Service issue

I saw this on craigslist today and I'm wondering how people who read this forum feel about what happened. I have a definite opinion, but I'd like to see how others feel.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/rnr/714316336.html

Longtime lurker, second-time poster here. I agree with the server that the patron should have asked to speak to a manager. I used to be a hostess at an extremely busy brunch spot in Lakeview and know that to be the best course of action, if the irate patron has a bit of common sense.

The manager will typically offer compensation, a move to a different table with a different server, or at the very least be able to apologize even if the patron is beyond consolation.

I think everyone should work in the service industry at some point; it's work most people don't understand.

Unless there's another side to the story than the poster presented, it sounds like management overreacted after the fact when it couldn't help. They should have sent the offended patrons a GC for a free meai if they wished to give the place a second chance and then used the incident as a learning tool for a staff meeting. How did it happen? Simple misunderstanding as to whose table it was? Did the folks wander in and just seat themselves (as sometimes happens) so that no one realized they were uncared for? Unless management can prove that some 'bad' server was really being lazy or irresponsible, it sounds like their system needs tweaking and they're punishing the staff instead of solving the problem.

It's so hard to say. Who knows?

Maybe it was a simple, unusual missed assignment by a great staff and the patrons never made a peep until storming out. Maybe they tried for 20 minutes to flag somebody down, but no one even bothered to glance in their direction (I've been there -- what do you do, stand up and physically intercept a server? That shouldn't be necessary, no matter the circumstances.). Maybe this has been a frequent problem at the restaurant in question and for management, it was the last straw. Could have been a lot of things.

Kudos to that Manager.

I have to disagree with the general responses on this topic. The manager is clearly a man or woman that knows whether you're serving a hot dog or a porterhouse, service is the foundation of any food establishment. I assure you that his or her actions were a more effective solution to the problem than a friendly "what went wrong here" in the next staff meeting. I can't imagine that the party sat for 20 minutes without attempting to get someone's attention. And at a certain point, it's difficult to enjoy the rest of your meal when you suspect you're being ignored, possibly even intentionally. A freebie at this point wouldn't improve my evening nor encourage me to come another time. No matter how busy a server is, they can take two seconds to make eye contact and reassure waiting customers...

Again, kudos to that Manager.

~GS

A common problem in a busy restaurant -- I think it's just common sense to flag someone else -- even if you have to physically get up and do it. Now...if you do that and you still get neglected...then that's a different story.

However...there's a great story in my family lore about service. When my mom was in her teens, my grandmother and aunt used to take her to NY every fall for a clothes buying spree (ah..the 50's!) before her fall term. They'd go shopping, go to museums, see plays and musicals (such great programs we have) and the ballet. They'd also go and eat at places like 21 and the Cub Room, etc. Very 1953.

At any rate, one year they went to the famous Mama Leone's for italian food (which my mother said still had the very best lasagna she's ever tasted) and it was a crazy dining scene -- completely filled up to the brim with waiters running here and there -- a veritable Harmonia Gardens scene. And in the middle of all of it was a man(according to my mom, a very slight, short man who looked as if excitement of any kind might give him palpitations) at a table who couldn't get, for the life of him, a waiter's attention. He was obviously looking for his check and the trio of my female progenitors found watching him quite entertaining. After what she figured was almost a half hour, the man finally hit himself on the chest several times in Tarzan mode, stood, stepped ON the table and put two fingers in his mouth and whistled the loudest whistle she'd ever heard. So piercing it hurt! The crowd came completely silent and every waiter in the house came running at a top clip. He very calmly asked for the check and they got it for him, tout suite! He patted down his hair, adjusted his suit, got out his wallet and paid the check -- all in complete silence.

Now...it's been many years since this happened so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little exaggeration on this tale -- but it is, indeed true. Unless my mom is a big fat liar.

Greasy Spoon wrote:
Again, kudos to that Manager.

~GS

If they were the manager on duty they should have gotten twice the punishment of the service staff. If they were so oblivious to the situation they weren't doing their job either.

Flip

On the one hand, I (if it were me) would have gone up to the front of the house and called the problem to someone's attention after several minutes of being ignored.

On the other hand, I don't blame the people in this story for not doing it. It's not their job to track down service. It's their job to receive service.

I join those who are encouraged that the manager of this restaurant took strong punitive action to make sure it doesn't happen again. It pleasantly surprises me. Less surprising to me (sadly) would be the manager telling the customers not to let the door hit them in their collective asses on their way out. My supposition would be that any manager who could let such a service problem happen in the first place would be a manager who didn't care about his customers. Nice to be wrong about that.

Well, hypothetically, if this happened to me, I might be pissed off and possibly (depending on the variables of hunger, fatigue, general annoyance that day, and an algorithm based the relationship these variables have on the time it would take me to get to a computer) might leave and write a nasty review and/or email. Of course, hypothetically, if I were the manager, especially depending on the variables of how difficult it is to hire and train new staff, I might or might not fire or dock anyone for a single infraction - and, hypothetically, if I were a server, depending on how slammed I was, I'd probably make darn sure that somebody I seated in the middle of the restaurant would be notified of how long they would be expected to wait, or wait on them myself.

But, honestly, we don't know anything at all about the reality of this situation, which makes it odd to comment at all.

and later that week, a gas explosion leveled the restaurant, but the fired server was spared !

wait ... that was a Seinfeld episode ...

Mhays wrote:Well, hypothetically, if this happened to me, I might be pissed off and possibly (depending on the variables of hunger, fatigue, general annoyance that day, and an algorithm based the relationship these variables have on the time it would take me to get to a computer) might leave and write a nasty review and/or email. Of course, hypothetically, if I were the manager, especially depending on the variables of how difficult it is to hire and train new staff, I might or might not fire or dock anyone for a single infraction - and, hypothetically, if I were a server, depending on how slammed I was, I'd probably make darn sure that somebody I seated in the middle of the restaurant would be notified of how long they would be expected to wait, or wait on them myself.

But, honestly, we don't know anything at all about the reality of this situation, which makes it odd to comment at all.

It's true we don't know more than what the Craiglist post contains, but (hypothesizing, for the sake of discussion, that everything in it is scrupulously accurate) I feel our reactions to it make for an interesting exercise. A feeling confirmed in me by your post!

"Ask to speak to a manager" does sound nice, but I find it's a pain and things don't usually go uphill that much as a result. They are having problems to begin with. If I haven't been acknowledged after a certain time period, it's easier just to cut my losses and walk. I don't leave in a huff or yell at anyone; I just leave. I have complained to a restaurant once by email, because it happened while a manager type was standing around swinging his arms and talking about baseball with another employee. The place wasn't crowded either. The owner wrote back and wanted to know who the server was; I replied that it wasn't her fault.

I do tend to doubt that it's entirely the server's fault when stuff like this happens. They probably need to hire more staff or train them better of something. Being an efficient server does not come naturally to most people

I think that waiting 20 minutes is inexcusable...However there is a severe time vortex that happens for people while dining. As a patron, 5 minutes can be taken as 20 very easily, and as a server 30 minutes is easily described as 15 or 20. Whose to say what side this story falls on, but I guess we are talking principal here. I have always worked under the idea that there is never an excuse for failed service, in a sense that the guest should/will never understand or care enough to tolerate an excuse. True, most diners on this board will and can understand service lacking due to being in "the weeds" but what is the percentage dining population savvy enough to understand that on a sunday morning brunch in lincoln park? (I personally feel that you are asking for it in that situation, anyway) Either way, I would have terminated the employee whose section it was, not because of the negligence of the table, but rather because they did not ask for assistance by a teammate or management. Someone would have a free moment to get drinks, excuse the business, etc. I think it is a fitting punishment, definitely proves a point, and that should never be an issue for the team again.

1) Yelling on your way out is sort of jerky; there are a lot of reasonable steps short of that which one might take. As a patron, you shouldn't be obligated to take any of them, but as a human, seems like you ought to give other humans one chance to make it right, at least.

2) Complaining about customers on Craig's List is even more jerky, though. You guys blew it, management kind of overdid the punishment, perhaps, but if you like those kinds of crowds, you damn well better know how to handle them.

3) Only suckers eat Sunday brunch, and they deserve whatever they get.

Mitch Cumstein wrote:I think that waiting 20 minutes is inexcusable...However there is a severe time vortex that happens for people while dining. As a patron, 5 minutes can be taken as 20 very easily, and as a server 30 minutes is easily described as 15 or 20. Whose to say what side this story falls on, but I guess we are talking principal here.

I propose the installation of chess clocks on every restaurant table. Customer sits down - BANG! It is waitstaff's turn. Waitstaff drops of bread - BANG! It is customer's turn. Order taken - BANG!. And so on until the bill is paid and coats and hats are put back on. A large LED display visible to the whole room could avoid many arguments.

I was in the industry many years ago...our kitchen staff were fond of saying "abierto su ojos" (open your eyes) to the wait staff...I gotta say, this seems like another apt application of said phrase.

Good customer service, the kind delivered by a team, would be reflected in ANY server noticing a sitting table full of people still clutching menus for any substantial period of time. Said server might reasonably be expected to stop at the table and inquire politely "have you been waited on yet?"

At which point, the customers might just respond "no but we're ready to order" then the true team member either a) takes the order and passes it along to the waitron assigned to the table or b) completes the service him/herself.

I can't buy the notion that it is the customer's responsibility to bring their status to a waiter's attention.

Mike G wrote:3) Only suckers eat Sunday brunch, and they deserve whatever they get.

Ha! Hear hear.

~GS

Greasy Spoon wrote:

Mike G wrote:3) Only suckers eat Sunday brunch, and they deserve whatever they get.

Ha! Hear hear.

Maybe so--in which case, restaurants shouldn't open for business then. (They should never be open for business any time that they can't adequately serve the customers who are their reason for existence.)

Well, many fine restaurants do wisely choose to be closed at brunch. But despite the fact that no one has ever actually enjoyed the food at any brunch in history-- save perhaps the tiny handful who actually fetishize scrambled eggs with a slight aftertaste of Sterno-- there exists a certain number of people who insist on going out for this ill-considered meal, especially at holidays when it will be at its very worst. Can we really blame the hotels and restaurants who find the temptation of serving this market irresistible?

I actually had a similar service issue two nights ago at a local restaurant, but it was compounded by a lousy waitress. The owner was not there, he is usually taking care to make sure everything is running smoothly.

My husband and I were seated and given menus. Two other tables were seated and given menus, then the orders were taken from the two other tables. Nobody came up to us and offered to take our orders, get us drinks, nothing. At one point, before the other two tables had their orders taken, the hostess (who seemed completely out of it) told us our server would be with us shortly. I decided not to wait and see how long it would take before someone noticed that we had been sitting there for at least ten minutes (and the restaurant was not full). I finally went to the front of the house and told the woman in charge that we had been sitting for some time and nobody was waiting on us. She said she would correct the situation and sent a waitress over immediately. Our orders were taken, they offered us a free appetizer (which we did not want, so we have a coupon for it) and drinks were delivered to the table. The waitress asked a little later if I wanted a refill on my iced tea. After taking my glass, she promptly went over to another table (she was not waiting on that particular table) and proceeded to have a long conversation with her friends who were sitting there. Occasionally she would glance back at our table. I was rather thirsty and getting a little testy because she had disappeared with my glass and was obviously in no hurry to refill it. She stood there for a good five minutes, gabbing away. After we ate, we asked for the bill. The bill was dropped off and then the waitress disappeared. She never came back to the table to retrieve the bill and our credit card. Finally, having waited way too long, we went up to the front of the house and paid ourselves. I was not in a very happy mood by the time we left the restaurant.

So, do I tell the owner (who I consider to be a friend) what happened, or do I just think twice about going there again?

Suzy

sdritz wrote:So, do I tell the owner (who I consider to be a friend) what happened, or do I just think twice about going there again?

I think the former, and especially because the owner is a friend. (If you received bad service from this waitress, very likely other customers have, too, and what kind of friend would you be if you let his restaurant go down in flames because of a bad apple? )

I always speak up about bad service (and I mean BAD service, not service that's maybe on the slow side when a restaurant is crowded, or honest mistakes that are corrected). If nobody ever speaks up, nobody ever knows. People may think they're giving that feedback by not tipping, but the only one who knows that is the server (who likely blames you for being cheap, rather than feeling bad about being surly/lazy/whatever the case may be). And in cases where tips are pooled, it seems that one person giving bad service means everyone suffers.

Ditto, sweetsalty and riddlemay. Having worked in the food service industry (albeit not specifically as a server, but, yes, as a manager) there are some things I have no patience for and which shouldn't be tolerated: ignoring your customer to pursue leisure-type activity like chatting with your friends is something that probably never happens when the manager is looking, but something that needs to be addressed. If you don't speak up, the manager will probably never know...and, think about it, if you didn't know the manager, would you be likely to return?

That being said, I recall an opposite experience: we ate at Cafe Salamera (RIP) just before it closed, and had a delightful meal that took probably two hours start to finish - ridiculous for a couple sandwiches, yes. Norka was out of the country, and her family was struggling to make the food, run the cash register, and get drinks to everyone - and it was clear that they were quite new and probably not fully trained to do all of it. While it wasn't the best of circumstances, (though I'd have endured outright abuse to get a jibarito and Norky's Porky) it was clearly not intentional. While we happily consumed our savory envelopes of heaven, several of the other patrons were quite upset and openly rude about the wait time.

I don't believe that the customer is always right: certainly, some of the things I've experienced while serving customers were outright wrong. It is, however, in the best interest of a business to make sure your customers are as satisfied as it is possible to make them, and managing staff is probably the most important and most challenging part of this equation.

I think complaining to the hostess was dumb. The hostess greets and seats; it's not her fault they didn't get served. I would have tried to flag somebody down. If that didn't work, I would have asked the hostess to page the manager or send a server over, but politely. I think the manager made a good choice about punishing everyone - except the hostess should have been spared.

This place sounds like Yoshi's Cafe. We went there once, had reservations, but waited for an hour before we were seated.
Or maybe it's Wild Onion? There was NOBODY in there when we went, and the hostess was friendly when she seated us. But no one came by to get our drink order, give us a menu, NOTHING. The only person who came by was the busboy with water. We were sitting in a very prominent place, so we just walked out after 20 minutes. Flagging somebody down was unnecessary. If you can't tell the difference between an empty restaurant and one with people in it, you're in trouble. Maybe that's why they closed.

jaybo wrote:I saw this on craigslist today and I'm wondering how people who read this forum feel about what happened. I have a definite opinion, but I'd like to see how others feel.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/rnr/714316336.html

Jaybo,

What is your opinion?

Regards,

Pie Lady wrote:This place sounds like Yoshi's Cafe. We went there once, had reservations, but waited for an hour before we were seated.

Whoa. I guess it's a natural tendency to leap to the defense of a place where one has had only excellent experiences. In any case, it's a tendency I'm finding unable to fight. In thirty years of going to Yoshi's I've never had anything like that happen. Not to dispute for one second that it happened to you, and that it was completely unacceptable.

Cathy2 wrote:Jaybo,

What is your opinion?

Regards,

I'm just like the patron in the post that got stiffed. I'll make an attempt to get served ("Can we have some menus?" "Water, please?"), but if I'm ignored after that, I'll sit there and seethe. My anger will grow exponentially. The smoke coming out of my ears will be evident to all. I won't cause a scene unless it comes down to my having to leave. Then I'll explode just like the patron did.

I don't like to speak to a manager or person "in charge". If it's a small place, the waitstaff are more than likely close friends or family members, so I find it's a waste of time. If it's a larger place like the restaurant in the post, it's been my experience that I get a completely condescending attitude which only serves to fuel my rage.

I love that the patron fired off an angry e-mail to the owner/boss. I've been tempted to do it several times, but I usually just say to myself, "Well, I'm never going there again." Once I walk out of that particular restaurant, I have no interest in ever going back, so I don't feel the need to inform the owner about the awful service (or lack thereof). Next time, I'll follow the patron's lead and do the same.

I love the owner's decisive reaction. Bravo! The server deemed to blame directly for the incident was fired, and the supervisor was suspended. I would've made sure that the supervisor knew that if something like this happened again, they'd be fired as well. I'm much more inclined to go to a place where such matters are taken seriously. Is it an overreaction? Well, is a similar incident likely to happen anytime soon? I don't think so.

I don't know if the patron was aiming for a free meal or a discount or not. I know if I sent that e-mail, it would be to blow off some steam and let the owner know that he has a problem. The old adage applies - a person will tell a few people if he had a great time, but if he had a lousy time, then he'll tell everybody.

As far as the staff's feelings go, too bad. It's their responsibility to take care of their customers. I don't care how busy they are, to totally ignore a table for any extended amount of time is inexcusable. For a restaurant of that apparent size, someone should be monitoring the situation at all times. It's always easier to replace waitstaff than FOH.

After a recent experience involving a nasty server who

1. served me the incorrect entree;

2. argued with me about it;

3. was then heard loudly declaiming my idiocy to the restaurant staff;

4. and finally, having the correct meal served to me (by another server) over half an hour later, and ice-cold,

I have to say, I agree with the decisive reaction of management. This incident happened at a restaurant we used to frequent when we lived close by, and we'd like to return at some point; however, if we were to walk in one evening and see that server still employed there, we would have no choice but to walk out.

As much as I enjoy dining at a restaurant whose owners and managers understand the care and feeding of the professional server who anticipates my needs and works hard to make the dining experience as enjoyable as possible, I would be perfectly happy to forgo the interaction with the server so that I can focus entirely on my dining companions and the food - place my order when I'm ready and leave when I'm ready without having to flag down a server who seems to have developed the inability to notice wild gesticulations in their peripheral vision.

I've happily made the transition to self-service gas, airline/hotel/rental car kiosks, online shopping, etc. Give me a touch-screen which displays the menu items, specials, substitution options, total cost, scans my credit card, etc. Put buttons on it for "more water", "more bread", "get me a human", etc.

Have I gone too far?

Bill/SFNM

Your wish is my command...but you have to move to Nuremberg.