NY Times: "The Fat Pack Wonder if the Party's Over"

Did anyone else read the article in today's New York Times titled, "The Fat Pack Wonder if the Party's Over"? Interesting article that focuses on weight problems of many foodies. As someone who's trying to lose a few pounds, I could sympathize! It's easy to live in denial, but at some point I guess we have to face the fact that our love of food could lead any or all of us to an early death.

I certainly battled it myself having topped out at around 330 lbs just slightly over two years ago.

Via weight loss surgery, a really good exercise program and a great medical team that has supervised me, I've dropped 120 lbs, chaged my physique completely and found that I can still enjoy just about any food that I used to (turkey seems to exclude itself) in greater moderation. I found many of the tricks that perlow mentined work for me also (not eating after 6 pm, allowing myself a treat once a day)

My "fight" was chronicled herein:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

The cultures of great cuisine, including Italy, France, Japan, China, Thailand, etc., eat astonishingly well without being fat. The sensibilities of this forum, at their best, go beyond the search for various euphoric food fixes and explore salubrious and delicious ways of life, so much of which, given our biological reality, depends on procuring, preparing and eating food.

JeffB wrote:The cultures of great cuisine, including Italy, France, Japan, China, Thailand, etc., eat astonishingly well without being fat.

Well, the US is a far cry from any of those countries. There are dozens and dozens of reasons why the US obesity rate is what it is and gets the international attention that it does. Also, I believe that most if not all of the countries you've cited are seeing their own increases in obesity.

JeffB wrote:The sensibilities of this forum, at their best, go beyond the search for various euphoric food fixes and explore salubrious and delicious ways of life, so much of which, given our biological reality, depends on procuring, preparing and eating food.

Hedonist that I am, I must be of the LTH gutter because my sensibilities rarely, if ever, rise to such heights. I am usually after the euphoric food fixes. The issue that the NYT article raises is interesting, particularly in regard to a community as close-knit as LTH. Eating is a biological reality but so is obesity. I don't think the latter should be dismissed in any context but especially not in a community that regularly celebrates excess (celebration, in which I regularly partake). It's a difficult and sobering topic, one that Will has brought to LTH in a incredibly candid and touching way. Thank you to Will and others who've assumed the responsibility--because I do see it as a kind of civic responsibility--to bring attention to such important issues.

I'm just going to say that if Chicago and the midwest in general were to reduce their portion sizes that gradually I think we'd see a decrease in obseity. I still can't believe how big portions are here compared to the east coast and west coast.

jpschust wrote:I'm just going to say that if Chicago and the midwest in general were to reduce their portion sizes that gradually I think we'd see a decrease in obseity. I still can't believe how big portions are here compared to the east coast and west coast.

Do you think that would be feasible though? Even with an excellent public health campaign? Some co-workers and I were just discussing Midwest food portions, and it seems that portion size in this part of the country is very much tied to the importance attributed to value in general, i.e. more food=better value, rather than super-sized appetites. I agree that portions can be very large, but it seems like the Midwest would have to change fundamentally for portion sizes to decrease.

happy_stomach wrote:

JeffB wrote:The cultures of great cuisine, including Italy, France, Japan, China, Thailand, etc., eat astonishingly well without being fat.

Well, the US is a far cry from any of those countries. There are dozens and dozens of reasons why the US obesity rate is what it is and gets the international attention that it does. Also, I believe that most if not all of the countries you've cited are seeing their own increases in obesity.

The book "Fast Food Nation" had an interesting stat about how there's a direct correlation between the entry of McDonald's into a country and the rise in that country's obesity rates. (Sorry...I lent by book to a friend so I can't cite the exact info.)

I thought the article was interesting and provocative. As a group, we celebrate food. But we rarely acknowledge (at least on this board) that our love of food has led some of us to have weight and health problems. I've read Will's thread chronically his own battle, and I commend him for it. It takes a lot of strength and a certain amount of humility to stand up and say, "I have a problem with my weight," particularly in a site that, at times, celebrates excess.

In regards to large portion sizes being blamed for obesity, I have not been to a restaurant yet where a diner is strapped into their seat until they clean their plate.

With the above tongue in cheek comment out of the way I recently did a 3 stop lunch at 3 places I either wanted to try or return to. Smoque, where my wife, daughter, and I split a half slab of ribs, and some brisket, Semiramis where I had shwarma, and my wife the half chicken (leftovers were taken home in a doggy bag for future lunches for her), and a visit to Sun Wah BBQ, where we sampled some of their duck, and pork(leftovers were taken home as well). We came home full, not stuffed, and will do similar food runs in the future. Its a matter of knowing when to push oneself away from the table.

I deeply appreciate how difficult this issue is for anyone trying to lose more than 40 lbs, but another part of this issue is the black/white extremes in language our culture uses around weight. There's a major difference between matronly and obese, and I hate that people who could maybe lose a few are lumped in the same health category as those whose weight actually poses a serious health threat.

I used to think that the obesity epedemic had more to do with eating badly than with eating too much, but when placed in the context of foodies, that doesn't seem to bear out. Recently, CNNdid a report on how immigrant children in particular are struggling with obesity. It really struck me as the little boy in the episode was talking, how easy it is to access calories in our culture and how everpresent they are. The psychology is discussed in the CSPI newsletter years ago; they showed how variety impacts your desire to eat by asking readers to see how many you eat out of a bowl of single-colored M&Ms as opposed to the multi-colored ones - and, if anything, food blogging and forums are all about variety.

The book "Fast Food Nation" had an interesting stat about how there's a direct correlation between the entry of McDonald's into a country and the rise in that country's obesity rates. (Sorry...I lent by book to a friend so I can't cite the exact info.)

I would also assume that introduction of McDonald's also correllates quite nicely with a reduction in cholera. Does that mean McNuggets prevent cholera? No. Correllation does not mean causation.

McDonald's goes to countries where people have enough disposable income to afford McDonald's. When people get disposable income many things happen. Foremost amongst them is eating more calorie dense foods, because those foods make our brains happy. A more affluent country exercises less (they may exercise for fun, but more people work sedentary jobs, have transportation options other than their feet, more home appliances, etc.) and, yes, have better sanitation that reduces cholera.

Bottom line: it is easy to blame McDonald's for many things. Are they blameless for the increased tubbiness of Americans? Probably no. However blaming McDonald's when there are a host of confounding factors is sloppy thinking.

Now personally I prefer the term pleasantly plump. I really do think the portions are too large. I feel, for example, I would like a plate of pasta half the size for half the price. Do places really need to serve a pound of pasta as your meal? As far as not being strapped down, if you grew up in my house as a kid you were strapped down and had to finish everything on your plate until you were excused. That has a profound effect later in life on a subconsious level. You don't even realize you are over eating. I have started my weight loss quest and am down 25lbs and going. Though I still do tend to overeat

davecamaro,

interesting perspective on the "being strapped down at the table as a child until you cleaned your plate" issue.

As a child of a Great Depression Era father I had to clean my plate of everything, even ketchup or other condiments before I could be excused from the table, that led to some multiple hours long tests of will back in the day.. So when I got out of that atmosphere it felt liberating to be able to leave food on the plate once I was full.

I'm a pleasantly petite person no matter what I eat(and I eat whatever, whenever...metabolism! so wonderful! so enviable!...feh...)...so, maybe I don't have any dogs in the race. Except..."huge portions" I hate them[yes, I can doggy bag(hell, I doggy bag smaller portions)].

This threads into host etiquette, but I despise the imposition to clean my plate or ask for seconds when I generally prefer (and need) to eat over stretches of time i.e. not gorge at one sitting. So...if I genuinely like the food made (with love) for me, but I can't cram down that "loving" extra portion AND ask for seconds...I'm somehow insulting my host. It's the opposite end of the spectrum...I've always been encouraged to gain weight by people who barely know me and certainly aren't familiar with my personal weight spectrum. My favorite way to dine? Many courses(variety/diversity) over a relaxing period of time, or, more likely...bites here and there of one large balanced meal...I physically can't devour regular Midwestern servings in one sitting. Which is why I'm almost ridiculously happy when I do manage to clean my plate(usually if I'm trying to appease someone I'm unfamiliar with and I've skipped an earlier meal).

happy_stomach wrote:

JeffB wrote:The cultures of great cuisine, including Italy, France, Japan, China, Thailand, etc., eat astonishingly well without being fat.

Well, the US is a far cry from any of those countries. There are dozens and dozens of reasons why the US obesity rate is what it is and gets the international attention that it does. Also, I believe that most if not all of the countries you've cited are seeing their own increases in obesity.

JeffB wrote:The sensibilities of this forum, at their best, go beyond the search for various euphoric food fixes and explore salubrious and delicious ways of life, so much of which, given our biological reality, depends on procuring, preparing and eating food.

Hedonist that I am, I must be of the LTH gutter because my sensibilities rarely, if ever, rise to such heights. I am usually after the euphoric food fixes. The issue that the NYT article raises is interesting, particularly in regard to a community as close-knit as LTH. Eating is a biological reality but so is obesity. I don't think the latter should be dismissed in any context but especially not in a community that regularly celebrates excess (celebration, in which I regularly partake). It's a difficult and sobering topic, one that Will has brought to LTH in a incredibly candid and touching way. Thank you to Will and others who've assumed the responsibility--because I do see it as a kind of civic responsibility--to bring attention to such important issues.

It is an important issue, and I don't see where I dismissed it. Will has demonstrated an astonishing and difficult exercise of free will. We're a bunch of brainy grown-ups around here. I agree with others that the NYT article and the health issues of gourmands are not about McDondald's purported calorie-peddling to children and others who need to be looked after.

I think that there is something to be said about how we, as American, eat and drink in comparison to those from other cultures.

For example, though Annie B might disagree, Brazilian eating culture centers around animal protein. Unlike us, they tend to grill or roast it exclusively versus fry it and braise it as we do. Other cultures also tend to eat complex carbs with their food more than simple carbs, or they may pair rice and legumes for the combined protein effect in place of meat as their primary source of protein.

The rest of the world tends to drink lots of wine and water with it's food versus the pop and diet pop that we consume with ours. From my own experience, I found that giving up pop was one of my own keys to weight loss success. In retrospect, i view pop as having been a far more harmful element of my diet than pretty much anything else that I ate.

Because in America, we have an abundance of food available to us, we tend to eat for pleasure rather than of necessity. I certainly was guily of that for years (and still am to a lesser degree today).

[quote="YourPalWill"]I
The rest of the world tends to drink lots of wine and water with it's food versus the pop and diet pop that we consume with ours. From my own experience, I found that giving up pop was one of my own keys to weight loss success. In retrospect, i view pop as having been a far more harmful element of my diet than pretty much anything else that I ate."

Wil you are absolutely correct. It goes beyond regular pop in diet as well. All the sodium in diet pop kept me from losing weight. Once I went to pure H2O I started to shed the pounds quicky. Diet pop is deceptive in that aspect

I'd be curious if why we eat is really because, like Mt. Everest, the food is there: we are, after all, wealthier than most of the other cultures mentioned here. I mean, this isn't a new problem - look at the Edwardiandiet and the health of Royalty.

This is where the advertising of large food companies bothers me: in a time of excess, making food so much more constantly everpresent certainly must have an effect, though blaming a single conglomerate is a little shortsighted. I'd be curious to see what effect restricting branded food advertisement in the way we regulate alcohol and cigarette advertisement would have on obesity rates. (I'm not advocating this, but it would be an interesting experiment.) With images of food everywhere you look, it takes real concentration not to succumb to mindless eating - I have real respect for anyone struggling with a weight problem in such an unsupportive environment.

As for myself, I did notice that about 5 of my omnipresent 20 extra pounds went away the summer we went without cable TV and Food Network. It's back now...

That's a really good point Mhays. When I was going through some lifestyle changes, i had my cable and internet turned off so that going to the gym or on a long walk would become my entertainment for the evening.

All the sodium in diet pop kept me from losing weight.

I'm curious about this (since I drink a lot of 0 calorie diet pop). Clarification?

all that salt makes you retain water. I was drinking prolly 4 or 5 a day and working out like mad and not losing weight fast at all. Once I quit the pop and went to water I started dropping almost 5 a week

davecamaro1994 wrote:all that salt makes you retain water. I was drinking prolly 4 or 5 a day and working out like mad and not losing weight fast at all. Once I quit the pop and went to water I started dropping almost 5 a week

I don't doubt that cutting back on the diet soda helped you lose weight -- nothing's healthier than water -- but sodium wasn't the culprit. Most diet sodas have on the order of 50mg per can, so even 5 a day would be just a tenth of your RDA of sodium. (For example, the numbers for Coca-Cola products are here)

YourPalWill wrote:That's a really good point Mhays. When I was going through some lifestyle changes, i had my cable and internet turned off so that going to the gym or on a long walk would become my entertainment for the evening.

I am in the same camp that TV (cable in particular) and the internet can be very evil for the waistline.

davecamaro1994 wrote:all that salt makes you retain water. I was drinking prolly 4 or 5 a day and working out like mad and not losing weight fast at all. Once I quit the pop and went to water I started dropping almost 5 a week

Moreso than the sodium issue we're seeing a lot of studies come out that say that all that induction of Nutrasweet and the like actually inhibits the ability to lose weight.

jpschust wrote:

davecamaro1994 wrote:all that salt makes you retain water. I was drinking prolly 4 or 5 a day and working out like mad and not losing weight fast at all. Once I quit the pop and went to water I started dropping almost 5 a week

Moreso than the sodium issue we're seeing a lot of studies come out that say that all that induction of Nutrasweet and the like actually inhibits the ability to lose weight.

I would agree. As part of my own process, I began using Stevia as a substitute for Nutrasweet and Splenda.

OK. I tried to stay out of it. I really did. With Roseanne Barr, I believe, "It's okay to be fat. So you're fat. Just be fat and shut up about it."

Likewise, if people are trying to lose weight, I wish they would just go and do it without making it my business. Nothing personal and with all due respect, but I don't care to hear any more about your diet plan, your exercise regime or your gastric-bypass surgery than I do about your life-insurance scheme, your sexual performance or your hernia operation. Since it's not my place to say, "Take it to your blog, please," I've clicked past and sat on my hands. "Live and let live," I said to myself.

However, in these times, when legislators are proposing to ban fat people from restaurants and presidential candidates are blaming fat people for Medicare's woes, I can't sit silently by while people, especially folks I highly respect, spout twaddle about obesity as a lifestyle choice of weak-minded, unhealthy gluttons with no willpower.

The reasons people get fat and stay fat are by no means understood and probably highly complex and varied, but obesity is not a moral disease.

New York Times: The Fat Pack Wonder if the Party's Over wrote:Mr. Shaw said he believes the genetic component of weight and health matter more than moderation and exercise. Although his father died from heart disease, he thinks that the state of medical knowledge on the relationship of diet to health changes so frequently that it can’t be trusted.

Some of his views about diet and health border on the extreme.

New York Times: Where Fat Is Problem, Heredity Is the Answer, Studies Find wrote:Investigators studying identical twins have found what experts call the most convincing evidence yet that heredity is destiny, as far as body fat is concerned.
Investigators studying identical twins have found what experts call the most convincing evidence yet that heredity is destiny, as far as body fat is concerned.

Although some researchers have long argued that there is a genetic component to body weight, the new studies ''add very compelling and scientifically rigorous evidence for the importance of genetic variables,'' said Dr. Judith Rodin, an obesity researcher at Yale University School of Medicine.

Dr. M. R. C. Greenwood, an obesity researcher at the University of California at Davis, said that when overweight people dieted and failed to remain slim, they often blamed themselves for a lack of will power or some other behavioral problem. But she said, ''These data say they fail because they have a genetic defect.''

Myriad Genetics Discovers Major Cause of Hereditary Obesity wrote:Myriad Genetics, Inc. (Nasdaq: MYGN), announced today that it has discovered a novel gene that causes human obesity. Myriad scientists led by Drs. Steven Stone and Donna Shattuck and University of Utah collaborators Drs. Steven Hunt and Ted Adams have named the gene HOB1, for Human Obesity 1, in recognition of its direct causal tie to obesity in humans. The HOB1 gene is a breakthrough discovery of an important gene for a complex genetic disorder....

"The HOB1 gene appears to be powerful evidence of the role of heredity in the cause of obesity," said Donna Shattuck, Ph.D., Vice President of Metabolic Disease Research for Myriad Genetics, Inc.

The Times: 'Fat' gene found by scientists wrote:A gene that contributes to obesity has been identified for the first time, promising to explain why some people easily put on weight while others with similar lifestyles stay slim.

People who inherit one version of the gene rather than another are 70 per cent more likely to be obese, British scientists have discovered. One in six people has the most vulnerable genetic make-up and weighs an average 3kg more than those with the lowest risk. They also have 15 per cent more body fat.

Reuters: Nature tops nurture in childhood obesity: study wrote:LONDON (Reuters) - Diet and lifestyle play a far smaller role than genetic factors in determining whether a child becomes overweight, according to a British study of twins published on Thursday.

Researchers looking at more than 5,000 pairs of twins wrote in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that genes account for about three-quarters of the differences in a child's waistline and weight.

"Contrary to the widespread assumption that family environment is the key factor in determining weight gain, we found this was not the case," said Jane Wardle, director of Cancer Research UK's Health Behavior Centre, who led the study.

AP: Some Experts Doubt Obesity Epidemic wrote:In 2005, Katherine Flegal of the United States' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a study in the Journal of the American Medical Association, finding that overweight people typically live longer than normal-weight people. More than a dozen other studies have come to the same conclusion.... In other research, Flegal and colleagues found there to be almost no link between death rates and weight....

Some obesity skeptics question the motives of experts who make dire predictions about obesity....

When WHO defined the body mass index scores constituting normal, overweight and obese, they appeared to be the result of an independent expert committee convened by WHO.

Yet the 1997 Geneva consultation was held jointly with the International Obesity Task Force, an advocacy group whose self-described mission is "to inform the world about the urgency of the (obesity) problem."

According to the task force's most recent available annual report, more than 70 percent of their funding came from Abbott Laboratories and F. Hoffman La-Roche, companies which make top-selling anti-fat pills.

Despite these and other studies, people have been so brainwashed with the obesity myth that they prefer to believe that only Americans are fat, that earlier generations were not fat, and that fat people are immoral, undisciplined, lazy, unfit, stupid and ugly, not to mention child abusers, a drain on society and harmful to the environment.

Doubtless someone can, and probably will, cite five opinions that say fat people eat too much for every one I've posted above, but this forum will be poorer if fear of anti-fat stigmatism causes its largest-living members to stop posting about their dining experiences out of concern that others will judge them (see image) by how much they eat.

That's fine that you're willing to take the argument that it's ok to be fat and eat whatever you want, but the reality is that it's a problem not just for individuals but for the nation as well. It's a worthy discussion. You are right though- the reasons for being fat aren't simple. You can't pin it simply to McDonalds. That said, the way to lose weight is relatively simple. Calories out minus calories in resulting in a net loss will make anyone lose weight.

I have to admit that I never had any social or psychological issues resulting from my heft. I was never dissatisfied with myself because of my weight.

Honestly, I considered myself pretty well adjusted then and pretty well adjusted now. FWIW, I'm still fat. I'm just not as fat as I once was.

Your post seems to assume, without any explanation, that you believe that folks who look to lose or keep weight off are vapid, self absorbed types who aren't happy with themselves. That's the farthest thing from reality where I'm concerned. I find many things in life to make me happy. Sharing good food with friends and family is just one of those things. There are so many more components of a happy, well rounded life.

For me, it came down to a health decision. There were clear signs, in the form of sleep apnea, high blood pressure, high triglyceride count, and rising blood sugar that my excess body weight was contributing to some fairly serious health issues. These were all measurable recognized health indicators. They certainly weren't based upon some fallacious fantasy of a blog writer.

My doctor had been on my ass for several years to lose weight. It was only when I coupled his advice with what I could clearly see in my own medical tests that I made the decision to do what I did.

I'm sorry that you don't appreciate my plight, LAZ. I have certainly heard your criticisms of my "fight" chronicle from other forum members that you have expressed it to over the past couple of years.

What I have tried to share with the readers of this forum over the past two or so years is that I have learned how to continue to enjoy great food and also do it in a way, and with some tools, that contributes to better personal health for myself. As a result, I have had a few private discussions with folks, either by PM or face to face, who are interested in learning more about my situation in depth because some of them have the same concerns that I once did.

To me, being able to interact with those few folks, makes exposing my whole experience for the world of L|TH to see worthwhile. It wasn't an easy decision to make to open my life for the world to see. When I started, I had no idea whether I would succeed or fail. There were certainly days that I felt that failure was imminent. My goal was to share both the good side and the bad side of my whole experience while letting others gather what they could from it.

LTH is a Chicago based culinary chat site. It's not a site exclusive to gluttony though I have certainly been involved in events with members of this site that could be construed as nothing short of that.

I really enjoy your contributions here and have a great appreciation for the effort that you make in making this forum the great resource that it is.

I hope that, upon reflection, you'll view posts like this one, not as judgment of folks that are heavier. Instead, I hope that you'll view them as part of the broad spectrum of culinary issues that Gary and crew allow us to discuss here. If you'll recall, it was "laser focus" elsewhere that caused many of us to migrate here in the first place.

YourPalWill wrote:I hope that, upon reflection, you'll view posts like this one, not as judgment of folks that are heavier. Instead, I hope that you'll view them as part of the broad spectrum of culinary issues that Gary and crew allow us to discuss here. If you'll recall, it was "laser focus" elsewhere that caused many of us to migrate here in the first place.

Agree completely. We had a thread about food and (or vs.) art, why not food and health?

These days one nice thing (in my opinion) is that a lot of writers are tackling food, health and weight issues from all kinds of angles. An example is our own Chicago writer Wendy McClure. (Don't know her; haven't even met her but I like her style.) I've yet to find a single writer I really agree with on all points, but I always find it interesting. The one type of comment I don't understand at all is, "This topic is useless" or "There's really nothing to this topic but xyz; let's move on." Can that really be true of something that occupies so many people?

...

I am reminded of a recent article in the Reader that my husband pointed out to me, entitled How Shy Became Sick. As we were discussing this issue, both of us inclined towards anti-medication, I realized that, in making the argument that pharmaceutical companies were driving people to medicate, the author had missed an important issue: do shy people want to be shy? Shouldn't it be up to the individual to decide if shyness bothers them or not?

I'd draw a parallel here to weight: I agree; it seems Americans want a say in the shape of everyone else's body - I am horrified by how pervasive this attitude is and and how far it goes, especially the municipalities that plan to legislate access to food based on weight. On the other hand, the decision to change your body is an equally valid individual, and personal, choice. Both of these subjects relate to food, and I am interested in hearing what LTHers have to say about them.