JeffB wrote:To the ragu, I still don't understand how the combination of a sauce that cooks all day (and thus is either there to be ladled onto the pasta or is not by the time the customer orders it) and a pasta that cooks in moments justifies the waits described upthread. I might never know.

Are you talking about the wait to get a table? We called on Tuesday and got a Friday night reservation. I was a little surprise a table was available, actually, on such short notice. It's a small restaurant with very reasonable prices.

Darren72 wrote:

JeffB wrote:To the ragu, I still don't understand how the combination of a sauce that cooks all day (and thus is either there to be ladled onto the pasta or is not by the time the customer orders it) and a pasta that cooks in moments justifies the waits described upthread. I might never know.

Are you talking about the wait to get a table? We called on Tuesday and got a Friday night reservation. I was a little surprise a table was available, actually, on such short notice. It's a small restaurant with very reasonable prices.

I think he meant the wait for food to hit the table.

Dmnkly wrote:

Darren72 wrote:

JeffB wrote:To the ragu, I still don't understand how the combination of a sauce that cooks all day (and thus is either there to be ladled onto the pasta or is not by the time the customer orders it) and a pasta that cooks in moments justifies the waits described upthread. I might never know.

Are you talking about the wait to get a table? We called on Tuesday and got a Friday night reservation. I was a little surprise a table was available, actually, on such short notice. It's a small restaurant with very reasonable prices.

I think he meant the wait for food to hit the table.

Ah, sorry. JeffB did say "described upthread," but I was just a little to lazy to actually check what he was referring to. As Emily Litella would say, nevermind.

(For what it's worth, the pace of our meal was perfect. I think it's clear that a lot of this stuff is very random.)

I suddenly found myself kidless and wifeless for just long enough to dine somewhere close by last night. And an idea popped into my head-- maybe this was, at last, my chance to try TerraGusto again. It had been over a year, since that time I tried walking in with the whole family and was turned away. Now, at least, I wouldn't have the rest of them staring at me wondering what to do when I was turned away. And it would be a chance to evaluate the reports of Terragusto's friendliness-- or unwelcoming quirkiness.

I popped my head around 5:45. It was obvious that they were not open yet, but when I asked about the possibility of dining, Theo quickly looked at the reservations and made me one for 6 pm. (Point 1: walk-ins are possible, though they do book fairly full.) Then I decided to push their hospitality a little and asked if I could hang out somewhere out of the way until then. (I wasn't really trying to put the screws to them, I just saw little point in walking straight home, turning around, and walking right back; but I was curious what the reaction would be.) They scanned the room for about 2 seconds to figure out where that would be, but were happy to set me up at the front and brought me water and a menu to look over, no "c'est impossible!" or "well I guess we can make an exception this time" attitude as one might well have found in many other places.

Right at 6 I was seated and the first question was, have you dined with us before? I said yes, and the whole question of the "FBI warning" preamble as discussed above was dropped without a word. (I did hear it delivered to another table later, it didn't seem that egregious, well within the typical pretension level of the modern restaurant.) So point 2, whatever the full-of-themselves level they were at some months ago, when a lot of the posts in this thread were made, they seem to have mellowed out since then and nothing about the service (which was perfectly good-- of course it should have been, considering that the place didn't start to fill until I was nearly done) suggested that TerraGusto is wound any tighter than any other popular restaurant.

And the food? Very solid. A mushroom sformato, an eggy custard topped with toasted cheese, was a bit much for one person but had a nice comfy feel. Tagliatelle with roasted walnut pesto, little cubes of pancetta and some bufala ricotta on top was dynamite, I feared the ricotta might serve as a flavor extinguisher but far from it, all in all confirming (not that there was much doubt) that the fresh pastas are the star here and they have as good a handle on them as any place in town. Olive oil for dipping the bread was ordinary, but the two green olives placed in it were excellent, the best olives I've had since my Spain trip.

I had thought TerraGusto overpriced at times in the past, I still think the secondi are (the price may be justified by the use of naturally-raised meat, still, I'm not there for a $40 steak), but the pastas, antipasti etc. are all fair value and so, I think, is the "Italian meal" prix fixe for large groups. All in all, I think the quirks/off-putting aspects mentioned above were anomalies, growing pains, or have been smoothed out over time, and I would not hesitate to recommend a return visit. I'd still call before tromping the family up there and setting myself up for that look, though.

Theo and his attitude have moved over to Armitage and a second location.

Passing but nothing special- you can do better and this board will point you in that direction.

For what it's worth, I had a really enjoyable meal at the Roscoe Village Terragusto location this past weekend. I made a 6:30 pm reservation for two for Friday after calling on Monday and showed up about five minutes late with no sign of attitude from the host or server.

I really enjoyed my meal of egg noodles with duck and my dining partner had the gnocchi which she deemed a bit too salty. She started with a salad which looked delicious, and the total damage was around $40. Overall, with the BYOB policy, I found it to be a decent value, and because I found the food to be good and the small space charming, I'll probably be back.

I had a nice meal at the Addison Terragusto location. My thoughts are:
1. Their strength is in the pastas first and foremost, and the appetizers, not the main dishes. If I went back, I'd happily order an appetizer and a pasta and call it a day. The desserts are good, but I usually don't get that far.
2. That said, our party of 4 had the fixed price meal, which is quite a bargain. It was about $38 per person ($35 plus an upcharge for one dish), for which you get any appetizer off the menu, any pasta, two main dishes to share and two desserts to share. It's way more food than we needed (we took a lot home), but we got to sample most of the menu and had a nice long dinner.
3. The only clunker was a whole fish, which just wasn't good. The other main dish, lamb ribs, was fine, but not special.
4. Service was very pleasant.

With the BYOB policy, we had a sumptous and good meal for about $60 per person, tax, tip and our own wine included.

The swiss chard sformato at Terragusto was one of the best things I've eaten all year. They managed to distill the essence of intense swiss chard flavor into a few powerful, light and creamy bites. Chilled fennel soup was similarly fantastic.

Everything else was OK. Pretty good pastas, though one was oversalted and another had rubbery mushrooms. Decent steak with fine roasted potatoes. Flavorless panna cotta with not-bad texture.

We arrived on time for our 6:15 reservation, and at 8:10 we were asked to finish our wine at the (not so pleasant)bar so that they could seat another party. Along the way, they had done their best to rush us out. Main course came maybe 3 minutes after the pastas were served.

Terragusto isn't my kind of place.

I have reservations for Terragusto next tuesday for my birthday, but am starting to re-think it based on the reviews here, I don't want to be rushed out, and want to make sure I pick the right place to celebrate. Anyone willing to fight for Terragusto? Other byob suggestions for a romantic birthday dinner with the SO?

jmprimus wrote:Other byob suggestions for a romantic birthday dinner with the SO?

Think about Think. Upscale, slightly Italian, creative food. Great romantic atmosphere.

Think
2235 N. Western Ave.
Chicago
(773) 394-053

jmprimus wrote:I have reservations for Terragusto next tuesday for my birthday, but am starting to re-think it based on the reviews here, I don't want to be rushed out, and want to make sure I pick the right place to celebrate. Anyone willing to fight for Terragusto? Other byob suggestions for a romantic birthday dinner with the SO?

If you read this full thread and others on LTH Forum, you'll see plenty of people willing to fight for Terragusto.

I have never been rushed. In fact, they usually tell me when I'm seated that they allocate something like two hours per table so that people can eat at a relaxed pace. Kennyz's experience is really surprising to me and I hope his treatment is a rare occurrence there. My experiences there have always been incredibly positive. In fact, one time half of my party was very late and we ended up taking up the table for far longer than we should have, yet the staff was incredibly understanding and accommodating. If you are concerned, why don't you call ahead and tell them your desire for a slow, leisurely meal?

Darren72 wrote:I have never been rushed. In fact, they usually tell me when I'm seated that they allocate something like two hours per table so that people can eat at a relaxed pace.

Though they didn't make any such announcement in my case, I'll note that it was nearly 2 full hours before they said anything to me about moving. So I suspect that my experience came about because I have different expectations than most people* (2 hours is not nearly enough time for me on a typical weekend evening with lots of wine), and it was a weekend. jmprimus - I suspect that if your pacing expectations are more in line with what many people consider normal, and you go on a Tuesday, you'll enjoy Terragusto.



*for this reason I rarely eat out on weekends, except at hole-in-the wall ethnic places that aren't too busy.

Other byob suggestions for a romantic birthday dinner with the SO?

I rank Terragusto behind Mado and Mixteco. Not sure that either constitutes as romantic; however, both are very good at what they aim to do.

rmtraut wrote:

Other byob suggestions for a romantic birthday dinner with the SO?

I rank Terragusto behind Mado and Mixteco. Not sure that either constitutes as romantic; however, both are very good at what they aim to do.

All three are among my favorite restaurants in the city (not just among BYOs). If you are into the type of food served at these, I think you'll be happy at any of them. I wouldn't call any of them romantic, though. In fact, all three are among the more loud restaurants I can think of.

Rick's Cafe is easily the most romantic of the semi-upscale byob places around town.

I haven't been in awhile, but I enjoyed my one dinner at Terragusto. I wouldn't really describe it as romantic though.

If you're looking for another BYO place, I would recommend Sweets & Savories.

Kennyz wrote:Rick's Cafe is easily the most romantic of the semi-upscale byob places around town.

I never heard of this place, but was intrigued to find out more. It appears that Rick's is now closed.

Darren - thanks for passing that on. Sad news: the food was pretty good, and it was a truly unique dining experience in a warm, welcoming setting.

Not BYOB, but I recall that people used to often describe Trattoria 10 as romantic. I've never been, and haven't heard much about it from anyone in a long time, though it used to be on a lot of people's short lists.
Anyone been there lately?

Lucia's on North Ave is BYOB, as is May Street Market M-W only.

The Open Letter to Tony Hu made me think about my recent experience at Terragusto. Not because I feel about Terragusto the way Jazzfood feels about LSC, but more the issue of how I escalate (on the rare occasion I feel the need to) problems at restaurants. I recently had a meal at Terragusto which caused me to escalate a food issue during the meal, then eventually write a letter to Terragusto afterwards, as I was unhappy with the response during the meal. LAZ's advice of requesting a specific action unfortunately came a bit to late for me (I wrote the letter about a week ago), though it does make me wonder if that would have elicited a response.

I had considered posting about my experience at Terragusto, but then decided to write the letter to them instead and see how (or if) they responded. Since it's been over a week and I've received no response, I decided that I'd post.

Given the meta topic of how to communicate with restaurant management, I'm going to post my letter in unedited form. I'd welcome input on how I could have handled the situation better - both during the meal and afterwards.

dansch wrote:Terragusto staff,

I wanted to let you know about my experience at the W. Addison location last night. It was my second time dining with you folks and both times my companion and I did the Italian family-style dinner. Overall our meal last night was great - our server was fantastic and most of the food was great (especially the pastas, where clearly you guys shine) with one major exception: the steak.

We were about 4 bites in to our pastas when the steak was delivered to our table and slid between our plates of pasta. Odd timing, especially given the large time gap between our antipasti and pasta courses, but whatever. We each took a bite of the steak and looked at each other - cold. I have a hard time sending back food, but the steak was simply room temperature - something that's not ok, especially with such a rich meat (the wagyu) where the fat basically starts to recongeal.

I got our server's attention and he quickly said "no problem" and whisked the plate away. Perfect response.

A few minutes later he brought the steak back out to our table - the same steak, rewarmed (likely in the oven).

The steak was indeed warmer, but rewarming a pre-sliced steak in the oven means that it's just got dry and tough. He said something to the effect of "they must have let it rest just a bit too long - you know, to let the juices redistribute".

So here's where we have our problem. As someone who cooks I fully understand the need to let animal-based proteins rest, but don't blame resting on serving me a room temp steak. Given the timing of our steak being delivered, had it been rested any less, it would have been served at the same exact time as our pastas. My guess is that this steak wasn't accidentally rested just a few seconds too long - it was fired too early (or the pasta too late) and the kitchen tried to hold it long enough to not deliver it at the same time as the pasta.

I'm sure your food costs on a wagyu cut aren't cheap, but when I'm paying a supplement over the normal cost of the dinner to order it, expecting a properly cooked steak isn't unreasonable. It's the kitchen's choice to pre-slice it, something clearly reduces the window between piping hot, but well-rested, steak being delivered to my table and ending up with what I got - room temp, recongealing steak.

Anyway, this was clearly more than would fit on the comment card, and being someone who almost never (maybe 3-4 times in my life) sends back food, I certainly wasn't about to interrupt my meal again to have a conversation about it.

It's unfortunate - it was an otherwise great meal. Simply firing another steak and delivering it in a timely fashion would have been the right thing to do.

-Dan

dansch wrote:Given the meta topic of how to communicate with restaurant management, I'm going to post my letter in unedited form. I'd welcome input on how I could have handled the situation better - both during the meal and afterwards.

My input is that you couldn't have handled it better. Both your in-person response and your letter sound note-perfect to me.

I suppose if you wanted specific recompense ("I'd like a free meal, a coupon, etc.") it might help to ask for that, but, as with you, it wouldn't be my inclination to do that. My inclination would be to voice the complaint, and see what the restaurant was willing to do in response. Simply put, my interest in taking the measure of the restaurant's character would outweigh my interest in a free meal, with the hope (and expectation) that the restaurant would prove its mettle. In the event that the restaurant proved lacking in character, that would be very valuable information for me to have, and it would negatively influence any future decision on my part to return there. It also might lead me to share the information about the restaurant's lack of character with others, as they might consider it valuable also.

I'm speaking in general terms, since it's always possible a response from Terragusto to you is already in the mail and just hasn't arrived yet.

dansch wrote:
We were about 4 bites in to our pastas when the steak was delivered to our table and slid between our plates of pasta. Odd timing, especially given the large time gap between our antipasti and pasta courses, but whatever. We each took a bite of the steak and looked at each other - cold. I have a hard time sending back food, but the steak was simply room temperature - something that's not ok, especially with such a rich meat (the wagyu) where the fat basically starts to recongeal.

Not that it excuses the steak coming to your table cold, but this at least explains the timing of the courses. Taken from Terragusto's web menu

PLEASE NOTE: in order to invoke the tradition of the “laden table” that is such a part of the mom & pop trattoria experience found in every Italian town, our kitchen times the preparation of your fish, poultry & meat selections to arrive at your table within 3-5 minutes after your pastas

Looking through this thread, what strikes me most is the mismatch of the restaurant owner's claim to want to reproduce the style of a trattoria in Italy and then with that insisting people finish up and clear out within two hours. I know nothing of the owner, but if he is an Italian, I would be shocked. From the standpoint of a business in the United States, I can certainly understand the 'philosophy' (business model) regarding table-turnover, but anyone who has spent any real time in Italy knows that few if any decent places rush customers out. That is what one expects from the tourist traps in Rome and Florence.

Being Italian and having spent a great deal of time in Italy with my cousins there and on trips for both business and pleasure to various parts of the country, I find this statement, which appears on their menu, really rather curious:

"PLEASE NOTE: in order to invoke the tradition of the “laden table” that is such a part of the mom & pop trattoria experience found in every Italian town, our kitchen times the preparation of your fish, poultry & meat selections to arrive at your table within 3-5 minutes after your pastas"

Italians take their cuisine seriously and with that goes a real respect for the food and for their guests who are to eat their food. Delivering a steak to the table a couple of minutes after the primo has been served is barbarous. I've never had that happen in Italy in any ristorante or trattoria or home, for that matter. And the thought of doing so, and with that a) leaving the meat to grow cold and thus not be at its best and b) giving the guests the feeling they need to step it up should make any practitioner of Italian culinary arts cringe in absolute horror.

In other words, for all the manneristic posturing by the people at Terragusto about their intending to recreate faithfully "the mom & pop trattoria experience found in every Italian town" and to "invite you to dine like a true italian," this restaurant clearly has a very un-Italian philosophy about how to serve its guests. And to transform a cultural notion into a misapplied rule in order to, for example, justify serving up a steak minutes after the primo has been served, that I find really a bit much -- and, needless to say, very un-Italian.

I have nothing against Terragusto and have noted that there are a number of people who think they serve good food; if they gave up the conceit of being 'authentically Italian' in the silly way they claim they are and instead just focussed on serving guests well along with preparing good food and turning tables, I might consider going there. But, being Italian, if I go out for a nice meal with friends or family, I don't want to be looking at my watch to see when our time is up.

Antonius

Thank you, Antonius. In judging restaurants, I almost always consider the food paramount; but Terragusto is so ridiculously full of itself that I dislike the place despite thinking that they make some of the best pasta around. Terragusto's notion of the Italian "laden table" is analogous to the Burger King "Steakhouse Burger".

My reaction was much along the lines of Antonius'.

I've been very curious about Terragusto, and still hope to try the place when on one of our visits. And reading through all of the complaints about their "attitude," I've tried to consider the possibility that they're simply undertaking the daunting task of evoking a dining culture unfamiliar to most of their patrons, which would explain if not always excuse some of the structural heavy-handedness. But when they talk about the Italian tradition of secondi hitting the table minutes after the primi, I'd really like to know in what part of Italy they feel this tradition originates, because I've certainly never seen it.

wow. true arrogance.

it's one thing to treat people badly--that's always plausibly deniable and it's possible to dismiss complaints without knowing both sides.

but to brazenly lie on the website and think that no one reading will know enough about dining in Italy to recognize the lie? that's arrogant to the point of being insane. or stupid.

i lived in Italy for a year and this whole "bring the secondi five minutes after the pasta is served" thing is just about the exact opposite of how it's done in Italy.

i've never been to Terragusto, but reading all this in one shot makes me sad. people that open restaurants are supposed to want to please their clientele. lying to them about why you're rushing the food to the table runs so counter to the concept of hospitality that it gives the whole industry a bad name.

on a brighter note, reading this thread from the vantage point of being a restaurant owner has been informative and has given me a good dose of perspective. although nothing here is new, it's just served to underscore the fact that the most important part of running a restaurant is that the people running it must have the desire to treat customers well and with respect, and, ultimately, to make them happy.

as a restaurateur, if you're not doing that, you're failing. even if your food is mind-blowing and your bank account is bulging.

Kennyz wrote:Terragusto's notion of the Italian "laden table" is analogous to the Burger King "Steakhouse Burger".

Dmnkly wrote:... But when they talk about the Italian tradition of secondi hitting the table minutes after the primi, I'd really like to know in what part of Italy they feel this tradition originates, because I've certainly never seen it.

It's nonsense. In Italy, at a pleasant place, it's no big deal if you want to order the secondo after finishing the primo... This claim of it being the real Italian way to have the two courses present on the table at the same time, the meat or fish chillin' as you pound down in haste the finely crafted pasta tirata e tagliata da mano, is simply bizarre... Again, it seems to me to be a fiction to support a desire to make people feel better about having their dining time managed in a way maximally favourable to the restaurateur...

Again, I can sympathise with the demands of the business here in the US but I think it bad form to invoke an alleged cultural norm that is, in fact, not real...

A me pare 'na strunzata...

A

There's actually a simple solution for all of this.

Only order the primi at Terragusto. They're by far the better (not to mention better value) part.

elakin wrote:as a restaurateur, if you're not doing that, you're failing. even if your food is mind-blowing and your bank account is bulging.

Well said. There is much more to a great meal than great food.

A