What is Gelato?

I found the beginnings of the gelato debate in this thread interesting, so thought I'd start a new one about just this subject. I have had countless arguments with people about what, if anything, makes "gelato" different from "ice cream". I've discussed the question with professional chefs, culinary historians, Italian sociologists, and lots of experienced eaters. One consistent theme emerged from these discussions: people who think the difference lies in something beyond language have passionate feelings and tend to be 100% sure that they're right. However, I have not found a single shred of evidence that there's any objective difference between gelato and ice cream. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of ice cream recipes: some call for a custard, some don't. Some use a dozen eggs or more, some use none. All cream. All milk. Some of each. Any of these combinations can be called ice cream.

Here's my take: Ice cream and gelato are synonymous, generic terms that describe a multitude of recipes and techniques. It just happens that this country has lots of lousy stuff we call ice cream, and Italiphiles don't like their product to be lumped with that Dolly Madison crap.

Air.

Do a little more research on that subject and see if you still feel the same way

(You might! But that's what I understand to be arguably the biggest difference.)

Kennyz wrote:Here's my take: Ice cream and gelato are synonymous, generic terms that describe a multitude of recipes and techniques.

I think that's basically right. If anything, gelato is a subset or a style of ice cream, just as frozen custard or Philadelphia are styles of ice cream. They're all still ice creams according to FDA definitions.

The one thing that seems common in most gelatos is the low overrun, but anyone can slap the word gelato on any frozen, wet, sweet dairy product.

Many places (see Wikipedia) claim that gelato should have a fairly low butterfat content (5% - 8%, vs. a minimum of 10% for the FDA definition of "ice cream'), overrun of 35% or less, and may or may not contain egg. However, the highly authoritative Harold McGee, in On Food and Cooking, defines it as high in butterfat (18% - higher than Haagen Dazs), extremely low overrun (0% - 10%), plus 4% - 8% egg yolk solids.

So, other than the low overrun, there's no generally accepted definition. Interestingly (at least for a geek like me) the Wikipedia article claims that different types of freezers are used for gelato vs.other types of ice cream. I'm sure that would be news to the folks at Taylor, the dominant maker of batch ice cream freezers for small ice cream shops, who offer a variety of freezers suited to making either gelato or other styles of ice cream.

The good news is, if you make ice cream at home, most home ice cream makers produce products relatively low in overrun. So go ahead and feel free to call what you get out of then gelato.

Dmnkly wrote:Air.

Do a little more research on that subject and see if you still feel the same way

(You might! But that's what I understand to be arguably the biggest difference.)

I am only mildly embarrassed to admit that I have done a ton of research already. I find no empirical evidence that air is a differentiator. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but perhaps you could tell me why you think the air content is different in ice cream? The air content from one ice cream to the next can be dramatically different. I don't think ice cream calls for any particular amount of air.

Dmnkly wrote:Air.

I'd add a higher storage/service temperature to that.

Less air = denser product = not so appealing at American ice cream temperatures (read: freezes hard like a brick).

eatchicago wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:Air.

I'd add a higher storage/service temperature to that.

Less air = denser product = not so appealing at American ice cream temperatures (read: freezes hard like a brick).

Any decent restaurant keeps ice cream in a special cooler so it can be served at just the right temperature. I can confidently say that freezer temperature is not part of the recipe for ice cream.

Kennyz wrote:Any decent restaurant keeps ice cream in a special cooler so it can be served at just the right temperature. I can confidently say that freezer temperature is not part of the recipe for ice cream.

Yes. Ice cream should be served at just the right temperature and so should gelato. Those temperatures are different.

eatchicago wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:Air.

I'd add a higher storage/service temperature to that.

Less air = denser product = not so appealing at American ice cream temperatures (read: freezes hard like a brick).

Sorry, but temperature really isn't an issue. Packaged gelatos go into the same types of hardening cabinets, and go through the same distribution systems as other ice cream products.

And yes, gelato is typically pretty dense, due to the low overrun, but that doesn't necessarily mean it freezes like a brick. The ultimate frozen consistency can be controlled in formulation of the mix. For example, using HFCS instead of sucrose, and/or adding an alcohol component to the mix, can raise the freezing point, resulting in a very dense, smooth, scoopable product straight out of a typical home freezer at 0° F.

So, I think proper serving temperature is more a function of the formula of the product, not whether it says "ice cream" or "gelato" on the label.

Kennyz wrote:I don't think ice cream calls for any particular amount of air.

That's not exactly true. FDA standards call for a maximum of 100% overrun (although I've known a few ice cream plants who stretched that to 105% or 110%, because it's rare that overrun levels are ever checked by the feds). There's no minimum, but it's very tough to make an ice cream at very low overrun levels that doesn't have an undesirable, greasy mouthfeel.

So all this time, all this "gelato" I've been eating that has been served at a noticeably higher temperature, with a very different texture than american-style ice creams has been a figment of my imagination? Are my temperature receptors fooled by fancy marketing?

And, yes, food science can make many products perform in a variety of manners. I tend to think more of a traditional, small-batch, daily-made product, (produzione propria were some of the indicators that sparked my interest while in Italy) rather than something that can be concocted in a lab by a corporation.

So, to further qualify the question: If you're going to walk into a home-made ice cream shop in let's say Wisconsin or Maine and a gelateria advertising "produzione propria" in Florence, will you receive different products? I've done both, many times, and I say, yes, these products are different. Related, but different.

nr706 wrote:

Kennyz wrote:I don't think ice cream calls for any particular amount of air.

That's not exactly true. FDA standards call for a maximum of 100% overrun. There's no minimum, but it's very tough to make an ice cream at very low overrun levels that doesn't have an undesirable, greasy mouthfeel.

The fda also says that milk must be pasteurized. Does that mean that unpasteurized milk is not really milk? Like the pasteurization rule, the overrun regulation is there to protect consumers, not to create a definition of the product. With more air, the product would melt more easily, creating problems in transport and storage. The fda regulation is there to guard against those issues.

They are probably products with different organoleptics, but there's no way to be sure they really will be every time, in every shop. Like so many things, it's all up to the purveyor. There are many fine places, both here and abroad (and I confess, I don't know about labeling regulations overseas) that serve gelatos that are very good, and have different characteristics than other products labeled "ice cream" - even the very good ice creams.

But there are other places that will serve their "gelato" out of the same cabinets that also hold what used to be called "ice milk."

However, in the US, if it's labeled "gelato," the FDA will technically define it as "ice cream, "reduced-fat ice cream," or "light ice cream."

nr706 wrote:But there are other places that will serve their "gelato" out of the same cabinets that also hold what used to be called "ice milk."

And there are many places that boil a slab of ribs and call it "real BBQ".

Sounds like we're starting to go down that road again with this discussion.

nr706 wrote:However, in the US, if it's labeled "gelato," the FDA will technically define it as "ice cream, "reduced-fat ice cream," or "light ice cream."

The FDA also tells me to cook my pork until it's inedible. I don't really trust them in matters of taste.

Basically, it sounds to me like you're bringing up the BBQ-style argument of "if enough people say it's so, then it's so".

Kennyz wrote:The fda also says that milk must be pasteurized. Does that mean that unpasteurized milk is not really milk? Like the pasteurization rule, the overrun regulation is there to protect consumers, not to create a definition of the product. With more air, the product would melt more easily, creating problems in transport and storage. The fda regulation is there to guard against those issues.

Sorry if this is getting tedious.

But it is the FDA's mission, in part, to set up and monitor definitions of what food products are, and what they can be called or labeled. That's different from their regulations describing what processes the food must go through to enter the public food stream.

As mentioned above, air levels don't necessarily affect meltpoints - there are ways to impact that in product formulation (and when I talk about product formulation, that can refer equally to the person at the independent corner ice cream store as it can to the scientist at the large R&D lab at a major food company).

Yes, to some extent the overrun regulations are there to protect consumers, but they are also integral to the definition of the product, as spelled out in federal statutes.

eatchicago wrote:The FDA also tells me to cook my pork until it's inedible. I don't really trust them in matters of taste.

Basically, it sounds to me like you're bringing up the BBQ-style argument of "if enough people say it's so, then it's so".

I don't think I am. The FDA's meat cooking recommendations are just that - recommendations (and pretty bad ones, at that). You can chose to observe or ignore them as you like.

The FDA's labeling regulations are different. You could make the world's most wonderful frozen dessert at 3% butterfat and 120% overrun, but you can't legally choose to observe or ignore the federal regulation that it can't be labeled ice cream. The labeling isn't a recommendation, it's law. If you chose to sell such a product and call it ice cream, you'd be subject to recall, fines, and maybe jail time.

And, of course (maybe sadly), there's no legal FDA definition of what BBQ is.

nr706 wrote:

Kennyz wrote:The fda also says that milk must be pasteurized. Does that mean that unpasteurized milk is not really milk? Like the pasteurization rule, the overrun regulation is there to protect consumers, not to create a definition of the product. With more air, the product would melt more easily, creating problems in transport and storage. The fda regulation is there to guard against those issues.

Sorry if this is getting tedious.

But it is the FDA's mission, in part, to set up and monitor definitions of what food products are, and what they can be called or labeled. That's different from their regulations describing what processes the food must go through to enter the public food stream.

I'll grant that the FDA can define what can commercially be called ice cream in the United States. But I still don't see how that's any more meaningful than the "definition" of milk, which the FDA says must be pasteurized. Can it really be argued that unpasteurized milk is not really milk? To me, that's the same non-argument that says ice cream isn't ice cream because it has some arbitrarily defined amount of air.

On another note, when is it going to warm up enough so that we all can get out of the house and eat ice cream, gelato, or whatever instead of having these circular arguments? I say this discussion will be much more fun during the giro on May 31!

Kennyz wrote:But I still don't see how that's any more meaningful than the "definition" of milk, which the FDA says must be pasteurized. Can it really be argued that unpasteurized milk is not really milk? To me, that's the same non-argument that says ice cream isn't ice cream because it has some arbitrarily defined amount of air.

I just double-checked the FDA website, and I can't find a citing that specifically says all milk must be pasteurized. But if you can point me to it, I'd be interested in seeing it. I believe pasteurization requirements are on a state-by-state basis. But again, if I'm wrong, I'm open-minded and I'll take a look.

The difference is that one (pasteurization) is based on processing methods, the other is based on the actual finished product. Unpasteurized milk is labeled milk, and in fact is available if you search it out in certain states that don't require pasteurization under some circumstances.

Wikipedia wrote:Raw milk may be sold from the farm in 28 states under varying restrictions. In California, Connecticut, Maine, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and New Mexico it may be sold in stores. Washington State allows raw milk to be sold with restrictions

Of course, you have every right to disagree with codified definitions of what a food product is. But I would argue that, rightly or wrongly, the FDA's overrun standard is pretty liberal, and you can always make a similar product with a higher overrun and call it a "frozen dessert" or some such thing.

Here's the websitethat says milk packaged for drinking must be pasteurized. I'd also note that with ice cream, neither the nomenclature nor the product was invented in the United States, so I don't think the FDA can do anything broader than define what's allowed to be packaged in this country.

You've got me thinking about this, Kenny... I know there's a lot of conflicting info out there. I'm in touch with a couple of gelato makers and I'm going to find out what they say. One's a fellow in Hong Kong who is from Northern Italy, trained in Vienna and his gelato is incredible. We've corresponded a bit, so hopefully he'll feel comfortable sharing his thoughts. The other is a new friend and neighbor here in Baltimore who's a fourth generation gelataia from Venice (her husband, incidentally, has laid claim to the invention of tiramisu -- and has a credible tale to tell -- but that's another story for another time).

her husband, incidentally, has laid claim to the invention of tiramisu -- and has a credible tale to tell -- but that's another story for another time

Wow! Quite a claim. But before others start searching through the archives, to corroborate or debunk, let me post this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 327_2.html

jbw wrote:

her husband, incidentally, has laid claim to the invention of tiramisu -- and has a credible tale to tell -- but that's another story for another time

Wow! Quite a claim. But before others start searching through the archives, to corroborate or debunk, let me post this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 327_2.html

That's him

Bruna, his wife, is the gelataia.

David Lebovitz has an essay on "What is Gelato?"

http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archives/2 ... elato.html

There's more, but he says:
"'Gelato' means 'frozen' in Italian, so it embraces the various kinds of ice cream made in Italy, and that's the best definition one can offer."

He does go on to offer that gelato generally has less air and less fat and is stored warmer than ice cream.

That's a great article - thanks leek. I think what it basically says is that everyone in this thread is correct. Gelato and ice cream are both generic words that are basically synonymous, but it also seems true that what's sold as "Gelato" is usually made differently than what's sold as "ice cream."

Although they are both Ice Cream of sort, Gelato is usualy around 30% fat and American Ice Cream can get up to 80% fat (stay away from Cold Stone chemicals)

Elie wrote:Although they are both Ice Cream of sort, Gelato is usualy around 30% fat and American Ice Cream can get up to 80% fat (stay away from Cold Stone chemicals)

What?

Gelato is about 5-10% fat and American ice cream is about 10-18% fat. They're both mostly water, with milk solids, flavoring, and sugar making up the rest.

stay away from Cold Stone chemicals

Elie did mention Cold Stone, after all. That's not ice cream - it's vaguely sugar-flavored lard. 80% is probably not so far off the mark.

gleam wrote:Gelato is about 5-10% fat and American ice cream is about 10-18% fat. They're both mostly water, with milk solids, flavoring, and sugar making up the rest.

A shining example of the point I made in the original post. People who believe there is some inherent non-semantic difference between ice cream and gelato feel so strongly about it that they can cite statistics and numbers with such assuredness, you'd think there were actually some empirical evidence that the numbers were based in fact. Here we have whole thread full of conflicting notions from (mostly) reputable sources, yet still posts come in confidently proclaiming exactly what gelato is or isn't (and the what it "is" is often dramatically different from one firmly cited "definition" to the next). It's the Italian word for ice cream. Or, more accurately, ice cream is the English term for gelato. I stand by my belief that the difference is in language, not numbers or even method. A remarkable phenomenon though - that people can be so sure of something based on, well, I don't know what it's based on.

Kennyz wrote:

gleam wrote:Gelato is about 5-10% fat and American ice cream is about 10-18% fat. They're both mostly water, with milk solids, flavoring, and sugar making up the rest.

A shining example of the point I made in the original post. People who believe there is some inherent non-semantic difference between ice cream and gelato feel so strongly about it that they can cite statistics and numbers with such assuredness, you'd think there were actually some empirical evidence that the numbers were based in fact. Here we have whole thread full of conflicting notions from (mostly) reputable sources, yet still posts come in confidently proclaiming exactly what gelato is or isn't (and the what it "is" is often dramatically different from one firmly cited "definition" to the next).

True, but just because there's conflicting information from many "reliable" sources, that doesn't necessarily mean they're all right

But I understand your point. There's very little agreement.

Shrug, my point was more that it's not anywhere close to the 50-80% someone else mentioned.

That said, I've seen very few gelato recipes that call for as much milkfat as the ice cream recipes I've seen -- the vast majority are made exclusively or almost exclusively with whole milk, no cream, no half and half. The few that do involve cream tend to use about a 2:1 or 3:1 milk to cream ratio. By contrast, the ice cream recipe Beth and I use calls for a 3:5 milk to cream ratio.

I'm not trying to say this is how every gelato out there or every ice cream out there is made, this is just my experience. It's quite possible there are traditional gelaterias out there making it with a very high fat content.

Also: I do think that the term "gelato" has been applied far too broadly, and I know that things exist like Emeril Lagasse's gelato recipes which are just.. weird. But I don't think the term has been fully diluted, and I think the main difference between gelato and superpremium ice cream is the fat content.

I think the difference between gelato and non-premium/non-superpremium ice cream is the amount of air in the mix.. cheap ice creams tend to have a lot of overrun, sometimes 50% air by volume. My experience has been that most gelati are much denser.

This discussion bears a resemblence to the relationship between words and the dictionary.

Some people erroneously believe the dictionary is the final arbiter of a word's definition. But the reality is, dictionaries report on a word's usage. To use an internet-related example: Twenty years ago, "spam" would have been defined as a processed, canned meat product. Gradually, people began to use the word "spam" to describe unwanted emails. But when that definition first rose to prominence, you wouldn't have found the definition in any dictionary. Only after the term gained popularity was it memorialized in a dictionary.

I suspect that the history of "ice cream" and "gelato" is probably similar. Once upon a time, there was a single product that involved creating a dairy, sugar, flavoring, egg-based mixture, then freezing it. We called all of those mixtures "ice cream." Eventually enough variations in "ice cream" developed that we found the need to create new words to describe them. Not a lot of fat? We'll call it ice milk. More of a custard-style base? We'll call it frozen custard. Etc. But the world works in a way where we innovate, then we decide what to call it. You're looking for a hard and fast definition, but I don't believe that the first person to ever make gelato immediately declared: "This shall have 8% butterfat, 35% overrun, shall be stored at XX temperature and shall be called gelato." (Nor do I believe such a thing happened when ice cream was first invented.) And, the fact is that the FDA makes regulations defining ice cream, in part, because the National Association of Ice Cream Manufacturers (or some such lobby) convinces them that such a definition is needed to differentiate the low-end ice milk producers from the high-end producers. It's about sales and marketing.

Bottom line: a definition is determined by the group concensus, not by some authoritarian organization (though the authoritarian organization may later step in and promulgate an "official" definition, but that only means so much).