's in business.)

In *most* markets - Cincinnati is an example, groceries are dominated by the big boys - Kroger's, Albertson's, Safeway, SuperValu. The independents generally don't survive because they are not competitive on price. Oh, you may have a niche store like Jungle Jim's that offers great quality and attract people who are less price sensitive.

In Chicagoland, the independents (Eurofresh, Caputos, Garden Fresh, etc.) tend to have LOWER prices for quality as good as the chains (if not better). To me, that is sort of counterintuitive as they have less purchasing power than the chains. I would assume that they would have great purchasing power and could blow the indys away on price.

Example - Eurofresh 0.39 for 100 ct red delicious apples, Jewel is usually $1.29.

jlawrence01 wrote:In Chicagoland, the independents (Eurofresh, Caputos, Garden Fresh, etc.) tend to have LOWER prices for quality as good as the chains (if not better). To me, that is sort of counterintuitive as they have less purchasing power than the chains. I would assume that they would have great purchasing power and could blow the indys away on price.

This is a constant source of mystery to me as well. The only explanation I can think of is that Jewel and Dominick's charge so much because they can (i.e., they have customers that pay it), and that lower prices wouldn't attract enough non-chain shoppers to offset the revenue from the higher margins.

But I'm not sure why that doesn't hold true in other markets...unless, I guess, it's just the nature of the urban ethnic and social diversity of a city like Chicago. If that's the case, I suppose the same would hold true in New York, and maybe LA...are the chains there so expensive relative to all the smaller independent shops or even much more local chains?

Any other thoughts?

It's a lot like banking where appearance suggests there are no economies of scale -- big banks have higher fees, pay less interest on accounts and charge more interest for loans.

I think part is higher overhead at big companies and part is use of market power. Probably the same applies for food markets. The little guys have better deals, but you have to work to find them.

Aaron Deacon wrote:

jlawrence01 wrote:In Chicagoland, the independents (Eurofresh, Caputos, Garden Fresh, etc.) tend to have LOWER prices for quality as good as the chains (if not better). To me, that is sort of counterintuitive as they have less purchasing power than the chains. I would assume that they would have great purchasing power and could blow the indys away on price.

This is a constant source of mystery to me as well. The only explanation I can think of is that Jewel and Dominick's charge so much because they can (i.e., they have customers that pay it), and that lower prices wouldn't attract enough non-chain shoppers to offset the revenue from the higher margins.

But I'm not sure why that doesn't hold true in other markets...unless, I guess, it's just the nature of the urban ethnic and social diversity of a city like Chicago. If that's the case, I suppose the same would hold true in New York, and maybe LA...are the chains there so expensive relative to all the smaller independent shops or even much more local chains?

Any other thoughts?

The Jewel's and Dominick's of the world have much higher operating costs than the indies. They have to pay high union wages and health care, TV advertising, corporate salaries and expenses (ever have to pay for an audit from a big accounting firm?), etc. Plus, as you say they can charge more because the masses just don't know any better.

To me, there is a couple of interesting things going on with Chicago supermarkets. First, Dominicks and Jewel, really Dominicks, are getting replaced a lot in the city. Their presence is just dwindling. So, all the places listed, are gaining marketshare 'cause their big competion is just abandoning the market.

Second, many of the stores mentioned above seem amazingly capitalized. Take A&G, that store is amazing, for a "neighborhood" store, or even the Carneceria Guanajunto I mentioned. It is large, clean, spacious, well stocked. It hardly fits the model of a carneceria (which I do not mean as an insult.) I said this in another thread, but I suspect that there is some VC or private equity money somewhere in these new stores.*

Rob

*Interestingly, Delray Farms DID have some name investors, I think some of the Huizenga/Blockbuster/WMX gang (although do not quote me on that). And exactly opposite of the Blockbuster strategy, Delray was too early into the market.

Delray was successful when they went into submarkets with no effective competition but had their heads handed to them in slices when they expanded into markets where there was competition. My limited exposure to Delray was prices higher than the chain supermarkets with lower quality produce. They got away with this approach in some ghetto neighborhoods where the local stores were really pathetic in quality, selection and prices. The approach didn't transfer very well. I am kind of sorry that they never opened a projected store on Irving Park Road a little west of California. It would have put them in a totally different market. Note that two Mexican fruit and vegetable stores failed in that site even before Cermak Produce opened less than a mile away.

Small note on A&G. IIRC they had some TIF financing and possibly favorable lease terms because the empty old Goldblatt's store they moved into had been a major problem for the neighborhood. Incidentally, the A&G owners are Italian immigrants who had quite a track record a couple of blocks away from their current location. The store has a lot of Polish groceries and customers but definitely is not a Polish market.

I would not underestimate the role of Target and Costco in the decline of Dominicks and to a lesser extent Jewel. Both Target and Costco undercut the grocery chains prices in nonfood items, which tend to have much better margins than food items. When the advertised sale prices at the supermarkets are the same or higher than Target's regular prices, you know there is a competitive problem.

The independents have some major flexibility advantages that may not translate very well into markets away from a city like Chicago, which has an extensive network of produce and meat wholesalers. Anybody who shops regularly at places like Harvest Time and Cermak Produce notes how responsive their prices and selections are to market fluctuations. The chain supermarkets have some real adaptation problems with their long supply chains and centralized buying of perishables. That extra layer of warehouses alone is a serious cost and quality problem. I doubt that the economies of size offset the diseconomies of size for produce in these chains. As an economist I am using size rather than scale very explicitly because there are important differences in meaning of the two terms.

Cathy2 wrote:

Kwe wrote:Where is the Sunset Foods in Libertyville located and how do you feel that it compares to the others?

I principally go to the Highland Park location, which is pretty much a land-locked location. The Libertyville location is the newest and built from scratch. I presume it is the store they would love the HP location to be if they were not landlocked.

Though the HP location is tight by contemporary grocery store standards, they have a lot in that store and constantly restocking. Their service is exemplary. You ask someone for something and often they walk you to the location. Another time the guy didn't know, kept looking for it and found me in the store once he had it. If you are checking out and forgot something, they send someone to get it. They unload your cart for you. There is always senior management visible and ready to address your questions. It is the fastest grocery store to get in and out of.

Going to these pre-election candidate teas, I learned Sunset had an opportunity to take over the old Jewel Food location on Central. Unfortunately, they did not take advantage of the situation due to internal family strife. I also learned they are not pleased about Sam's coming to town.

Regards,

This is just what they did four years ago in Northbrook (which, by the way, is actually the newest Sunset store, being about three years younger than the Libertyville store). The old Sunset store on the south side of Cherry Lane (now a bank) was funky, entertaining, unique -- and very small. The new location on the north side of Cherry Lane (a former Jewel location, by the way) is huge, uncrowded, modern -- and not at all charming. But it certainly out Libertyville's the Libertyville location (which was my store for three years, right from its opening in 1998). I have a feeling the Northbrook store is the culmination of the dreams of the Sunset family; and it's kind of a disappointment.

Hi Jim,

Well, you can tell I almost never shop the Northbrook Store. I probably was in the old one and not the new.

Where the Amish Furniture Store is on Deerfield Road, just east of Waukegan Road used to be a grocery store. At one time it was run by a Cortesi (the family which owns Sunset foods) family member who broke away. It didn't succeed.

Regards,

I was just in the Libertyville Sunset. I didn't find it appreciably better than the HP one. Those stores are harder to move around in than the smaller Whole Foods and Trader Joes, and that is saying a *lot.* The people who shop in those places seem to have a special gift for blocking aisles.

In kind of the same vein as Sunset, you have DJs in Glencoe, a sister store in downtown Winnetka and I think one more with a different name on Green Bay. I wouldn't go so far as to call them favorites for some of the same reasons as Sunset but, like Sunset, they have a few products I don't see elsewhere and I usually drop in when passing by.

sazerac wrote:I'm not sure if this is "Independent" but seems successful given their new openings. (newest listed first)

Pete's Market
4343 S Pulaski Rd,
(773) 927-4300

Pete's Fresh Market
4700 S Kedzie Ave
(773) 523-460

Pete's Market
5724 S Kedzie Ave
(773) 925-6200

I don't know if this deserves its own topic and thread but Pete's is also opening a location in Evergreen Park on 95th street in b/w Pulaski and Kedzie. I was at the 43rd and Pulaski location yesterday and a manager told me that they're anticipating/hoping for a August 2008 opening.